snowdogged Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 First of all I would like to say that I think Neil is the greatest drummer in the history of Rock and also one of the best lyricists. However, I have been seeing a lot of posts in this forum insinuating that Rush would be nothing without him. It really seems that a lot of people don't give Alex and Geddy enough credit. I think that their debut album is one of the best straight forward Rock albums ever recorded. Also, you have to remember that Alex and Geddy write all of the music and probably have more influence in what style of music they are composing than Neil does. Sure, they would have gone in different musical directions without Neil. But to just come out and say they would never have made it without him is wrong in my opinion. This is very far from bashing Neil. I just think the other two guys deserve a little more credit. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvgeddy05 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I think lyrically, Neil really makes the band complete, no matter how awesome his drumming is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRocinanteKid Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 It's impossible to say without Neil Rush would've fell apart after the first or second record, it's also impossible to say they could've worked withot him. Nobody will ever know that, if (Or Geddy or Alex) decide to leave Rush it will be over, that much is true. We've all read about how Neil would write lyrics for Alex and Geddy to shape music around so perhaps he's had more influence over the final product than you're giving him credit for. I mean if all he did is write "Let's get drunk and Rock N' Roll!" it would be hard for Geddy and Alex to turn that into a 20 minute conceptual piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echoes Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I have thought about that. But Alex and Geddy hardly have interest in writing lyrics. I don't think they would've lasted long with things like "I said I'm coming out to get you!" Haha. Love that song, but you get my point, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRocinanteKid Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 QUOTE (Echoes @ Mar 9 2008, 01:46 AM) I have thought about that. But Alex and Geddy hardly have interest in writing lyrics. I don't think they would've lasted long with things like "I said I'm coming out to get you!" Haha. Love that song, but you get my point, right? That could be disputed... I mean haven't AC/DC and Kiss lasted just as long as Rush with some of the worst lyrics around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choose/the/light Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 when i first saw this thread, i was just going to post a big WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH ALL THE RECENT RUSH HATE-AGE!!!! but then i read the post and i somewhat agree all three members are equally responseble for what Rush is. Geddy and Alex's writing/playing style works perfectly with Neils Lyric and drumming style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 QUOTE (Echoes @ Mar 8 2008, 08:46 PM) I have thought about that. But Alex and Geddy hardly have interest in writing lyrics. I don't think they would've lasted long with things like "I said I'm coming out to get you!" Haha. Love that song, but you get my point, right? They were just kids when they wrote those lyrics. They probably would have grown lyrically just as they would have musically. I'm sure the lyrics would not be anything near what Neil has done but how many lyricists can compare to Neil. It feels sort of stupid discussing this because no one can ever say what would have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I agree. Neil Peart is awesome no damn questions asked. But Rush needs Geddy and Alex to survive. They all equally contribute a different style and way of doing things. Thats what makes who they are. So together they are a three piece puzzle. Without one piece the puzzle wouldnt be complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCFIELDS Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Wow man......you're not very good at thread titles, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I basically said this same thing in the other thread about Rush getting lucky finding Neil. It's not like Geddy and Alex managed to snag Bonham at the time and were pulled upwards, Neil was even less successful without them than they were without him. They're all equally valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Mar 8 2008, 09:13 PM) Wow man......you're not very good at thread titles, eh? Lol yeah that title got me a bit worked up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfratt Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 QUOTE (TheRocinanteKid @ Mar 8 2008, 08:43 PM)We've all read about how Neil would write lyrics for Alex and Geddy to shape music around so perhaps he's had more influence over the final product than you're giving him credit for. I mean if all he did is write "Let's get drunk and Rock N' Roll!" it would be hard for Geddy and Alex to turn that into a 20 minute conceptual piece. What leads to a 20 minute conceptual piece is lots and lots of + + + + + + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Mar 8 2008, 09:13 PM) Wow man......you're not very good at thread titles, eh? These type of thread titles seem to get noticed a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 listen to the first album and tell me that Neil is overrated. two more albums like that and they would be done a la Grand Funk or Foghat. I love Geddy and Alex but Neil's arrival seems like divine intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theredtamasrule Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE (snowdogged @ Mar 8 2008, 08:38 PM) First of all I would like to say that I think Neil is the greatest drummer in the history of Rock and also one of the best lyricists. However, I have been seeing a lot of posts in this forum insinuating that Rush would be nothing without him. It really seems that a lot of people don't give Alex and Geddy enough credit. I think that their debut album is one of the best straight forward Rock albums ever recorded. Also, you have to remember that Alex and Geddy write all of the music and probably have more influence in what style of music they are composing than Neil does. Sure, they would have gone in different musical directions without Neil. But to just come out and say they would never have made it without him is wrong in my opinion. This is very far from bashing Neil. I just think the other two guys deserve a little more credit. Thank you I think it's hard to underestimate what a great drummer can bring to a band. Knowing that someone is laying it down, won't get lost and has some serious chops allows the guitar & bass to open up and explore without worry...kinda like a safety net. All the great bands in history, be it jazz or rock, had great drummers. Suffice to say that without Neil, without Alex or without Ged....they'd all be playing the local VFW or barn dance if the three of them didn't come together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakly Criminal Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE The fact that RUSH is the longest lived rock band with the same line up I think ZZ Top would contest this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebernreuter Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE (snowdogged @ Mar 8 2008, 08:38 PM) It really seems that a lot of people don't give Alex and Geddy enough credit. I think that their debut album is one of the best straight forward Rock albums ever recorded. Also, you have to remember that Alex and Geddy write all of the music and probably have more influence in what style of music they are composing than Neil does. Yeah but their lyrics suck ass. Rush the album is great? I think it is their worst by far. Without Neil's drumming and lyrics, Rush would be about as popular and long-lived as Triumph was, i.e. not very. Is this that MarathonDrummer guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdogged Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE (thebernreuter @ Mar 10 2008, 01:13 AM) QUOTE (snowdogged @ Mar 8 2008, 08:38 PM) It really seems that a lot of people don't give Alex and Geddy enough credit. I think that their debut album is one of the best straight forward Rock albums ever recorded. Also, you have to remember that Alex and Geddy write all of the music and probably have more influence in what style of music they are composing than Neil does. Yeah but their lyrics suck ass. Rush the album is great? I think it is their worst by far. Without Neil's drumming and lyrics, Rush would be about as popular and long-lived as Triumph was, i.e. not very. Is this that MarathonDrummer guy? I think their debut album blows T4E out of the water. In my opinion it's a much better album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borough of Shmeng Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 We could switch this around and say that Alex or Geddy are overrated and put similar arguments forward. Quite simply Rush are only Rush because of the whole being much larger than the sum of their parts. Individually they are all fine musicians with a certain element they contribute in the creation of the music, but without any one of the 3 there is no way we would have the band that exists today. Maybe we would have something we liked and maybe not, but it wouldnt be Rush. As for the first album being better than T4E the simple answer is no it isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandalorian Hunter Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Geddy's lyrics weren't too bad on MFH, so they might have been able to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog Brian Kidd Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE (Borough of Shmeng @ Mar 10 2008, 08:16 AM) As for the first album being better than T4E the simple answer is no it isnt. Wrong, completely and utterly wrong. The debut is better than any Rush release post Signals. It may be derivative but it has passion, and drive, and intent, and it flat out ROCKS!!!!!! And to those who don\'t consider teh debut to be a album, I pity you. What does it say on the tin???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borough of Shmeng Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE (Analog Brian Kidd @ Mar 10 2008, 02:26 PM) QUOTE (Borough of Shmeng @ Mar 10 2008, 08:16 AM) As for the first album being better than T4E the simple answer is no it isnt. Wrong, completely and utterly wrong. The debut is better than any Rush release post Signals. It may be derivative but it has passion, and drive, and intent, and it flat out ROCKS!!!!!! And to those who don\'t consider teh debut to be a album, I pity you. What does it say on the tin???????? First album better than Grace Under Pressure or Power Windows??? You are of course welcome to your opinion, I don't for a minute think that T4E is anywhere near their best work, but the first album is really just a curiosity, a kitsch bit of fun. Geddy wrote the lyrics in about 20 mins because Rutsey who been promising lyrics forever couldnt be asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 QUOTE Wrong, completely and utterly wrong. The debut is better than any Rush release post Signals. I just can't understand this beyond pure nostalgia. I think the first album is fun for what it is and different opinions are fine but this is just insane to me. I mean, I don't mean to be insulting but this just doesn't even seem rational. This is like saying that Kurt Cobain was a better guitarist than Eric Johnson, I guess if that's your opinion then fine but wow. I even said in the S&A vs. VT thread that VT was my least favorite album even though I still find lots to like on it but I realize that the only reason I said that is because I didn't even really consider the first album in my math. Hell, I almost consider Feedback more of a real Rush album than the debut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrigyttiw Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I often think about this, and I think about it like this, and this is definitely outside the box: Rush is a car... Neil is the speed, he sets the tempo... Alex is driving the car, the solos taking us around curves... Geddy is the fuel... vocals and bass without the 3 elements, the car is going nowhere... for what it's worth. this may not make sense to anyone else, but it does to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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