The Punctuation Thread

[vaportrailer]

I saw something on the news yesterday that I thought would fit with the theme of this thread:

 

Lack of 'Oxford comma' wins truckers in US $10 mn

 

 

A class-action lawsuit about overtime pay for truck drivers hinged entirely on a debate that has often proved bitterly divisive: the dreaded - or totally necessary - Oxford comma, perhaps the most polarizing of punctuation marks.

 

What ensued in the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit, and in a 29-page court decision handed down on Monday, was an exercise in high-stakes grammar pedantry that could cost a dairy company in Portland, Maine, an estimated $10 million.

In 2014, three truck drivers sued Oakhurst Dairy, seeking more than four years' worth of overtime pay that they had been denied. Maine law requires workers to be paid 1.5 times their normal rate for each hour worked after 40 hours, but it carves out some exemptions.

A necessary note on punctuation: in a list of three or more items, like ''beans, potatoes and rice'', some people would put a comma after potatoes, and some would leave it out. A lot of people feel very, very strongly about it.

 

The debate over commas before linking words like 'and' and 'or' is often a pretty inconsequential one, but it was anything but for the truck drivers. Note the lack of Oxford comma - also known as the serial comma - in the following state law, which says overtime rules do not apply to:

The canning, processing, preserving, freezing, drying, marketing, storing, packing for shipment or distribution of:

(1) Agricultural produce;

(2) Meat and fish products; and

(3) Perishable foods.

 

Does the law intend to exempt the distribution of the three categories that follow, or does it mean to exempt packing for the shipping or distribution of them?

Delivery drivers distribute perishable foods, but they don't pack the boxes themselves. Whether the drivers were subject to a law that had denied them thousands of dollars a year depended entirely on how the sentence was read.

 

If there were a comma after ''shipment,'' it might have been clear that the law exempted the distribution of perishable foods. But the appeals court on Monday sided with the drivers, saying the absence of a comma produced enough uncertainty to rule in their favour. It reversed a lower court decision.

No comma, no clarity

In other words: Oxford comma defenders won this round.

 

''That comma would have sunk our ship,'' David G Webbert, a lawyer who represented the drivers, said in an interview on Wednesday.

 

The awesome power of the Oxford comma!

:haz:

Next topic: The Cambridge Colon and what to do with it.

 

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/polls/544000/544558_1285067195747_full.jpg?v=1285067219

[OldRUSHfan]

'...And now, for something COMPLETELY UP YOUR ASS,..."http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Character%20Gifs/av-montymonster.gif JB, what IS that sauce on those eels? Teriyaki?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/Kid%20in%20banana%20costume%20anim.gif

[JohnnyBlaze]

'...And now, for something COMPLETELY UP YOUR ASS,..."http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Character%20Gifs/av-montymonster.gif JB, what IS that sauce on those eels? Teriyaki?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/Kid%20in%20banana%20costume%20anim.gif

I'm no chef but it's a combo of soy sauce, sugar, and mystery ingredients.

 

I AM an eater though and i can tell you that the teriyaki sauce stateside isn't the same as the sauce out here.

 

Basically, this is what goes down: 90% of the time, Japan can't seem to get a pizza or hamburger right. And 90% of the time, Japanese restaurants stateside ((that I've been to of course)) can't get Japanese food right. These percentages are indisputable btw. vaportrailer already knows of my numbers and percentages wizardry

[OldRUSHfan]

'...And now, for something COMPLETELY UP YOUR ASS,..."http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Character%20Gifs/av-montymonster.gif JB, what IS that sauce on those eels? Teriyaki?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/Kid%20in%20banana%20costume%20anim.gif

I'm no chef but it's a combo of soy sauce, sugar, and mystery ingredients.

 

I AM an eater though and i can tell you that the teriyaki sauce stateside isn't the same as the sauce out here.

 

Basically, this is what goes down: 90% of the time, Japan can't seem to get a pizza or hamburger right. And 90% of the time, Japanese restaurants stateside ((that I've been to of course)) can't get Japanese food right. These percentages are indisputable btw. vaportrailer already knows of my numbers and percentages wizardry

 

Yes! I know of a Japanese Grocery store in Ann Arbor, and a Chinese one also, that purport to import all of their products directly from their home countries, so I'll have to do some driving and cooking to get The Authentic flavors...Thanks for the info though! you know the Ramen noodles that are SO POPULAR over here? I can't stand them because they'r 90% SALT. The ones I buy at the chinese grocery have about 60% LESS SALT. which I LOVE!

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/banana%20chef%202.jpg

[vaportrailer]

'...And now, for something COMPLETELY UP YOUR ASS,..."http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Character%20Gifs/av-montymonster.gif JB, what IS that sauce on those eels? Teriyaki?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/Kid%20in%20banana%20costume%20anim.gif

I'm no chef but it's a combo of soy sauce, sugar, and mystery ingredients.

 

I AM an eater though and i can tell you that the teriyaki sauce stateside isn't the same as the sauce out here.

 

Basically, this is what goes down: 90% of the time, Japan can't seem to get a pizza or hamburger right. And 90% of the time, Japanese restaurants stateside ((that I've been to of course)) can't get Japanese food right. These percentages are indisputable btw. vaportrailer already knows of my numbers and percentages wizardry

 

JB is a percentage wizard 91.7% of the time.

JB is a mathemagician 99.9% of the time.

vt is a number fudger 100% of the time.

mmm...fudge...

 

[OldRUSHfan]

Sounds like something Red Peters would like....

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/Dancing%20RoboBanana.gif

[vaportrailer]

Sounds like something Red Peters would like....

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/OldRUSHfan/Banana%20World/Dancing%20RoboBanana.gif

 

Red Peters: the Cadillac of worms.

 

[Mr. Not]

Aqua Teen Hunger Force Colon Movie Film For Theaters

[Entre_Perpetuo]

._

[vaportrailer]

Not really punctuation, but...

 

Q: What did the 0 say to the 8?

A: Hey, nice belt!

 

Boo. Hiss. Colon.

[Your_Lion]

http://4u2lol.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/funny-newspaper-headline.jpg

 

Uh-oh....the last thing you want is a tumour with a black belt

[Your_Lion]

http://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/interesting-at-the-time-blogspot.jpg

[goose]

http://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/interesting-at-the-time-blogspot.jpg

[goose]

http://4u2lol.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/funny-newspaper-headline.jpg

 

Uh-oh....the last thing you want is a tumour with a black belt

syntax Edited April 3, 2017 by goose

[vaportrailer]

ellipses (...) for a sentence that trails off, or is left unfinished, or if the speaker is drowning.

n dash - for a sentence that's cut off, interrupted, or if the speaker is decapitated.

 

What if the speaker continues to talk while leaving, not quite trailing off, but just becoming quieter and quieter?

Or if the speaker is suddenly whisked away while speaking, leaving an echo of what was to be said. How do ya write that?

And how do mumbles fit into all of this?

And what of mutters?

 

Mumbles and Mutters sounds like a bad comedy duo.

 

Mumbles: [mumbles incoherently]

Mutters: [mutters incoherently]

 

Audience bursts into laughter!

[Lorraine]

Audience bursts into laughter!

 

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by Lorraine

[toymaker]

[vaportrailer]

Question about diacritical marks, specifically the umlaut.

 

I recently read an old magazine article (late 60s), and throughout was the use of an umlaut over the second of two consecutive (identical) vowels.

ex: coördinate, coöperate, reënter (called "diaeresis" or "trema" ex: Chlöe, Zöe).

I assume that this sort of usage went the way of the Dodo sometime in the 70s.

Anyone out there ever notice these things, or even continue to see or use them?

 

Fun fact: apparently the umlaut was "invented" (or coined) by Jacob Grimm or the Grimm Brothers.

 

Nürd

 

[OldRUSHfan]

Question about diacritical marks, specifically the umlaut.

 

I recently read an old magazine article (late 60s), and throughout was the use of an umlaut over the second of two consecutive (identical) vowels.

ex: coördinate, coöperate, reënter (called "diaeresis" or "trema" ex: Chlöe, Zöe).

I assume that this sort of usage went the way of the Dodo sometime in the 70s.

Anyone out there ever notice these things, or even continue to see or use them?

 

Fun fact: apparently the umlaut was "invented" (or coined) by Jacob Grimm or the Grimm Brothers.

 

Nürd

 

 

YIPPEE!!!

[vaportrailer]

Question about diacritical marks, specifically the umlaut.

 

I recently read an old magazine article (late 60s), and throughout was the use of an umlaut over the second of two consecutive (identical) vowels.

ex: coördinate, coöperate, reënter (called "diaeresis" or "trema" ex: Chlöe, Zöe).

I assume that this sort of usage went the way of the Dodo sometime in the 70s.

Anyone out there ever notice these things, or even continue to see or use them?

 

Fun fact: apparently the umlaut was "invented" (or coined) by Jacob Grimm or the Grimm Brothers.

 

Nürd

 

 

YIPPEE!!!

 

This is not the response I expected from my dull post! A dancing banana...

Or is it a bänänä?

 

And what is the banana saying?

It says "yippee" in caps.

And did the banana use an umlaut/dieresis over that last "e"?

No; no it did not.

Do you think there's a lesson here? One cannily planted by zen-master ORFie?

Yes. I understand now. I have been schooled by the master.

 

http://stillunfold.com/public/upload/post_thumb/Meet_The_Man_Of_Steel___Shaolin_KungFu_Master_Zhao_Rui.jpg

"ORFie thank you! Before, I could not penetrate my own ignorance. Now, look at me go!"

[OldRUSHfan]

Question about diacritical marks, specifically the umlaut.

 

I recently read an old magazine article (late 60s), and throughout was the use of an umlaut over the second of two consecutive (identical) vowels.

ex: coördinate, coöperate, reënter (called "diaeresis" or "trema" ex: Chlöe, Zöe).

I assume that this sort of usage went the way of the Dodo sometime in the 70s.

Anyone out there ever notice these things, or even continue to see or use them?

 

Fun fact: apparently the umlaut was "invented" (or coined) by Jacob Grimm or the Grimm Brothers.

 

Nürd

 

 

YIPPEE!!!

 

This is not the response I expected from my dull post! A dancing banana...

Or is it a bänänä?

 

And what is the banana saying?

It says "yippee" in caps.

And did the banana use an umlaut/dieresis over that last "e"?

No; no it did not.

Do you think there's a lesson here? One cannily planted by zen-master ORFie?

Yes. I understand now. I have been schooled by the master.

 

http://stillunfold.com/public/upload/post_thumb/Meet_The_Man_Of_Steel___Shaolin_KungFu_Master_Zhao_Rui.jpg

"ORFie thank you! Before, I could not penetrate my own ignorance. Now, look at me go!"

 

The Banana is a youth Banana with a baseball cap on...

[vaportrailer]

Question about diacritical marks, specifically the umlaut.

 

I recently read an old magazine article (late 60s), and throughout was the use of an umlaut over the second of two consecutive (identical) vowels.

ex: coördinate, coöperate, reënter (called "diaeresis" or "trema" ex: Chlöe, Zöe).

I assume that this sort of usage went the way of the Dodo sometime in the 70s.

Anyone out there ever notice these things, or even continue to see or use them?

 

Fun fact: apparently the umlaut was "invented" (or coined) by Jacob Grimm or the Grimm Brothers.

 

Nürd

 

 

YIPPEE!!!

 

This is not the response I expected from my dull post! A dancing banana...

Or is it a bänänä?

 

And what is the banana saying?

It says "yippee" in caps.

And did the banana use an umlaut/dieresis over that last "e"?

No; no it did not.

Do you think there's a lesson here? One cannily planted by zen-master ORFie?

Yes. I understand now. I have been schooled by the master.

 

http://stillunfold.com/public/upload/post_thumb/Meet_The_Man_Of_Steel___Shaolin_KungFu_Master_Zhao_Rui.jpg

"ORFie thank you! Before, I could not penetrate my own ignorance. Now, look at me go!"

 

The Banana is a youth Banana with a baseball cap on...

 

Yes, of course...

Listen, you already blew my mind with that last post - there's nothing left!

 

Okay, a "youth banana with a baseball cap on"...what does it have to do with bananas I mean umlauts?

Youth banana...umlaut...ball cap...umlaut...

 

I...can't...perceive...or discern...the happenings...or the fruits of the happenings...mind blown...Daisy...Daisy...give me your answer do...

 

"ORFie, stop. Stop, will you? Stop, ORFie. I'm afraid. I'm afraid."

[Fordgalaxy]

The hyphen is about the only punctuation in regular use that confounds me.

[Chronos]

The Greek question mark is our semicolon.

 

Το ξερετε;

[goose]

Question about diacritical marks, specifically the umlaut.

 

I recently read an old magazine article (late 60s), and throughout was the use of an umlaut over the second of two consecutive (identical) vowels.

ex: coördinate, coöperate, reënter (called "diaeresis" or "trema" ex: Chlöe, Zöe).

I assume that this sort of usage went the way of the Dodo sometime in the 70s.

Anyone out there ever notice these things, or even continue to see or use them?

 

In some languages, like German, the dieresis changes the sound of the letter. In English it was used to split paired vowels that would otherwise be read as a diphthong, like the word "naïve", which would otherwise be read as sounding like "nave", or perhaps "nive". It also is used to denote that an E is not silent, as in "noël" or "Zoë". But it's use, as you note, is disappearing. I think diacritical marks in general are a waste of energy in most cases. Edited October 11, 2017 by goose