Ya_Big_Tree Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 02:35 PM) I think we're all making a big deal about nothing. These are rock lyrics we're talking about, not passages out of the necronomicon. Speaking of which... I seem to be missing my copy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 02:35 PM) I think we're all making a big deal about nothing. These are rock lyrics we're talking about, not passages out of the necronomicon. I just had Evil Dead flashbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (Ya_Big_Tree @ Oct 15 2010, 04:38 PM) QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 02:35 PM) I think we're all making a big deal about nothing. These are rock lyrics we're talking about, not passages out of the necronomicon. Speaking of which... I seem to be missing my copy Did you says the words EXACTLY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 02:29 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:22 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 15 2010, 02:15 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 01:48 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:38 PM) It's just remarkable how the belief in God and/or a religion is always promoted and preached all over the place yet as soon as someone starts promoting and preaching the opposite, people start getting all bent out of shape. Why is it THAT one-sided? promoted and preached all over the place? where do you live? here in nyc it's the opposite or i never see much of it. i've actually seen vans driven around with signs on the side that are against it so yea it's promoted and preached in my neck of the woods by opposite of what you're getting. Visit Texas some time. You want preachy? You want evidence that they're trying to shove it down our throats? This is on the side of a building downtown, and at night, they light it up. I'm trying to find a picture of it online and failing. I'm going downtown tonight actually, so I'll get a picture myself. and on the side of the highway, we have this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CT4y-UiwdC0/SJkralvQMRI/AAAAAAAAArA/6k-FLOAAhrI/s1600/giant%2Bcross.1.jpg and we're the home of the "mega churches" - they bought out the Summit, where I saw Rush play 20 years ago, and turned it into a church. They built another south of there, with massive highway signs. Houston loves their giant crosses: http://images.chron.com/blogs/keepthefaith/cross.jpg Heading south on I-45, there's a billboard next to a club called Heartbreakers that reads "Jesus Heals the Broken Hearted". Far from being just a marker, that's a direct response to a local business. Preachy, indeed. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about and I'm a very proud Texan. And it's not always a political right-wing/left-wing thing or Republican vs. Democrat. It consumes all of that. Some of the most strict religious people I know are staunch liberals believe it or not. Not that that matters except to point out again that it trumps everything in some places. that's a little over the top. hey man you should come and visit ny. all kinds of freaks walking around this town. it might be a nice breath of fresh air for you. I lived in Austin for 20 years. You don't have anything that we don't have. You should see Leslie for an example. Actually a nice person, I met him once. Just.... Well, just look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Cochran don't judge a book by it's cover but i wouldn't invite him over for a beer on my stoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-D-RocK- Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Geez, that's a huge cross. What do they do when a tornado rolls through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya_Big_Tree Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:40 PM) QUOTE (Ya_Big_Tree @ Oct 15 2010, 04:38 PM) QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 02:35 PM) I think we're all making a big deal about nothing. These are rock lyrics we're talking about, not passages out of the necronomicon. Speaking of which... I seem to be missing my copy Did you says the words EXACTLY? "Join us!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost In Xanadu Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 03:48 PM) Geez, that's a huge cross. What do they do when a tornado rolls through? most likely pray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya_Big_Tree Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (Lost In Xanadu @ Oct 15 2010, 02:50 PM) QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 03:48 PM) Geez, that's a huge cross. What do they do when a tornado rolls through? most likely pray Ya like that ever works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 02:42 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 02:29 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:22 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 15 2010, 02:15 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 01:48 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:38 PM) It's just remarkable how the belief in God and/or a religion is always promoted and preached all over the place yet as soon as someone starts promoting and preaching the opposite, people start getting all bent out of shape. Why is it THAT one-sided? promoted and preached all over the place? where do you live? here in nyc it's the opposite or i never see much of it. i've actually seen vans driven around with signs on the side that are against it so yea it's promoted and preached in my neck of the woods by opposite of what you're getting. Visit Texas some time. You want preachy? You want evidence that they're trying to shove it down our throats? This is on the side of a building downtown, and at night, they light it up. I'm trying to find a picture of it online and failing. I'm going downtown tonight actually, so I'll get a picture myself. and on the side of the highway, we have this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CT4y-UiwdC0/SJkralvQMRI/AAAAAAAAArA/6k-FLOAAhrI/s1600/giant%2Bcross.1.jpg and we're the home of the "mega churches" - they bought out the Summit, where I saw Rush play 20 years ago, and turned it into a church. They built another south of there, with massive highway signs. Houston loves their giant crosses: http://images.chron.com/blogs/keepthefaith/cross.jpg Heading south on I-45, there's a billboard next to a club called Heartbreakers that reads "Jesus Heals the Broken Hearted". Far from being just a marker, that's a direct response to a local business. Preachy, indeed. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about and I'm a very proud Texan. And it's not always a political right-wing/left-wing thing or Republican vs. Democrat. It consumes all of that. Some of the most strict religious people I know are staunch liberals believe it or not. Not that that matters except to point out again that it trumps everything in some places. that's a little over the top. hey man you should come and visit ny. all kinds of freaks walking around this town. it might be a nice breath of fresh air for you. I lived in Austin for 20 years. You don't have anything that we don't have. You should see Leslie for an example. Actually a nice person, I met him once. Just.... Well, just look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Cochran don't judge a book by it's cover but i wouldn't invite him over for a beer on my stoop. Leopard skin thong, halter top, ear rings, and high heels is his preferred outfit for 6th street. He's a minor celebrity there and is generally treated well (with some isolated bad cases). He's the unofficial poster child for Austin's Keep Austin Weird campaign. I loved Austin though and will probably move back. It's equal parts hippie and redneck, old traditional Texas values and modern college age coolness, rock and country, liberal and conservative, and every other contradiction you could think of. And it's totally laid back and unbelievably beautiful. And my beloved Texas Longhorns are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 14 2010, 03:15 PM) Let's be careful not to turn this into a religion/anti-religion thread. That stuff belongs in our politics section. Keep it about Neil's lyrics and not about YOUR views on religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielmclark Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 02:48 PM) Geez, that's a huge cross. What do they do when a tornado rolls through? God protects the cities with the most giant crosses, so we're safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 15 2010, 02:59 PM) QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 02:48 PM) Geez, that's a huge cross. What do they do when a tornado rolls through? God protects the cities with the most giant crosses, so we're safe. What happens is somebody gets a new yard ornament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya_Big_Tree Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:55 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 14 2010, 03:15 PM) Let's be careful not to turn this into a religion/anti-religion thread. That stuff belongs in our politics section. Keep it about Neil's lyrics and not about YOUR views on religion. Heh... my comment was very tongue in cheek... as you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:55 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 14 2010, 03:15 PM) Let's be careful not to turn this into a religion/anti-religion thread. That stuff belongs in our politics section. Keep it about Neil's lyrics and not about YOUR views on religion. Is it ok if we turn this into an anti-Justin Bieber thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost In Xanadu Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (Ya_Big_Tree @ Oct 15 2010, 04:01 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:55 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 14 2010, 03:15 PM) Let's be careful not to turn this into a religion/anti-religion thread. That stuff belongs in our politics section. Keep it about Neil's lyrics and not about YOUR views on religion. Heh... my comment was very tongue in cheek... as you know. It was?? Well, I have to rethink my whole ditching religion based on that one post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112Oracle Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (Silas Lang @ Oct 14 2010, 01:18 PM) Well I certainly don't find it depressing, preachy and cynical. And it rocks! So bring it on I say! Hallelujah! Thank you for saying it for me. It's my fave song of Rush's right now. Plus I've got a connection to that song, in some strange way. Neil must've known my beliefs, because, I personally feel that very same way about the world and the universe having a plan. It's true, and my friends that are anti-Rush believe that he's speaking the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 05:02 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:55 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 14 2010, 03:15 PM) Let's be careful not to turn this into a religion/anti-religion thread. That stuff belongs in our politics section. Keep it about Neil's lyrics and not about YOUR views on religion. Is it ok if we turn this into an anti-Justin Bieber thread? That's not only okay, but encouraged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:18 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 05:02 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:55 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 14 2010, 03:15 PM) Let's be careful not to turn this into a religion/anti-religion thread. That stuff belongs in our politics section. Keep it about Neil's lyrics and not about YOUR views on religion. Is it ok if we turn this into an anti-Justin Bieber thread? That's not only okay, but encouraged! I figured just out of principle. And it's something we can all agree on to bring us back together, I hope. Different political beliefs? Ok, let's discuss it. Different religious beliefs? Ok, we can talk about it. Don't want Bieber's head on a pike? .... Get the hell out of here!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya_Big_Tree Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:18 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 05:02 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:55 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Oct 14 2010, 03:15 PM) Let's be careful not to turn this into a religion/anti-religion thread. That stuff belongs in our politics section. Keep it about Neil's lyrics and not about YOUR views on religion. Is it ok if we turn this into an anti-Justin Bieber thread? That's not only okay, but encouraged! Be careful what you wish for Jimmeh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Interesting analysis/review of BU2B by a Christian: http://www.amazon.com/review/R268TRXOB6GR7...&tag=&linkCode= 4.0 out of 5 stars Music is great; lyrics: thoughtful, June 10, 2010 By Michael J. Salzgeber This review is from: BU2B (MP3 Download) As a long time Rush fan, as well as a Christian, Rush - in the lyrics of Neil Peart - has once again given me something to think about. Peart has revealed in this song he continues to wrestle with a problem common to all of us; namely what philosophers call the Problem of Evil. Why do bad things happen to good people? And why, if there is indeed a all-loving and all-powerful God, doesn't he do anything to stop it? The answer from his youth - which, I'm afraid, is often given by well-meaning Christians - is that the pain and suffering in one's life is *directly* attributable to one's actions. If we do good things, we get rewarded. If we do bad things, well then, the consequences are directly attributable to them. Joy and pain, as it were. Certainly this has to plague Peart, who I daresay has endured more pain and suffering than most of us will ever have to personally. Pinning all of that on him is beyond cruel. The answer Peart gives is most definitely *not* the message of Scripture, and Peart is right in rejecting it. But the question still remains: Why do these bad things happen? Why doesn't God do something about evil? And why do those consequences affect others the way they do? I believe that the answer lies in God's creation of people with a free will; we can either choose to follow in the ways of God by worshiping Him and being nice to our neighbors, or we can choose to go our own way. God could certainly have created a race of humans without the ability to rebel, but He chose not to. And it is this choice - this Freewill, if you like - that is the source of evil all throughout the world. God didn't create evil, for Evil is not a Thing - it is Good spoiled, as it were. Evil is a choice. Take away evil and you take away what makes us human. And the seed of it is inside each one of us. If Peart is honest with himself - and I believe that he is based upon reading the words to "Lock and Key" - then he knows this. We all fall short of the moral standard we set for ourselves, much less God's or any other deity we care to compare ourselves to! We know what is good and right to do, yet we fail to do it. We carry guilt and shame from words spoken in anger, malicious deeds, and thoughts that plague us. This yearning to be freed from guilt isn't a Christian phenomenon; *every* man or woman has to wrestle with this one. Only by denying such absolutes as "good" and "evil" can one even attempt to avoid the problem, but I think we can all agree that I were to suddenly punch a passer-by on the street in the face for no reason, that would be wrong, evil - and for me, the consequences *would* be immediate - and painful! But does this imply that our evil actions are always the direct cause of the consequences? Certainly this can be the case - if, for example, I attempt to fly a plane without a pilot's license, it will almost certainly cost me my life - but often times, this just isn't true. Jesus pointed this out to His disciples on at least one occasion (Luke 13:1-5). Sometimes we're the recipient of the evil brought about by others. Sometimes we're a victim of God's creation being in a state of rebellion. And sometimes, it really *is* our fault. But assigning blame based directly on one's circumstances isn't the message of the Bible. I would also add that of all the world's religions, Christianity - in the person and work of Jesus Christ - is the only one that actually *solves* the problem of evil, not by looking down from above and choosing to stay on the sidelines, but by taking the form of a man, allowing himself to be subject to unimaginable evil, and paying the punishment for the wrong things I've done. So according to Christian doctrine, I'm not going to get what I deserve; indeed, according to what I was BU2B, I'll get far better; I'll receive the grace given to me by a God who literally loved *himself* to death. Peart can get this as well (and I really hope he does - Heaven will be a little too quiet without him!) ...and so can you. Put Jesus Christ under the microscope and see if His claims of being the actual God who created everything lived, died, and rose again are really true. Because if you choose not to decide, well... you get the idea. And I have to add that Paley must be proud. His watch lives on in a song that shows irrefutable evidence of design. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:53 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 02:42 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 02:29 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:22 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 15 2010, 02:15 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 01:48 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:38 PM) It's just remarkable how the belief in God and/or a religion is always promoted and preached all over the place yet as soon as someone starts promoting and preaching the opposite, people start getting all bent out of shape. Why is it THAT one-sided? promoted and preached all over the place? where do you live? here in nyc it's the opposite or i never see much of it. i've actually seen vans driven around with signs on the side that are against it so yea it's promoted and preached in my neck of the woods by opposite of what you're getting. Visit Texas some time. You want preachy? You want evidence that they're trying to shove it down our throats? This is on the side of a building downtown, and at night, they light it up. I'm trying to find a picture of it online and failing. I'm going downtown tonight actually, so I'll get a picture myself. and on the side of the highway, we have this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CT4y-UiwdC0/SJkralvQMRI/AAAAAAAAArA/6k-FLOAAhrI/s1600/giant%2Bcross.1.jpg and we're the home of the "mega churches" - they bought out the Summit, where I saw Rush play 20 years ago, and turned it into a church. They built another south of there, with massive highway signs. Houston loves their giant crosses: http://images.chron.com/blogs/keepthefaith/cross.jpg Heading south on I-45, there's a billboard next to a club called Heartbreakers that reads "Jesus Heals the Broken Hearted". Far from being just a marker, that's a direct response to a local business. Preachy, indeed. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about and I'm a very proud Texan. And it's not always a political right-wing/left-wing thing or Republican vs. Democrat. It consumes all of that. Some of the most strict religious people I know are staunch liberals believe it or not. Not that that matters except to point out again that it trumps everything in some places. that's a little over the top. hey man you should come and visit ny. all kinds of freaks walking around this town. it might be a nice breath of fresh air for you. I lived in Austin for 20 years. You don't have anything that we don't have. You should see Leslie for an example. Actually a nice person, I met him once. Just.... Well, just look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Cochran don't judge a book by it's cover but i wouldn't invite him over for a beer on my stoop. Leopard skin thong, halter top, ear rings, and high heels is his preferred outfit for 6th street. He's a minor celebrity there and is generally treated well (with some isolated bad cases). He's the unofficial poster child for Austin's Keep Austin Weird campaign. I loved Austin though and will probably move back. It's equal parts hippie and redneck, old traditional Texas values and modern college age coolness, rock and country, liberal and conservative, and every other contradiction you could think of. And it's totally laid back and unbelievably beautiful. And my beloved Texas Longhorns are there. i'd love to see what austin is like. i'd consider moving to texas some day but i'd have to see what it's like first. ny taxes are killing me. as far as that dude goes, i'd raise a red flag if he was a guest speaker at an elemetary school. i'm not a football fan but just tell me where i can find the best barbeque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Monkey Business Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 BU2B is an awesome song and deals with a very relevant and important topic, if people want to side step it, ignore it or say they are uncomfortable with it then it is because of their own conflicitions with their faith. Too many don't want to hear about or address real issues and would rather hear some irrelevant happy song which doesn't upset anyone or make a relevant point. Personally I think Neils lyrics are spot on and I love all of S&A. Clockwork Angels is shaping up to be one of the best Rush albums of all time IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun3701 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 funny how the cross has become this religious icon, when it was originally a Roman torture/execution device. Imagine some point in the future people erecting giant electric chairs, or wearing electric chairs around their necks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:43 PM) funny how the cross has become this religious icon, when it was originally a Roman torture/execution device. Imagine some point in the future people erecting giant electric chairs, or wearing electric chairs around their necks. Yeah, it seems odd but there may be a good explanation I don't know of. Sunday School was a long time ago for me and I didn't exactly pay much attention at the time anyway. I enjoyed the coloring books though. And I don't know how to say this without going into dangerous territory but simply as a matter of historical record there was nothing unusual about crucifixions, they were very common and quite horrible. Many, many non-Jews/Christians were also put to the cross. One of the biggest advantages of Roman citizenship was that you were exempted from ever being crucified. So, they had that going for them... which is nice. Maybe we should get back to barbeque, In the Mood, and Bieber's head on a pike now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielmclark Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:54 PM) QUOTE (shaun3701 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:43 PM) funny how the cross has become this religious icon, when it was originally a Roman torture/execution device. Imagine some point in the future people erecting giant electric chairs, or wearing electric chairs around their necks. Yeah, it seems odd but there may be a good explanation I don't know of. Sunday School was a long time ago for me and I didn't exactly pay much attention at the time anyway. I enjoyed the coloring books though. And I don't know how to say this without going into dangerous territory but simply as a matter of historical record there was nothing unusual about crucifixions, they were very common and quite horrible. Many, many non-Jews/Christians were also put to the cross. One of the biggest advantages of Roman citizenship was that you were exempted from ever being crucified. So, they had that going for them... which is nice. Maybe we should get back to barbeque, In the Mood, and Bieber's head on a pike now. Bieber strung up on a cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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