No bad Rush album

[toymaker]

I generally really dig each member as a musician, so I just enjoy hearing them play. Often the songs I don't much care for are the ones in which they don't seem to playing up to their full potential. Especially Alex - I know that he's better than open G and D chords (Half the World) - but usually one of the other guys will save it (I like the bass and drumming in that tune).

[Permanent-Rush]

I don't think they have any bad albums. Bad songs certainly but no overall bad albums.

 

I totally agree man. I think they have a couple clunkers in terms of songs (Tain Shan, Virtuallity, etc etc) but no bad albums by any means, and these clunkers imo aren't even the worst songs ever, just songs I would prefer listening to once a month. Imo they don't take away from the albums in any sense, but they just aren't as good as songs like Natural Science and Kid Gloves, etc etc.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Permanent-Rush

[jnoble]

To me Ged and Alex could only compose a good or even great song if they were given good or great lyrics by Neil to work with. I noticed my enjoyment of Neil's lyrics started going downhill starting with Counterparts and incrementally worse with each album after that. I can only tolerate 2 songs on S&A , one of which is an instrumental, because frankly there is no musician on the planet who could've taken the lyrics Peart wrote for that album and fashioned a memorable catchy kick ass song around them.

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

By any chance, do you have a link to that interview with Alex you’re referring to? I had never heard that Alex wasn’t really into that album. Regarding Victor, I thought that came after T4E? There was a long hiatus between T4E and Vapor Trails. I thought both Ged and Alex did their albums after T4E

 

It’s interesting you say that about Alex and that album, because I always felt Alex’s work on that album was the only saving grace. I consider T4E a great Alex album with some really cool riffs and bridges by Alex. The problem is he’s trying to rock out to the most atrocious lyrics Neil ever wrote for Rush (I also agree that Snakes is really bad too). DognYears opens with that really cool riff and is in most of the song, but when Geddy comes in with doggie heaven and a sniff at the hydrant it’s just too ridiculous.

Virtuality is the same thing. Cool Guutar. Worst lyrics on a

Rush song of all time.

 

Anyway, just my .02 Cents on T4E

 

[LeaveMyThingAlone]

I’ve decided that my 3 least favorite Rush albums are Vapor Trails, Test for Echo, and Snakes and Arrows. I’ve noticed a lot of others mentioning those 3 more than any other as well.’ I would normally say that it’s just a sign of a great band hitting their inevitable decline, but then they come out with Clockwork Angels and totally redeem the latter part of their career. I think I have more and more of an appreciation for that album based on the redemption value that comes with it. A really remarkable way to

go out.

 

[Wil1972]

By any chance, do you have a link to that interview with Alex you’re referring to? I had never heard that Alex wasn’t really into that album. Regarding Victor, I thought that came after T4E? There was a long hiatus between T4E and Vapor Trails. I thought both Ged and Alex did their albums after T4E

 

It’s interesting you say that about Alex and that album, because I always felt Alex’s work on that album was the only saving grace. I consider T4E a great Alex album with some really cool riffs and bridges by Alex. The problem is he’s trying to rock out to the most atrocious lyrics Neil ever wrote for Rush (I also agree that Snakes is really bad too). DognYears opens with that really cool riff and is in most of the song, but when Geddy comes in with doggie heaven and a sniff at the hydrant it’s just too ridiculous.

Virtuality is the same thing. Cool Guutar. Worst lyrics on a

Rush song of all time.

 

Anyway, just my .02 Cents on T4E

 

I can't find the exact quote at the moment but it's alluded to in this article about Victor:

 

"Rush’s next record, Test for Echo, was out before the end of the year, and though Lifeson later admitted to suffering some culture shock when returning to the band environment after experiencing the freedom of being in charge of his project, the group quickly settled back into a groove."

 

Read More: That Time Alex Lifeson Took a Solo Detour From Rush With 'Victor' | http://ultimateclassicrock.com/alex-lifeson-victor/?trackback=tsmclip

[Wil1972]

And this:

 

 

"I finished Victor the second week of September, had two weeks off, and then we started this album. So I had been playing all year, I was very confident about my playing, and I was really fired up. I just felt like I had a clearer picture of what I wanted the guitar’s presence to be, and I wanted to focus more on the songwriting, really develop the arrangements and all of that.

"When Ged and I first got together, that first week was really rough. I really wasn’t sure if I wanted to do it anymore. We went to the same place to write, the set-up was all the same, but having the experience of doing my own album was so fresh, and to be in control was a new experience for me, so that first week Ged and I…I think we spent three-quarters of our work time just talking. We’d sit outside and talk for hours about a lot of different things: how we’re developing as people, what interests us, what’s becoming important, how our priorities are shifting. We kind of left it at, “let’s see how the first couple of weeks go and if it’s not there we won’t do it.” We’ve always said that if the spark was gone then that’s when we’re going to stop, we’re not going to milk it. And the following week we wrote five songs. We came back in so pumped."

 

 

http://paulsemel.com...eson-from-1996/

Edited June 7, 2018 by Wil1972

[goose]

^^^ :goodone:

[taurus]

I don't think there are any bad Rush albums because of one underlying fact - every time those guys went into the studio to create the next record, there was an honest effort to do a good record. To challenge themselves a bit and not retread conquered territory. Of course not every record was great or better than the last, but the bedrock of integrity meant there were no disasters. T4E and RTB are my least faves and I still really like half the material

[Segue Myles]

I don't think there are any bad Rush albums because of one underlying fact - every time those guys went into the studio to create the next record, there was an honest effort to do a good record. To challenge themselves a bit and not retread conquered territory. Of course not every record was great or better than the last, but the bedrock of integrity meant there were no disasters. T4E and RTB are my least faves and I still really like half the material

 

That argument could be made for almost every album ever.

[Permanent-Rush]

TFE is my fav Rush album tbh

[Alien Girl]

Admittedly TFE and RTB fall fairly far down the list and are not the best albums in their discography by a long shot. But each one happened at a particularly point in my life to make them both ring nostalgic for me. Yeah, there are some stinkers on each, but there are also quite a few songs that I absolutely love. So yeah, not perfect, but also (to me, at least) worth not completely dismissing.

[jnoble]

I never thought TFE sounded nearly as good production wise as Counterparts did before it despite using the same guitars and Peter Collins back producing. Alex's choice of tone was too fuzzy and distorted and Geddys bass sounded kind of crappy too. The whole mix sounds "off" to me (lyrics aside) start to finish. Parts of Limbo for example are a wall of layered noise , something that would be a problem again on Vapor Trails later down the road

[diatribein]

I never thought TFE sounded nearly as good production wise as Counterparts did before it despite using the same guitars and Peter Collins back producing. Alex's choice of tone was too fuzzy and distorted and Geddys bass sounded kind of crappy too. The whole mix sounds "off" to me (lyrics aside) start to finish. Parts of Limbo for example are a wall of layered noise , something that would be a problem again on Vapor Trails later down the road

 

Try the 96 kHz / 24 bit flac download that came with the 2015 200 Gram Vinyl release. It has a dynamic range that is comparable to anything released in the 70s/80s.

[jnoble]

Ill take your word for it but no remaster or alternate format is going to change the actual tones and sounds and guitars they chose to use to record the album. Just like the people who are convinced that if Presto is remastered and EQ'd enough its suddenly going to sound more aggressive. It all goes back to the source material

[diatribein]

Ill take your word for it but no remaster or alternate format is going to change the actual tones and sounds and guitars they chose to use to record the album. Just like the people who are convinced that if Presto is remastered and EQ'd enough its suddenly going to sound more aggressive. It all goes back to the source material

 

Right, so with Presto & Roll The Bones it is a production issue that could only be corrected with a complete remix. Choices were made to give both of those albums a very high-end bias sound that resulted in a tinny and flat overall mix. The 24 bit 48 kHz versions of those two albums don't really make a significant difference. Counterparts & Test For Echo are not produced the same way and have a much fuller sound. Their problem is that 1993 is the start of the loudness war and mastering techniques changed to create the "wall of layered noise" you described. Due to the progressive nature of the loudness war, Test For Echo suffers more from that than Counterparts. The version mastered for the vinyl re-release and digital flac files corrects those mastering issues. I think you would be surprised at how different it sounds. I would say that the production itself is almost identical to Counterparts if comparing the better mastered versions of the 2 albums.

Edited June 10, 2018 by diatribein

[losingit2k]

No Bad Rush Albums but TFE and CoS come close!

[jnoble]

My sonic issues are more along the lines, again, of the particular instruments and tones they chose to record with. For example, with Limbo and then used again on multiple songs on Vapor Trails Alex thought that layers of distorted guitars on songs was the way to go and , even outside of whoever mixed and produced it, I think it just sounds too chaotic and busy. Clockwork suffers from this too, the "choir of guitar layers" effect

[jnoble]

Alex's choice of guitar tones & sonics on Roll The Bones is the album that grinds my gears. Chimey treble-ey no grit to it whatsoever on pretty much every song. "But what about Presto or HYF or PoW??" one may ask. Well yeah those too but RTB is the album he really had no balls to his sound at all and it detracts from the songs. The earler albums it didn't really bother me. Thankfully they fixed those things beautifully on Counterparts

[Segue Myles]

No Bad Rush Albums but TFE and CoS come close!

 

Caress Of Steel is better than 2112 and Hemispheres.

[bluefox4000]

No Bad Rush Albums but TFE and CoS come close!

 

:crazy:

 

COS is one of the best things they did in the 70's

 

holds together as an album better than 2112.

 

Mick

[taurus]

I don't think there are any bad Rush albums because of one underlying fact - every time those guys went into the studio to create the next record, there was an honest effort to do a good record. To challenge themselves a bit and not retread conquered territory. Of course not every record was great or better than the last, but the bedrock of integrity meant there were no disasters. T4E and RTB are my least faves and I still really like half the material

 

That argument could be made for almost every album ever.

 

Naw - often there are contractual obligation records or bands with serious drug/alcohol problems or bands coming apart at the seems. Sure within that frame work someone is giving it their all but not everyone was pulling their weight or gave a crap. A couple of examples off the top of my head. KISS - Unmasked. The band was in tatters Peter and Ace were caring less and less, Gene had his mind on an acting career and the results show it. Deep Purple - House of Blue LIght, again the band was coming apart and the album doesn't have the feel of its' predecessor. Or the contractually obligated April Wine record "Walking Through Fire" Pee-ew. You get the idea.

 

My point was that Rush unlike so many of their contemporaries - were remarkably professional and consistent in their approach to creating their art and their catalogue reflects that by having no trash albums. As previously suggested, not every record was a masterpiece but all have something good to offer. JUst an opinion there are no facts to debate. You or others may think Unmasked is a great record or Zeppelin's In Through the Out Door is a classic

Edited June 18, 2018 by taurus

[diatribein]

I don't think there are any bad Rush albums because of one underlying fact - every time those guys went into the studio to create the next record, there was an honest effort to do a good record. To challenge themselves a bit and not retread conquered territory. Of course not every record was great or better than the last, but the bedrock of integrity meant there were no disasters. T4E and RTB are my least faves and I still really like half the material

 

That argument could be made for almost every album ever.

 

Naw - often there are contractual obligation records or bands with serious drug/alcohol problems or bands coming apart at the seems. Sure within that frame work someone is giving it their all but not everyone was pulling their weight or gave a crap. A couple of examples off the top of my head. KISS - Unmasked. The band was in tatters Peter and Ace were caring less and less, Gene had his mind on an acting career and the results show it. Deep Purple - House of Blue LIght, again the band was coming apart and the album doesn't have the feel of its' predecessor. Or the contractually obligated April Wine record "Walking Through Fire" Pee-ew. You get the idea.

 

My point was that Rush unlike so many of their contemporaries - were remarkably professional and consistent in their approach to creating their art and their catalogue reflects that by having no trash albums. As previously suggested, not every record was a masterpiece but all have something good to offer. JUst an opinion there are no facts to debate. You or others may think Unmasked is a great record or Zeppelin's In Through the Out Door is a classic

 

As a recovering KISS fan ( I was a huge fan for most of my youth) I have to just correct some inaccuracies in what you said. Peter Criss played NO PART of the writing, recording, promotion, or touring on Unmasked. He left the band entirely after the Dynasty tour. All of the drums on Unmasked (and Dynasty except Dirty Livin) were played by Anton Fig, who was friends with Ace Frehley and played on his solo album as well as Frehley's Comet. Upon completion of the album, KISS auditioned drummers and selected Eric Carr who would play a one off show with the band at the Palladium in NYC before heading off to Europe for a promotional and concert tour. The extent of Peter's involvement with the band was being depicted in the cartoon on the cover. This was mostly a contractual thing due to him still having a share of the band.

 

As far as Ace goes, Dynasty & Unmasked represent a time when he was MOST ENGAGED with the band. He wrote 3 songs for Unmasked (high water mark) and 2 for Dynasty, plus taking the lead singing duties and being entirely responsible for the band covering the Rolling Stones song 2000 Man. Arguably, Torpedo Girl, Talk To Me, and Two Sides of the Coin are amongst Frehleys best contributions to the band and in many ways was keeping them afloat at the time. Talk To Me was the second single in most territories and the biggest hit from the album in Australia and several European countries. The reason Unmasked failed in the United States (it was a hit in Europe & Australia) had a lot more to do with the fact that they were being viewed as an out of date kiddy band in part due to the merchandising overload and that most of the Dynasty tour shows had many a preteen in attendance! Simply put, it became very unfashionable to like KISS in 1980. It is possible that many people also disliked the music on Unmasked, but Ace, Paul, and even Gene were still very engaged with the music at that point.

 

That leads me to another inaccuracy: Gene Simmons' acting career did NOT start until the end of the Lick It Up tour. His first non-KISS related acting credit was Runaway which filmed and was released in 1984. The first album that really suffers due to Gene's disinterest and neglect is Animalize, where Gene's songs are a bunch of castoffs from the Wendy O. Williams album W.O.W.. Gene would be disinterested until Hot In The Shade, using reworked Paul songs (Love's A Deadly Weapon) and more W.O.W. cast offs like Thief In The Night. In fact, it was Gene who was the driving force behind the album that followed Unmasked. Recording the concept album (Music From) The Elder was pushed by Gene. The band had seen the drop off in sales in the US for the last two albums and Paul and Ace wanted to go in a more heavy rock direction (Don't Run by Ace and the Paul songs Nowhere To Run, Partners In Crime, Down On Your Knees, I'm A Legend Tonight, and Deadly Weapon), but Gene felt convinced that an arty concept album was the thing that would restore them to prominence. Personally I think their image was so tarnished at this time that nothing they would have released would have sold.

 

Either way, it was the ultimate direction of the music on (Music From) The Elder that left Ace disinterested and wanting to leave along with the fact that Eric Carr had no say in the band or the direction. Gene & Paul were best friends and even though they disagreed on the direction to take in 1981, Paul ultimately sided with Gene over Ace despite also wanting to take a more heavy direction. This left Ace feeling like there was no argument that he would ever win in the band as constituted at the time. He left after the very short promotional tour for The Elder. Paul and Gene still tried to court him back, but Ace was not interested and only appeared in the I Love It Loud video and album cover to fulfill contractual obligations. Even after leaving, both he and Peter still had 25% shares of the band and it was to Ace's advantage to have Creatures Of The Night succeed. Paul and Gene felt like that meant keeping the illusion of Ace still being in the band, so he played along.

 

All this to say that you may not like Unmasked along with a whole host of other people who count themselves as KISS fans, but the music written for the album has nothing to do with disinterest by the 3 members of the band or Gene's, still 4 years away, acting career. I also doubt anyone ever bought a Kiss album for Dirty Livin, Hooligan, or because of the drumming, so Peter being actually gone (without anyone knowing it) was not a factor either.

Edited June 19, 2018 by diatribein

[Wil1972]

I don't think there are any bad Rush albums because of one underlying fact - every time those guys went into the studio to create the next record, there was an honest effort to do a good record. To challenge themselves a bit and not retread conquered territory. Of course not every record was great or better than the last, but the bedrock of integrity meant there were no disasters. T4E and RTB are my least faves and I still really like half the material

 

That argument could be made for almost every album ever.

 

Naw - often there are contractual obligation records or bands with serious drug/alcohol problems or bands coming apart at the seems. Sure within that frame work someone is giving it their all but not everyone was pulling their weight or gave a crap. A couple of examples off the top of my head. KISS - Unmasked. The band was in tatters Peter and Ace were caring less and less, Gene had his mind on an acting career and the results show it. Deep Purple - House of Blue LIght, again the band was coming apart and the album doesn't have the feel of its' predecessor. Or the contractually obligated April Wine record "Walking Through Fire" Pee-ew. You get the idea.

 

My point was that Rush unlike so many of their contemporaries - were remarkably professional and consistent in their approach to creating their art and their catalogue reflects that by having no trash albums. As previously suggested, not every record was a masterpiece but all have something good to offer. JUst an opinion there are no facts to debate. You or others may think Unmasked is a great record or Zeppelin's In Through the Out Door is a classic

 

As a recovering KISS fan ( I was a huge fan for most of my youth) I have to just correct some inaccuracies in what you said. Peter Criss played NO PART of the writing, recording, promotion, or touring on Unmasked. He left the band entirely after the Dynasty tour. All of the drums on Unmasked (and Dynasty except Dirty Livin) were played by Anton Fig, who was friends with Ace Frehley and played on his solo album as well as Frehley's Comet. Upon completion of the album, KISS auditioned drummers and selected Eric Carr who would play a one off show with the band at the Palladium in NYC before heading off to Europe for a promotional and concert tour. The extent of Peter's involvement with the band was being depicted in the cartoon on the cover. This was mostly a contractual thing due to him still having a share of the band.

 

As far as Ace goes, Dynasty & Unmasked represent a time when he was MOST ENGAGED with the band. He wrote 3 songs for Unmasked (high water mark) and 2 for Dynasty, plus taking the lead singing duties and being entirely responsible for the band covering the Rolling Stones song 2000 Man. Arguably, Torpedo Girl, Talk To Me, and Two Sides of the Coin are amongst Frehleys best contributions to the band and in many ways was keeping them afloat at the time. Talk To Me was the second single in most territories and the biggest hit from the album in Australia and several European countries. The reason Unmasked failed in the United States (it was a hit in Europe & Australia) had a lot more to do with the fact that they were being viewed as an out of date kiddy band in part due to the merchandising overload and that most of the Dynasty tour shows had many a preteen in attendance! Simply put, it became very unfashionable to like KISS in 1980. It is possible that many people also disliked the music on Unmasked, but Ace, Paul, and even Gene were still very engaged with the music at that point.

 

That leads me to another inaccuracy: Gene Simmons' acting career did NOT start until the end of the Lick It Up tour. His first non-KISS related acting credit was Runaway which filmed and was released in 1984. The first album that really suffers due to Gene's disinterest and neglect is Animalize, where Gene's songs are a bunch of castoffs from the Wendy O. Williams album W.O.W.. Gene would be disinterested until Hot In The Shade, using reworked Paul songs (Love's A Deadly Weapon) and more W.O.W. cast offs like Thief In The Night. In fact, it was Gene who was the driving force behind the album that followed Unmasked. Recording the concept album (Music From) The Elder was pushed by Gene. The band had seen the drop off in sales in the US for the last two albums and Paul and Ace wanted to go in a more heavy rock direction (Don't Run by Ace and the Paul songs Nowhere To Run, Partners In Crime, Down On Your Knees, I'm A Legend Tonight, and Deadly Weapon), but Gene felt convinced that an arty concept album was the thing that would restore them to prominence. Personally I think their image was so tarnished at this time that nothing they would have released would have sold.

 

Either way, it was the ultimate direction of the music on (Music From) The Elder that left Ace disinterested and wanting to leave along with the fact that Eric Carr had no say in the band or the direction. Gene & Paul were best friends and even though they disagreed on the direction to take in 1981, Paul ultimately sided with Gene over Ace despite also wanting to take a more heavy direction. This left Ace feeling like there was no argument that he would ever win in the band as constituted at the time. He left after the very short promotional tour for The Elder. Paul and Gene still tried to court him back, but Ace was not interested and only appeared in the I Love It Loud video and album cover to fulfill contractual obligations. Even after leaving, both he and Peter still had 25% shares of the band and it was to Ace's advantage to have Creatures Of The Night succeed. Paul and Gene felt like that meant keeping the illusion of Ace still being in the band, so he played along.

 

All this to say that you may not like Unmasked along with a whole host of other people who count themselves as KISS fans, but the music written for the album has nothing to do with disinterest by the 3 members of the band or Gene's, still 4 years away, acting career. I also doubt anyone ever bought a Kiss album for Dirty Livin, Hooligan, or because of the drumming, so Peter being actually gone (without anyone knowing it) was not a factor either.

 

Peter appeared in the video for Shandi. So he did participate in the promotion of Unmasked to a small degree.

[diatribein]

Peter appeared in the video for Shandi. So he did participate in the promotion of Unmasked to a small degree.

 

Oh yeah! I forgot about that! You are right. That is the last appearance of Peter Criss. Very similar to Ace on the I Love It Loud video.