Neil Peart News Updated

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (drbirdsong @ Jan 18 2012, 10:35 PM)

QUOTE (Tony R @ Jan 18 2012, 07:09 PM) QUOTE (drbirdsong @ Jan 18 2012, 05:20 AM) QUOTE (ak2112 @ Jan 17 2012, 11:44 PM) QUOTE (drbirdsong @ Jan 17 2012, 12:16 AM) The Watchmaker analogy has been around a lot longer than Neil Peart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy And its also been very well destroyed as a theory by several evolutionary biologists. Intelligent Design isnt science, just religion in a not very convincing costume. Ok I guess I'm not done with this thread after all because your post is friggin' hilarious. Evolutionary biologist? What is that? Is it a person who has spent way too much money getting a degree in big words and guessing?     Read the book The Case For A Creator by Lee Strobel or see the movie and then we can talk. Until then degrees in evolution don't mean a thing to a man of faith. Didn't you hear? Evolution is a THEORY. This is the most embarrassing post of 2012. I am pretty sure it will remain so.   "Theory" in this instance (The Theory Evolution) actually means "fact". Sorry, I didn't mean to embarrass you. Has the Theory of Evolution ever been presented as anything but a theory? I'm guessing the facts are the evidence for the theory. Science is self-correcting, as more evidence is discovered the theory will pan out, either way.

Edited January 19, 2012 by ReRushed

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

[ReRushed]

[Test4VitalSigns]

Yay more Neil-bashing

 

[ucsteve667]

QUOTE (Running Rebel @ Jan 18 2012, 03:10 PM)

I want to bring this back up to those that are saying somehow that the recent topic is new or boring. Obviously, you can find anything boring, (wysiati), I mean drum solos can be boring to some, eh? So, not everything is going to excite everyone, but Neil has been consistent throughout Rush's history with approaching these topics, and well, they are insteresting, informative, and well, fun. QUOTE Philosophy and religon are inherantly intertwined. Religion survives because it answers three questions that every reflective person must ask. Who am I? Why am I here? How then shall I live? These are themes that has set Rush apart from much of the mindless drivel of modern music's lyrics.   In 1973, before he was famous Stephen Hawking said, "The answer to the question 'why is the universe [the way it is]?' is 'because we are here.'" This was the era, or start of the concept of the anthropic priniciple and the further study of Newton's "curves and lines of "Grand Designs". And Neil was obviously a fan.   QUOTE Proponents of the anthropic principle suggest that we live in a fine-tuned universe, i.e. a universe that appears to be "fine-tuned" to allow the existence of life as we know it. If any of the basic physical constants were different, then life as we know it would not be possible.   And Hawking's Weak Anthropic Principle, and what he reiterated recently on his 70th birthday,   QUOTE 'It is no surprise that we observe the physical constants to be finely-tuned. If they weren't, we wouldn't be here to observe them.'   Why are we here? Because we're here Roll the bones Why does it happen? Because it happens Roll the bones   In the old days, (for me), we called all this stuff, "trippy", but what good stoner hasn't thought of these things and said, "whooooahhhh!" I mean if Cygnus didn't get you interested in Black Holes surely you can at least appreciate how intersting cosmology could be,   In a uniform expanding universe, every observer sees herself at the center of the expansion, with everything else moving outwards from her.   You move around The small gets big. It's a rig It's action - reaction - Random interaction. So who's afraid Of a little abstraction?   As someone who was known to stay home pouring through Ayn Rand novels or The History of Philosophy, someone who was ever more questioning of things, Neil became a huge inspiration or beacon to search for answers, (if only because I felt I wasn't alone in this).   I mean, are we in fact our own Prime Movers?   I set the wheels in motion turn up all the machines activate the programs and run behind the scene   To ponder that you have to at least view the world of Natural Science, the   Wheels within wheels In a spiral array A pattern so grand And complex     And yet,   Time after time We lose sight of the way Our causes can't see Their effects.   And though, Freewill made me familiar with Pascal's wager, it also gave me one of my favorite concepts and views in my search for life's answers,   Each of us A cell of awareness Imperfect and incomplete Genetic blends With uncertain ends On a fortune hunt That's far too fleet... Brilliant attempt at trying to reel this thread back into a lyrical context...too bad its just a minor speed bump on the road to a wonderful distracting debate on evolution. Im sure the professor would smile at these exchanges... so totally hooked lately on the cosmos and wheels within wheels in a spiral array... btw

[ucsteve667]

QUOTE (hunter @ Jan 18 2012, 08:12 PM)

I disagree. Biological evolution cannot be directly observed. It's mechanisms can, but we can only indirectly observe it through the fossil record. Natural selection is fact. Speciation is still theory. A good one with loads of evidence as you say, but still theory and not directly observable. I'd like to see one instance of biological evolution (speciation) being directly observed.

heres one of many...

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/201...-off-australia/

[hunter]

QUOTE (ucsteve667 @ Jan 18 2012, 07:59 PM)

QUOTE (hunter @ Jan 18 2012, 08:12 PM) I disagree. Biological evolution cannot be directly observed. It's mechanisms can, but we can only indirectly observe it through the fossil record. Natural selection is fact. Speciation is still theory. A good one with loads of evidence as you say, but still theory and not directly observable. I'd like to see one instance of biological evolution (speciation) being directly observed. heres one of many... http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/201...-off-australia/ Nope. Still a shark. And if this hybrid can actually produce offspring it shows that what scientists have classified as separate and distinct species are in fact not. The bacteria is closer but it is still bacteria.

[drbirdsong]

[New World Kid]

QUOTE (hunter @ Jan 18 2012, 07:12 PM)

I disagree. Biological evolution cannot be directly observed. It's mechanisms can, but we can only indirectly observe it through the fossil record. Natural selection is fact. Speciation is still theory. A good one with loads of evidence as you say, but still theory and not directly observable. I'd like to see one instance of biological evolution (speciation) being directly observed.

Ever had a cold one week, gotten over it, then caught it again?

 

That's proof of evolution. The cold virus that infected you evolved into something else, something new that your body wasn't familiar with fighting.

[ucsteve667]

QUOTE (hunter @ Jan 18 2012, 11:04 PM)

QUOTE (ucsteve667 @ Jan 18 2012, 07:59 PM) QUOTE (hunter @ Jan 18 2012, 08:12 PM) I disagree. Biological evolution cannot be directly observed. It's mechanisms can, but we can only indirectly observe it through the fossil record. Natural selection is fact. Speciation is still theory. A good one with loads of evidence as you say, but still theory and not directly observable. I'd like to see one instance of biological evolution (speciation) being directly observed. heres one of many... http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/technology/201...-off-australia/ Nope. Still a shark. And if this hybrid can actually produce offspring it shows that what scientists have classified as separate and distinct species are in fact not. The bacteria is closer but it is still bacteria. weak... its just more proof that life evolves over time to adapt to its surrounding conditions. for all we know now in another 250 million years they might grow lungs and become amphibious

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Jan 18 2012, 10:44 PM)

Why is it ok for a Christian to listen to a band that sings of there being no God and borderline bashing religion/Christianity?

Sorry, but you'll have to answer that question yourself. If you can enjoy Rush songs, even with their anti-religious themes, then you must ask yourself why.

 

Why do good people, with real religious beliefs, listen to bands like Godsmack, who put out songs entitled "I f***ing Hate You"....??? Now there is a mystery.....

 

No two people have the same beliefs....not even if they're both Christians and go to the same church. People have different levels of belief or devoutness. You could be the most serious, most devout follower, and the guy next to you could be just faking it (as his wife is devout and expects him to be the same).

 

It's been my experience that many people claim to be Christian, but it's only part of who they are....sometimes a small part. For many, being a Christian is like having a job; they put in their time (at church, at school, etc.) and then they punch out and go home to more entertaining things. One can't help but question the validity or sincerity of their beliefs.

 

 

[An Enemy Without]

PARF, I don't think listening to Rush has to be justified in any way. Listening to a differing opinion isn't a sin. If you can listen and come away from it stronger in your faith then good for you.

[An Enemy Without]

[Alph Seeker]

QUOTE

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Jan 18 2012, 10:44 PM) Why is it ok for a Christian to listen to a band that sings of there being no God and borderline bashing religion/Christianity?

 

 

If there is a god, then the greatest gift bestowed upon mankind is that of freewill, the ability to listen to views contrary to your own, think about those views, and evaluate your feelings, thereby using that which is our evolutionary accomplishment; the large cerebrum.

 

If there is no god then take out the gift part above.

 

In either case, the greatest sin is willful ignorance.

 

Listen to Rush because it is your god given right or your intellectual driver, or simply because it makes you feel good.

 

 

[rushgoober]

Edited January 19, 2012 by rushgoober

[ucsteve667]

Edited January 19, 2012 by ucsteve667

[ucsteve667]

[rushgoober]

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

Well, thanks to the following:

 

ReRushed

drbirdsong

Workaholic Man

An Enemy Without

Alph Seeker

rushgoober

(in the order they posted and sorry if I left anyone out)

 

I appreciate the honesty and the serious answers. I expected a lot of judgmental and rude responses. Not from anyone in particular. I guess humanity surprises you every now and then.

 

That said, rushgoober, I have disagreed with alot of your opinions, but I appreciate your answer. As I do everyone else's. The thing I don't agree with is your answer makes it sound grey. Like, if you can sleep at night...it's ok. But last time I checked the Bible isn't very grey. You either do certain things or you don't.

 

You said:

QUOTE

What's ultimately most important is to love and accept yourself and to do your very best not to judge yourself. Loving Rush doesn't mean you're going to hell. You can love the parts you love, disagree with the parts you disagree with and have that be ok inside of yourself if you choose to. That part is up to you though. If you really search your soul and decide that you can't do that because it contradicts some core belief you have and you need to let them go, then do that if that's what you need to be at peace with yourself, to love and accept yourself and not judge yourself. I would personally suggest not to be so hard on yourself. Know you're a good person doing the best you can with who you are right now and what you know.

 

From what I read in that paragraph is that for some it would be ok to listen to RUSH and God would be fine with it, if you can sleep at night. But for someone else who is conflicted, then to listen would be wrong and God would not be fine with it. The way I feel now is, I am a little conflicted, but I don't care. I enjoy RUSH and if that is wrong, then so be it. In your paragraph above it sounds like a double standard. One thing I thought about God is that He would not have double standards. But again, that could just be my hangup. You could be 100% correct. I have no idea. But I sincerely appreciate your answer.

 

If I told you my "testimony" (now there is a born again Christian term for you) you would understand my total dismay at God and lack of faith in Him.

 

Sometimes I wish I could just not believe. Life would be so much easier. But if I told you my story, how I know there is a God and why I believe that Jesus is His Son, you'd understand why I can't just not believe.

 

It's a long story and it DOES NOT involve visions or dreams or any supernatural stuff. Just what an atheist would write off to coincidence. I actually wanted to at one time find out the mathematical odds of this coincidence that I speak of, just to see how improbable the situation was.

 

I don't blame atheists for not believing, heck I sometimes find myself in heavy doubt. The people I blame most are the hypocrites of Christianity. The ones who preach it but don't walk it. And to an extent, myself, although I certainly don't preach it. I used to though. Not in an official sense but in an openness to talk to people about it. Not anymore.

 

What kills me is the story of doubting Thomas. Atheists, you can tune out here if you already haven't. Here is a man who lived with Jesus. Spent days on end with him watching miracles. Believing that he was in fact God's Son. Then Jesus is crucified. He comes back just as he said he would and Thomas needs to put his fingers thru the holes on Jesus' hands to believe. Well sometimes I say to myself how can God, expect me to believe 1,979 years later in Him when one of his own Disciples doubted him and needed proof. But here I am in this world filled with hypocrites, supposed Christian preachers, leading people astray left and right. And I want proof. Where is my proof? Why do I have to go on faith?

 

Well anyway, there is a glimpse into my messed up mind. A kid who went to Catholic grade school. Found nothing there except 2 priests who I respected greatly, only to find out years after I graduated both were accused and went to trial for molesting boys. Thankfully I was too honest and mouthy for them to try anything on me. (shocking I know) I think they knew better. But then I become "born again." And the disillusion starts again, time after time, person after person, preacher after preacher. Yet we are supposed to have Faith.

 

Well someday I guess we will all find out what is true and what isn't. That is something none of us can dispute. We will all die and then we will all know whether we made a huge mistake in not believing. Or we didn't do enough to please God. Or maybe we did just enough.

 

The funny thing is. No one really knows. PERIOD. Atheists, for your sake, you better be right. If I am right, I will probably not make the cut anyway. But such is life.

 

 

Apologies to the mods who are probably struggling on whether to move this thread based on posts like this. I am just being honest with how I feel and felt it was Peart-inent (sorry) to the discussion to express it. So sorry if I get this thread either locked or moved. That's part of what I do on TRF.

[HowItIs]

My short answer, Presto, is that you are not threatened by different worldviews and opinions. And good for you!

[ucsteve667]

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Jan 19 2012, 03:14 AM)

Well, thanks to the following: ReRushed drbirdsong Workaholic Man An Enemy Without Alph Seeker rushgoober (in the order they posted and sorry if I left anyone out) I appreciate the honesty and the serious answers. I expected a lot of judgmental and rude responses. Not from anyone in particular. I guess humanity surprises you every now and then. That said, rushgoober, I have disagreed with alot of your opinions, but I appreciate your answer. As I do everyone else's. The thing I don't agree with is your answer makes it sound grey. Like, if you can sleep at night...it's ok. But last time I checked the Bible isn't very grey. You either do certain things or you don't. You said: QUOTE What's ultimately most important is to love and accept yourself and to do your very best not to judge yourself. Loving Rush doesn't mean you're going to hell. You can love the parts you love, disagree with the parts you disagree with and have that be ok inside of yourself if you choose to. That part is up to you though. If you really search your soul and decide that you can't do that because it contradicts some core belief you have and you need to let them go, then do that if that's what you need to be at peace with yourself, to love and accept yourself and not judge yourself. I would personally suggest not to be so hard on yourself. Know you're a good person doing the best you can with who you are right now and what you know.   From what I read in that paragraph is that for some it would be ok to listen to RUSH and God would be fine with it, if you can sleep at night. But for someone else who is conflicted, then to listen would be wrong and God would not be fine with it. The way I feel now is, I am a little conflicted, but I don't care. I enjoy RUSH and if that is wrong, then so be it. In your paragraph above it sounds like a double standard. One thing I thought about God is that He would not have double standards. But again, that could just be my hangup. You could be 100% correct. I have no idea. But I sincerely appreciate your answer.   If I told you my "testimony" (now there is a born again Christian term for you) you would understand my total dismay at God and lack of faith in Him.   Sometimes I wish I could just not believe. Life would be so much easier. But if I told you my story, how I know there is a God and why I believe that Jesus is His Son, you'd understand why I can't just not believe.   It's a long story and it DOES NOT involve visions or dreams or any supernatural stuff. Just what an atheist would write off to coincidence. I actually wanted to at one time find out the mathematical odds of this coincidence that I speak of, just to see how improbable the situation was.   I don't blame atheists for not believing, heck I sometimes find myself in heavy doubt. The people I blame most are the hypocrites of Christianity. The ones who preach it but don't walk it. And to an extent, myself, although I certainly don't preach it. I used to though. Not in an official sense but in an openness to talk to people about it. Not anymore.   What kills me is the story of doubting Thomas. Atheists, you can tune out here if you already haven't. Here is a man who lived with Jesus. Spent days on end with him watching miracles. Believing that he was in fact God's Son. Then Jesus is crucified. He comes back just as he said he would and Thomas needs to put his fingers thru the holes on Jesus' hands to believe. Well sometimes I say to myself how can God, expect me to believe 1,979 years later in Him when one of his own Disciples doubted him and needed proof. But here I am in this world filled with hypocrites, supposed Christian preachers, leading people astray left and right. And I want proof. Where is my proof? Why do I have to go on faith?   Well anyway, there is a glimpse into my messed up mind. A kid who went to Catholic grade school. Found nothing there except 2 priests who I respected greatly, only to find out years after I graduated both were accused and went to trial for molesting boys. Thankfully I was too honest and mouthy for them to try anything on me. (shocking I know) I think they knew better. But then I become "born again." And the disillusion starts again, time after time, person after person, preacher after preacher. Yet we are supposed to have Faith.   Well someday I guess we will all find out what is true and what isn't. That is something none of us can dispute. We will all die and then we will all know whether we made a huge mistake in not believing. Or we didn't do enough to please God. Or maybe we did just enough.   The funny thing is. No one really knows. PERIOD. Atheists, for your sake, you better be right. If I am right, I will probably not make the cut anyway. But such is life.     Apologies to the mods who are probably struggling on whether to move this thread based on posts like this. I am just being honest with how I feel and felt it was Peart-inent (sorry) to the discussion to express it. So sorry if I get this thread either locked or moved. That's part of what I do on TRF. yer post kinda cries: FEAR GUILT FEAR GUILT FEAR GUILT pretty much one of the things Neil is critical of, like many of us heathens. if really wanna get this shut down we can start of the debate on whether the Historical Jesus even really existed at all

[Presto-a RUSH fan!]

QUOTE (ucsteve667 @ Jan 19 2012, 05:14 AM)

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Jan 19 2012, 03:14 AM) Well, thanks to the following: ReRushed drbirdsong Workaholic Man An Enemy Without Alph Seeker rushgoober (in the order they posted and sorry if I left anyone out) I appreciate the honesty and the serious answers.  I expected a lot of judgmental and rude responses.  Not from anyone in particular.  I guess humanity surprises you every now and then. That said, rushgoober, I have disagreed with alot of your opinions, but I appreciate your answer.  As I do everyone else's.  The thing I don't agree with is your answer makes it sound grey.  Like, if you can sleep at night...it's ok.  But last time I checked the Bible isn't very grey.  You either do certain things or you don't.  You said: QUOTE What's ultimately most important is to love and accept yourself and to do your very best not to judge yourself. Loving Rush doesn't mean you're going to hell. You can love the parts you love, disagree with the parts you disagree with and have that be ok inside of yourself if you choose to. That part is up to you though. If you really search your soul and decide that you can't do that because it contradicts some core belief you have and you need to let them go, then do that if that's what you need to be at peace with yourself, to love and accept yourself and not judge yourself. I would personally suggest not to be so hard on yourself. Know you're a good person doing the best you can with who you are right now and what you know.   From what I read in that paragraph is that for some it would be ok to listen to RUSH and God would be fine with it, if you can sleep at night. But for someone else who is conflicted, then to listen would be wrong and God would not be fine with it. The way I feel now is, I am a little conflicted, but I don't care. I enjoy RUSH and if that is wrong, then so be it. In your paragraph above it sounds like a double standard. One thing I thought about God is that He would not have double standards. But again, that could just be my hangup. You could be 100% correct. I have no idea. But I sincerely appreciate your answer.   If I told you my "testimony" (now there is a born again Christian term for you) you would understand my total dismay at God and lack of faith in Him.   Sometimes I wish I could just not believe. Life would be so much easier. But if I told you my story, how I know there is a God and why I believe that Jesus is His Son, you'd understand why I can't just not believe.   It's a long story and it DOES NOT involve visions or dreams or any supernatural stuff. Just what an atheist would write off to coincidence. I actually wanted to at one time find out the mathematical odds of this coincidence that I speak of, just to see how improbable the situation was.   I don't blame atheists for not believing, heck I sometimes find myself in heavy doubt. The people I blame most are the hypocrites of Christianity. The ones who preach it but don't walk it. And to an extent, myself, although I certainly don't preach it. I used to though. Not in an official sense but in an openness to talk to people about it. Not anymore.   What kills me is the story of doubting Thomas. Atheists, you can tune out here if you already haven't. Here is a man who lived with Jesus. Spent days on end with him watching miracles. Believing that he was in fact God's Son. Then Jesus is crucified. He comes back just as he said he would and Thomas needs to put his fingers thru the holes on Jesus' hands to believe. Well sometimes I say to myself how can God, expect me to believe 1,979 years later in Him when one of his own Disciples doubted him and needed proof. But here I am in this world filled with hypocrites, supposed Christian preachers, leading people astray left and right. And I want proof. Where is my proof? Why do I have to go on faith?   Well anyway, there is a glimpse into my messed up mind. A kid who went to Catholic grade school. Found nothing there except 2 priests who I respected greatly, only to find out years after I graduated both were accused and went to trial for molesting boys. Thankfully I was too honest and mouthy for them to try anything on me. (shocking I know) I think they knew better. But then I become "born again." And the disillusion starts again, time after time, person after person, preacher after preacher. Yet we are supposed to have Faith.   Well someday I guess we will all find out what is true and what isn't. That is something none of us can dispute. We will all die and then we will all know whether we made a huge mistake in not believing. Or we didn't do enough to please God. Or maybe we did just enough.   The funny thing is. No one really knows. PERIOD. Atheists, for your sake, you better be right. If I am right, I will probably not make the cut anyway. But such is life.     Apologies to the mods who are probably struggling on whether to move this thread based on posts like this. I am just being honest with how I feel and felt it was Peart-inent (sorry) to the discussion to express it. So sorry if I get this thread either locked or moved. That's part of what I do on TRF. yer post kinda cries: FEAR GUILT FEAR GUILT FEAR GUILT pretty much one of the things Neil is critical of, like many of us heathens. if really wanna get this shut down we can start of the debate on whether the Historical Jesus even really existed at all I totally agree. FEAR and GUILT. Both were beat into me from grades 1 thru 8 in Catholic school. I am not putting down the Catholic religion as it could have been the school I attended, the teachers, the priests. I am thinking since 2 of my favorite priests were brought up on molestation charges that maybe that played a role. I am sure there are Catholic schools and churches that don't beat into the heads of kids FEAR and GUILT but during my formidable years, that is what I came out with.   So I would have to agree with your view on my post 100%.   And by the way, even though I am a "Christian" in that I believe Jesus is the Son of God, that in no way makes me think that I am better than you, Neil or any of your "heathen" brethren. In fact, I envy you. I'd love to not have this, as you put it, fear and guilt, hovering over me.   That is one thing that I TRY not to do is judge others, at least when it comes to religion and choice there of (or not). One thing that at least stuck with me is I am in no position to judge anyone. I just wish the so called mainstream "Christians" took a page out of the BIBLE (their own BIBLE) and did not judge others. If you believe in God, let him do the judging. Hence the reason guys like Pat Robertson and his like make my blood boil. And there you go...I am a hypocrite as I judge them for judging others. That's why I said I "TRY" not to judge others. But these "preachers" should be held to a higher standard and they consistently don't practice what they preach.   But you have no quarrel with me brother. I have some friends that are atheists that I think more highly of than some of my some of my so-called "Christian" friends.

[lerxt1990]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jan 19 2012, 01:17 AM)

Loving Rush doesn't mean you're going to hell.

..or so we think!

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (Presto-a RUSH fan! @ Jan 19 2012, 05:32 AM)

I have some friends that are atheists that I think more highly of than some of my some of my so-called "Christian" friends.

We should all remind ourselves that no one has a monopoly on goodness and integrity. You can look at any group of people anywhere, and you'll find good ones and bad ones and many in between. People you can trust and people who are blatant hypocrites.

 

That's what makes the world go 'round.....

[An Enemy Without]