van Halen practicing at the Roxy in Hollywood

[the masked drummer]

I guess after reading Sammy's book, "Red", I got inside the mind of sam and his experience with vh, and he comes off as being very honest about what really took place behind the scenes. It wasn't his goal to bash the brothers but he paints an ugly picture of power abuse, substance abuse, band member abuse and nepotism.

 

In the book Sammy suggests Ed needs to trust his fellow bandmates, because the distrust and control-freakish methods of ed and al have always been a hinderence to vh and has cost them several band members...

[Rod in Toronto]

QUOTE (the masked drummer @ Jan 4 2012, 07:45 AM)

I guess after reading Sammy's book, "Red", I got inside the mind of sam and his experience with vh, and he comes off as being very honest about what really took place behind the scenes. It wasn't his goal to bash the brothers but he paints an ugly picture of power abuse, substance abuse, band member abuse and nepotism. In the book Sammy suggests Ed needs to trust his fellow bandmates, because the distrust and control-freakish methods of ed and al have always been a hinderence to vh and has cost them several band members...

I read Sammy's book too, and agree with most of what he's saying. What annoys me in his book is that he never admits to being wrong in ANY situation, in any discussion within whatever band he's playing with, or any relationship. But overall it's a good read, and I can imagine how scary it was to be in the same band as Eddie a couple of times, especially in the 2004 reunion...

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (ghostworks @ Jan 3 2012, 11:39 AM)

I wasn't comparing Jon with Mike whatsoever (remember that word 'principle', fellas?) apparently not

I hope I didn't make you feel bad with my response to you. You called me shallow and I was defending my point of view. It doesn't mean I don't respect your point of view on the band, and doesn't effect that I still like you as a person!

 

P.S. - please respond to my post on the ambient thread where I list my all-time fave ambient albums and ask others (*cough* ahem *cough*) to do the same...

[the masked drummer]

QUOTE (RodrigoAltaf @ Jan 4 2012, 08:15 AM)

QUOTE (the masked drummer @ Jan 4 2012, 07:45 AM) I guess after reading Sammy's book, "Red", I got inside the mind of sam and his experience with vh, and he comes off as being very honest about what really took place behind the scenes.  It wasn't his goal to bash the brothers but he paints an ugly picture of power abuse, substance abuse, band member abuse and nepotism.  In the book Sammy suggests Ed needs to trust his fellow bandmates, because the distrust and control-freakish methods of ed and al have always been a hinderence to vh and has cost them several band members... I read Sammy's book too, and agree with most of what he's saying. What annoys me in his book is that he never admits to being wrong in ANY situation, in any discussion within whatever band he's playing with, or any relationship. But overall it's a good read, and I can imagine how scary it was to be in the same band as Eddie a couple of times, especially in the 2004 reunion... That is a good point. It would have been a little better had he admitted to doing more than just a few bumps of cocaine or puffs of weed. Even if he made up an imbellished or exxagerated story that he was wrong once woulda made him seem more human.

[Presto-digitation]

Edward seems to get along with no one when your name isn't "_____ Van Halen." Sad-but-true. I get that Dave is abbrasive and has his own issues, as does Sammy. But the common link in VH in-fighting is Eddie, who seems bitter and self-destructive and a total control freak, which, to me, is harder to deal with than mere ego. I love the guy, but I wouldn't want to work with him. And the one guy he DID seem to get along with, Gary Cherone, offered no real chemistry and we saw the result of that collaboration.

 

I think some tension in a band is good. Or it can be good, at least.

 

It has to be Sammy or Dave at this point and Eddie knows this. Time to be grown up men, not sulking, hermiting druggies. Bury the hatchet somewhere other than in each other's skulls. Maybe before it's too late Wolfie will decide he doesn't want to do this any more and Edward can play grown-up with Michael too and we can get the full nine yards here.

 

In the meantime, I'm pleased to have 3/4 of the original Van Halen at least playing nice, making a new record, and touring. As it should be. Sitting at home making mad music that no one ever hears accomplishes nothing.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Presto-digitation

[GeddyLeeRoth]

Anyway, WHERE ARE THE DAMN DATES THEY SAID WOULD BE ANNOUNCED 1/3????

[metaldad]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 3 2012, 04:56 PM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 3 2012, 02:16 PM) QUOTE (HemispheresserehpsimeH @ Jan 3 2012, 01:13 PM) I'd rather have Roth back with an actual album coming out than have Mike still in the band with them on an indefinite hiatus. or Sammy in the band for that matter   Meh...whatever. Sammy will always get the shit thrown at him. But people fail to realize that Eddie and Alex run the band. They always have. Isn't that an obvious fact?! It's fine that people hate the Van Hagar era, but they need to realize that it's far from being simply "Sammy's fault". I'm sure the music was all primarily written by Eddie anyways. Simple as that.   If the VH brothers don't like something, it won't be on an album. This is fact...even during the Hagar years. They are the alpha and omega of the group. Why do you think that everyone that has ever joined the band has been kicked out besides those two?   The DLR era WAS amazing. Yes...absolutely classic. BUT...it was not simply due to DLR and his awesomeness. They were simply a band kicking ass and making outstanding albums, one after another. It's no different than Rush with AFTK-MP. It's their 'golden era'. Rush hasn't changed their lineup, and yet people still look at their post Signals stuff as not reaching that same level. The majority of the DLR era IS their 'golden era'. Simple as that.   Personally, I like most of the Van Hagar material. But isn't it possible that VH was simply running out of gas at that time, and essentially a band on the decline because of Eddie? I think so.   Don't get me wrong though. Do I hope that the new VH album is great? Absolutely...hell yeah. I would love to hear an awesome album from them...followed by a fantastic tour. Saw them in 2007 and loved it.   I'm just saying...despite popular belief, Sammy was FAR from being the problem with the band. I got ya agian huh ? My main problem with Sammy was the Live shows, No V.H. songs from the Dave era. How do you put on a 2 and a half hour show when you have 1 album out [ 5150] and Not do Dave era songs ? Lame

[the masked drummer]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 10:36 AM)

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 3 2012, 04:56 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 3 2012, 02:16 PM) QUOTE (HemispheresserehpsimeH @ Jan 3 2012, 01:13 PM) I'd rather have Roth back with an actual album coming out than have Mike still in the band with them on an indefinite hiatus. or Sammy in the band for that matter   Meh...whatever. Sammy will always get the shit thrown at him. But people fail to realize that Eddie and Alex run the band. They always have. Isn't that an obvious fact?! It's fine that people hate the Van Hagar era, but they need to realize that it's far from being simply "Sammy's fault". I'm sure the music was all primarily written by Eddie anyways. Simple as that.   If the VH brothers don't like something, it won't be on an album. This is fact...even during the Hagar years. They are the alpha and omega of the group. Why do you think that everyone that has ever joined the band has been kicked out besides those two?   The DLR era WAS amazing. Yes...absolutely classic. BUT...it was not simply due to DLR and his awesomeness. They were simply a band kicking ass and making outstanding albums, one after another. It's no different than Rush with AFTK-MP. It's their 'golden era'. Rush hasn't changed their lineup, and yet people still look at their post Signals stuff as not reaching that same level. The majority of the DLR era IS their 'golden era'. Simple as that.   Personally, I like most of the Van Hagar material. But isn't it possible that VH was simply running out of gas at that time, and essentially a band on the decline because of Eddie? I think so.   Don't get me wrong though. Do I hope that the new VH album is great? Absolutely...hell yeah. I would love to hear an awesome album from them...followed by a fantastic tour. Saw them in 2007 and loved it.   I'm just saying...despite popular belief, Sammy was FAR from being the problem with the band. I got ya agian huh ? My main problem with Sammy was the Live shows, No V.H. songs from the Dave era. How do you put on a 2 and a half hour show when you have 1 album out [ 5150] and Not do Dave era songs ? Lame Same here. I saw vh once, only on the 2004 tour, and was a bit of a let down. I'm old school. I loved the 1984 album, the first two albums and a lot in between those. Despite their wildly commercial success sammy brought, those years didn't exactly thrill me. So, I am looking forward to see the roth-era show. If Wolfie sucks at lip syncing, my review of the detroit stop will be brutal. We'll see...

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 11:36 AM)

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 3 2012, 04:56 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 3 2012, 02:16 PM) QUOTE (HemispheresserehpsimeH @ Jan 3 2012, 01:13 PM) I'd rather have Roth back with an actual album coming out than have Mike still in the band with them on an indefinite hiatus. or Sammy in the band for that matter   Meh...whatever. Sammy will always get the shit thrown at him. But people fail to realize that Eddie and Alex run the band. They always have. Isn't that an obvious fact?! It's fine that people hate the Van Hagar era, but they need to realize that it's far from being simply "Sammy's fault". I'm sure the music was all primarily written by Eddie anyways. Simple as that.   If the VH brothers don't like something, it won't be on an album. This is fact...even during the Hagar years. They are the alpha and omega of the group. Why do you think that everyone that has ever joined the band has been kicked out besides those two?   The DLR era WAS amazing. Yes...absolutely classic. BUT...it was not simply due to DLR and his awesomeness. They were simply a band kicking ass and making outstanding albums, one after another. It's no different than Rush with AFTK-MP. It's their 'golden era'. Rush hasn't changed their lineup, and yet people still look at their post Signals stuff as not reaching that same level. The majority of the DLR era IS their 'golden era'. Simple as that.   Personally, I like most of the Van Hagar material. But isn't it possible that VH was simply running out of gas at that time, and essentially a band on the decline because of Eddie? I think so.   Don't get me wrong though. Do I hope that the new VH album is great? Absolutely...hell yeah. I would love to hear an awesome album from them...followed by a fantastic tour. Saw them in 2007 and loved it.   I'm just saying...despite popular belief, Sammy was FAR from being the problem with the band. I got ya agian huh ? My main problem with Sammy was the Live shows, No V.H. songs from the Dave era. How do you put on a 2 and a half hour show when you have 1 album out [ 5150] and Not do Dave era songs ? Lame   No...you didn't get me! I just hate the way Sammy gets thrown under the bus for the 'Van Hagar' era when we all know that Eddie and Alex ran the show the entire time. I remember reading many articles regarding the recording sessions for 'Carnal Knowledge' where Sam was already getting frustrated because he had to keep re-recording vocals at Eddie's command. My point? The VH brothers were in charge of what showed up on the Hagar records.   I absolutely agree with you 100% on the live thing. They are BOTH guilty of this. In 2004, Hagar and Co. only played around 3 DLR-era songs I believe, and in 2007, the DLR group played ZERO Hagar tunes.   Again...this is the shit that I always hated about this band. It's all just part of the EGO trip system that VH has always been about.   Another example? I know to many this won't be a big deal anyways, but when VH brought out their Guitar Hero game awhile back...there was 1) NO Sammy or Michael in the game, and 2) NO Hagar-era tracks at all.   Seriously? I'm sorry, but you simply cannot ignore the history of the band (though I might make the exception for the Cherone era! LOL). For better or worse, Sammy was there for 4 albums, and released some huge hits that will forever be part of the VH legacy.   This is the thing that has always bothered me about VH. Here you have amazing talented guys, who were able to put out tons of solid / classic material, and they cannot get over themselves, and I honestly feel that in the long run, it has hurt their credibility alot.   BUT...after this whole rant, I still love and always will love this band. Too many great tunes to ignore!

[Rod in Toronto]

In the 2004 tour Sammy caved and agreed to sing a few more DLR-era songs...Unchained, Jump, Panama, Ain't Talking 'Bout Love, Somebody Get Me a Doctor (sung by Mike), Running with the Devil and I think You Really Got Me as well...bu there's absolutely NO WAY Dave is gonna sing anything off the Hagar years with the band. He just can't and won't.

[metaldad]

QUOTE (RodrigoAltaf @ Jan 4 2012, 01:59 PM)

In the 2004 tour Sammy caved and agreed to sing a few more DLR-era songs...Unchained, Jump, Panama, Ain't Talking 'Bout Love, Somebody Get Me a Doctor (sung by Mike), Running with the Devil and I think You Really Got Me as well...bu there's absolutely NO WAY Dave is gonna sing anything off the Hagar years with the band. He just can't and won't.

Sammy really had no choice. They were promoting a Greatest Hits album, not to do any of the old songs would be pretty dumb.

.

 

[metaldad]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 4 2012, 01:37 PM)

I absolutely agree with you 100% on the live thing. They are BOTH guilty of this. In 2004, Hagar and Co. only played around 3 DLR-era songs I believe, and in 2007, the DLR group played ZERO Hagar tunes.

Did anyone really think Dave was going to sing Sammy songs ? I don't know one Old School Halen fan that wants Roth to sing Sammy songs, and i know a ton of V.H. fans

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 03:39 PM)

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 4 2012, 01:37 PM) I absolutely agree with you 100% on the live thing. They are BOTH guilty of this. In 2004, Hagar and Co. only played around 3 DLR-era songs I believe, and in 2007, the DLR group played ZERO Hagar tunes. Did anyone really think Dave was going to sing Sammy songs ? I don't know one Old School Halen fan that wants Roth to sing Sammy songs, and i know a ton of V.H. fans Right, I understand.   In the ideal world, everyone would make up and they could do a massive tour with BOTH Dave and Sammy (and Mike back of course).   Have each guy singing the tunes from each of their respective records. That to me, would be a PERFECT live show. I'd pay big money to see that.   It won't happen though of course...but it'd be cool IMO.

[Rod in Toronto]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 02:39 PM)

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 4 2012, 01:37 PM) I absolutely agree with you 100% on the live thing. They are BOTH guilty of this. In 2004, Hagar and Co. only played around 3 DLR-era songs I believe, and in 2007, the DLR group played ZERO Hagar tunes. Did anyone really think Dave was going to sing Sammy songs ? I don't know one Old School Halen fan that wants Roth to sing Sammy songs, and i know a ton of V.H. fans That's a catch-22 for me. Of course, Dave would sound horrible singing anything off the Hagar era, except for maybe Finish What Ya Started (which is simply Sammy trying to emulate Dave anyway). But at the same time, there's a bunch of cool songs which we'll never hear Eddie play again as long as Dave is in the band - Dreams, Poundcake, Right Now, A.F.U., Seventh Seal, Aftershock etc...   Of course Sammy plays some of these with the Waboritas, but it's just not the same...it's ok during the riff parts, but when it comes to the solo, you're expecting Ed ti rip it up, and in comes Vic Johnson doing his thing...   can you guys imagine if Chickenfoot all of a sudden included a few Van Hagar songs in the setlist? That would kick serious ass!!!!

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 02:39 PM)

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 4 2012, 01:37 PM) I absolutely agree with you 100% on the live thing. They are BOTH guilty of this. In 2004, Hagar and Co. only played around 3 DLR-era songs I believe, and in 2007, the DLR group played ZERO Hagar tunes. Did anyone really think Dave was going to sing Sammy songs ? I don't know one Old School Halen fan that wants Roth to sing Sammy songs, and i know a ton of V.H. fans But beyond this, Dave couldn't pull it off....even if he liked that material. Sammy's the better singer. And of course, Dave wouldn't do it even if he could pull it off, but he can't, so it's moot.   Maiden's asked Bruce Dickinson to sing Blaze Bayley shit. If that's not akin to asking the king to clean around the crapper with a toothbrush, I don't know what is.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Presto-digitation

[Unattractive Truth]

Well, just me personally, I thought Hagar-Era Van Halen was sucky pop shit. All I think of from then was that Pepsi Commercial.

 

Diamond Dave has plenty of VH material that does not suck balls. Stick with that.

 

Hey...will they do any of his solo stuff? Shy Boy might not be bad...

 

 

 

 

PS: Announce the Dates, you bastards!

 

[metaldad]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 4 2012, 02:48 PM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 03:39 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 4 2012, 01:37 PM) I absolutely agree with you 100% on the live thing. They are BOTH guilty of this. In 2004, Hagar and Co. only played around 3 DLR-era songs I believe, and in 2007, the DLR group played ZERO Hagar tunes. Did anyone really think Dave was going to sing Sammy songs ? I don't know one Old School Halen fan that wants Roth to sing Sammy songs, and i know a ton of V.H. fans Right, I understand.   In the ideal world, everyone would make up and they could do a massive tour with BOTH Dave and Sammy (and Mike back of course).   Have each guy singing the tunes from each of their respective records. That to me, would be a PERFECT live show. I'd pay big money to see that.   It won't happen though of course...but it'd be cool IMO. I read that Sammy wanted to do this and that is how the Dave/Sammy tour came up. Funny thing is , Sammy only wanted to do it because he Thinks he is better than Dave and thinks the V.H. songs with him are Better, Now that is funny shit I don't hate all the Sammy stuff, if you took the 4 albums they did with him, i can prob pick 10 songs for 1 Great album

[metaldad]

QUOTE (Unattractive Truth @ Jan 4 2012, 03:36 PM)

Hey...will they do any of his solo stuff? Shy Boy might not be bad...

Never in a Million years.........

[metaldad]

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jan 4 2012, 03:20 PM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 02:39 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 4 2012, 01:37 PM) I absolutely agree with you 100% on the live thing. They are BOTH guilty of this. In 2004, Hagar and Co. only played around 3 DLR-era songs I believe, and in 2007, the DLR group played ZERO Hagar tunes. Did anyone really think Dave was going to sing Sammy songs ? I don't know one Old School Halen fan that wants Roth to sing Sammy songs, and i know a ton of V.H. fans But beyond this, Dave couldn't pull it off....even if he liked that material. Sammy's the better singer. And of course, Dave wouldn't do it even if he could pull it off, but he can't, so it's moot.   Maiden's asked Bruce Dickinson to sing Blaze Bayley shit. If that's not akin to asking the king to clean around the crapper with a toothbrush, I don't know what is. Oh, i know Sam is a better singer and Dave would never be able to sing them. All i was saying is that when you went to a show with Sam, people wanted to hear Dave songs. I only know 1 person that wanted Sam songs with Dave, and i bust his balls about it The thing with Maiden i think ? They know those songs would sound great with Bruce, that is why they did them. Dave singing Love Walks In ? Not so much

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (Unattractive Truth @ Jan 4 2012, 02:36 PM)

Well, just me personally, I thought Hagar-Era Van Halen was sucky pop shit.

Right, because 1984 was such a hardcore ballsy rock and roll record.

 

You guys that hate Hagar-era VH always overlook the obvious: they were going in that direction anyway. Even if Roth had stuck around, the next album would have sounded a lot like 5150. It goes back to what people have been saying in this thread a lot... it's the Ed & Alex show, musically. The singer is a non-entity in determining the overall direction of the music.

[metaldad]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jan 4 2012, 03:58 PM)

You guys that hate Hagar-era VH always overlook the obvious: they were going in that direction anyway. Even if Roth had stuck around, the next album would have sounded a lot like 5150.

I agree 100 % Because 5150 was almost half written while Dave was still around . No way imo songs like When It's Love, Amsterdam ect. would have been on Any album

[Unattractive Truth]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 01:46 PM)

QUOTE (Unattractive Truth @ Jan 4 2012, 03:36 PM) Hey...will they do any of his solo stuff? Shy Boy might not be bad... Never in a Million years.........   Hey, if you're gonna have a delusion, it might as well be a good one, right?         QUOTE (danielmclark @ Jan 4 2012, 01:58 PM) QUOTE (Unattractive Truth @ Jan 4 2012, 02:36 PM) Well, just me personally, I thought Hagar-Era Van Halen was sucky pop shit. Right, because 1984 was such a hardcore ballsy rock and roll record.   You guys that hate Hagar-era VH always overlook the obvious: they were going in that direction anyway. Even if Roth had stuck around, the next album would have sounded a lot like 5150. It goes back to what people have been saying in this thread a lot... it's the Ed & Alex show, musically. The singer is a non-entity in determining the overall direction of the music. You may be right on that, I don't know. I'm not really up on the inner workings of the band. I just know what sounds good to me and what doesn't. JMHO.

[ReRushed]

The Hagar-era albums are much more bloated than the Roth-era albums. The albums with Roth are more to the point and never wear out their welcome. Is there a Roth-era album over 35 minutes? Nope. There's no fat to trim on those babies!

[Presto-digitation]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 03:51 PM)

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jan 4 2012, 03:20 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Jan 4 2012, 02:39 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jan 4 2012, 01:37 PM) I absolutely agree with you 100% on the live thing. They are BOTH guilty of this. In 2004, Hagar and Co. only played around 3 DLR-era songs I believe, and in 2007, the DLR group played ZERO Hagar tunes. Did anyone really think Dave was going to sing Sammy songs ? I don't know one Old School Halen fan that wants Roth to sing Sammy songs, and i know a ton of V.H. fans But beyond this, Dave couldn't pull it off....even if he liked that material. Sammy's the better singer. And of course, Dave wouldn't do it even if he could pull it off, but he can't, so it's moot.   Maiden's asked Bruce Dickinson to sing Blaze Bayley shit. If that's not akin to asking the king to clean around the crapper with a toothbrush, I don't know what is. Oh, i know Sam is a better singer and Dave would never be able to sing them. All i was saying is that when you went to a show with Sam, people wanted to hear Dave songs. I only know 1 person that wanted Sam songs with Dave, and i bust his balls about it The thing with Maiden i think ? They know those songs would sound great with Bruce, that is why they did them. Dave singing Love Walks In ? Not so much Well that's the luxury of the band being established around YOU instead of the guy who followed you.   That has maybe a bit less to do with who you are (Sammy was quite well accepted overall...one of the most successful lead singer changes EVER) and simply what came earlier. We love those old VH songs and just want to hear them, no matter who's singing. Sammy would've been smarter to have realized that a bit more in the earlier days when they were still building new Van Hagar material.   But it's the same with just about every artist. No one wants to hear Ace Frehley play Heaven's On Fire or Lick It Up either. And everyone wants Bruce Kulick to play classic Kiss cuts.

[EmotionDetector]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Jan 4 2012, 05:36 PM)

The Hagar-era albums are much more bloated than the Roth-era albums. The albums with Roth are more to the point and never wear out their welcome. Is there a Roth-era album over 35 minutes? Nope. There's no fat to trim on those babies!

Meh...while I see your point, you realize the same thing is always brought up with Rush as well.

 

Remember...the famous 'F Word'?? FILLER

 

I believe they are no different...Hagar came in around the time when albums were becoming longer. They went the same way everyone else did.

 

Rush released HYF in 1987, and no album since then has had fewer than 10 tracks on it. 5150 was released in 1986.

 

Let me put it to you like this...if DLR had never left VH...

 

1) The band would still have begun to write "pop material" because as others said, they were headed in that direction anyways

 

and

 

2) The albums would've been just as long as they became with Hagar because the fact is, all bands started doing that thanks to the evolution of CD's and such.