Karena Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The kick-azzism of those earlier songs softened the message and back then the audience was mostly stoned teenagers stoked to stick it to the man. I don't know anyone who had a problem with Freewill or Tom Sawyer - they rocked. Faithless, BU2B, not so much, plus you have an older less impressionable audience with their own established beliefs. It's a whole different vibe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finding IT Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 16 2012, 02:32 PM) QUOTE (Finding IT @ Jan 16 2012, 09:45 AM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 16 2012, 10:02 AM) QUOTE (Finding IT @ Jan 16 2012, 07:19 AM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 15 2012, 11:26 PM) QUOTE (Finding IT @ Jan 15 2012, 09:11 PM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 15 2012, 08:41 PM) QUOTE (Finding IT @ Jan 15 2012, 07:05 PM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 15 2012, 01:52 PM) QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jan 15 2012, 04:05 AM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 14 2012, 11:48 PM) QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jan 12 2012, 02:05 AM) I really wish that the people who hate Neil and his beliefs - or lack thereof - would just ignore any thread mentioning his name. Really. It's so very tedious to read the same whining over and over again. The guy doesn't believe like you do: DEAL WITH IT and move on. /rant That's not the issue... Then, pray tell, what IS the issue? As I see it - and apparently I am not alone - there is a contingent here that always whines about whatever Neil has written lately. Doesn't matter whether it's a song or an article or a book.... You don't like the fact that he mentions anything negative about your religion. Well guess what? Your religion is ubiquitous. Non-Christians constantly have to hear about it, have it referred to and deal with it every. Single. Day. If Neil, like many of us who do not adhere to that faith, gets a little frustrated with that, you can either ignore it or make a big deal out of it. Too many here LOVE to make a big deal out of it. Because that makes you feel like you are the wronged party, instead of the rest of us who have to live around your religion. I have mentioned before that as far as BU2B is concerned, it is part of a STORY. As such, to project your bias onto it is grossly unfair. Maybe the "Watchmaker" is not the being you assume it to be. Maybe he is the ruler of the society in the story. Or something else entirely. How the hell do you know? No, it's so much more comforting to make the assumption you have made. So you can be all outraged. Again. I re-iterate - get over it. The thing is, that is still not the issue. Im a Christian. I would consider myself pretty strong in my belief. Sure, I like to hear things that reinforce that, but I cannot stand Christian rock bands. Do you know why? It is because they sing about the exact same things every song. When I listen to music, I want variety. I want it to make me think. That's what I love(d) about Rush. Every song was different. Every one was unique. Each lyrical composition took my mind in a new direction. But with S&A there were what, four, five, six songs bashing religion? Honestly, it's getting really old. You probably don't mind because it reinforces your belief, but if CA comes out and it is all anti-religion, I will be incredibly disappointed, and I can promise you I won't be the only one. It is clear Neil has run out of imaginative lyrics. He has gone from philosophical speculation to directly telling me I am wrong for believing what I do. How would you like it if Rush started writing pro-Christian anti-atheist lyrics? Would you not want to express your opinion on it? Would you not be disappointed with this sudden religious turn? Would you not be offended when people tell you "well shut up and don't complain. If you don't want to hear it don't listen to it"? And no, it is not unfair of me to assume that it will be about religion. It is not about my personal bias. It is an educated guess based on both their last album and what Neil has been writing about. But oh wait, I forgot, religious people don't know to use their brains. It's interesting that it bothers you so much but you don't really know how many songs on the album put down religion. There are 13 tracks on S&A. I see three as being critical of religion: (1) Far Cry, (2) The Way the Wind Blows, and (3) Faithless. IMO, Armor and Sword is about religion but is somewhat neutral, discussing good and bad. 3 or 13 tracks is not a thematic domination. It is a definite minority. My sense is that ANY number of songs critical of religion would bother you. I don't listen to the album because I have much better things to do. I do however enjoy the instrumentals, and even of those MalNar has a music video that is critical of religion as a whole. QUOTE My sense is that ANY number of songs critical of religion would bother you. Well of course it would bother me, but if there were one track, would I be "whining" about it? No. Not until the point when it gets redundant and I get tired of being beaten over the head with his philosophy of "religion is wrong". A couple points. MalNar is obviously an instrumental. The video was created by a fan. Rush had nothing to do with its production. The band has adopted because they like it. Far Cry, The Way the Wind Blows, and Faithless are only redundant in the broadest possible thematic sense. They deal with different perspectives and points-of-view. You don't listen to S&A for the same reason that I don't listen to sermons. The difference is that I don't bitch and moan about a Preacher's message. That's not the only difference. I've said this before. The preacher already has an established fan base. They listen to him because they expect to hear a certain thing. With Rush, I expect Neil to create powerful, thought-provoking lyrics like he used to. When he doesn't do that and spoon feeds us by beating us over the head with his point of view. Something is expected of the preacher, and he delivers. Something is expected of Neil, and he doesn't. It's all about expectations. That is a matter of opinion. Neil has been writing about the personal and societal role that religion has for decades. It is definitely not a new theme. I would argue that the lyrics that offend you ARE thought-provoking. You just don't like the thoughts or, perhaps, what they provoke. He used to write much better lyrics though. He has only recently begun telling us directly, in no uncertain terms that we are wrong. Try and tell me these are thought provoking and not just spoon feeding. Now it's come to this Hollow speeches of mass deception From the Middle East to the Middle West Like crusaders in a holy alliance Now it's come to this Like we're back in the dark ages From the Middle East to the Middle West It's a plague that resists all science It seems to leave them partly blind And they leave no child behind While evil spirits haunt their sleep While shepherds bless and count their sheep Wow, I wonder what these lyrics mean? I would have to think really hard about it to understand what he's saying. Comparing the middle-east to the middle-west is VERY thought provoking in a country as isolated as the US. Comparing the battles of Christianity to Islam in the middle-ages to the battles of Christianity and Islam in the current age is VERY thought provoking. He is asking what have we learned in the last 1,000 years? We are still fighting the same wars over the same stupid shit. It IS like the dark ages, both metaphorically and literally. The variation of mass deception and mass destruction (as in weapons of) is quite clever. It was, after all, the hollow speeches associated with weapons of mass destruction that lead us into Iraq. Whatever floats your boat. It's cool that you like the song, but it just doesn't resonate with me. And believe it or not, I understand the sentiment. You feel as if you're stuck between two sides in a religious war and are powerless to stop it. I get it, and believe it or not, I kind of feel the same wNoway. I don't want this either. I wish I was represented by the most reasonable, not the most vocal. But as of now, I am powerless. Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Digital Man Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It could be worse, he could be a scientologist, there's plenty of 'em living in LA and in the music business and writing about that which would worry me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony R Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 QUOTE (New Digital Man @ Jan 16 2012, 04:45 PM) It could be worse, he could be a scientologist, there's plenty of 'em living in LA and in the music business and writing about that which would worry me! Oh god, how much would THAT suck?!??!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrapin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 QUOTE (Karena @ Jan 16 2012, 08:04 PM) The kick-azzism of those earlier songs softened the message and back then the audience was mostly stoned teenagers stoked to stick it to the man. I don't know anyone who had a problem with Freewill or Tom Sawyer - they rocked. Faithless, BU2B, not so much, plus you have an older less impressionable audience with their own established beliefs. It's a whole different vibe. Irregardless of the "kick-azzism" (whatever that means) or the sobriety levels of the audience at the time, Peart's message was quite apparent from the outset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrapin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 QUOTE (Terrapin @ Jan 16 2012, 05:30 PM) QUOTE (Karena @ Jan 16 2012, 08:04 PM) The kick-azzism of those earlier songs softened the message and back then the audience was mostly stoned teenagers stoked to stick it to the man. I don't know anyone who had a problem with Freewill or Tom Sawyer - they rocked. Faithless, BU2B, not so much, plus you have an older less impressionable audience with their own established beliefs. It's a whole different vibe. Irregardless of the "kick-azzism" (whatever that means) or the sobriety levels of the audience at the time, Peart's message was quite apparent from the outset. She means the songs were good enough that it wouldn't have mattered what he was saying. Now, their music just isn't as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeminiRising79 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Jan 16 2012, 11:29 AM) ...he can't seem to understand why fans seek out the people they admire simply because he never cared about looking the hotel suites belonging to member of the Who. There's really nothing to understand. It's something people like to do. Neil was only using psychology on his more frenzied fans here, and trying to paint his earlier self as sophisticated, rather than the insignificant hippie musician he was at the time. Let's not be naive here- Neil would have licked-clean John Bonham's used drumsticks had he the opportunity back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New World Kid Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 16 2012, 01:44 PM) Just messing with you. But seriously, can you explain why I have a problem with his recent lyrics but not the ones you mentioned? Old Rush Good, New Rush Bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowItIs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knice Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I agree with lerxst1990. Neil has every right to express himself. Thank God we live in a free country to do that. He should be able to express himself. I just think the way he is kind of mocking faith is wrong and almost rude. Kind of a "I am holy'er than though" type attitude. I love their music, can't wait for the new album.....just hope its not a slam on faith or God, getting kind of old. Make no mistake, I want Neil to express him self, just use some judgement by not putting down people of faith as misguided. Its kind of an attack, though attack is kind of a strong word, it kind of fits. Feeling the need to say oh I celebrate Christmas, but in a faith kind of way...ie: christian massacre, or "while our loving watchmaker love us all to death". thats kind of a slam. And make no mistake, the watchmaker is God. Kind of a mockery if you ask me. I read the somebody predicted the new tunes would be about a kid growing up and finding out or realizing God does not exist and that he is enlightened. Kind of sounds like something he would write. Again, relax, just speculating but I hope they dont end on this note in the end of their career. I do LOVE THESE GUYS, they rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Rebel Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucsteve667 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Rebel Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (Knice @ Jan 16 2012, 09:12 PM) I agree with lerxst1990. Neil has every right to express himself. Thank God we live in a free country to do that. He should be able to express himself. I just think the way he is kind of mocking faith is wrong and almost rude. Kind of a "I am holy'er than though" type attitude. I love their music, can't wait for the new album.....just hope its not a slam on faith or God, getting kind of old. Make no mistake, I want Neil to express him self, just use some judgement by not putting down people of faith as misguided. Its kind of an attack, though attack is kind of a strong word, it kind of fits. Feeling the need to say oh I celebrate Christmas, but in a faith kind of way...ie: christian massacre, or "while our loving watchmaker love us all to death". thats kind of a slam. And make no mistake, the watchmaker is God. Kind of a mockery if you ask me. I read the somebody predicted the new tunes would be about a kid growing up and finding out or realizing God does not exist and that he is enlightened. Kind of sounds like something he would write. Again, relax, just speculating but I hope they dont end on this note in the end of their career. I do LOVE THESE GUYS, they rock. Are Christians mocking athiests with their statements? When they say things like, Jesus is the only true path to salvation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowItIs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Knice @ Jan 16 2012, 07:12 PM) I agree with lerxst1990. Neil has every right to express himself. Thank God we live in a free country to do that. He should be able to express himself. I just think the way he is kind of mocking faith is wrong and almost rude. Kind of a "I am holy'er than though" type attitude. I love their music, can't wait for the new album.....just hope its not a slam on faith or God, getting kind of old. Make no mistake, I want Neil to express him self, just use some judgement by not putting down people of faith as misguided. Its kind of an attack, though attack is kind of a strong word, it kind of fits. Feeling the need to say oh I celebrate Christmas, but in a faith kind of way...ie: christian massacre, or "while our loving watchmaker love us all to death". thats kind of a slam. And make no mistake, the watchmaker is God. Kind of a mockery if you ask me. I read the somebody predicted the new tunes would be about a kid growing up and finding out or realizing God does not exist and that he is enlightened. Kind of sounds like something he would write. Again, relax, just speculating but I hope they dont end on this note in the end of their career. I do LOVE THESE GUYS, they rock. So you know this for a fact, do you? That's pretty darned arrogant, IMO. You know exactly what CA is about, then? I'm sorry but Neil does not have a "holier than Thou" attitude. Anyone who thinks so is either not paying attention or has a major victim complex. Never does he put down anyone for following their own path. He writes what HE believes. If that is such a huge deal, as I said before, one should look at why someone writing about beliefs other than their own should be such a threat. Edited January 17, 2012 by HowItIs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knice Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 How it is, did you miss your meds today? haha chill dude, i said if you can reread it, i was just speculating and I hope he doesn't bore us with this theme.......again. No victim here, just reiterating how many are feeling. chill and reread. I love that song how it is!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstateNYfan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Oh man, I think it's time for all of us to have some beers! Enough already. For those who are offended, there is an easily solution: stop supporting the band. Yes, the last poster is correct. Of course The Watchmaker is God; is it God that is being mocked, or the futility of life, or the pointlessness of belief in a higher power? My opinion is that is in fact God being mocked. Ergo, we do good, we make good choices, and then our Loving God watches us all die. Moreover, it is brilliantly tied in with the Time Machine theme and the intricacies high-end watchmaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knice Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 great post above NYSTATE FAN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Enemy Without Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (New World Kid @ Jan 16 2012, 07:29 PM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jan 16 2012, 01:44 PM) Just messing with you. But seriously, can you explain why I have a problem with his recent lyrics but not the ones you mentioned? Old Rush Good, New Rush Bad? Oh you lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Im not offended. Im bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Rebel Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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