The overlaying theme and concepts in CA?

[Alchemical]

This thread is purely conjecture. I will be laying out my predictions (song by song!) on the overlying themes and storyline of the album. I'll probably be VERY wrong but what fun is there in hypothesizing when you're guaranteed to be correct?

 

 

Caravan: The protagonist is eagerly embarking on his journey. He "can't stop thinking big". He has hopes for his future prospects. His destination? One of the Seven Cities of Gold.

 

BU2B: A rumination on the protagonist's faith? The message is pretty clear and I've always thought there was a sardonic tone to the lyrics.

 

Clockwork Angels: I'm thinking this track will elaborate a bit on "The Watchmaker" as previously mentioned in BU2B. Is he a god? Is he "God"? What exactly ARE Clockwork Angels?

 

The Anarchist: Another character-centered song? Perhaps the protagonist encounters a militant anarchist on his journeys and pitches his beliefs unto him?

 

Carnies: Well...an exotic carnival! Expect color, lots of color. Every shade of the light spectrum will be examined in this song. Interesting (read: freaky) characters abound! Do they join our hero on his journey? I do think so.

 

Halo Effect: This one is tricky. I'm fairly certain this song will be an instrumental, but what does that entail for our protagonist? My guess is he discovers an artifact of sorts that whisks him (Maybe teleports him?) to the riches he seeks.

 

Seven Cities of Gold: Our hero's destination! Temples, fountains, and walls of gold! Riches beyond comprehension. Victory is at hand! But not for long...

 

The Wreckers: Enter the AIRSHIP PIRATES!! They're here for the booty too, and they're not too keen on splitting it with our protagonist and his motley crew.

 

Headlong Flight: The ensuing battle between our hero, his allies, and the so-called wreckers. This will be the climax of the album. Reflection on his journey in the midst of peril, doubt enters the equation. Has our hero made a mistake setting out on this voyage?

 

BU2B: More reflection on faith. Is our hero defeated? Have the wreckers won?

 

Wish Them Well: A goodbye? But to who? Is death inevitable? Will our hero's journey subsist after death?

 

The Garden: Hero, meet Watchmaker. Watchmaker, meet Hero. This song will be layered with moral complexity. Expect rhetorical questions and a soft send-off for the protagonist.

 

 

How do you think the concepts will play out in Clockwork Angels?

[Alexmai]

 

 

Caravan: From his little place to one of the cities of gold... the voyage of Cygnus?

 

BU2B: A view to the future, mixing what he knows and what he expect

 

Clockwork Angels: The city's portal has angels on it, CA is the name of the city itself

 

The Anarchist: The rebellion chief, meeting the real hero

 

Carnies: Presenting the rebel band, kind of fellowship of the Ring...

 

Halo Effect: It's about the Watchmaker. They expect a good guy, because he looks like. But he's not.

 

Seven Cities of Gold: The fellowship tour the seven cities to call for rebellion, on a flying ship

 

The Wreckers: They're the bad guy band, storming the good guys

 

Headlong Flight: The fellowship flies away

 

BU2B: Another view confirms the worst scenario

 

Wish Them Well: The boy of Caravan, the chosen one, dies to save the rebellion

 

The Garden: The boy meets the Watchmaker, in an afterlife similar to Gandalf... to come back on CA2 ;-)

 

[HowItIs]

Well, as I've been thinking for awhile now, this will be a Hero's Journey. Caravan basically tells us so. A Hero's Journey has steps that are hewed to, though they may vary in number. We can guess at some that will appear and ones that might be left out in this particular Journey. They may even be out of order....

 

Departure

The Call to Adventure: The call to adventure is the point in a person's life when they are first given notice that everything is going to change, whether they know it or not. Caravan

Refusal of the Call: Often when the call is given, the future hero refuses to heed it. This may be from a sense of duty or obligation, fear, insecurity, a sense of inadequacy, or any of a range of reasons that work to hold the person in his or her current circumstances. skipped?

Supernatural Aid: Once the hero has committed to the quest, consciously or unconsciously, his or her guide and magical helper appears, or becomes known. Clockwork Angels?

The Crossing of the First Threshold: This is the point where the person actually crosses into the field of adventure, leaving the known limits of his or her world and venturing into an unknown and dangerous realm where the rules and limits are not known. The Anarchist?

The Belly of the Whale: The belly of the whale represents the final separation from the hero's known world and self. It is sometimes described as the person's lowest point, but it is actually the point when the person is between or transitioning between worlds and selves. The separation has been made, or is being made, or being fully recognized between the old world and old self and the potential for a new world/self. The experiences that will shape the new world and self will begin shortly, or may be beginning with this experience which is often symbolized by something dark, unknown and frightening. By entering this stage, the person shows their willingness to undergo a metamorphosis, to die to him or herself. Carnies?

 

Initiation

The Road of Trials: The road of trials is a series of tests, tasks, or ordeals that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes. The Anarchist and Carnies may fulfill this step, too.

The Meeting with the Goddess: The meeting with the goddess represents the point in the adventure when the person experiences a love that has the power and significance of the all-powerful, all encompassing, unconditional love that a fortunate infant may experience with his or her mother. It is also known as the "hieros gamos", or sacred marriage, the union of opposites, and may take place entirely within the person. In other words, the person begins to see him or herself in a non-dualistic way. This is a very important step in the process and is often represented by the person finding the other person that he or she loves most completely. Although Campbell symbolizes this step as a meeting with a goddess, unconditional love and /or self unification does not have to be represented by a woman. Halo Effect?

Woman as the Temptress: At one level, this step is about those temptations that may lead the hero to abandon or stray from his or her quest, which as with the Meeting with the Goddess does not necessarily have to be represented by a woman. For Campbell, however, this step is about the revulsion that the usually male hero may feel about his own fleshy/earthy nature, and the subsequent attachment or projection of that revulsion to women. Woman is a metaphor for the physical or material temptations of life, since the hero-knight was often tempted by lust from his spiritual journey. Likely to be skipped

Atonement with the Father: In this step the person must confront and be initiated by whatever holds the ultimate power in his or her life. In many myths and stories this is the father, or a father figure who has life and death power. This is the center point of the journey. All the previous steps have been moving in to this place, all that follow will move out from it. Although this step is most frequently symbolized by an encounter with a male entity, it does not have to be a male; just someone or thing with incredible power. For the transformation to take place, the person as he or she has been must be "killed" so that the new self can come into being. Sometime this killing is literal, and the earthly journey for that character is either over or moves into a different realm. Seven Cities Of Gold?

Apotheosis: To apotheosize is to deify. When someone dies a physical death, or dies to the self to live in spirit, he or she moves beyond the pairs of opposites to a state of divine knowledge, love, compassion and bliss. This is a god-like state; the person is in heaven and beyond all strife. A more mundane way of looking at this step is that it is a period of rest, peace and fulfillment before the hero begins the return. Reprise of BU2B?

The Ultimate Boon: The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail. Seven Cities Of Gold here?

 

Return

Refusal of the Return: So why, when all has been achieved, the ambrosia has been drunk, and we have conversed with the gods, why come back to normal life with all its cares and woes?The Wreckers?

The Magic Flight: Sometimes the hero must escape with the boon, if it is something that the gods have been jealously guarding. It can be just as adventurous and dangerous returning from the journey as it was to go on it. Headlong Flight

Rescue from Without: Just as the hero may need guides and assistants to set out on the quest, often times he or she must have powerful guides and rescuers to bring them back to everyday life, especially if the person has been wounded or weakened by the experience. Or perhaps the person doesn't realize that it is time to return, that they can return, or that others need their boon. Skipped maybe?

The Crossing of the Return Threshold: The trick in returning is to retain the wisdom gained on the quest, to integrate that wisdom into a human life, and then maybe figure out how to share the wisdom with the rest of the world. This is usually extremely difficult. Wish Them Well?

Master of the Two Worlds: In myth, this step is usually represented by a transcendental hero like Jesus or Buddha. For a human hero, it may mean achieving a balance between the material and spiritual. The person has become comfortable and competent in both the inner and outer worlds. The Garden for this and the next step?

Freedom to Live: Mastery leads to freedom from the fear of death, which in turn is the freedom to live. This is sometimes referred to as living in the moment, neither anticipating the future nor regretting the past.

 

 

We all know how well-read Neil is. I'm certain that he knows about this mythological journey. I'm also just as certain that he has followed the formula, and though it may be mixed up a bit in between, the beginning and end will stick with the "rules" of the story.

 

 

 

[Alchemical]

QUOTE (Alexmai @ Apr 18 2012, 02:41 AM)

Caravan: From his little place to one of the cities of gold... the voyage of Cygnus? BU2B: A view to the future, mixing what he knows and what he expect Clockwork Angels: The city's portal has angels on it, CA is the name of the city itself The Anarchist: The rebellion chief, meeting the real hero Carnies: Presenting the rebel band, kind of fellowship of the Ring... Halo Effect: It's about the Watchmaker. They expect a good guy, because he looks like. But he's not. Seven Cities of Gold: The fellowship tour the seven cities to call for rebellion, on a flying ship The Wreckers: They're the bad guy band, storming the good guys Headlong Flight: The fellowship flies away BU2B: Another view confirms the worst scenario Wish Them Well: The boy of Caravan, the chosen one, dies to save the rebellion The Garden: The boy meets the Watchmaker, in an afterlife similar to Gandalf... to come back on CA2 ;-)

Great interpretation!

[Alexmai]

QUOTE (Alchemical @ Apr 18 2012, 03:24 AM)

QUOTE (Alexmai @ Apr 18 2012, 02:41 AM) Caravan: From his little place to one of the cities of gold... the voyage of Cygnus? BU2B: A view to the future, mixing what he knows and what he expect Clockwork Angels: The city's portal has angels on it, CA is the name of the city itself The Anarchist: The rebellion chief, meeting the real hero Carnies: Presenting the rebel band, kind of fellowship of the Ring... Halo Effect: It's about the Watchmaker. They expect a good guy, because he looks like. But he's not. Seven Cities of Gold: The fellowship tour the seven cities to call for rebellion, on a flying ship The Wreckers: They're the bad guy band, storming the good guys Headlong Flight: The fellowship flies away BU2B: Another view confirms the worst scenario Wish Them Well: The boy of Caravan, the chosen one, dies to save the rebellion The Garden: The boy meets the Watchmaker, in an afterlife similar to Gandalf... to come back on CA2 ;-) Great interpretation!   Thank you Of course, the Watchmaker says "I'm your father" when the hero cries "You killed my father"

Edited April 18, 2012 by Alexmai

[druid13]

thank you Joseph Campbell....

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (Alexmai @ Apr 18 2012, 05:11 AM)

Of course, the Watchmaker says "I'm your father" when the hero cries "You killed my father"

[FountainOfSyrinx]

I thought that only a few songs were related to the storyline?

[Good,bad,andrush]

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Apr 18 2012, 02:52 AM)

Well, as I've been thinking for awhile now, this will be a Hero's Journey. Caravan basically tells us so. A Hero's Journey has steps that are hewed to, though they may vary in number. We can guess at some that will appear and ones that might be left out in this particular Journey. They may even be out of order.... Departure The Call to Adventure: The call to adventure is the point in a person's life when they are first given notice that everything is going to change, whether they know it or not. Caravan Refusal of the Call: Often when the call is given, the future hero refuses to heed it. This may be from a sense of duty or obligation, fear, insecurity, a sense of inadequacy, or any of a range of reasons that work to hold the person in his or her current circumstances. skipped? Supernatural Aid: Once the hero has committed to the quest, consciously or unconsciously, his or her guide and magical helper appears, or becomes known. Clockwork Angels? The Crossing of the First Threshold: This is the point where the person actually crosses into the field of adventure, leaving the known limits of his or her world and venturing into an unknown and dangerous realm where the rules and limits are not known. The Anarchist? The Belly of the Whale: The belly of the whale represents the final separation from the hero's known world and self. It is sometimes described as the person's lowest point, but it is actually the point when the person is between or transitioning between worlds and selves. The separation has been made, or is being made, or being fully recognized between the old world and old self and the potential for a new world/self. The experiences that will shape the new world and self will begin shortly, or may be beginning with this experience which is often symbolized by something dark, unknown and frightening. By entering this stage, the person shows their willingness to undergo a metamorphosis, to die to him or herself. Carnies? Initiation The Road of Trials: The road of trials is a series of tests, tasks, or ordeals that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes. The Anarchist and Carnies may fulfill this step, too. The Meeting with the Goddess: The meeting with the goddess represents the point in the adventure when the person experiences a love that has the power and significance of the all-powerful, all encompassing, unconditional love that a fortunate infant may experience with his or her mother. It is also known as the "hieros gamos", or sacred marriage, the union of opposites, and may take place entirely within the person. In other words, the person begins to see him or herself in a non-dualistic way. This is a very important step in the process and is often represented by the person finding the other person that he or she loves most completely. Although Campbell symbolizes this step as a meeting with a goddess, unconditional love and /or self unification does not have to be represented by a woman. Halo Effect? Woman as the Temptress: At one level, this step is about those temptations that may lead the hero to abandon or stray from his or her quest, which as with the Meeting with the Goddess does not necessarily have to be represented by a woman. For Campbell, however, this step is about the revulsion that the usually male hero may feel about his own fleshy/earthy nature, and the subsequent attachment or projection of that revulsion to women. Woman is a metaphor for the physical or material temptations of life, since the hero-knight was often tempted by lust from his spiritual journey. Likely to be skipped Atonement with the Father: In this step the person must confront and be initiated by whatever holds the ultimate power in his or her life. In many myths and stories this is the father, or a father figure who has life and death power. This is the center point of the journey. All the previous steps have been moving in to this place, all that follow will move out from it. Although this step is most frequently symbolized by an encounter with a male entity, it does not have to be a male; just someone or thing with incredible power. For the transformation to take place, the person as he or she has been must be "killed" so that the new self can come into being. Sometime this killing is literal, and the earthly journey for that character is either over or moves into a different realm. Seven Cities Of Gold? Apotheosis: To apotheosize is to deify. When someone dies a physical death, or dies to the self to live in spirit, he or she moves beyond the pairs of opposites to a state of divine knowledge, love, compassion and bliss. This is a god-like state; the person is in heaven and beyond all strife. A more mundane way of looking at this step is that it is a period of rest, peace and fulfillment before the hero begins the return. Reprise of BU2B? The Ultimate Boon: The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail. Seven Cities Of Gold here? Return Refusal of the Return: So why, when all has been achieved, the ambrosia has been drunk, and we have conversed with the gods, why come back to normal life with all its cares and woes?The Wreckers? The Magic Flight: Sometimes the hero must escape with the boon, if it is something that the gods have been jealously guarding. It can be just as adventurous and dangerous returning from the journey as it was to go on it. Headlong Flight Rescue from Without: Just as the hero may need guides and assistants to set out on the quest, often times he or she must have powerful guides and rescuers to bring them back to everyday life, especially if the person has been wounded or weakened by the experience. Or perhaps the person doesn't realize that it is time to return, that they can return, or that others need their boon. Skipped maybe? The Crossing of the Return Threshold: The trick in returning is to retain the wisdom gained on the quest, to integrate that wisdom into a human life, and then maybe figure out how to share the wisdom with the rest of the world. This is usually extremely difficult. Wish Them Well? Master of the Two Worlds: In myth, this step is usually represented by a transcendental hero like Jesus or Buddha. For a human hero, it may mean achieving a balance between the material and spiritual. The person has become comfortable and competent in both the inner and outer worlds. The Garden for this and the next step? Freedom to Live: Mastery leads to freedom from the fear of death, which in turn is the freedom to live. This is sometimes referred to as living in the moment, neither anticipating the future nor regretting the past. We all know how well-read Neil is. I'm certain that he knows about this mythological journey. I'm also just as certain that he has followed the formula, and though it may be mixed up a bit in between, the beginning and end will stick with the "rules" of the story.

That's pretty interesting, I haven't seen that in a while I think.

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (Alchemical @ Apr 18 2012, 01:42 AM)

This thread is purely conjecture. I will be laying out my predictions (song by song!) on the overlying themes and storyline of the album. I'll probably be VERY wrong but what fun is there in hypothesizing when you're guaranteed to be correct? Caravan: The protagonist is eagerly embarking on his journey. He "can't stop thinking big". He has hopes for his future prospects. His destination? One of the Seven Cities of Gold. BU2B: A rumination on the protagonist's faith? The message is pretty clear and I've always thought there was a sardonic tone to the lyrics. Clockwork Angels: I'm thinking this track will elaborate a bit on "The Watchmaker" as previously mentioned in BU2B. Is he a god? Is he "God"? What exactly ARE Clockwork Angels? The Anarchist: Another character-centered song? Perhaps the protagonist encounters a militant anarchist on his journeys and pitches his beliefs unto him? Carnies: Well...an exotic carnival! Expect color, lots of color. Every shade of the light spectrum will be examined in this song. Interesting (read: freaky) characters abound! Do they join our hero on his journey? I do think so. Halo Effect: This one is tricky. I'm fairly certain this song will be an instrumental, but what does that entail for our protagonist? My guess is he discovers an artifact of sorts that whisks him (Maybe teleports him?) to the riches he seeks. Seven Cities of Gold: Our hero's destination! Temples, fountains, and walls of gold! Riches beyond comprehension. Victory is at hand! But not for long... The Wreckers: Enter the AIRSHIP PIRATES!!    They're here for the booty too, and they're not too keen on splitting it with our protagonist and his motley crew. Headlong Flight: The ensuing battle between our hero, his allies, and the so-called wreckers. This will be the climax of the album. Reflection on his journey in the midst of peril, doubt enters the equation. Has our hero made a mistake setting out on this voyage? BU2B: More reflection on faith. Is our hero defeated?  Have the wreckers won? Wish Them Well: A goodbye? But to who? Is death inevitable? Will our hero's journey subsist after death? The Garden: Hero, meet Watchmaker. Watchmaker, meet Hero. This song will be layered with moral complexity. Expect rhetorical questions and a soft send-off for the protagonist. How do you think the concepts will play out in Clockwork Angels?

I think you are pretty much on the money there!

 

Caravan: The Protagonist begins his journey full of Hope and expectation

 

BU2B: is more of an epiphany concerning his previous life! Everything he's been taught is incorrect or just a form of control.

 

Clockwork Angels describes everyday hardworking people which are present to help people on their journey! Much like the images of the of "Working them Angels: on the S & A tour. Acutally I have always felt that Working them Angels was the inspiration or catalyst behind Clockwork Angels.

 

The Anarchist: He holds a different view of the world, yet he is a good character. he explains how ordinary people can achieve great things if just given a chance and are not hampered by the rules and regulations.

 

Carnies are not as good as you've mentioned, They are truely evil, I think these guys or gals are sent to badly influence the protagonist and derail him on his quest.

 

Halo Effect: Iagree this a is probably an instrumental, I feel our protagonist climbs aboard one of the airships and is whisked away into the heavens where he sees the planet from the vantage point of the Gods. At some points a light shines or something spiritial happens to the Protagonist which makes everyone think he is one of the Chosen.

 

Seven Cities of Gold: The Protagonist reaches his destination, Seven citites set aside by he watchmaker, where anything is possible, there is no Hunger, Drought, pestilence or Wars here. Basically Heaven!

 

The Wreckers: A group of pirates set on destroying and pilaging the Seven Cities of Gold and anyone within it for their own gain. Not Good or Bad, just pirates out for themselves.

 

Headlong Flight: You are right on the money, its a battle between the Wreckers and Clockwork Angels with the Protagonist leading the way! Leading to the defeat of the Wreckers.

 

BU2B2: Another Softer Instrumental where the protagonist contemplates his fate and what he must do from this time forwards.

 

Wish them Well.... Pretty obvious, a salute to the fallen and to the protagonist, who had decides to venture where no other has gone before, forward to meet the Watchmaker.

 

The Garden: The Protagonist enters the Garden and meets the Watcmaker. The Watchmaker explains his obligations and describes how it all works and lays out all the responsibilities which accompanies being The Watchmaker. He then presents the protagonist with the watch that controls everything. The Protagonist now becomes the Watchmaker!

 

 

Edited April 18, 2012 by losingit2k

[Slack jaw gaze]

The Halo Effect is a interesting psychological phenomenon, so I don't think it will be an instrumental. I think it will be central to the story. The protagonist is either a victim of it or someone else is the beneficiary of it. I expect something a little more profound lyrically, a la Subdivisions.

[Coltonz]

Sounds like some great ideas!!! I think the Watchmaker is going to be evil though... Just something about it, makes me think hes a tyrant..

 

And honestly, I hope there is no instrumental on this album.

 

There are 12 tracks. The two in the beginning have pretty much just introduced the setting and character background. The ninth is pretty much the hero looking back on the journey at that point. That leaves HUGE story gaps that need filling. In order to make a proper story, I think each track needs to have some lyric in it. But who knows? Maybe not. Either way, it'll kick some major ass.

 

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (Alexmai @ Apr 18 2012, 04:11 AM)

Of course, the Watchmaker says "I'm your father" when the hero cries "You killed my father"

Han Carnie shot first.

[Running Rebel]

B U TO 2 B or not 2 B, that is the question. -If Shakespeare had twitter.

[Alchemical]

QUOTE (Slack jaw gaze @ Apr 22 2012, 07:02 PM)

The Halo Effect is a interesting psychological phenomenon, so I don't think it will be an instrumental. I think it will be central to the story. The protagonist is either a victim of it or someone else is the beneficiary of it. I expect something a little more profound lyrically, a la Subdivisions.

I had no idea. How did I overlook this??

[likeclockwork]

Halo Effect is not an instrumental. It's short and melodic.

[Tommy Sawyer]

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ Apr 23 2012, 04:01 PM)

Halo Effect is not an instrumental. It's short and melodic.

Source?

[Alchemical]

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ Apr 23 2012, 03:01 PM)

Halo Effect is not an instrumental. It's short and melodic.

Do tell us more! If you're legit of course.

[presto123]

QUOTE (Alchemical @ Apr 24 2012, 03:27 AM)

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ Apr 23 2012, 03:01 PM) Halo Effect is not an instrumental.  It's short and melodic. Do tell us more! If you're legit of course. I think he's legit or at least he heard HF long before any of us because he had the opening lines right by April 13 or so.

[likeclockwork]

What did I see / Fool that I was / Oh a goddess with wings on her heels

 

 

[HowItIs]

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ Apr 30 2012, 03:17 PM)

What did I see / Fool that I was / Oh a goddess with wings on her heels

If this is true, then I will high 5 myself. Thought this song might be about the "goddess" in the story.

[Alchemical]

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ Apr 30 2012, 05:17 PM)

What did I see / Fool that I was / Oh a goddess with wings on her heels

The title track?

[presto123]

QUOTE (Alchemical @ May 1 2012, 02:51 AM)

QUOTE (likeclockwork @ Apr 30 2012, 05:17 PM) What did I see / Fool that I was / Oh a goddess with wings on her heels The title track? I thought he was talking about Halo Effect when he quoted that line.