RPG: Pyromania vs. Don't Look Back

[Rick N. Backer]

Def Leppard.

 

They were my favorite band for a long time when I was younger. I never got into Boston and from what I gather it's a popular belief that they pretty much shot their wad with that first album. At least Leppard made it to album number four before they did that.

 

It was all in the timing. Tom Scholz was/is a studio perfectionist. He recorded almost the entirety of the debut by himself in his basement on technology he either borrowed or created while working for Polaroid or some tech company like that. He just had Brad Delp come in for vocals and Sib Hashian come in for drum tracks, plus a couple extra guitars by another friend Barry Goudreau. Anyway the point of all that is he and his invited friends had endless time to tinker and develop songs in his basement to perfection, and then the record company got a hold of them. After a debacle where the label demanded the album be rerecorded professionally (which Scholz slyly did a little extra work on everything at home and passed it off to them as "professional"), Boston's debut saw massive success right out of the gate, and they had to go on tour (which meant an actual Boston touring band had to be concocted quickly). After some time touring, the label was on their butts to release another album, but Tom wasn't ready, and he kept arguing for more time in the studio. Eventually the label had their way and Scholz turned out Don't Look Back, somewhat unpolished and unfinished. The public made a couple hits out of it, but it was pretty obvious it was rushed and as such didn't do as well as the debut. After that, the label eventually let Tom work on his own schedule, which led to an 8 year gap between the second and third albums (after a two year gap between the first and second, not common in the 70s). By that point, it didn't matter how great the next Boston album was, they were old news in a world that had already seen the commercial rise and fall of AOR via Journey, Styx, Foreigner, REO Speedwagon, and others petering out by the mid 80s. And by the time of their fourth album, Brad Delp had left the band and grunge had become the status quo of rock. Had Boston been able to work more quickly, or produce better results under pressure, their fate wouldn't have likely been tied to that killer debut. But it may just be that Tom really didn't have much left to say after that gem of a record. I doubt he ever seriously considered his band would see the success that it did.

 

Very thoughtful post EP. :cheers:

 

I'll add that I know some people who have dealt with Scholz in different ventures. He is not a good guy, from what I've heard.

[laughedatbytime]

Did you just produce this matchup so Rick N. Backer's head would explode?

 

He's talking about the band.

True, but they're still from Boston. I'm guessing you'd have trouble voting against New Kids on the Block.

 

It would depend on the matchup. I'm probably going NKOTB over Hold Your Fire, for example.

Come on, man.

 

What? If the music stinks, I'm going with boys from "Dot" (Dorchester) all day every day.

I would never vote for a boy band or a Disney creation ever. Not even against Van Hagar.

 

Disney creation? You mean like Toy Story or Monsters, Inc.? I love Disney. How can you not love Disney?

 

Teatard.

 

I was more referring to Disney Radio artists and bands/acts formed for their shows mostly on Teen Disney.

 

The rest of Disney could take all whole new thread to discuss the positives and negatives.

[Entre_Perpetuo]

Def Leppard.

 

They were my favorite band for a long time when I was younger. I never got into Boston and from what I gather it's a popular belief that they pretty much shot their wad with that first album. At least Leppard made it to album number four before they did that.

 

It was all in the timing. Tom Scholz was/is a studio perfectionist. He recorded almost the entirety of the debut by himself in his basement on technology he either borrowed or created while working for Polaroid or some tech company like that. He just had Brad Delp come in for vocals and Sib Hashian come in for drum tracks, plus a couple extra guitars by another friend Barry Goudreau. Anyway the point of all that is he and his invited friends had endless time to tinker and develop songs in his basement to perfection, and then the record company got a hold of them. After a debacle where the label demanded the album be rerecorded professionally (which Scholz slyly did a little extra work on everything at home and passed it off to them as "professional"), Boston's debut saw massive success right out of the gate, and they had to go on tour (which meant an actual Boston touring band had to be concocted quickly). After some time touring, the label was on their butts to release another album, but Tom wasn't ready, and he kept arguing for more time in the studio. Eventually the label had their way and Scholz turned out Don't Look Back, somewhat unpolished and unfinished. The public made a couple hits out of it, but it was pretty obvious it was rushed and as such didn't do as well as the debut. After that, the label eventually let Tom work on his own schedule, which led to an 8 year gap between the second and third albums (after a two year gap between the first and second, not common in the 70s). By that point, it didn't matter how great the next Boston album was, they were old news in a world that had already seen the commercial rise and fall of AOR via Journey, Styx, Foreigner, REO Speedwagon, and others petering out by the mid 80s. And by the time of their fourth album, Brad Delp had left the band and grunge had become the status quo of rock. Had Boston been able to work more quickly, or produce better results under pressure, their fate wouldn't have likely been tied to that killer debut. But it may just be that Tom really didn't have much left to say after that gem of a record. I doubt he ever seriously considered his band would see the success that it did.

 

Very thoughtful post EP. :cheers:

 

I'll add that I know some people who have dealt with Scholz in different ventures. He is not a good guy, from what I've heard.

 

Thanks!

 

Oh well that's too bad, I always try to assume the best about people, but I could definitely see someone as perfectionistic as him not being great to work with.

[Entre_Perpetuo]

Did you just produce this matchup so Rick N. Backer's head would explode?

 

He's talking about the band.

True, but they're still from Boston. I'm guessing you'd have trouble voting against New Kids on the Block.

 

It would depend on the matchup. I'm probably going NKOTB over Hold Your Fire, for example.

Come on, man.

 

What? If the music stinks, I'm going with boys from "Dot" (Dorchester) all day every day.

I would never vote for a boy band or a Disney creation ever. Not even against Van Hagar.

 

Disney creation? You mean like Toy Story or Monsters, Inc.? I love Disney. How can you not love Disney?

 

Teatard.

 

I was more referring to Disney Radio artists and bands/acts formed for their shows mostly on Teen Disney.

 

The rest of Disney could take all whole new thread to discuss the positives and negatives.

 

Positive: because of Disney I have more new Star Wars content!

Negative: because of Disney at least some of that new Star Wars content isn't up to par

Positive: but because of Disney Star Wars has the budget to produce a wide variety of projects at once so the quantities of good may outweigh the bad

Negative: but because of Disney, George Lucas and Dave Filoni aren't in full control even though the entire fanbase agrees they should be

Positive: but because of Disney Jon Favreau was brought on for The Mandolorian and he worked wonders!

Negative: but because of Disney the sequel trilogy was a mess of directorial differences and spaghetti plot lines when it could have been cohesive

 

and the list goes on...

[Entre_Perpetuo]

I've decided to split my vote. Pyromania and Boston. Leppard may have more great material, but I never light up when they come on the radio the way I do when I hear Boston on the radio, especially anything from that debut.

[Rick N. Backer]

Did you just produce this matchup so Rick N. Backer's head would explode?

 

He's talking about the band.

True, but they're still from Boston. I'm guessing you'd have trouble voting against New Kids on the Block.

 

It would depend on the matchup. I'm probably going NKOTB over Hold Your Fire, for example.

Come on, man.

 

What? If the music stinks, I'm going with boys from "Dot" (Dorchester) all day every day.

I would never vote for a boy band or a Disney creation ever. Not even against Van Hagar.

 

Disney creation? You mean like Toy Story or Monsters, Inc.? I love Disney. How can you not love Disney?

 

Teatard.

 

I was more referring to Disney Radio artists and bands/acts formed for their shows mostly on Teen Disney.

 

The rest of Disney could take all whole new thread to discuss the positives and negatives.

 

There are no negatives. Their parks run as smoothly as any operation I've ever observed. Their content is great.

 

Being serious about the New Kids for a moment, I don't believe they are Disney related. As far as "boy bands," go, I have to admit I do like the Monkees. Nick Lachey used to have an MTV show with his then-wife Jessica Simpson that actually made me see him in a new light. He's pretty funny, and is a family guy. There's a really funny episode where he's playing golf with Simpson and she talks to him while he's teeing off, causing him to slam his club on the ground. Probably should have known trouble was on the horizon after that.

[laughedatbytime]

Did you just produce this matchup so Rick N. Backer's head would explode?

 

He's talking about the band.

True, but they're still from Boston. I'm guessing you'd have trouble voting against New Kids on the Block.

 

It would depend on the matchup. I'm probably going NKOTB over Hold Your Fire, for example.

Come on, man.

 

What? If the music stinks, I'm going with boys from "Dot" (Dorchester) all day every day.

I would never vote for a boy band or a Disney creation ever. Not even against Van Hagar.

 

Disney creation? You mean like Toy Story or Monsters, Inc.? I love Disney. How can you not love Disney?

 

Teatard.

 

I was more referring to Disney Radio artists and bands/acts formed for their shows mostly on Teen Disney.

 

The rest of Disney could take all whole new thread to discuss the positives and negatives.

 

There are no negatives. Their parks run as smoothly as any operation I've ever observed. Their content is great.

 

Being serious about the New Kids for a moment, I don't believe they are Disney related. As far as "boy bands," go, I have to admit I do like the Monkees. Nick Lachey used to have an MTV show with his then-wife Jessica Simpson that actually made me see him in a new light. He's pretty funny, and is a family guy. There's a really funny episode where he's playing golf with Simpson and she talks to him while he's teeing off, causing him to slam his club on the ground. Probably should have known trouble was on the horizon after that.

I don't think I said NKOTB was a Disney creation, just a boy band. If that wasn't clear, I apologize; I knew they weren't.

[Rick N. Backer]

Did you just produce this matchup so Rick N. Backer's head would explode?

 

He's talking about the band.

True, but they're still from Boston. I'm guessing you'd have trouble voting against New Kids on the Block.

 

It would depend on the matchup. I'm probably going NKOTB over Hold Your Fire, for example.

Come on, man.

 

What? If the music stinks, I'm going with boys from "Dot" (Dorchester) all day every day.

I would never vote for a boy band or a Disney creation ever. Not even against Van Hagar.

 

Disney creation? You mean like Toy Story or Monsters, Inc.? I love Disney. How can you not love Disney?

 

Teatard.

 

I was more referring to Disney Radio artists and bands/acts formed for their shows mostly on Teen Disney.

 

The rest of Disney could take all whole new thread to discuss the positives and negatives.

 

There are no negatives. Their parks run as smoothly as any operation I've ever observed. Their content is great.

 

Being serious about the New Kids for a moment, I don't believe they are Disney related. As far as "boy bands," go, I have to admit I do like the Monkees. Nick Lachey used to have an MTV show with his then-wife Jessica Simpson that actually made me see him in a new light. He's pretty funny, and is a family guy. There's a really funny episode where he's playing golf with Simpson and she talks to him while he's teeing off, causing him to slam his club on the ground. Probably should have known trouble was on the horizon after that.

I don't think I said NKOTB was a Disney creation, just a boy band. If that wasn't clear, I apologize; I knew they weren't.

 

I misunderstood. You used the disjunctive "or."

[Lorraine]

Album: Pyromania

Band: Boston

 

:blah: Ditto.

[Lorraine]

Now I have to go look up what "disjunctive" means.

[Segue Myles]

[laughedatbytime]

Did you just produce this matchup so Rick N. Backer's head would explode?

 

He's talking about the band.

True, but they're still from Boston. I'm guessing you'd have trouble voting against New Kids on the Block.

 

It would depend on the matchup. I'm probably going NKOTB over Hold Your Fire, for example.

Come on, man.

 

What? If the music stinks, I'm going with boys from "Dot" (Dorchester) all day every day.

I would never vote for a boy band or a Disney creation ever. Not even against Van Hagar.

 

Disney creation? You mean like Toy Story or Monsters, Inc.? I love Disney. How can you not love Disney?

 

Teatard.

 

I was more referring to Disney Radio artists and bands/acts formed for their shows mostly on Teen Disney.

 

The rest of Disney could take all whole new thread to discuss the positives and negatives.

 

There are no negatives. Their parks run as smoothly as any operation I've ever observed. Their content is great.

 

Being serious about the New Kids for a moment, I don't believe they are Disney related. As far as "boy bands," go, I have to admit I do like the Monkees. Nick Lachey used to have an MTV show with his then-wife Jessica Simpson that actually made me see him in a new light. He's pretty funny, and is a family guy. There's a really funny episode where he's playing golf with Simpson and she talks to him while he's teeing off, causing him to slam his club on the ground. Probably should have known trouble was on the horizon after that.

I don't think I said NKOTB was a Disney creation, just a boy band. If that wasn't clear, I apologize; I knew they weren't.

 

I misunderstood. You used the disjunctive "or."

That's my favorite kind! :dweez:

[J2112YYZ]

Now I have to go look up what "disjunctive" means.

 

I just did that too ������

 

Me too.

 

When I see words like that pop up online and my first thought is do people actually use that in real conversation?

Edited July 15, 2021 by J2112YYZ

[Lorraine]

Now I have to go look up what "disjunctive" means.

 

I just did that too ������

 

Me too.

 

I see words like that pop up online and my first thought is do people actually use that in real conversation?

 

It might be disjunctive of you to raise such a question.

[laughedatbytime]

Now I have to go look up what "disjunctive" means.

 

I just did that too ������

 

Me too.

 

When I see words like that pop up online and my first thought is do people actually use that in real conversation?

I tend to use the copulative "and" more.

[custom55]

Did you just produce this matchup so Rick N. Backer's head would explode?

 

He's talking about the band.

True, but they're still from Boston. I'm guessing you'd have trouble voting against New Kids on the Block.

 

I saw NKOTB... I took my niece back in '92 and hung out at the bar with the other adults while my niece screamed her brains out.

 

Fun evening.

[Rick N. Backer]

Now I have to go look up what "disjunctive" means.

 

I just did that too ������

 

Me too.

 

When I see words like that pop up online and my first thought is do people actually use that in real conversation?

I tend to use the copulative "and" more.

 

Now, see, that's interesting. I tend to use "conjunctive," in that context, although copulative is correct and probably raises more eyebrows. I'm going to start doing that.

[Entre_Perpetuo]

If grammar debates are what it takes to get these RPG threads popular then I'm all for it!

 

How do y'all feel about Oxford commas?

[laughedatbytime]

Now I have to go look up what "disjunctive" means.

 

I just did that too ������

 

Me too.

 

When I see words like that pop up online and my first thought is do people actually use that in real conversation?

I tend to use the copulative "and" more.

 

Now, see, that's interesting. I tend to use "conjunctive," in that context, although copulative is correct and probably raises more eyebrows. I'm going to start doing that.

Just don't do it with anyone who might consider it a microaggression.

[Rick N. Backer]

Now I have to go look up what "disjunctive" means.

 

I just did that too ������

 

Me too.

 

When I see words like that pop up online and my first thought is do people actually use that in real conversation?

I tend to use the copulative "and" more.

 

Now, see, that's interesting. I tend to use "conjunctive," in that context, although copulative is correct and probably raises more eyebrows. I'm going to start doing that.

Just don't do it with anyone who might consider it a microaggression.

 

It is probably a chimera to wish that such reactions didn't happen with such frequency, but this is the world we live in.

[Rick N. Backer]

If grammar debates are what it takes to get these RPG threads popular then I'm all for it!

 

How do y'all feel about Oxford commas?

 

I'm against them.

[Lorraine]

Youse guys use commas?

[laughedatbytime]

If grammar debates are what it takes to get these RPG threads popular then I'm all for it!

 

How do y'all feel about Oxford commas?

They seem necessary.

Edited July 15, 2021 by laughedatbytime

[Entre_Perpetuo]

If grammar debates are what it takes to get these RPG threads popular then I'm all for it!

 

How do y'all feel about Oxford commas?

They seem necessary.

 

I agree!

[The Analog Cub]

Pyromania is the best Def Leppard album, and is better than either High N' Dry or Hysteria.