Test for Echo vs Vapor Trails

[Rhyta]

Ok, I listened to Vapor Trails today and still think it is an underrated album, love the intensity of the music and powerful lyrics. :haz: So after perusing this thread I have listened to TFE and Counterparts since I hadn't played them in a while. Neither of them are very strong over all :sigh: Only songs on each that I like: Driven/Resist and Stick it out/ Leave That Thing Alone. I think another reason I like Vapor Trails so much is the Rush in Rio DVD, the joyous crowd's reaction colored my response to the album. I also like the segment in Beyond the Lighted Stage where it shows Neil driving to a concert on his motorcycle while Secret Touch is playing in the background. :rush: Edited June 21, 2013 by Rhyta

[losingit2k]

Test For Echo is a much better sounding and produced album while the writing in VT is better. Regardless, I think these album are about the same. Test for Echo: TFE, Driven, Half the World, Time & Motion, Resist and Limbo. Vapor Trails: One Little Victory, Secret Touch, Earth Shine, Vapor Trails, Ghost Rider, and Sweet Miracle. So basically Test For Echo wins by the margin of Production. At least you can listen to it. :codger:

Make a 2 hour setlist using those 2 albums and 7 songs from any of the other albums....but 1 rule: you can't use all of 2112 or Hemispheres

Too Easy! :P

[Sin City]

As asked a few pages ago, does anyone from the UK rate Counterparts, as I've never read or seen a positive view of that record over here?? Too many circular arguments here and other albums being brought into the debate that were not part of the OP's poll.

[gangsterfurious]

I love Vapor Trails so much. It was the first album I listened to all the way though but my gawds I wish they'd get that thing re-mastered.

[Retrospective]

As asked a few pages ago, does anyone from the UK rate Counterparts, as I've never read or seen a positive view of that record over here?? Too many circular arguments here and other albums being brought into the debate that were not part of the OP's poll.

 

Not sure why you're talking about Counterparts on a Test for Echo/Vapor Trails thread, then...

 

I personally have no problem, but according to your post, you do.

[lifeson90]

Im from the uk and i hardly listen to counterparts these days for one reason being that i loved the album so much on release and played it so much for a couple years after that i just became over-familiar with it, so much so that the counterparts sound even seems a bit dated to me as i associate it so much with those years.

 

After RTB i was just tremendously energised with the sheer energy and power of the guys sound on counterparts, was like the band was back harder stronger and faster and i loved it as much as first discovering 2112 AFTK hemispheres and permanent waves it was literally too awesome for words and i remember my feelings about it passionately.

 

Like geds bass in alien shore was an utter revelation, hard rock rush meets disco and Al lettin rip in cut to the chase mann they were the days and cold fire literally bring me to tears with the hard raw emotion of it

 

These days i love TFE but at the time i wasnt as impressed until the glorious vapor trails came along to turn things up yet another notch we been seriously spoilt by this great great band.

[xmac]

I am new to the forum so bare with me !

 

Of all the albums, T4E is easily the most forgettable for me. Lyrically its pretty bad - not much going on musically. Regarding the OP, I believe VT to be a much better album - there are a few great tracks on there which are so much more memorable to me than T4E. Dog years? Ugh. Virtuality? Ugh.

 

OH...I also think that CP is def one of their best - Top 7 for me.

Edited June 22, 2013 by xmac

[ShlappinDahBass]

I am new to the forum so bare with me !

 

Of all the albums, T4E is easily the most forgettable for me. Lyrically its pretty bad - not much going on musically. Regarding the OP, I believe VT to be a much better album - there are a few great tracks on there which are so much more memorable to me than T4E. Dog years? Ugh. Virtuality? Ugh.

 

OH...I also think that CP is def one of their best - Top 7 for me.

 

I like this guy!

 

Welcome to the forum! :sundog:

[coventry]

I think you have to consider the contexts of each album.

 

VT is Neil's grief expression, his bildungsroman of sorrow and pain and escape, questioning, and tentative rebirth. As such, it's going to be a dark, somewhat inaccessible album because it's so personal. There're highlights, of course - the choruses of 'Ghost Rider" (and I love the many meanings and ambiguities of that title!) and 'Ceiling Unlimited', the sheer dominance of 'Freeze', the musicality of "Stars...". But like the production, it can be a muddled and difficult album. Still, it was prety refreshing when it came out.

 

T4E seems to be Neil grasping at something to write about. After the dominant themes of the last two albums (chance in RTB and opposition in CP), clutching at the straws of the emerging dot com zeitgeist seems weak and naive in retrospect. There are some musical highlights here - "Driven', 'Totem', the title track, but much of the lyrics are cliche at best and downright blah much of the time. It's an album I really can't remember when I listened to last or when I'll listen to again.

[micgtr71]

I am going to be completely honest...both albums were exciting when they came out and neither get regular spins from me. I think there are some great songs on both albums and some not so exciting songs on each. Both albums were mixed for cd so they sound harsher than what I would like. VT is worse, but there are no songs on it as difficult to enjoy as Dog Years. For that alone, my vote goes to VT over T4E.

[presto123]

I love Vapor Trails so much. It was the first album I listened to all the way though but my gawds I wish they'd get that thing re-mastered.

 

They did. It's they HD tracks (I tunes) thing for 2013. That Andy (forget his last name) guy spent 4 days on VT alone so it's probably about as good as it's going to get without re-recording the whole record. The samples I heard sound waaay better.

[LedRush]

I love Vapor Trails so much. It was the first album I listened to all the way though but my gawds I wish they'd get that thing re-mastered.

 

They did. It's they HD tracks (I tunes) thing for 2013. That Andy (forget his last name) guy spent 4 days on VT alone so it's probably about as good as it's going to get without re-recording the whole record. The samples I heard sound waaay better.

A remix will help (did you listen to the Retrospective remixes), but the HDTracks remasters are an improvement, even when whittled down to iTunes playable levels. But I can't wait for the day that the remix comes out.

[LedRush]

I think you have to consider the contexts of each album.

 

VT is Neil's grief expression, his bildungsroman of sorrow and pain and escape, questioning, and tentative rebirth. As such, it's going to be a dark, somewhat inaccessible album because it's so personal. There're highlights, of course - the choruses of 'Ghost Rider" (and I love the many meanings and ambiguities of that title!) and 'Ceiling Unlimited', the sheer dominance of 'Freeze', the musicality of "Stars...". But like the production, it can be a muddled and difficult album. Still, it was prety refreshing when it came out.

 

T4E seems to be Neil grasping at something to write about. After the dominant themes of the last two albums (chance in RTB and opposition in CP), clutching at the straws of the emerging dot com zeitgeist seems weak and naive in retrospect. There are some musical highlights here - "Driven', 'Totem', the title track, but much of the lyrics are cliche at best and downright blah much of the time. It's an album I really can't remember when I listened to last or when I'll listen to again.

 

T4E isn't Neil grasping at something to write about, it is Neil describing a society which is grasping at something to care about. That's why I think the lyrics work so well and were such a refreshing change from the previous album.

[rushgoober]

I think you have to consider the contexts of each album.

 

VT is Neil's grief expression, his bildungsroman of sorrow and pain and escape, questioning, and tentative rebirth. As such, it's going to be a dark, somewhat inaccessible album because it's so personal. There're highlights, of course - the choruses of 'Ghost Rider" (and I love the many meanings and ambiguities of that title!) and 'Ceiling Unlimited', the sheer dominance of 'Freeze', the musicality of "Stars...". But like the production, it can be a muddled and difficult album. Still, it was prety refreshing when it came out.

 

T4E seems to be Neil grasping at something to write about. After the dominant themes of the last two albums (chance in RTB and opposition in CP), clutching at the straws of the emerging dot com zeitgeist seems weak and naive in retrospect. There are some musical highlights here - "Driven', 'Totem', the title track, but much of the lyrics are cliche at best and downright blah much of the time. It's an album I really can't remember when I listened to last or when I'll listen to again.

 

T4E isn't Neil grasping at something to write about, it is Neil describing a society which is grasping at something to care about. That's why I think the lyrics work so well

 

Yikes!

 

From Test For Echo:

 

Camera curves over caved-in cop cars

Bleacher-creatures, would-be desperados

 

Tough-talking hood boys in pro-team logo knock-offs

Conform to uniforms of some corporate entity

Don't change that station

It's Gangster Nation

 

Nail-biting hood boys in borrowed ties and jackets

Clutching at the straws of respectability

Can't do the time?

Don't do the crime

And wind up in the perp walk on TV

 

From Virtuality:

 

I can see the footprints in the virtual sand

 

Net boy, net girl

Send your signal 'round the world

Let your fingers walk and talk

And set you free

 

Net boy, net girl

Send your impulse 'round the world

Put your message in a modem

And throw it in the Cyber Sea

 

Let's dance tonight

To a virtual song

Press this key

And you can play along

 

Let's fly tonight

On our virtual wings

Press this key

To see amazing things

 

I can smell her perfume, I can taste her lips

I can feel the voltage from her fingertips

 

Net boy, net girl

Send your heartbeat round the world

 

From Dog Years:

 

In a dog's life

A year is really more like seven

And all too soon a canine

Will be chasing cars in doggie heaven

 

Dog years - It's the season of the itch

Dog years - With every scratch it reappears

Dog years - For every sad son of a bitch

Dog years - With his tail between his ears

 

I'd rather be a tortoise from Galapagos

Or a span of geological time

Than be living in these dog years

 

In a dog's brain

A constant buzz of low-level static

One sniff at the hydrant

And the answer is automatic

 

From Totem:

 

I've got twelve disciples and a Buddha smile

The Garden of Allah, Viking Valhalla

A miracle once in a while

 

I've got a pantheon of animals in a pagan soul

Vishnu and Gaia - Aztec and Maya

Dance around my totem pole

 

I've got idols and icons, unspoken holy vows

Thoughts to keep well-hidden -

Sacred and forbidden

Free to browse among the holy cows

Edited June 22, 2013 by rushgoober

[OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan]

VT way over T4E.

 

T4E has some good riffs and quite a few good parts in songs, but not any really good songs...as a matter of fact it has mostly bad songs with a few good parts. I find it to be the single biggest disappointment I've ever had a RUSH fan.

[coventry]

I think you have to consider the contexts of each album.

 

VT is Neil's grief expression, his bildungsroman of sorrow and pain and escape, questioning, and tentative rebirth. As such, it's going to be a dark, somewhat inaccessible album because it's so personal. There're highlights, of course - the choruses of 'Ghost Rider" (and I love the many meanings and ambiguities of that title!) and 'Ceiling Unlimited', the sheer dominance of 'Freeze', the musicality of "Stars...". But like the production, it can be a muddled and difficult album. Still, it was prety refreshing when it came out.

 

T4E seems to be Neil grasping at something to write about. After the dominant themes of the last two albums (chance in RTB and opposition in CP), clutching at the straws of the emerging dot com zeitgeist seems weak and naive in retrospect. There are some musical highlights here - "Driven', 'Totem', the title track, but much of the lyrics are cliche at best and downright blah much of the time. It's an album I really can't remember when I listened to last or when I'll listen to again.

 

T4E isn't Neil grasping at something to write about, it is Neil describing a society which is grasping at something to care about. That's why I think the lyrics work so well and were such a refreshing change from the previous album.

 

Wow. T4E an improvement over CP? Whatchu talking about, Willis?

 

But besides that, and as Rushgoober points out above, some of these lyrics are simply insipid attempts at depth and social commenary - but there's nothing specific. I mean, how much interaction with and knowledge of "tough talking hood boys" did Neil EVER have? Or the forced and stale time metaphor in "Dog Years" - which is really nothing more than a weak rehash of "Time Stand Still"?

 

At this point, before the tragedies, the only totem pole Neil was dancing around was his own.

[lifeson90]

I love dog years.. One of the bands finest actually

[LedRush]

I think you have to consider the contexts of each album.

 

VT is Neil's grief expression, his bildungsroman of sorrow and pain and escape, questioning, and tentative rebirth. As such, it's going to be a dark, somewhat inaccessible album because it's so personal. There're highlights, of course - the choruses of 'Ghost Rider" (and I love the many meanings and ambiguities of that title!) and 'Ceiling Unlimited', the sheer dominance of 'Freeze', the musicality of "Stars...". But like the production, it can be a muddled and difficult album. Still, it was prety refreshing when it came out.

 

T4E seems to be Neil grasping at something to write about. After the dominant themes of the last two albums (chance in RTB and opposition in CP), clutching at the straws of the emerging dot com zeitgeist seems weak and naive in retrospect. There are some musical highlights here - "Driven', 'Totem', the title track, but much of the lyrics are cliche at best and downright blah much of the time. It's an album I really can't remember when I listened to last or when I'll listen to again.

 

T4E isn't Neil grasping at something to write about, it is Neil describing a society which is grasping at something to care about. That's why I think the lyrics work so well and were such a refreshing change from the previous album.

 

Wow. T4E an improvement over CP? Whatchu talking about, Willis?

 

But besides that, and as Rushgoober points out above, some of these lyrics are simply insipid attempts at depth and social commenary - but there's nothing specific. I mean, how much interaction with and knowledge of "tough talking hood boys" did Neil EVER have? Or the forced and stale time metaphor in "Dog Years" - which is really nothing more than a weak rehash of "Time Stand Still"?

 

At this point, before the tragedies, the only totem pole Neil was dancing around was his own.

 

I like those lyrics. Stronger than most of CP, except maybe Animate and Nobody's Hero. I won't quote CP lyrics as I don't want to induce too much vomalaughing (when you laugh and vomit at the same time).

[circumstantial tree]

I like Counterparts better that T4E, which isn't saying much because I was never overly thrilled with CP either, but it has grown on me in recent years. Test for Echo, however, have never grown on me.

[coventry]

Vomalaugh - kind of like a "chucklespew".

[ShlappinDahBass]

I love dog years.. One of the bands finest actually

 

I uh....what.

[OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan]

I like Counterparts better that T4E, which isn't saying much because I was never overly thrilled with CP either, but it has grown on me in recent years. Test for Echo, however, have never grown on me.

 

I agree and feel the same way.

[Sin City]

As asked a few pages ago, does anyone from the UK rate Counterparts, as I've never read or seen a positive view of that record over here?? Too many circular arguments here and other albums being brought into the debate that were not part of the OP's poll.

 

Not sure why you're talking about Counterparts on a Test for Echo/Vapor Trails thread, then...

 

I personally have no problem, but according to your post, you do.

 

1) Several posters have mentioned counterparts in this thread as well as other albums that aren't strictly part of the OP's question which I addressed in my original post so I'm unsure why my post has been singled out?

 

2) I have no problem with Counterparts other than it's a very well recorded and very good sounding turd of a record bereft of most of the things that make Rush the band they are.

 

3) It seems that you have a problem and struggle to cope with somebody having a different perspective on what I truly consider to be one of the worst albums the band recorded. Speed of love? Alien Shore? Stick it Out?

 

4) British fans liking this record- it's an honest question as I have yet to find a british fan of this one. Perhaps our B/S detectors our more highly attuned over here to this kind of thing? :poke:

[Retrospective]

As asked a few pages ago, does anyone from the UK rate Counterparts, as I've never read or seen a positive view of that record over here?? Too many circular arguments here and other albums being brought into the debate that were not part of the OP's poll.

 

Not sure why you're talking about Counterparts on a Test for Echo/Vapor Trails thread, then...

 

I personally have no problem, but according to your post, you do.

 

1) Several posters have mentioned counterparts in this thread as well as other albums that aren't strictly part of the OP's question which I addressed in my original post so I'm unsure why my post has been singled out?

 

2) I have no problem with Counterparts other than it's a very well recorded and very good sounding turd of a record bereft of most of the things that make Rush the band they are.

 

3) It seems that you have a problem and struggle to cope with somebody having a different perspective on what I truly consider to be one of the worst albums the band recorded. Speed of love? Alien Shore? Stick it Out?

 

4) British fans liking this record- it's an honest question as I have yet to find a british fan of this one. Perhaps our B/S detectors our more highly attuned over here to this kind of thing? :poke:

 

I... What? I was just saying that you were contradicting yourself.

 

I also said I have no problem with CP talk.

 

Which is what I said. In my post.

 

That's it. I'm not "struggling" with anything.. And I'm not attacking you.

[ShlappinDahBass]

As asked a few pages ago, does anyone from the UK rate Counterparts, as I've never read or seen a positive view of that record over here?? Too many circular arguments here and other albums being brought into the debate that were not part of the OP's poll.

 

Not sure why you're talking about Counterparts on a Test for Echo/Vapor Trails thread, then...

 

I personally have no problem, but according to your post, you do.

 

1) Several posters have mentioned counterparts in this thread as well as other albums that aren't strictly part of the OP's question which I addressed in my original post so I'm unsure why my post has been singled out?

 

2) I have no problem with Counterparts other than it's a very well recorded and very good sounding turd of a record bereft of most of the things that make Rush the band they are.

 

3) It seems that you have a problem and struggle to cope with somebody having a different perspective on what I truly consider to be one of the worst albums the band recorded. Speed of love? Alien Shore? Stick it Out?

 

4) British fans liking this record- it's an honest question as I have yet to find a british fan of this one. Perhaps our B/S detectors our more highly attuned over here to this kind of thing? :poke:

 

I... What? I was just saying that you were contradicting yourself.

 

I also said I have no problem with CP talk.

 

Which is what I said. In my post.

 

That's it. I'm not "struggling" with anything.. And I'm not attacking you.

 

Yeah. Got a bit on the defensive side randomly. lol