Vapor Trails vs. Snakes & Arrows

[CrossedSignals]

A constant theme of my day-to-day TRF experience is the thunderous clash of VT and S&A fans charging into battle with barbed tongue. So, in the spirit of competition... I'm curious. Who you fighting for?

 

I know what team I'm on.

 

[canadianice]

I like them both equally.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 3 2012, 01:20 PM)

I know what team I'm on.

Yeah...the WRONG one.

[CrossedSignals]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ May 3 2012, 01:35 PM)

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 3 2012, 01:20 PM) I know what team I'm on. Yeah...the WRONG one. Avast, ye scurvy scallywag!

[NYM86]

No disrespect to Snakes & Arrows, which is an extremely solid album, but Vapor Trails is the clear preference for me. I have a much stronger emotional connection with VT, due to the band's circumstances at the time and how those feelings were reflected in the music. It feels like a real grassroots effort compared to other Rush albums, which is kind of neat. Plus, when it rocks, it really rocks. Freeze is such a hard-hitting tune.

[GeddyRulz]

I used to be WAY over in the Vapor Trails camp, but that album's value has lessened to me over the years and the previously hated Snakes & Arrows has risen a bit in my estimation.

 

Today, I'll still give Vapor Trails the nod, but now only "slightly."

 

"Far Cry" is the best song from either album, which gives strength to the S&A side, but Vapor Trails rocks more consistently throughout.

 

 

 

 

[Presto-digitation]

S&A by a slim margin, just musically speaking. The recording/mixing quality adds to the divide, however. Either way, Snakes & Arrows.

[Presto-digitation]

VT has the VASTLY better album cover, however.

[ReflectedLight]

it was just a matter of time until these two met up.

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

By Rush standards, they're both weak but for opposite reasons. Vapor Trails has the obvious sound problems and is too heavy with a few too many throw aways

 

Snakes is too lightweight with a few too many throwaways

 

I actually burned a CD and combined my favorites from the 2...

 

Far Cry

Malignant Nacisissm

Ghost Rider

The Way the Wind Blows

Earthshine

The Main Money Business

Vapor Trail

Workin' Them Angels

One Little Victory

 

The rest of the songs don't do much for me, although Secret Touch may have some potential with a remix

Edited May 3, 2012 by LeaveMyThingAlone

[CrossedSignals]

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ May 3 2012, 02:48 PM)

I actually burned a CD and combined my favorites from the 2... Far Cry Malignant Nacisissm Ghost Rider Earthshine The Way the Wind Blows Earthshine The Main Money Business Vapor Trail Workin' Them Angels One Little Victory

Is Earthshine actually on your CD twice? If so, I don't blame you.

[ReflectedLight]

eliminate far cry from the setlist and insert earthshine.

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 3 2012, 01:51 PM)

QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ May 3 2012, 02:48 PM) I actually burned a CD and combined my favorites from the 2... Far Cry Malignant Nacisissm Ghost Rider Earthshine The Way the Wind Blows Earthshine The Main Money Business Vapor Trail Workin' Them Angels One Little Victory Is Earthshine actually on your CD twice? If so, I don't blame you. Fixed!

[goose]

VT for sure. Neil is much more of a writer on that effort.

[Gilbertk]

S&A by a bit.

 

Maybe VT would win but I rarely ever think to listen to it.

[Cygnals]

VT definitely--Dug all the songs on that while S&A I skipped Bravest Face, Good News First; shit pretty much everything (except Faithless) after TMMB.

[CrossedSignals]

Wow, it's interesting (though not surprising) how close the results are so far! These albums really divide people's opinions.

 

I'd like to take a moment and explain why I'm so fond of VT (hint: it has nothing to do with it being "metal" and S&A being "folk"):

 

> The lyric content. When I listen to Vapor Trails, I think, "Wow, Neil is an amazing guy. He has found faith and love for life in the darkest of places. I feel truly inspired to live for the moment and let go of past pain. If he can do it, so can I." When I listen to Snakes & Arrows, I think, "Wow, Neil sure is a cynical old fart. He complains about faith and sounds resigned to the weight of the world. 'Faithless'? 'We Hold On'? That doesn't sound like a guy who's rediscovered his zest for life." The emotional impact of VT is like a sweet and juicy nectarine, or a ripe honeydew. S&A is a bunch of sour grapes.

 

> The chord progressions and riffs....are much more quirky and diverse on Vapor Trails than on Snakes & Arrows. S&A is pretty much all mid-tempo minor pentatonic dirges. Vapor Trails contains some of the most adventurous songwriting I've heard from Rush in decades.

 

> The absence of traditional guitar solos. By abandoning showy, spotlight-on-me guitar solos, Alex was able to get back in touch with the role of his instrument in relation to the ensemble and in relation to the songs. The band grooves together as a unit, each instrument playing off the other, with no one dominating. Everything feels balanced, and as a result, the guitar parts are more interesting and contribute more to each song's arrangement than anything I hear on S&A.

 

> Geddy's vocal delivery....is superb on VT. From Roll The Bones thru Test For Echo, something about his voice sounds off-kilter: his sense of phrasing is off, and he strains his voice in an unpleasant manner. All of that is gone on Vapor Trails. Geddy sings with a newfound zeal and passion that was absent since Presto. In turn he is powerful, tender, loud, and soft, and it all works. On Snakes & Arrows, all that former awkwardness is back with a vengeance. On top of that, the vocal lines themselves sound crammed into the instrumental parts. On VT, the vocals and music appear to have emerged as the result of an organic, integrated songwriting process.

 

> The production....works. Yeah, I said it. Snakes & Arrows is a well-produced album. It's clean, slick, and professional. It's also generic and boring. The timbre is very modern mainstream alt-rock. Vapor Trails, for all its flaws (yes, it is brickwalled... yes, there is an audible crackle of distortion through the whole album...) has a raw, consistent sound that is also unique. It fits.

 

I realize that VT's production is a big stumbling block that simply prevents many people from enjoying the album. I can respect that. I think that if Rush had given the arrangements more room to breathe, used less overdubbing, and went with a more traditional mix/mastering job, VT would rank in most people's top 10. The songwriting and performances are very strong.

 

In conclusion, I love Vapor Trails One of my favorite Rush albums (their best since Power Windows), and it grows on me with every listen.

 

I await the opposition's rebuttal....

Edited May 3, 2012 by CrossedSignals

[SchemingDemon]

I like both albums, but I voted SA by a slim margin. VT has better lyrics, but I think SA has better melodies, even if most people think the album is boring. And I hate to be the upteenth person to bring it up, but the production issue with VT has kept me from really enjoying the album.

 

edit:

QUOTE (CrossedSignals)

I realize that VT's production is a big stumbling block that simply prevents many people from enjoying the album. I can respect that. I think that if Rush had given the arrangements more room to breathe, used less overdubbing, and went with a more traditional mix/mastering job, VT would rank in most people's top 10. The songwriting and performances are very strong.

 

I agree with you here. I bet I could really enjoy the album if it weren't so painful to listen to at times.

Edited May 3, 2012 by SchemingDemon

[CrossedSignals]

QUOTE (SchemingDemon @ May 3 2012, 06:53 PM)

I like both albums, but I voted SA by a slim margin. VT has better lyrics, but I think SA has better melodies, even if most people think the album is boring. And I hate to be the upteenth person to bring it up, but the production issue with VT has kept me from really enjoying the album. edit: QUOTE (CrossedSignals) I realize that VT's production is a big stumbling block that simply prevents many people from enjoying the album. I can respect that. I think that if Rush had given the arrangements more room to breathe, used less overdubbing, and went with a more traditional mix/mastering job, VT would rank in most people's top 10. The songwriting and performances are very strong.   I agree with you here. I bet I could really enjoy the album if it weren't so painful to listen to at times. I can't wait until we finally get that long-overdue full-album remix!   I thought what they did with OLV and Earthshine on Retrospective 3 was very impressive. Have you heard those remixes?

[TheAccountant]

S & A by a very wide margin.

[New World Kid]

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 3 2012, 04:24 PM)

Wow, it's interesting (though not surprising) how close the results are so far! These albums really divide people's opinions. I'd like to take a moment and explain why I'm so fond of VT (hint: it has nothing to do with it being "metal" and S&A being "folk"): > The lyric content. When I listen to Vapor Trails, I think, "Wow, Neil is an amazing guy. He has found faith and love for life in the darkest of places. I feel truly inspired to live for the moment and let go of past pain. If he can do it, so can I." When I listen to Snakes & Arrows, I think, "Wow, Neil sure is a cynical old fart. He complains about faith and sounds resigned to the weight of the world. 'Faithless'? 'We Hold On'? That doesn't sound like a guy who's rediscovered his zest for life." The emotional impact of VT is like a sweet and juicy nectarine, or a ripe honeydew. S&A is a bunch of sour grapes. > The chord progressions and riffs....are much more quirky and diverse on Vapor Trails than on Snakes & Arrows. S&A is pretty much all mid-tempo minor pentatonic dirges. Vapor Trails contains some of the most adventurous songwriting I've heard from Rush in decades. > The absence of traditional guitar solos. By abandoning showy, spotlight-on-me guitar solos, Alex was able to get back in touch with the role of his instrument in relation to the ensemble and in relation to the songs. The band grooves together as a unit, each instrument playing off the other, with no one dominating. Everything feels balanced, and as a result, the guitar parts are more interesting and contribute more to each song's arrangement than anything I hear on S&A. > Geddy's vocal delivery....is superb on VT. From Roll The Bones thru Test For Echo, something about his voice sounds off-kilter: his sense of phrasing is off, and he strains his voice in an unpleasant manner. All of that is gone on Vapor Trails. Geddy sings with a newfound zeal and passion that was absent since Presto. In turn he is powerful, tender, loud, and soft, and it all works. On Snakes & Arrows, all that former awkwardness is back with a vengeance. On top of that, the vocal lines themselves sound crammed into the instrumental parts. On VT, the vocals and music appear to have emerged as the result of an organic, integrated songwriting process. > The production....works. Yeah, I said it. Snakes & Arrows is a well-produced album. It's clean, slick, and professional. It's also generic and boring. The timbre is very modern mainstream alt-rock. Vapor Trails, for all its flaws (yes, it is brickwalled... yes, there is an audible crackle of distortion through the whole album...) has a raw, consistent sound that is also unique. It fits. I realize that VT's production is a big stumbling block that simply prevents many people from enjoying the album. I can respect that. I think that if Rush had given the arrangements more room to breathe, used less overdubbing, and went with a more traditional mix/mastering job, VT would rank in most people's top 10. The songwriting and performances are very strong. In conclusion, I love Vapor Trails One of my favorite Rush albums (their best since Power Windows), and it grows on me with every listen. I await the opposition's rebuttal....

Your opinion of Vapor Trails is very similar to mine. It's my favorite Rush album.

[SchemingDemon]

QUOTE (CrossedSignals @ May 3 2012, 06:12 PM)

QUOTE (SchemingDemon @ May 3 2012, 06:53 PM) I like both albums, but I voted SA by a slim margin. VT has better lyrics, but I think SA has better melodies, even if most people think the album is boring. And I hate to be the upteenth person to bring it up, but the production issue with VT has kept me from really enjoying the album. edit: QUOTE (CrossedSignals) I realize that VT's production is a big stumbling block that simply prevents many people from enjoying the album. I can respect that. I think that if Rush had given the arrangements more room to breathe, used less overdubbing, and went with a more traditional mix/mastering job, VT would rank in most people's top 10. The songwriting and performances are very strong.   I agree with you here. I bet I could really enjoy the album if it weren't so painful to listen to at times. I can't wait until we finally get that long-overdue full-album remix!   I thought what they did with OLV and Earthshine on Retrospective 3 was very impressive. Have you heard those remixes? No I haven't. Where can I find them?   Edit: Youtube is my friend   Edited again: Yeah... I'd definitely rate VT higher if all the songs sounded like that. That is so much better. Aren't they working on a re-release of VT anyways?

Edited May 4, 2012 by SchemingDemon

[worthog]

My grading system: A songs get 5 points, B songs get 3, C songs get 1

 

VT:

1. One Little Victory A

2. Ceiling Unlimited C

3. "Ghost Rider" A

4. "Peaceable Kingdom" C

5. "The Stars Look Down" B

6. "How It Is" B

7. "Vapor Trail" A

8. "Secret Touch" B

9. "Earthshine" B

10. "Sweet Miracle" C

11. "Nocturne" C

12. "Freeze (Part IV of 'Fear')" B

13. "Out Of The Cradle" B

 

S&A:

1. "Far Cry" A

2. "Armor and Sword" A

3. "Workin' Them Angels" A

4. "The Larger Bowl (A Pantoum)" A

5. "Spindrift" C

6. "The Main Monkey Business" B

7. "The Way the Wind Blows" B

8. "Hope" B

9. "Faithless" C

10. "Bravest Face" C

11. "Good News First" C

12. "Malignant Narcissism" A

13. "We Hold On" C

 

VT: 37 points S&A: 39 points

 

I'd like to see how others rate songs with this system

[J2112YYZ]

Vapor Trails.

 

I'm not an audio snob so the production has never bothered me much. The album rocks much harder than S&A and overall has better songs. When I listen to VT I still play most of the album. Over the last year with S&A all I usually listen to are Far Cry, Armor & Sword and The Way The Wind Blows. I guess you can say most of the album isn't aging well with me even though it's not that old yet.

[Animate]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ May 3 2012, 01:32 PM)

VT has the VASTLY better album cover, however.

Totally agree with this, but VT is my favorite cover out of all the albums. Then TFE.