Xanadoood Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Am I the only one who had never heard this term before all the mention of it on here? I've mentioned it to a few other Rush friends who also happen to be musicians , and they think you're all insane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYM86 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Agreed...Rush lyrics can't be easy to sing, but Geddy does an excellent job making them flow. Complete non-issue to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Edited July 5, 2012 by GeddyRulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nappy2112 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 They were invented on the Hemispheres album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Pilgrim Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I had never heard that term before coming here either, but I still understood exactly what was meant when I heard it. Rush lyrics at least from the 90's forward often feel awkward to me on the first listen. But usually after a couple of listens I will "get" the melody or rythym and the songs begin to work for me. An extreme example (for me anyway) was The Larger Bowl. The first dozen or more times I listened to SnA I would skip this one after a minute every time, I just couldn't force myself to listen to it, it felt awkwaard and forced. Then one time it came up on random shuffle while I was half listening at work and it just suddenly clicked, I "got" the melody and it no longer sounded "off" to me. Now its one of my favorites from SnA. My wife says that it often sounds like he needed one more word, or had one to many, in the verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenken Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Ive been hearing this term for various bands over the last 10 years or so. It's brought up a LOT on songwriter boards. Most fans of bands would never recognize it. It's mostly just writers that notice if something sounds odd, if a word is strung out over too many syllables, or a word with too many syllables squeezed into not enough space. It happens a lot with Rush since the vocalist isnt writing the lyrics. An example is Larger Bowl, "While others see only the wooorrrrhhhohhhurhurhurst". If he had 3 or 4 more words there it wouldn sound better to me. Right now it just sounds weird. Usually it's not that bad because he works with Neil to try and make it all fit but sometimes it's very glaring. Many writers do it to extent and its not a problem unless it's something that really sticks out. Edited July 6, 2012 by trenken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYM86 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 QUOTE (trenken @ Jul 5 2012, 09:58 PM) Ive been hearing this term for various bands over the last 10 years or so. It's brought up a LOT on songwriter boards. Most fans of bands would never recognize it. It's mostly just writers that notice if something sounds odd, if a word is strung out over too many syllables, or a word with too many syllables squeezed into not enough space. It happens a lot with Rush since the vocalist isnt writing the lyrics. An example is Larger Bowl, "While others see only the wooorrrrhhhohhhurhurhurst". If he had 3 or 4 more words there it wouldn sound better to me. Right now it just sounds weird. Usually it's not that bad because he works with Neil to try and make it all fit but sometimes it's very glaring. Many writers do it to extent and its not a problem unless it's something that really sticks out. I don't get it. Do you think every line of every song has to have a 1-for-1 syllable-to-note ratio? Have you ever heard of something called melismatic singing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenken Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 QUOTE (NYM86 @ Jul 5 2012, 10:00 PM) QUOTE (trenken @ Jul 5 2012, 09:58 PM) Ive been hearing this term for various bands over the last 10 years or so. It's brought up a LOT on songwriter boards. Most fans of bands would never recognize it. It's mostly just writers that notice if something sounds odd, if a word is strung out over too many syllables, or a word with too many syllables squeezed into not enough space. It happens a lot with Rush since the vocalist isnt writing the lyrics. An example is Larger Bowl, "While others see only the wooorrrrhhhohhhurhurhurst". If he had 3 or 4 more words there it wouldn sound better to me. Right now it just sounds weird. Usually it's not that bad because he works with Neil to try and make it all fit but sometimes it's very glaring. Many writers do it to extent and its not a problem unless it's something that really sticks out. I don't get it. Do you think every line of every song has to have a 1-for-1 syllable-to-note ratio? Have you ever heard of something called melismatic singing? Who said every syllable has to be perfect? Im pretty sure I didnt say that. Every band stretches words out, but a 1 syllable work stretched to 7 like 'worst' in Larger Bowl sounds ridiculous. If you think that sounds good... I dont even know what to say to that. You dont usually hear singers pushing it that far, and its because they're writing their own lyrics. I remember an SNL skit making fun of Rihanna's song Umbrella when she stretches that out to sound like Umberella. Yeah, they made fun of a singer adding 1 syllable. Could you imagine if Larger Bowl became popular what people would do to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Actually this is the first album I've heard being accused of "shoehorning" or sometimes I've heard "cowbarring". I guess there are couple places where Geddy has to do some creative "squeezing" to get the words to fit his melody, but I don't give a crap. It sounds great. He took something difficult to make word, and made it work. I can understand people noticing it, but not complaining about it as there is nothing to complain about. You guys want shoehorning....Listen to Eminem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. P. L. Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 What do shoes and horns have to do with Rush lyrics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakly Criminal Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 This is RUSH so we overanylize everything. It's what RUSH fans do. Try to relax and just enjoy the album. If you like it fine, if you don't, fine. It's a freaking rock album people. Get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclonus X-1 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 What I don't understand is why anyone would act like this is an issue only on the recent records. Instances of shoehorning can be found up and down the entire Rush catalog. One of the most blatant examples of cramming is the "bookstore shelves" line in Witch Hunt. That's much more noticeable and jarring to me than any of the syllable stretching in The Larger Bowl or The Color of Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 QUOTE (Cyclonus X-1 @ Jul 6 2012, 05:04 AM) What I don't understand is why anyone would act like this is an issue only on the recent records. Instances of shoehorning can be found up and down the entire Rush catalog. One of the most blatant examples of cramming is the "bookstore shelves" line in Witch Hunt. That's much more noticeable and jarring to me than any of the syllable stretching in The Larger Bowl or The Color of Right. Good point. Let's face it, we're far more forgiving on albums we really like...(and that includes MP as well as fans of S&A). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangster of Goats Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Want some syllable stretching? Just listen to just about any gospel or R&B singer. Talk about stretching a 2-syllable word into 17. (But then again, over the top "vocal wankery" like that is part of the musical style...) BTW, "Anthem"... talk about cramming! I expect to hear Ged gasp for breath at the end of each line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gompers Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Heh...it's what Rush does. Not a problem to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 6 2012, 06:22 AM) Heh...it's what Rush does. Not a problem to me. I agree, but it's a bit unfair (and worth noting) when fans give older songs a pass for doing the same kind of things they're criticizing in more modern Rush songs, but what else is new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) The fact remains, any time you have someone else write words for the singer, this is bound to happen...even with reworking lyrics after the fact to fit a melody. For instance, Bernie Taupin wrote great lyrics for Elton, but they were often a mouthful too. Mostly -- and most importantly -- they were just beautiful prose, but they could often tie the tongue. Edited July 6, 2012 by Presto-digitation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gompers Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jul 6 2012, 07:24 AM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 6 2012, 06:22 AM) Heh...it's what Rush does. Not a problem to me. I agree, but it's a bit unfair (and worth noting) when fans give older songs a pass for doing the same kind of things they're criticizing in more modern Rush songs, but what else is new? Well, it is easy to do if you are not a fan of the new material. This technique is nothing new but it surprises me long time fans would now make issue of it. If they do to new songs, they should also criticize old songs guilty of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 6 2012, 06:28 AM) QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jul 6 2012, 07:24 AM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 6 2012, 06:22 AM) Heh...it's what Rush does. Not a problem to me. I agree, but it's a bit unfair (and worth noting) when fans give older songs a pass for doing the same kind of things they're criticizing in more modern Rush songs, but what else is new? Well, it is easy to do if you are not a fan of the new material. This technique is nothing new but it surprises me long time fans would now make issue of it. If they do to new songs, they should also criticize old songs guilty of it. Agree with both comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYM86 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 QUOTE (Weakly Criminal @ Jul 6 2012, 04:50 AM) This is RUSH so we overanylize everything. It's what RUSH fans do. Try to relax and just enjoy the album. If you like it fine, if you don't, fine. It's a freaking rock album people. Get a grip. Everyone seems pretty calm to me. You "get a grip." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 QUOTE (NYM86 @ Jul 5 2012, 07:18 PM) Agreed...Rush lyrics can't be easy to sing, but Geddy does an excellent job making them flow. Complete non-issue to me. As a singer, my band used to preform Dreamline, and The Spirit Of Radio. I never found either one particularly hard to sing. Actually after performing Dreamline as many times as we did, I grew to dislike the song. Years later, I still do. I was never foolish enough to choose to cover a song like No On At The Bridge. Now that's one I would probably only want to do once. I could do it, but I would need to recover afterwords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babycat Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The only 'shoehorned' I know of is when you try to get your feet into your boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 QUOTE (Babycat @ Jul 6 2012, 07:13 AM) The only 'shoehorned' I know of is when you try to get your feet into your boots. "riiight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khan Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Yippee...something else to bitch about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sawyer Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 You have never heard shoehorned lyrics until you have heard Van der Graaf Generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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