1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 How can you determine which drummer is better than another? It's not that simple. Some drummers are better at certain things than others. Neil doesn't have the groove of Gavin and Carter. Phil Rudd probably doesn't have the imagination of Neil. And so forth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 How can you determine which drummer is better than another? personal preference is the real answer, but there are a few ways to look at it. I pretty much come from the school of thought that says a good musician is the one who does his job and fits the music. others will tell you how good you are only has to do with how technical you are. others say it's all about "swing." everyone's full of shit when it comes down to it. just play what you want and play to fit the song 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?Groove.What does that mean? Is it the same as having "feel"? Yes, define "groove", please. "a cognitive temporal phenomenon emerging from one or more carefully aligned concurrent rhythmic patterns, characterized by...perception of recurring pulses, and subdivision of structure in such pulses,...perception of a cycle of time, of length 2 or more pulses, enabling identification of cycle locations, and...effectiveness of engaging synchronizing body responses" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 If you want an excellent example of a drummer that can outgroove Neil while keeping it simple, check out AC/DC. Phil Rudd is one of the absolute best rock drummers in the world. A lot of people here will laugh at that, but guys like Rudd and Kenny Aronoff are very good at what they do. Mind you, I'm not sure you could plug those guys into Rush too easily -- which is one of the things that makes Neil special -- but we're talking groove here. As far as groove goes for rock drummers, nothing tops Bonzo in my opinion. I saw an interview with ginger baker and he's talking about how bonham couldn't groove at all. see? everyone is full of shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 How can you determine which drummer is better than another? personal preference is the real answer, but there are a few ways to look at it. I pretty much come from the school of thought that says a good musician is the one who does his job and fits the music. others will tell you how good you are only has to do with how technical you are. others say it's all about "swing." everyone's full of shit when it comes down to it. just play what you want and play to fit the song Right. Anyone who says someone like Phil Rudd sucks in comparison to Neil isn't getting it. Apples and oranges. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 How can you determine which drummer is better than another? personal preference is the real answer, but there are a few ways to look at it. I pretty much come from the school of thought that says a good musician is the one who does his job and fits the music. others will tell you how good you are only has to do with how technical you are. others say it's all about "swing." everyone's full of shit when it comes down to it. just play what you want and play to fit the song Right. Anyone who says someone like Phil Rudd sucks in comparison to Neil isn't getting it. Apples and oranges. can you imagine the poor fool who honestly believes AC/DC or the ramones would be better bands with neil peart or mike portnoy on the kit? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Have you ever considered volunteering for vivisection? It would suit you.That's what made him this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirteen Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 If you want an excellent example of a drummer that can outgroove Neil while keeping it simple, check out AC/DC. Phil Rudd is one of the absolute best rock drummers in the world. Damn straight. Off topic - my favourite Phil Rudd groove drumming is during the chorus of Jail Break. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanadu Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 If you want an excellent example of a drummer that can outgroove Neil while keeping it simple, check out AC/DC. Phil Rudd is one of the absolute best rock drummers in the world. A lot of people here will laugh at that, but guys like Rudd and Kenny Aronoff are very good at what they do. Mind you, I'm not sure you could plug those guys into Rush too easily -- which is one of the things that makes Neil special -- but we're talking groove here. As far as groove goes for rock drummers, nothing tops Bonzo in my opinion. I saw an interview with ginger baker and he's talking about how bonham couldn't groove at all. see? everyone is full of shit. That's the problem with all these comparisons. There's sometimes a fine line between fact and opinion, and you can't even get everyone to agree on what is fact and what is opinion. But what would the internet be if we all didn't sit here and argue these things anyway? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) How can you determine which drummer is better than another? personal preference is the real answer, but there are a few ways to look at it. I pretty much come from the school of thought that says a good musician is the one who does his job and fits the music. others will tell you how good you are only has to do with how technical you are. others say it's all about "swing." everyone's full of shit when it comes down to it. just play what you want and play to fit the song Right. Anyone who says someone like Phil Rudd sucks in comparison to Neil isn't getting it. Apples and oranges.That's why it annoys me when people always put Ringo Star's drumming down. He was the perfect drummer for The Beatles. Edited November 19, 2015 by snowdogged 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Check out his double-pedal work here. I don't know that Neil could do it. http://youtu.be/uftARK21gYQ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 How can you determine which drummer is better than another? It's not that simple. Some drummers are better at certain things than others. Neil doesn't have the groove of Gavin and Carter. Phil Rudd probably doesn't have the imagination of Neil. And so forth.Kind of my point partially. Phil Rudd has been mentioned. Because he played a style suited to acdc doesn't mean he couldn't do anything else. My instrument is guitar. People argue about who is the best all the time. Impossible to ever have an answer to this question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Check out his double-pedal work here. I don't know that Neil could do it. http://youtu.be/uftARK21gYQWOW!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 it's not elitism. neil's a very mechanical drummer who can't improvise. that being said, all that groovin and swingin doesn't mean much if your music is as unlistenable as DMB. Why do you say Neil can't improvise. Isn't that what he's doing in his instructional videos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Check out his double-pedal work here. I don't know that Neil could do it. http://youtu.be/uftARK21gYQWOW!!!!!!!!!! Carter's a beast. A relaxed beast -- he's blowing bubbles in the middle of a drum solo. :) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReRushed Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 With discussions like this one I always think about what Phil Collins says about Ringo Starr - "I think he's vastly underrated. The drum fills on A Day In The Life are very complex things. You could take a great drummer today and say, 'I want it like that.' They wouldn't know what to do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Carter is an excellent musican who plays in a band with excellent musicians who somehow wind up writing mostly mediocre songs. Neil is an excellent musican who plays in a band with excellent musicians who wind up writing some incredible songs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 (edited) Carter is an excellent musican who plays in a band with excellent musicians who somehow wind up writing mostly mediocre songs. Neil is an excellent musican who plays in a band with excellent musicians who wind up writing some incredible songs.Thousands and thousands of great musicians in this world, only a small percentage of them can write good songs. Edited November 19, 2015 by snowdogged 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Carter is an excellent musican who plays in a band with excellent musicians who somehow wind up writing mostly mediocre songs. Neil is an excellent musican who plays in a band with excellent musicians who wind up writing some incredible songs.Thousands and thousands of great musicians in this world, only a small percentage of them can write good songs.Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 it's not elitism. neil's a very mechanical drummer who can't improvise. that being said, all that groovin and swingin doesn't mean much if your music is as unlistenable as DMB. Why do you say Neil can't improvise. Isn't that what he's doing in his instructional videos? I haven't watched those. I just know his drumming seems very planned out, and he seems to play the same fills at the same moment every single night. nothing wrong with it, it's just how it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBsDWdrums Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 to groove....in many ways you almost have to be a musician to really "get it"... its not an entirely intellectual thing you can read a book about and just understand....you also are better serviced to understand it by listening to a wide variety of styles...its not just about being good with a click track...although that helps for sure....but I have to say in many cases if you plan on working as a drummer and ever find yourself not understanding or wanting to understand it....you are not going to get many gigs. Benny Greb is a great groove drummer who plays far more complex material than Rudd...as mentioned Gavin proved prog CAÑ groove....Alan White for example...stiff non grooving prog... Groove has a nice motion...it makes people want to dance....as much as I love La Villa..its the last song that makes me think...groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReRushed Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 to groove....in many ways you almost have to be a musician to really "get it"... its not an entirely intellectual thing you can read a book about and just understand....you also are better serviced to understand it by listening to a wide variety of styles...its not just about being good with a click track...although that helps for sure....but I have to say in many cases if you plan on working as a drummer and ever find yourself not understanding or wanting to understand it....you are not going to get many gigs. Benny Greb is a great groove drummer who plays far more complex material than Rudd...as mentioned Gavin proved prog CAÑ groove....Alan White for example...stiff non grooving prog... Groove has a nice motion...it makes people want to dance....as much as I love La Villa..its the last song that makes me think...groove.Listening to Porcupine Tree makes you want to dance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 to groove....in many ways you almost have to be a musician to really "get it"... its not an entirely intellectual thing you can read a book about and just understand....you also are better serviced to understand it by listening to a wide variety of styles...its not just about being good with a click track...although that helps for sure....but I have to say in many cases if you plan on working as a drummer and ever find yourself not understanding or wanting to understand it....you are not going to get many gigs. Benny Greb is a great groove drummer who plays far more complex material than Rudd...as mentioned Gavin proved prog CAÑ groove....Alan White for example...stiff non grooving prog... Groove has a nice motion...it makes people want to dance....as much as I love La Villa..its the last song that makes me think...groove.Listening to Porcupine Tree makes you want to dance? Maybe not dance, but you might find yourself bopping your head during some parts. Check this out: http://youtu.be/DaPSvhReVwA Especially check out . That section is in 7/8 (same time sig as the "Hyperspace" section of Natural Science, and the "Monsters" riff from La Villa) -- not a time signature that lends itself to grooving, but Gavin grooves the hell out of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBsDWdrums Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 it makes you want to move to it....which is more than I can say for Alan Whites bland souless playing...PT is a very rhythmically adept band...collectively....they roll right though difficult passages and never lose focus on the groove while doing it.... Vinnie Coliauta with Sting was a groove monster...taking odd times and making em feel even...his drumming never screamed "here's the 7/8 section!...this next part is in 5!!!"...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 it's not elitism. neil's a very mechanical drummer who can't improvise. that being said, all that groovin and swingin doesn't mean much if your music is as unlistenable as DMB. Why do you say Neil can't improvise. Isn't that what he's doing in his instructional videos? I haven't watched those. I just know his drumming seems very planned out, and he seems to play the same fills at the same moment every single night. nothing wrong with it, it's just how it is. Rush seems to think that the fans expect this, I think. I was just reading the latest Canadian Musician magazine, and even there Lee says that they take pride in reproducing the songs as close to the album versions as possible - possibly so all those air drummers can have their moments. But this doesn't suggest that Neil can't improvise. He has changed his approach to composition - he doesn't always work out the parts the way he used to. On the last couple of albums, I got the impression that he went in and, after learning the arrangements, just played. To me that suggests the ability to just feel something, to improvise. Also, if you listen closely, there are sometimes subtle differences in some of the fills. And as he has said in interviews, although his solos always have a certain structure, there are parts that he plays a little differently from show to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now