Was Keith Moon a good drummer?

[Anthemic]

From my seat, as a drummer for a pretty long time...ok almost all of my life... I think he's probably one of the first rock drummers to take things to a different level... I'm not going to say whether he was good or bad, he was the RIGHT drummer for The Who, and he did what was needed for the songs. When you listen back to some of their stuff, and hear what he played, and how he played it, you knew that he was the right guy for them, no questions..... How he would have played for a different band....who knows? But he took that old "four on the floor" attitude, and went up a few notches. I think he opened the door for a lot of guys (Peart included) to not be afraid to experiment, and take things to another level.

 

"Technically" now... I would say that most people that look at drumming as an "art" would look at his style and say he was sloppy, unruly, and just not the best technician there was sitting behind a drum kit....but it didn't matter with The Who.

 

Why didn't it matter with The Who?

 

Their music wasn't cut and dry...squared off...and perfect...it had a sloppy quality to it that made them The Who! If you go see them now, they're more like a tribute act than anything else...some of the old recordings of things I've heard were so off the charts unruly, that you got into them more than the bands that played "like the record".

 

I couldn't bear to see them now. I'd rather remember them as they once were and when I saw them in 1974.

Zak Starkey is their drummer now and he really does Uncle Keith proud behind the kit.

 

Keith was Zak's Godfather and a very close friend to Ringo.

 

zak starkey is incredibly good, we saw him with them on the quadrophenia tour a few years ago.

[78jazz]

Kenny Jones

Kenney Jones kicked ass in the Small Faces and Faces. And Pete liked him in the Who!

 

I realize I am in a large minority here, but I think some of the material on Face Dances benefited from a streamlined approach to the drums.

[theredtamasrule]

Kenny Jones

Kenney Jones kicked ass in the Small Faces and Faces. And Pete liked him in the Who!

 

I realize I am in a large minority here, but I think some of the material on Face Dances benefited from a streamlined approach to the drums.

 

You're right. Pete's later material was much more streamlined and structured and really had to have a more focused approach from the drums.

[Digital Dad]

I thought a good drummer was essential to a band, but I guess not.

 

What musician makes up for the drummer's inadequacies? The bass player?

 

Good bands will have top notch rhythm sections (bass & drums)...they lay the foundation and drive the band forward. The Who had two immensely talented members of the rhythm section: Entwhistle and Moon, both were very busy players but very different personalities. Moon was uncontrolled chaos and self-destruction, Ent was more restrained but in the end equally self destructive...as drugs eventually killed both.

 

As to whether or not Moon was a great drummer will depend on who you ask. Pete T has talked about being irritated by Moon because Moon wouldn't just play a beat, he was a wash of notes that sounded somewhat random. Rock drummers tend to be in awe of Moon because he was such a departure from what rock drums were and he pointed toward what they could be. For me he's ok, where he plays certain notes tends to irritate the piss out of me as they sometimes don't jive with what anyone else is doing. Chaotic, naturally brilliant but could have used some restraint.

 

Very interesting to read all this, since I know what I like in music but I don't always know what makes it all work. When you talk about Entwhistle and Moon or Cliff Burton and that annoying Lars it then makes sense what you read about when Neil was auditioning for Rush- how they had him play with Geddy because they had to be sure the two could work together to carry the rhythm section . .

 

Good thread, Lorraine! :)

 

Yes, if Ged and Cornelius did not connect as a rhythm section then nothing else would have mattered. Now, those two are exceptional in that as a trio they had to do ALOT more than just lay down the pulse of the song, they had to do that AND fill in space...and generally kick ass.

 

I never knew until today that the drums and bass are the rhythm section.

 

I often try to focus in on the bass player in conjunction with the drummer to try and hear how the bass player supports the drummer. Sometimes it is difficult to hear how it's done; other times, it is easy.

 

Keyboards are too. And if there is a guitar player he often fills that role as well. Think Phil Upchurch playing in George Bensons band.

[geezer]

World has seen drummers better than Keith Moon but he was a STORM so he perfectly fitted with the rest of the band.

 

[RUSHHEAD666]

Kenny Jones

Kenney Jones kicked ass in the Small Faces and Faces. And Pete liked him in the Who!

 

I realize I am in a large minority here, but I think some of the material on Face Dances benefited from a streamlined approach to the drums.

 

Ok. True. I love the record. I get it.

I remember when I was a kid I played my drums along to "Face Dances." I loved playing the simple fills on "You Better."

[RUSHHEAD666]

World has seen drummers better than Keith Moon but he was a STORM so he perfectly fitted with the rest of the band.

 

Keith Moon was the STORM with a heart filled with sunshine.

 

I can't believe he lit that fukking cherry bomb during that live interview and blew out Pete's ear drum. No wonder he wouldn't interview for that book.

[goose]

I am Uncle Earlnie.

 

"Fiddle about, fiddle about."

Do you think it's alright?

 

 

Signed,

 

Cousin Allen

[RUSHHEAD666]

I am Uncle Earlnie.

 

"Fiddle about, fiddle about."

Do you think it's alright?

 

 

Signed,

 

Cousin Allen

 

Ha!

 

"Yes I think it's alright, yes I think it's alright........................"

 

Lustfully Yours,

 

Oliver Reed

[78jazz]

World has seen drummers better than Keith Moon but he was a STORM so he perfectly fitted with the rest of the band.

 

Keith Moon was the STORM with a heart filled with sunshine.

 

I can't believe he lit that fukking cherry bomb during that live interview and blew out Pete's ear drum. No wonder he wouldn't interview for that book.

 

I would wager that the reasons for interview refusal were a lot heavier than that.

[Babycat]

Absolute energy!

[Babycat]

World has seen drummers better than Keith Moon but he was a STORM so he perfectly fitted with the rest of the band.

 

Keith Moon was the STORM with a heart filled with sunshine.

 

I can't believe he lit that fukking cherry bomb during that live interview and blew out Pete's ear drum. No wonder he wouldn't interview for that book.

 

He actually did that?! :o

[geezer]

World has seen drummers better than Keith Moon but he was a STORM so he perfectly fitted with the rest of the band.

 

Keith Moon was the STORM with a heart filled with sunshine.

 

I can't believe he lit that fukking cherry bomb during that live interview and blew out Pete's ear drum. No wonder he wouldn't interview for that book.

 

He actually did that?! :o

 

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-who-spark-an-explosion-on-national-television

 

You can watch it in "The Kids Are Alright" ("Barbara Ann" with Moonie on vocals remains the highlight of the movie for me)

[Lorraine]

World has seen drummers better than Keith Moon but he was a STORM so he perfectly fitted with the rest of the band.

 

Keith Moon was the STORM with a heart filled with sunshine.

 

I can't believe he lit that fukking cherry bomb during that live interview and blew out Pete's ear drum. No wonder he wouldn't interview for that book.

 

He actually did that?! :o

 

I would like to know too. :codger:

[geezer]

World has seen drummers better than Keith Moon but he was a STORM so he perfectly fitted with the rest of the band.

 

Keith Moon was the STORM with a heart filled with sunshine.

 

I can't believe he lit that fukking cherry bomb during that live interview and blew out Pete's ear drum. No wonder he wouldn't interview for that book.

 

He actually did that?! :o

 

I would like to know too. :codger:

 

See my previous post and its link

[theredtamasrule]

I thought a good drummer was essential to a band, but I guess not.

 

What musician makes up for the drummer's inadequacies? The bass player?

 

Good bands will have top notch rhythm sections (bass & drums)...they lay the foundation and drive the band forward. The Who had two immensely talented members of the rhythm section: Entwhistle and Moon, both were very busy players but very different personalities. Moon was uncontrolled chaos and self-destruction, Ent was more restrained but in the end equally self destructive...as drugs eventually killed both.

 

As to whether or not Moon was a great drummer will depend on who you ask. Pete T has talked about being irritated by Moon because Moon wouldn't just play a beat, he was a wash of notes that sounded somewhat random. Rock drummers tend to be in awe of Moon because he was such a departure from what rock drums were and he pointed toward what they could be. For me he's ok, where he plays certain notes tends to irritate the piss out of me as they sometimes don't jive with what anyone else is doing. Chaotic, naturally brilliant but could have used some restraint.

 

Very interesting to read all this, since I know what I like in music but I don't always know what makes it all work. When you talk about Entwhistle and Moon or Cliff Burton and that annoying Lars it then makes sense what you read about when Neil was auditioning for Rush- how they had him play with Geddy because they had to be sure the two could work together to carry the rhythm section . .

 

Good thread, Lorraine! :)

 

Yes, if Ged and Cornelius did not connect as a rhythm section then nothing else would have mattered. Now, those two are exceptional in that as a trio they had to do ALOT more than just lay down the pulse of the song, they had to do that AND fill in space...and generally kick ass.

 

I never knew until today that the drums and bass are the rhythm section.

 

I often try to focus in on the bass player in conjunction with the drummer to try and hear how the bass player supports the drummer. Sometimes it is difficult to hear how it's done; other times, it is easy.

 

Keyboards are too. And if there is a guitar player he often fills that role as well. Think Phil Upchurch playing in George Bensons band.

 

Especially in a jazz setting keys (more traditionally just piano) are included in the rhythm section because the piano is considered by some to be a percussion instrument because those little hammers hitting the strings.

 

Also in early jazz guitar players were rhythm only and a big part of the pulse of the tune....think Charlie Christian with Benny Goodman Orchestra.

[Lorraine]

I can understand keyboards, but I can't hear how the bass backs up the drummer. Sometimes I can, but most times I can't.

[Lorraine]

World has seen drummers better than Keith Moon but he was a STORM so he perfectly fitted with the rest of the band.

 

Keith Moon was the STORM with a heart filled with sunshine.

 

I can't believe he lit that fukking cherry bomb during that live interview and blew out Pete's ear drum. No wonder he wouldn't interview for that book.

 

He actually did that?! :o

 

http://www.history.c...onal-television

 

You can watch it in "The Kids Are Alright" ("Barbara Ann" with Moonie on vocals remains the highlight of the movie for me)

 

I can't watch anything, and my internet speed has slowed down to a creeping creep today. It takes forever for anything to load.

[ReRushed]

I can understand keyboards, but I can't hear how the bass backs up the drummer. Sometimes I can, but most times I can't.

The bass and drums are the foundation for the song providing the timing, groove and rhythm. Think of a song like "Another One Bites the Dust" and how the bass and drums interlock. As for the Who, I think "The Real Me" is a good example of how Entwistle and Moon accomplished providing a foundation.

[Blue J]

Seriously, is Lars Ulrich a bad drummer or is he just not great?

 

To paraphrase Cornelius: Ulrich is a guy who hits things with sticks and is lucky enough to be in a band that made tons of money. IMO he can play a beat but is not a great drummer.

 

Cornelius?

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9LPoCjFeUns/TyoJo4hhMOI/AAAAAAAAEIE/_pQIJkpiNY8/s1600/don_cornelius.jpg

 

[Blue J]

I can understand keyboards, but I can't hear how the bass backs up the drummer. Sometimes I can, but most times I can't.

The bass and drums are the foundation for the song providing the timing, groove and rhythm. Think of a song like "Another One Bites the Dust" and how the bass and drums interlock. As for the Who, I think "The Real Me" is a good example of how Entwistle and Moon accomplished providing a foundation.

 

Yes- the bass and the drums together are what are referred to as the 'rhythm section'. They work in tandem unlike any other two instruments in a band.

[Lorraine]

I can understand keyboards, but I can't hear how the bass backs up the drummer. Sometimes I can, but most times I can't.

The bass and drums are the foundation for the song providing the timing, groove and rhythm. Think of a song like "Another One Bites the Dust" and how the bass and drums interlock. As for the Who, I think "The Real Me" is a good example of how Entwistle and Moon accomplished providing a foundation.

Oh, thank you! I love examples so I can go listen.

 

I don't have the Queen cd, but you chose a Queen song that I used to love, and it was the only Queen album I owned.

 

I'll go listen to The Real Me, but when I hear it in my head right now, all I can hear are the horns.

[Lorraine]

To my ears, there seems to be no musical collaboration between the two instruments in the song.

 

But I do hear a back and forth between the bass and the guitar.

 

Edit: This is a difficult assignment because it is easy for my ears to get distracted. On another listen, I do hear what you are talking about.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Lorraine

[ReRushed]

To my ears, there seems to be no musical collaboration between the two instruments in the song.

 

But I do hear a back and forth between the bass and the guitar.

I assume your referring to "The Real Me".

 

The bass and drums are the foundation of the song. Imagine just the drums without the bass and vice versa. Without both instruments the groove is gone.

Edited February 10, 2016 by ReRushed

[Lorraine]

To my ears, there seems to be no musical collaboration between the two instruments in the song.

 

But I do hear a back and forth between the bass and the guitar.

I assume your referring to "The Real Me".

 

The bass and drums are the foundation of the song. Imagine the just the drums without the bass and vice versa. Without both instruments the groove is gone.

 

Yes - The Real Me. My albums are long gone, I have only a handful of cds, and no way of listening with dialup. So I can't hear Another One Bites The Dust.

 

Now that you put it that way - "Without both instruments the groove is gone." - it makes complete sense.