-D-RocK- Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 11:55 AM) QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 01:11 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 09:45 AM) If it turns out that the new album explores yet again the same old issues, I seriously will save my money and buy something more worthwhile. Help us understand why song lyrics bother you so much Kelly.......? Why does it bother you if I choose to not buy a Rush album? I can assure you it doesn't bother one bit. And if you're not comfortable with my questions I certainly understand and will not pursue the matter any further. Good day sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Oct 15 2010, 01:37 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 14 2010, 01:49 PM)Guess you find thinking for oneself to be a bad thing since that seems to be the primary "message" of the lyrics. Yes. That's it exactly. It is. Some people just blindly accept what they were 'brought up to believe' in without ever questioning those beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:07 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 01:00 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 15 2010, 11:13 AM) You people - some of you at least - are hopeless. Saying that Neil is rehashing old ideas, can't come up with anything new, blah, blah, blah is like saying that Stephen King hasn't written anything new in 40 years just because he still writes horror fiction. Anne Rice hasn't written anything new because she's still doing supernatural fiction. It's ridiculous. Neil has a style of writing and a general theme that he sticks to. He's been doing it for nearly 40 years. But now you're all pissed off because his lyrics are a little more obvious than they used to be? Go look at the back catalog - BU2B, thematically, has been there in some form or another nearly since the beginning. What would be a major departure for him is if he did a song all about loving god and following jesus - like every third country music tune does. Also, you guys are blowing this Dawkins thing WAY out of proportion. you mean neil didn't get any inspiration from dawkins? the guy wrote a book with the title "the blind watchmaker". The fact that he sees eye-to-eye with Dawkins doesn't mean that Dawkins caused him to think that way all of a sudden. Someone a couple pages back said that this is Neil's "new philosophy" because he read Dawkins and it's not. He has always had the same views (at least since he's been a writer) that he has now. Why is that so hard? The Watchmaker idea dates back to the early 1800s which is a little before Dawkins. i never said it caused him to think like that all the sudden but it's no secret that neil's read some of his books and used it as inspiration for his lyrics. i know the term watchmaker has been around long before dawkins but it all ties together. look at the tune out of the cradle from vt. his inspiration was from a poem he read by whitman. it is what is. some tunes we'll like and some we won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 02:25 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:07 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 01:00 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 15 2010, 11:13 AM) You people - some of you at least - are hopeless. Saying that Neil is rehashing old ideas, can't come up with anything new, blah, blah, blah is like saying that Stephen King hasn't written anything new in 40 years just because he still writes horror fiction. Anne Rice hasn't written anything new because she's still doing supernatural fiction. It's ridiculous. Neil has a style of writing and a general theme that he sticks to. He's been doing it for nearly 40 years. But now you're all pissed off because his lyrics are a little more obvious than they used to be? Go look at the back catalog - BU2B, thematically, has been there in some form or another nearly since the beginning. What would be a major departure for him is if he did a song all about loving god and following jesus - like every third country music tune does. Also, you guys are blowing this Dawkins thing WAY out of proportion. you mean neil didn't get any inspiration from dawkins? the guy wrote a book with the title "the blind watchmaker". The fact that he sees eye-to-eye with Dawkins doesn't mean that Dawkins caused him to think that way all of a sudden. Someone a couple pages back said that this is Neil's "new philosophy" because he read Dawkins and it's not. He has always had the same views (at least since he's been a writer) that he has now. Why is that so hard? The Watchmaker idea dates back to the early 1800s which is a little before Dawkins. i never said it caused him to think like that all the sudden but it's no secret that neil's read some of his books and used it as inspiration for his lyrics. i know the term watchmaker has been around long before dawkins but it all ties together. look at the tune out of the cradle from vt. his inspiration was from a poem he read by whitman. it is what is. some tunes we'll like and some we won't. Read link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 01:19 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 11:55 AM) QUOTE (-D-RocK- @ Oct 15 2010, 01:11 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 09:45 AM) If it turns out that the new album explores yet again the same old issues, I seriously will save my money and buy something more worthwhile. Help us understand why song lyrics bother you so much Kelly.......? Why does it bother you if I choose to not buy a Rush album? I can assure you it doesn't bother one bit. And if you're not comfortable with my questions I certainly understand and will not pursue the matter any further. Good day sir. I agree and I said very plainly that you're under no obligation to buy or support anything you don't want, obviously. I don't care. But since we're talking about it I'd just like to understand why you didn't quit supporting them in 1991 or 1980 if that's really the problem. I'm not saying you shouldn't feel the way you do, I just don't understand why you do all of a sudden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 01:25 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:07 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 01:00 PM) QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 15 2010, 11:13 AM) You people - some of you at least - are hopeless. Saying that Neil is rehashing old ideas, can't come up with anything new, blah, blah, blah is like saying that Stephen King hasn't written anything new in 40 years just because he still writes horror fiction. Anne Rice hasn't written anything new because she's still doing supernatural fiction. It's ridiculous. Neil has a style of writing and a general theme that he sticks to. He's been doing it for nearly 40 years. But now you're all pissed off because his lyrics are a little more obvious than they used to be? Go look at the back catalog - BU2B, thematically, has been there in some form or another nearly since the beginning. What would be a major departure for him is if he did a song all about loving god and following jesus - like every third country music tune does. Also, you guys are blowing this Dawkins thing WAY out of proportion. you mean neil didn't get any inspiration from dawkins? the guy wrote a book with the title "the blind watchmaker". The fact that he sees eye-to-eye with Dawkins doesn't mean that Dawkins caused him to think that way all of a sudden. Someone a couple pages back said that this is Neil's "new philosophy" because he read Dawkins and it's not. He has always had the same views (at least since he's been a writer) that he has now. Why is that so hard? The Watchmaker idea dates back to the early 1800s which is a little before Dawkins. i never said it caused him to think like that all the sudden but it's no secret that neil's read some of his books and used it as inspiration for his lyrics. i know the term watchmaker has been around long before dawkins but it all ties together. look at the tune out of the cradle from vt. his inspiration was from a poem he read by whitman. it is what is. some tunes we'll like and some we won't. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:22 PM) QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Oct 15 2010, 01:37 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 14 2010, 01:49 PM)Guess you find thinking for oneself to be a bad thing since that seems to be the primary "message" of the lyrics. Yes. That's it exactly. It is. Some people just blindly accept what they were 'brought up to believe' in without ever questioning those beliefs. neil seems to be one sided though with this. how bout the flip side of the coin neil? someone who was 'brought up to believe' the nonexistence of any higher power. can that person blindly believe without ever questioning that kind of belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 02:31 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:22 PM) QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Oct 15 2010, 01:37 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 14 2010, 01:49 PM)Guess you find thinking for oneself to be a bad thing since that seems to be the primary "message" of the lyrics. Yes. That's it exactly. It is. Some people just blindly accept what they were 'brought up to believe' in without ever questioning those beliefs. neil seems to be one sided though with this. how bout the flip of the coin neil? someone who was 'brought up to believe' the nonexistence of any higher power. isn't that person blindly believing without ever questioning that kind of belief? Was Neil brought up to not believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 It's just remarkable how the belief in God and/or a religion is always promoted and preached all over the place yet as soon as someone starts promoting and preaching the opposite, people start getting all bent out of shape. Why is it THAT one-sided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 01:31 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:22 PM) QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Oct 15 2010, 01:37 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 14 2010, 01:49 PM)Guess you find thinking for oneself to be a bad thing since that seems to be the primary "message" of the lyrics. Yes. That's it exactly. It is. Some people just blindly accept what they were 'brought up to believe' in without ever questioning those beliefs. neil seems to be one sided though with this. how bout the flip of the coin neil? someone who was 'brought up to believe' the nonexistence of any higher power. isn't that person blindly believing without ever questioning that kind of belief? Do we know (serious question, I don't know) what religious background/history his family has or how he was raised? Personally, I was raised as a Catholic. I never had any sort of angry rebellion against it though, it just never sunk in in the first place. It just doesn't stand up to thorough intelligent inspection in my mind so I dropped it. I don't know if Neil went through a rejection phase or if he just never was immersed in it in the first place. Maybe his parents are atheists and he was brought up with that bias. I just don't know. My only point is that a rational person should still be able to decide for themselves regardless of how they were raised eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:35 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Oct 15 2010, 02:31 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:22 PM) QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Oct 15 2010, 01:37 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 14 2010, 01:49 PM)Guess you find thinking for oneself to be a bad thing since that seems to be the primary "message" of the lyrics. Yes. That's it exactly. It is. Some people just blindly accept what they were 'brought up to believe' in without ever questioning those beliefs. neil seems to be one sided though with this. how bout the flip of the coin neil? someone who was 'brought up to believe' the nonexistence of any higher power. isn't that person blindly believing without ever questioning that kind of belief? Was Neil brought up to not believe? who knows but i'm sure types of people on both sides blindly believe without questioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjtull Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:38 PM) It's just remarkable how the belief in God and/or a religion is always promoted and preached all over the place yet as soon as someone starts promoting and preaching the opposite, people start getting all bent out of shape. Why is it THAT one-sided? I was about to post the same line of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost In Xanadu Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Whether you believe or not is not the point. Thinking about what it means to you is what is important. If his lyrics make you "believe less" then your beliefs weren't that strong in the first place, and you're seeking out your own answers. If it strengthens what you believe, then that is good too. Don't blindly follow anything, let yourself be your guide, and once you find what you're looking for, hold to those beliefs. Take in as much as you can and reach your own conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:44 PM) Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. You're missing the point. He's not necessarily talking about YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReflectedLight Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:38 PM) It's just remarkable how the belief in God and/or a religion is always promoted and preached all over the place yet as soon as someone starts promoting and preaching the opposite, people start getting all bent out of shape. Why is it THAT one-sided? promoted and preached all over the place? where do you live? here in nyc it's the opposite or i never see much of it. i've actually seen vans driven around with signs on the side that are against it so yea it's promoted and preached in my neck of the woods by opposite of what you're getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjtull Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:44 PM) Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. That's fine. But realize you made the choice for a dogma that has already been laid out for "believers" to follow. If there's a difference, I guess that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:48 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:44 PM) Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. You're missing the point. He's not necessarily talking about YOU. And if you do indeed think for yourself then his little lyrical exercise shouldn't bother you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:48 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:44 PM) Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. You're missing the point. He's not necessarily talking about YOU. I was being general and just using myself as a fan. Neil is probably talking to the fans by saying "stop listening to everything I write and think for yourselves, these lyrics are about me and me alone". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:50 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:48 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:44 PM) Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. You're missing the point. He's not necessarily talking about YOU. And if you do indeed think for yourself then his little lyrical exercise shouldn't bother you. Repetitive redundancy bothers me. Some fans here think Neil pisses showers of gold though - that's what is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (Lost In Xanadu @ Oct 15 2010, 01:46 PM) Whether you believe or not is not the point. Thinking about what it means to you is what is important. If his lyrics make you "believe less" then your beliefs weren't that strong in the first place, and you're seeking out your own answers. If it strengthens what you believe, then that is good too. Don't blindly follow anything, let yourself be your guide, and once you find what you're looking for, hold to those beliefs. Take in as much as you can and reach your own conclusion. Yep. I just don't think anyone with true religious convictions needs to feel uncomfortable or threatened by Rush's lyrics because both in his lyrics and in his prose Neil clearly explains that his view works for him. He never says others should have the same attitude. He's expressed that clearly multiple times. You can choose X, I will choose Y, I don't have faith, I don't believe, etc. Enjoy the songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:51 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:48 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:44 PM) Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. You're missing the point. He's not necessarily talking about YOU. I was being general and just using myself as a fan. Neil is probably talking to the fans by saying "stop listening to everything I write and think for yourselves, these lyrics are about me and me alone". Perhaps these lyrics are just 'designed' to encourage people to think (and even debate), just like many of his lyrics. If so, he's apparently done a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:52 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:50 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:48 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:44 PM) Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. You're missing the point. He's not necessarily talking about YOU. And if you do indeed think for yourself then his little lyrical exercise shouldn't bother you. Repetitive redundancy bothers me. Some fans here think Neil pisses showers of gold though - that's what is scary. Not me. The lyrics to Faithless are awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:54 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:52 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:50 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:48 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:44 PM) Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. You're missing the point. He's not necessarily talking about YOU. And if you do indeed think for yourself then his little lyrical exercise shouldn't bother you. Repetitive redundancy bothers me. Some fans here think Neil pisses showers of gold though - that's what is scary. Not me. The lyrics to Faithless are awful. Whether one thinks Peart's lyrics are a constant stream of 'genius' or not is besides the point though. People here seem to be taking issue primarily with the content or "message" of these lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 01:52 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 03:50 PM) QUOTE (savagegrace26 @ Oct 15 2010, 02:48 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Oct 15 2010, 02:44 PM) Personally, I do think for myself. I made my choices and I'm satisfied. I don't need Neil to justify something I already knew. If someone is saying that people who are religious don't think for themselves, then "think" again. You're missing the point. He's not necessarily talking about YOU. And if you do indeed think for yourself then his little lyrical exercise shouldn't bother you. Repetitive redundancy bothers me. Some fans here think Neil pisses showers of gold though - that's what is scary. Oh, please. This strikes me as the same dismissive attitude where somebody says "How could you possibly like that song? You just like it because you're a drooling fanboy!" I don't see anybody worshipping Neil here but it frustrates you that others agree with him so therefore we're blind followers. Which is really ironic considering what we're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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