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Sector 3 vs 90's remasters?


tas7
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  1. 1. SECTOR 3 vs 90's REMASTERS

    • SECTOR 3
      17
    • 90's REMASTERS
      5


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Hadn't listened to Sector 3 remasters for a while but found the sound really dense so I dug out the corresponding 90's remasters of the albums and they sounded much better. I could turn the volume up and dynamically they sounded great. When I did the following with the Sector 3 remasters the sound tends to get clogged and I'm sure there is clipping happening. I preferred the 90's remaster of Power Windows, that brass burst at the beginning of Territories seems condensed on the Sector 3 version. The harmonics from Alex's guitar in Grand Designs appear clearer in the 90's remaster.

A similar thing happens with Signals which I've been listening to a lot lately, I have a remastered version of the Analog Kid on a compilation called Rush Gold and it 'bubbles' along where as the Sector 3 version sounds a bit dense especially in the chorus.

I'm beginning to agree with the suggestion that the Sector 3 remasters have sacrificed dynamic range for volume. I have a decent stereo system, the 90' remasters I can crank up and still hear the separation but the Sector 3 versions seem to become more dense and become irritating, if that's the word, to the ear.

I know this has been discussed before but have a listen and compare, and keep the discussion friendly. It's only in my opinion and I know there are people who think the Sector 3 versions are a lot better.

I have a compilation called Rush - Gold and the songs sound miles better than their Sector versions, looks like it was done by someone called Erick Labson.

Edited by tas7
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Hadn't listened to Sector 3 remasters for a while but found the sound really dense so I dug out the corresponding 90's remasters of the albums and they sounded much better. I could turn the volume up and dynamically they sounded great. When I did the following with the Sector 3 remasters the sound tends to get clogged and I'm sure there is clipping happening. I preferred the 90's remaster of Power Windows, that brass burst at the beginning of Territories seems condensed on the Sector 3 version. The harmonics from Alex's guitar in Grand Designs appear clearer in the 90's remaster.

A similar thing happens with Signals which I've been listening to a lot lately, I have a remastered version of the Analog Kid on a compilation called Rush Gold and it 'bubbles' along where as the Sector 3 version sounds a bit dense especially in the chorus.

I'm beginning to agree with the suggestion that the Sector 3 remasters have sacrificed dynamic range for volume. I have a decent stereo system, the 90' remasters I can crank up and still hear the separation but the Sector 3 versions seem to become more dense and become irritating, if that's the word, to the ear.

I know this has been discussed before but have a listen and compare, and keep the discussion friendly. It's only in my opinion and I know there are people who think the Sector 3 versions are a lot better.

I have a compilation called Rush - Gold and the songs sound miles better than their Sector versions, looks like it was done by someone called Erick Labson.

Total bs, Sectors sets sound fantastic, clean out the mushrooms from your large floppers , or better still, get rid of your K-Tel sound system :facepalm: Edited by canadianice
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So I'll weigh in here...

 

I did some A/B listening of Power Windows between the Sector set and the 90's re-master. Sector set wins by a mile. First off, the re-master is just loud. Almost shrill. The bass seems to be ramped up. More specifically, the mid-bass, which can be deceptive. Geddy's bass lines on the opening verses of "Marathon" sounds like he's using an effect pedal that mimics a kazoo. Those lines sounded much more natural on the Sector version.

 

The Sector version was cleaner sounding with better dynamics, deeper bass (both drums and bass guitar) and the music just seemed to breathe more. Cymbal crashes rang clear and I could hear better decay. Much less fatiguing all around.

 

I will say that the vocals were a bit forward sounding in the soundstage on the Sector version. So the 90's version wins there.

 

Listening was done through an Arcam cd player's digital out to a Musical Fidelity DAC to a Musical Fidelity headphone amp with Nordost Blue Heaven cables powering a pair of Grado SR 80's.

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I've spent the afternoon comparing the Sector 3 remasters and Rush - Gold remaster. The problem to me is the guitars and the mid to high frequencies. Erick Labson on the Gold remaster has a really nice stereo panning so the guitars have space, on the Sector 3 it appears the guitars are coming from one channel so lose that separation and to me personally they are clipping. The guitar on Subdivisions , Gold version, sits nicely on the right channel moving to left whereas the guitar on the Sector 3 version is on the left channel only, disappearing at times. Similar story with the Grace Under Pressure songs, the arpeggio/rhythm guitar in the verse on The Body Electric sounds really crisp and that subtle echo across the speakers just isn't there on the Sector 3 version.

Alex changed his sound on Power Windows and Hold Your Fire. To my ears on the Sector 3 versions, to give more power, the guitar has been over saturated and sounds too dense whereas on Rush - Gold there is a nice stereo image especially with Mission where you have the rhythm chords and lead riff nicely balanced, and the middle section of Time Stand Still is really punchy and jangly.

Give that this compilation wouldn't be classed as a 90's remaster as it was released in 2006, but I see that two compilations called Icon 1 and Icon 2 were done at the same studio; Universal West, so would interesting to hear what those version sound like as they were assembled by a different person.

Edited by tas7
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I've spent the afternoon comparing the Sector 3 remasters and Rush - Gold remaster. The problem to me is the guitars and the mid to high frequencies. Erick Labson on the Gold remaster has a really nice stereo panning so the guitars have space, on the Sector 3 it appears the guitars are coming from one channel so lose that separation and to me personally they are clipping. The guitar on Subdivisions , Gold version, sits nicely on the right channel moving to left whereas the guitar on the Sector 3 version is on the left channel only, disappearing at times. Similar story with the Grace Under Pressure songs, the arpeggio/rhythm guitar in the verse on The Body Electric sounds really crisp and that subtle echo across the speakers just isn't there on the Sector 3 version.

Alex changed his sound on Power Windows and Hold Your Fire. To my ears on the Sector 3 versions, to give more power, the guitar has been over saturated and sounds too dense whereas on Rush - Gold there is a nice stereo image especially with Mission where you have the rhythm chords and lead riff nicely balanced, and the middle section of Time Stand Still is really punchy and jangly.

Give that this compilation wouldn't be classed as a 90's remaster as it was released in 2006, but I see that two compilations called Icon 1 and Icon 2 were done at the same studio; Universal West, so would interesting to hear what those version sound like as they were assembled by a different person.

 

So here's a question. While researching the credits of Erick Labson, he has mastered or remastered many artists but on only the Rush/Gold release is he credited with "Digital Assembly". What the hell is "digital assembly"?

2006 Gold Burt Bacharach Mastering 2006 Gold Tears for Fears Mastering 2006 Gold Poco Mastering 2006 Gold Whitesnake Mastering 2006 Gold Louis Armstrong Digital Remastering 2006 Gold Cinderella Mastering 2006 Gold Scorpions Mastering 2006 Gold [Mercury] Rush Digital Assembly

Edited by mandydog
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Wondering that myself Mandydog, the dynamic ranges of the different albums might have been a problem when putting the compilation together as Power Windows for instance is considerably 'louder' than Signals. The Sectors 3 versions seem to have lost stereo separation somewhere and I personally found some of the songs sounding harsh on the ears for some reason. Having listened to Rush for 35 years there are particular things that have gone missing. Another plus on the Gold compilation is the separation between bass and kick drum.
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So I'll weigh in here...

 

I did some A/B listening of Power Windows between the Sector set and the 90's re-master. Sector set wins by a mile. First off, the re-master is just loud. Almost shrill. The bass seems to be ramped up. More specifically, the mid-bass, which can be deceptive. Geddy's bass lines on the opening verses of "Marathon" sounds like he's using an effect pedal that mimics a kazoo. Those lines sounded much more natural on the Sector version.

 

The Sector version was cleaner sounding with better dynamics, deeper bass (both drums and bass guitar) and the music just seemed to breathe more. Cymbal crashes rang clear and I could hear better decay. Much less fatiguing all around.

 

I will say that the vocals were a bit forward sounding in the soundstage on the Sector version. So the 90's version wins there.

 

Listening was done through an Arcam cd player's digital out to a Musical Fidelity DAC to a Musical Fidelity headphone amp with Nordost Blue Heaven cables powering a pair of Grado SR 80's.

 

I'm listening to the Sector 3 Marathon right now and you are all kinds of right in your assessment. Geddy's bass is borderline funny on the 90s remasters compared to this. The Sector sets are not the best thing in the world when compared to vinyl, but nothing really is among the TOO MANY remasters and re-releases of the catalog, but for digital versions the Sector sets are the ones I go to. I have the HDtracks so that may make a difference. For easy and quick listening on the computer or in the car and on my phone those versions rule.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, nothing beats the MFSL version of Permanent Waves. The vinyl is damn good, but that disc is so good it makes dogs cry.

 

I thought the 90s remasters sounded great at the time. They were loud and clear and the sound was all at about the same level. This was after years of listening on cassette so the clarity and lack of hiss was very welcome, but after the Sector sets came out those might as well be coasters.

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Just compared five, yes five versions of Signals; Original, 90s remaster, Rush-Gold compilation, and Sector 3. The best versions of the songs; Subdivisions, The Analog kid and New World Man are on the Rush - Gold CD where the volume has been increased and the top end boosted a bit. The 90s remaster is clearer than the original maybe all Erick did was boost the volume to compete with the Power Window songs that are much louder but I can thoroughly recommend this compilation. .

I was expecting much more from the Sector 3 version, and to me the DVD stereo version isn't that different to the CD version.

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So I'll weigh in here...

 

I did some A/B listening of Power Windows between the Sector set and the 90's re-master. Sector set wins by a mile. First off, the re-master is just loud. Almost shrill. The bass seems to be ramped up. More specifically, the mid-bass, which can be deceptive. Geddy's bass lines on the opening verses of "Marathon" sounds like he's using an effect pedal that mimics a kazoo. Those lines sounded much more natural on the Sector version.

 

The Sector version was cleaner sounding with better dynamics, deeper bass (both drums and bass guitar) and the music just seemed to breathe more. Cymbal crashes rang clear and I could hear better decay. Much less fatiguing all around.

 

I will say that the vocals were a bit forward sounding in the soundstage on the Sector version. So the 90's version wins there.

 

Listening was done through an Arcam cd player's digital out to a Musical Fidelity DAC to a Musical Fidelity headphone amp with Nordost Blue Heaven cables powering a pair of Grado SR 80's.

 

I'm listening to the Sector 3 Marathon right now and you are all kinds of right in your assessment. Geddy's bass is borderline funny on the 90s remasters compared to this. The Sector sets are not the best thing in the world when compared to vinyl, but nothing really is among the TOO MANY remasters and re-releases of the catalog, but for digital versions the Sector sets are the ones I go to. I have the HDtracks so that may make a difference. For easy and quick listening on the computer or in the car and on my phone those versions rule.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, nothing beats the MFSL version of Permanent Waves. The vinyl is damn good, but that disc is so good it makes dogs cry.

 

I thought the 90s remasters sounded great at the time. They were loud and clear and the sound was all at about the same level. This was after years of listening on cassette so the clarity and lack of hiss was very welcome, but after the Sector sets came out those might as well be coasters.

 

I easily prefer the Sectors discounting vinyl and the Mobile Fidelity and Audio Fidelity releases.

 

However, I really can't tell if the Mobile Fidelity Permanent Waves is a favorite. There's something about it. I'm not sure if it's too bright or the mid range is too muddy. It doesn't sound as warm to me as the other Mobile Fidelity releases and I'm not sure if the original masters were used in this case.

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I compared Territories and the synth brass burst at the beginning is horribly compressed to me on the Sectors version as are some of the synth noises on The Big Money. The harmonics guitar on Grand Designs sounds too dense and there is definitely some clipping on Alex's chorus 'jangly' guitar. To me personally the guitars have been panned differently and have lost that subtle reverb/echo that crosses the channels.
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Another Rush fan from Hobart (well hour out of),Tasmania,weighing in.I have Sector 3 and the 90's remasters except Signals(standard issue).Cambridge,Denon,Rotel,etc gear.I saw Rush Gold in our local import shop but didn't bother with it because it was just another compilation,I wish I had bought it now.I really like the Sector box sets,to these ears everything seems clearer and alive, not compressed,thank god.I a/b Power Windows.I do find the re master a tad shrill.If I can compare Zeps Houses of the Holy,which both on vinyl and 90's re master cd always sounded shrill and toppy.The latest re master is superb with lots of detail and that top end smoother without any loss of dynamics,same for Power Windows.But I would really like to hear Rush Gold for comparison.BTW Page has fiddled about with remastering BBC sessions ,5lp,3cd,box set on the way,groan,will my wallet ever be full.
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Reads like a nerd battle. I lost interest quickly.

There's lots of nerds here in Tasmania ,we have a lot of time on our hands,the pace is nice and slow down here.BTW I have just got rid of my war gaming board games and got into model railroading in a big way.My wife says I need help.

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Reads like a nerd battle. I lost interest quickly.

There's lots of nerds here in Tasmania ,we have a lot of time on our hands,the pace is nice and slow down here.BTW I have just got rid of my war gaming board games and got into model railroading in a big way.My wife says I need help.

Model railroading a gentleman's hobby.

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The Sector boxes beats the 90s remasters by far. Its a huge different in sound quality. The 90s remasters just sound, at least in my ears, that all they have done is raised the volume. While on the sector boxes they have fixed a bit with the instruments, and put them out better.
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Reads like a nerd battle. I lost interest quickly.

There's lots of nerds here in Tasmania ,we have a lot of time on our hands,the pace is nice and slow down here.BTW I have just got rid of my war gaming board games and got into model railroading in a big way.My wife says I need help.

Model railroading a gentleman's hobby.

Don't know about being a nerd. I surf 10 foot waves not sure that's nerdy.
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Reads like a nerd battle. I lost interest quickly.

There's lots of nerds here in Tasmania ,we have a lot of time on our hands,the pace is nice and slow down here.BTW I have just got rid of my war gaming board games and got into model railroading in a big way.My wife says I need help.

 

There are lots of nerds everywhere. No shame there.

 

 

That said.

 

The only good thing about the 90's remasters (Through a Show Of Hands) are the booklets. Those are the only place to find those. I keep toying with the idea of keeping the booklets and selling the 90's remasters without them.

Edited by ytserush
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This is the way to go:

 

The MFSL Gold Cds

 

http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/e/6/rush-2112-mobile-fidelity-gold-w-j-card-audiophile-ultradisc-ii-omr-mfsl-sealed-e62d18c06e4292a4471b674ad007265a.jpg

Edited by Lucas
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This is the way to go:

 

The MFSL Gold Cds

 

http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/e/6/rush-2112-mobile-fidelity-gold-w-j-card-audiophile-ultradisc-ii-omr-mfsl-sealed-e62d18c06e4292a4471b674ad007265a.jpg

 

I have the 4 they made. Outstanding CD's.

 

 

The Sectors Box Set are the best "remasters" to date. I prefer the MSFL Gold 2112, Permanent Waves, and Signals to the sector remasters but like Moving Pictures on the sector box set.

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This is the way to go:

 

The MFSL Gold Cds

 

http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/e/6/rush-2112-mobile-fidelity-gold-w-j-card-audiophile-ultradisc-ii-omr-mfsl-sealed-e62d18c06e4292a4471b674ad007265a.jpg

The problem is the price. Right now on amazon this one is listed at £119 and a used copy is £58 ditto the Moving Pictures one.

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