What does everyone think of Hold Your Fire?

[metaldad]

QUOTE (PariahDog @ Jun 9 2011, 06:35 PM)

I think it's interesting that most S&A haters seem to love HYF

Not me

[Drummerrobin]

Absolutely love the album!! It took me a while to get into it but once I did that was it - to me the album just never gets old and I don't think there's a weak moment on it (I know not everyone's gonna agree with that!). IMO Neil was absolutely on fire with the lyric writing, and I just find the album to be oozing with emotion - good cheese I think! (especially Tai Shan!)

 

I would take the combo of PoW and HYF over Signals and P/G any day - they're absolute gems! I think they're definitely the band's most underrated work and the last of truly great rush albums. (but don't get me wrong, I still really enjoy much of what they've done since)

 

And I was just listening to the Show of Hands version of Prime Mover - that song NEEDS to be brought back for the Clockwork Angels tour! Just sayin...

[briremo]

I love HYF, one of my fav rush albums. Neil's drumming on the end of LaK is awesome.

[Unattractive Truth]

It's over-produced, but it has some great songs.

 

They sound excellent live.

[MCM]

QUOTE (Humbleanddumb @ Jun 9 2011, 10:34 PM)

QUOTE (Invisible To Telescopic Eye @ Jun 8 2011, 10:30 AM) Loved it when it came out and used to listen to it all the time....years and years ago...but I have not listened to it in easily 20 years and still own it on cassette and vinyl, but not CD. I loved it so much i bought it on all 3 formats Have it on vinyl; then the cassette; left that one on the dash of the car and it melted; got another cassette; then a cd; then a remastered cd.. I may have had more copies of HYF in various formats than any other album.

[Bastille Dave]

I like it, maybe more for nostalgia reasons. I like the first 8 songs, the last 2 I usually skip.

[InvisibleAirwaves13]

Love HYF! For the era it was produced in it was ground breaking. Very good balance of synths and tradtional guitar, bass and drums. I love every song.

 

[psionic11]

QUOTE (InvisibleAirwaves13 @ Jun 12 2011, 08:41 AM)

Love HYF! For the era it was produced in it was ground breaking. Very good balance of synths and tradtional guitar, bass and drums. I love every song.

+1

 

Compositionally, their best. Lyrically as well.

 

Never gets old for me. Amazed at how many times I blast Turn the Page.

[Unattractive Truth]

QUOTE (psionic11 @ Jun 12 2011, 06:58 AM)

QUOTE (InvisibleAirwaves13 @ Jun 12 2011, 08:41 AM) Love HYF!  For the era it was produced in it was ground breaking.  Very good balance of synths and tradtional guitar, bass and drums.  I love every song.     +1   Compositionally, their best. Lyrically as well.   Never gets old for me. Amazed at how many times I blast Turn the Page. I'm the same, with Force Ten and Prime Mover.

[trenken]

This might actually be my favorite album from them as far as the bass playing goes. He was starting to get into playing chords more, and plucking with his thumb, index and middle fingers at the same time like on force ten and turn the page. Playing chords on bass was continued with Counterparts when he was developing a more funky style of playing.

 

After all these years I still play that beginning of turn the page when Im noodling around because its just fun to play. Ive never forgotten how to play it. I can go 5 years without playing it and still remember it. That's the sign of a great riff. He does some creative things on Prime Mover too, things most bass players wouldnt think to do in a band with only 3 people in it, but it still works.

 

For me being a bass player the 2 album I enjoy playing the most are Power Windows and HYF, so Ill always love those 2 albums, even though the songs arent my favorites from them, Ill always believe those are 2 of Geddy's finest bass playing albums.

[GeddyLina]

I friggin' LOVE Hold Your Fire!

 

One of my top 3:s!!

 

 

[New Digital Man]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 12 2011, 10:18 AM)

This might actually be my favorite album from them as far as the bass playing goes. He was starting to get into playing chords more, and plucking with his thumb, index and middle fingers at the same time like on force ten and turn the page. Playing chords on bass was continued with Counterparts when he was developing a more funky style of playing. After all these years I still play that beginning of turn the page when Im noodling around because its just fun to play. Ive never forgotten how to play it. I can go 5 years without playing it and still remember it. That's the sign of a great riff. He does some creative things on Prime Mover too, things most bass players wouldnt think to do in a band with only 3 people in it, but it still works. For me being a bass player the 2 album I enjoy playing the most are Power Windows and HYF, so Ill always love those 2 albums, even though the songs arent my favorites from them, Ill always believe those are 2 of Geddy's finest bass playing albums.

You are so right! This is a f***ing awesome album, bring back the Wal!

[WCFIELDS]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Jun 10 2011, 03:06 PM)

QUOTE (PariahDog @ Jun 9 2011, 06:35 PM) I think it's interesting that most S&A haters seem to love HYF Not me not me either.....I think HYF is definately better, but I don't "love" it....it's got 3 or 4 good songs....

[psionic11]

Oh yeah, bass players in the house. That bass line from Turn the Page is the main thing that grabs me, but the rest of the song is strong too.... synths and explosive climax and all... I've only learned the bass intro and the first verse note for note, then just wing it from there on out.

 

Subdivisions is your classic vocals + bass + synths song, but Turn the Page brings it all to a new level. Great rush from pulling it off when in the zone...

 

I was also in the US Air Force band, unfortunately on trombone and in the protocol/symphonic band. I wasn't lucky enough to be in the 6 piece rock band detachment, but I hung out with the guys all the time. I picked up bass that same year, having been mainly a keys and guitar musician before that. They played one Rush song, and it was Lock and Key. Strange choice at first, but now that I look back at it, it's a song that offered each musician a challenging enough part to appease any non-Rush fans in the band (the leader was the drummer, an obvious Neil fan). The guitarist had awesome chops, esp for country guitar, and the keyboardist was obviously classically trained, even though he stood behind the classic 80's racks of synths playing block chords.

 

Rush's musicianship on the HYF studio album was top notch, and the songs very able to cross over commercially as well as artistically without selling out. The world is bigger than rock-metal purists and their spin-offs.

 

Geddy's bass lines very much groove and cleverly hide the fact that the songs are still basic rock song chord progressions. Acid Jazz pre-cursor? An argument could be made... Alex's solos and guitaristic styles range the gamut, and orchestrally are hard to beat. Who does better orchestrally on guitar? Neil's lyrics are not only the most accessible, but also, imho, the most mature he has written to date. Prog or hard rockers may not relate, but there's more realistic humanity without the preaching in them than anything else he's ever written. And Geddy is a melodic master. Good thing we like his voice. Other non-Rush fans may not, but any gifted vocalist who would cover HYF has plenty of soul to draw from.

 

You can't please all the people all the time, and Rush fans are such a diverse mixture that you can't please the majority of them the majority of the time either. What a balancing act that must be, at least on a subconscious level when Geddy goes to write the melody to some new Neil lyrics.

Edited June 12, 2011 by psionic11

[trenken]

QUOTE (psionic11 @ Jun 12 2011, 02:54 PM)

Oh yeah, bass players in the house. That bass line from Turn the Page is the main thing that grabs me, but the rest of the song is strong too.... synths and explosive climax and all... I've only learned the bass intro and the first verse note for note, then just wing it from there on out. Subdivisions is your classic vocals + bass + synths song, but Turn the Page brings it all to a new level. Great rush from pulling it off when in the zone... I was also in the US Air Force band, unfortunately on trombone and in the protocol/symphonic band. I wasn't lucky enough to be in the 6 piece rock band detachment, but I hung out with the guys all the time. I picked up bass that same year, having been mainly a keys and guitar musician before that. They played one Rush song, and it was Lock and Key. Strange choice at first, but now that I look back at it, it's a song that offered each musician a challenging enough part to appease any non-Rush fans in the band (the leader was the drummer, an obvious Neil fan). The guitarist had awesome chops, esp for country guitar, and the keyboardist was obviously classically trained, even though he stood behind the classic 80's racks of synths playing block chords. Rush's musicianship on the HYF studio album was top notch, and the songs very able to cross over commercially as well as artistically without selling out. The world is bigger than rock-metal purists and their spin-offs. Geddy's bass lines very much groove and cleverly hide the fact that the songs are still basic rock song chord progressions. Acid Jazz pre-cursor? An argument could be made... Alex's solos and guitaristic styles range the gamut, and orchestrally are hard to beat. Who does better orchestrally on guitar? Neil's lyrics are not only the most accessible, but also, imho, the most mature he has written to date. Prog or hard rockers may not relate, but there's more realistic humanity without the preaching in them than anything else he's ever written. And Geddy is a melodic master. Good thing we like his voice. Other non-Rush fans may not, but any gifted vocalist who would cover HYF has plenty of soul to draw from. You can't please all the people all the time, and Rush fans are such a diverse mixture that you can't please the majority of them the majority of the time either. What a balancing act that must be, at least on a subconscious level when Geddy goes to write the melody to some new Neil lyrics.

Yeah that opening riff from from turn the page is great. What he does in the verses too is fantastic. I remember learning that I guess when I was about 16 or so and it was so hard at the time. Then I finally got it down then dreaded learning how to sing over it, but I realized it wasnt that hard because the bassline is actually very linear. It's not difficult to sing over it and it turned out not be as complex as I thought it would be.

 

Anyway, just the fact that he wrote it is something ill always admire. Even if it's not that hard once you learn it, HE WROTE IT, and that demands respect.

[jnoble]

Here's the thing about HYF: Technically, lyrically, melodically,performance-wise...the songs are mostly very good. If this were almost any other band, this album might be considered their best work.

 

That being said, this type of music: overproduced lush dramatic synth-pop wasn't what a three-piece hard rock band like Rush should've been recording. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy several of the tunes on HYF and was happy to hear a few of them brought back live... but overall it was Rush going too far in one direction away from what made them great. Tai Shan and Second Nature are the prime examples of how wussy and soft Rush's sound had gotten at the time.

Edited June 13, 2011 by jnoble

[1 of the 7]

QUOTE (jnoble @ Jun 13 2011, 05:14 PM)

That being said, this type of music: overproduced lush dramatic synth-pop wasn't what a three-piece hard rock band like Rush should've been recording.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy several of the tunes on HYF and was happy to hear a few of them brought back live... but overall it was Rush going too far in one direction away from what made them great.  Tai Shan and Second Nature are the prime examples of how wussy and soft Rush's sound had gotten at the time.

See, I like the variety; in fact, a varied catalog is one of the biggest attractions of a band to me. Whether I'm in the mood for slow acoustic-y ballads or borderline-metal, with a few countryish or New Wave tunes thrown in for spice, Rush has it.

 

Of course, not everyone is going to have a taste for that many genres of music; I just happen to, with synth-rock being #1

 

I suppose there was a lot of concern at the time that Rush was going to stick to this type of music? They'd changed so much before, though; they were bound to again. And again.

Edited June 14, 2011 by 1 of the 7

[rushgoober]

[Rush Cocky]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 14 2011, 01:56 AM)

HYF is where they really pushed the synths to the limit, and I love what they did with them during this album and this period in general. For me it's all about songs, and if the songs are great, then the instrumentation is secondary.

 

IMO, HYF pushed the synths WAY beyond the limit. So much so, that apart from Geddy's voice, it hardly seemed like Rush to me anymore. Yes the songs were still decent, but I can't get past that synth and light sounding guitar/bass to really appreciate the compositions. Now, if they played all the HYF songs live in a much "heavier" format, that might change.

 

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 14 2011, 01:56 AM)

I've missed the synths ever since, but maybe that's because they've never been that consistent on an album again, even considering the last two songs.  CP was at least as consistent, but the emotional quality that the synthesizers brought push HYF over CP by a good margin.  I would have been thrilled with a return to the 2112 - MP use of synths post-HYF, as I think they could only have greatly added to and enhanced their music, but alas, it was not to be.

 

Counterparts has exactly the right amount of synths to me (I'm listening to it now....)

[jnoble]

[rushgoober]

[sanzo]

I dont tend to care too much about how HYF soundds to other albums sound wise,Im not a music producer and dont get how it all works..

Ill will tell you songs that Are amzing songs, studio or live, brilliant in their own right .

Time stand still (tmt,was awesome!

open secrets

lock and key(underrated, brillaint Rush song)

mission

turn the page

[PariahDog]

QUOTE (jnoble @ Jun 13 2011, 05:14 PM)

Here's the thing about HYF: Technically, lyrically, melodically,performance-wise...the songs are mostly very good. If this were almost any other band, this album might be considered their best work. That being said, this type of music: overproduced lush dramatic synth-pop wasn't what a three-piece hard rock band like Rush should've been recording. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy several of the tunes on HYF and was happy to hear a few of them brought back live... but overall it was Rush going too far in one direction away from what made them great. Tai Shan and Second Nature are the prime examples of how wussy and soft Rush's sound had gotten at the time.

I would pretty much agree with this. They (Geddy?) had been really pushing the envelope with the synths on Signals>GUP>PoW, and they just took it a step too far on HYF. You can tell they realized this, when you see how far they dialed back the synths on Presto (an over-reaction in the other direction, IMO).

 

A big part of the problem was the switch to digital synths, and Andy Wallace should share some blame as he did a lot of the synth patch programming and sequencing on HYF and PoW (IIRC).

 

For me, the sweet spot for synths in Rush was always AFTK>MP, with a nice clean, dry mix of guitars/bass/drums, but also a healthy dose of Moog/Taurus/Oberheim to fatten up the mix and add texture. If I have one wish for CA, it would be that they would bring back this approach on a few tracks. I do hold out hope, after hearing the prominence of the synth in parts of BU2B (though it does remind me more of PoW than MP).

 

 

[nappy2112]

Gets my vote for worst Rush album.

[Rush!]

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 8 2011, 09:18 AM)

Also to close, OPEN SECRETS might just be the most underrated Rush song in their entire catelog. Seriously, it is criminally underrated...amazing tune that I really wish would see the light of day on tour.

Yes Yes Yes.

 

HYF probably sits at #11 or 12 for me on my Rush rankings.

 

I'd rank the album itself like this:

 

1. Turn the Page

2. Open Secrets

3. Lock and Key

4. Prime Mover

5. Time Stand Still

6. High Water

7. Force Ten

8. Mission

9. Tai Shan

10. Second Nature (way too cheesy for me)