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JohnnyBlaze's Definitive Method of Ranking Rush


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#1 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 11:32 PM

There have been several threads on ranking and rating Rush albums. And honestly, I enjoy most of them. But overall, they are either TOO complicated or TOO simplistic. Here, I think is something in the middle. Here, you can find the definitive answer of which is YOUR best. Do this by rating EACH song. THEN, find the album's average after that. Follow these steps:

1) Do NOT think about which album you think is best.
2) Use this point scale to rank each song:
    5: the song is great-->perfect
    4: the song is good-->very good
    3: the song is so-so-->okay
    2: the song is not good BUT it's not 100% awful
    1: the song shouldn't have been made
3) Add all the song points for the album then get the album's average.
example: I got 31 points for the 8 songs on the debut album. So, the    album's average was a 3.875.
4) In the event of a tie (it only happened once with me), THEN you make the gut choice of which is the better album.

Believe me, it doesn't take as long as you might think. And, I think you might be surprised at where the albums fall. But I cannot stress enough: rate the songs INDIVIDUALLY; do not think of the album and how much you love it. I'd be interested to know if your album rankings were the same or very different than if you were asked to straight-up rank the albums.

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#2 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 11:44 PM

My results. I was very VERY suprised by this. If I had been asked to rank them without using this scoring method, my answers (anything between 6-17  anyway) would have been totally different.

So here it is:
1) Moving Pictures (average: 5)
2) Hemispheres (5)
3) Permanent Waves (4.83)
4) Farewell to Kings (4.66)
5) Signals (4.625)
6) Power Windows (4.5)
7) 2112 (4.33)
8) Grace Under Pressure (4.25)
9) Hold Your Fire (4.2)
10) Rush (3.875)
11) Fly By Night (3.875)
12) Clockwork Angels (3.83)
13) Counterparts (3.818)
14) Caress of Steel (3.8)
15) Presto (3.636)
16) Vapor Trails (3.615)
17) Snakes and Arrows (3.461)
18) Test for Echo (3.454)
19) Roll the Bones (3.1)

Overall average: 3.98
Other stats (I feel like rushgoober now tongue.gif ):
- 62 songs rated at "5" (37.57%)
- 49 songs rated at "4" (29.69%)
- 42 songs rated at "3" (25.45%)
- 11 songs rated at "2" (6.66%)
- 1 song that "Shouldn't have been made" (.01%)

My shockers:
- Power Windows beating 2112?!!! MASSIVE shocker there ohmy.gif
- Hold Your Fire cracking the top 10?!!  ohmy.gif
- Clockwork Angels all the way down to #12?!! I thought it would've easily been in the top 10.  ohmy.gif
- Snakes Arrows ONLY beating out Test for Echo & RTB?!:o  Some very weak songs on that gave it lower overall average.  

#3 HomesickAlien

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:24 AM

My God, you must have put an awful lot of thought into this!

I've been a Rush fan since the early 80's, and at times have driven friends and family crazy with my "Rush talk" , but even I would never concoct something like this rating system.

I'm new around here, and I'm honestly not having a go at you, but am I the only one who thinks this is just a bit over the top?

That said, if anyone decides to do this, I hope you have fun.

I'm almost afraid what I'll discover when I return to this thread tomorrow morning!



#4 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 12:46 AM

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 15 2012, 02:24 PM)
My God, you must have put an awful lot of thought into this!

I've been a Rush fan since the early 80's, and at times have driven friends and family crazy with my "Rush talk" , but even I would never concoct something like this rating system.

I'm new around here, and I'm honestly not having a go at you, but am I the only one who thinks this is just a bit over the top?

That said, if anyone decides to do this, I hope you have fun.

I'm almost afraid what I'll discover when I return to this thread tomorrow morning!

No worries. Being new, you wouldn't know about some of the other threads that have much more complicated ways to rank/rate the Rush albums/songs. Really, this one is quite simple: Rank each song from 1-5 then find the album average. From there you can see how it compares. And 'no' it didn't take much time to think of it...it was more of a reaction to the other threads of "Rate album X from 1-10" and the other complictated rating/ranking methods that I already mentioned.  

#5 Shreddy Lee

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 05:40 AM

Good idea. My findings:

1. Hemispheres (Avg: 4.25)
2. Fly By Night (Avg: 4)
3. Moving Pictures (Avg: 3.71)
4. A Farewell to Kings (Avg: 3.5) (Tie)
5. Clockwork Angels (Avg: 3.5) (Tie)
6. Permanent Waves (Avg: 3.5) (Tie)
7. Vapor Trails (Avg: 3.46)
8. Caress of Steel (Avg: 3.4)
9. Rush (Avg: 3.375)
10. 2112 (Avg: 3.33)
11. Grace Under Pressure (Avg: 3.25)
12. Signals (Avg: 3.125)
13. Snakes & Arrows (Avg: 2.92)
14. Roll the Bones (Avg: 2.2)
15. Counterparts (Avg: 2) (Tie)
16. Hold Your Fire (Avg: 2) (Tie)
17. Test for Echo (Avg: 1.81)
18. Presto (Avg: 1.54)
19. Power Windows (Avg: 1.5)

Here's how that compares to how I recently ranked the albums in another thread:

QUOTE
1. Hemispheres
2. Fly By Night
3. Moving Pictures
4. A Farewell to Kings
5. Clockwork Angels
6. Vapor Trails
7. 2112
8. Permanent Waves
9. Caress of Steel
10. Grace Under Pressure
11. Signals
12. Snakes & Arrows
13. Rush
14. Roll the Bones
15. Counterparts
16. Test for Echo
17. Presto
18. Hold Your Fire
19. Power Windows


Overall, it was pretty consistent.  

#6 OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:15 AM

QUOTE (JohnnyBlaze @ Jul 15 2012, 01:46 AM)
QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 15 2012, 02:24 PM)
My God, you must have put an awful lot of thought into this!

I've been a Rush fan since the early 80's, and at times have driven friends and family crazy with my "Rush talk" , but even I would never concoct something like this rating system.

I'm new around here, and I'm honestly not having a go at you, but am I the only one who thinks this is just a bit over the top?

That said, if anyone decides to do this, I hope you have fun.

I'm almost afraid what I'll discover when I return to this thread tomorrow morning!

No worries. Being new, you wouldn't know about some of the other threads that have much more complicated ways to rank/rate the Rush albums/songs. Really, this one is quite simple: Rank each song from 1-5 then find the album average. From there you can see how it compares. And 'no' it didn't take much time to think of it...it was more of a reaction to the other threads of "Rate album X from 1-10" and the other complictated rating/ranking methods that I already mentioned.

I feel this is the most honest ranking system when it boils down to the songs on the albums without the sentiment or bias that comes with "favorites".

I'm not gonna rank them though.

#7 treeduck

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

I may have a go at this...

trink36.gif  

#8 1-0-0-1-0-0-1

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 02:54 PM

QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 15 2012, 03:28 PM)
I may have a go at this...

trink36.gif

Me too. I like Blaze's logic here.

#9 ColdFireYYZ

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:17 PM

Signals - 4.875
Permanent Waves - 4.833
Hemispheres - 4.75
Moving Pictures - 4.714
A Farwell to Kings/Grace Under Pressure/Power Windows - 4.5
Clockwork Angels - 4.333
Counterparts - 4.272
2112 - 4.166
Fly By Night - 3.875
Hold Your Fire - 3.7
Vapor Trails - 3.692
Presto - 3.545
Snakes & Arrows - 3.461
Rush - 3.375
Roll The Bones - 3.3
Caress of Steel - 3.2
Test For Echo - 2.181


Edited by ColdFireYYZ, 15 July 2012 - 07:26 PM.


#10 laughedatbytime

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:49 PM

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Jul 15 2012, 01:54 PM)
QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 15 2012, 03:28 PM)
I may have a go at this...

trink36.gif

Me too. I like Blaze's logic here.

This system should be time weighted.    Or at least the epics should be stripped down into parts.

Otherwise, for example, Tears and the Twilight Zone have twice as much weight as 2112.

#11 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 11:25 PM

QUOTE (OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan @ Jul 15 2012, 08:15 PM)
QUOTE (JohnnyBlaze @ Jul 15 2012, 01:46 AM)
QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 15 2012, 02:24 PM)
My God, you must have put an awful lot of thought into this!

I've been a Rush fan since the early 80's, and at times have driven friends and family crazy with my "Rush talk" , but even I would never concoct something like this rating system.

I'm new around here, and I'm honestly not having a go at you, but am I the only one who thinks this is just a bit over the top?

That said, if anyone decides to do this, I hope you have fun.

I'm almost afraid what I'll discover when I return to this thread tomorrow morning!

No worries. Being new, you wouldn't know about some of the other threads that have much more complicated ways to rank/rate the Rush albums/songs. Really, this one is quite simple: Rank each song from 1-5 then find the album average. From there you can see how it compares. And 'no' it didn't take much time to think of it...it was more of a reaction to the other threads of "Rate album X from 1-10" and the other complictated rating/ranking methods that I already mentioned.

I feel this is the most honest ranking system when it boils down to the songs on the albums without the sentiment or bias that comes with "favorites".

I'm not gonna rank them though.

Fair enough  trink38.gif  

#12 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 11:26 PM

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Jul 16 2012, 04:54 AM)
QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 15 2012, 03:28 PM)
I may have a go at this...

trink36.gif

Me too. I like Blaze's logic here.

  trink39.gif
Do it.  trink38.gif  

#13 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 11:28 PM

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jul 16 2012, 09:49 AM)
QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Jul 15 2012, 01:54 PM)
QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 15 2012, 03:28 PM)
I may have a go at this...

trink36.gif

Me too. I like Blaze's logic here.

This system should be time weighted.    Or at least the epics should be stripped down into parts.

Otherwise, for example, Tears and the Twilight Zone have twice as much weight as 2112.

I didn't think about time-weighting (but that is a reasonable point). I wanted to keep it simple. Besides, imho, a song is a song whether it's 3 minutes or 15. It's how they wrote it so that's how I'll judge it.  2.gif  

#14 JohnnyBlaze

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 11:43 PM

QUOTE (Shreddy Lee @ Jul 15 2012, 07:40 PM)
Good idea. My findings:

1. Hemispheres (Avg: 4.25)
2. Fly By Night (Avg: 4)
3. Moving Pictures (Avg: 3.71)
4. A Farewell to Kings (Avg: 3.5) (Tie)
5. Clockwork Angels (Avg: 3.5) (Tie)
6. Permanent Waves (Avg: 3.5) (Tie)
7. Vapor Trails (Avg: 3.46)
8. Caress of Steel (Avg: 3.4)
9. Rush (Avg: 3.375)
10. 2112 (Avg: 3.33)
11. Grace Under Pressure (Avg: 3.25)
12. Signals (Avg: 3.125)
13. Snakes & Arrows (Avg: 2.92)
14. Roll the Bones (Avg: 2.2)
15. Counterparts (Avg: 2) (Tie)
16. Hold Your Fire (Avg: 2) (Tie)
17. Test for Echo (Avg: 1.81)
18. Presto (Avg: 1.54)
19. Power Windows (Avg: 1.5)

Here's how that compares to how I recently ranked the albums in another thread:

QUOTE
1. Hemispheres
2. Fly By Night
3. Moving Pictures
4. A Farewell to Kings
5. Clockwork Angels
6. Vapor Trails
7. 2112
8. Permanent Waves
9. Caress of Steel
10. Grace Under Pressure
11. Signals
12. Snakes & Arrows
13. Rush
14. Roll the Bones
15. Counterparts
16. Test for Echo
17. Presto
18. Hold Your Fire
19. Power Windows


Overall, it was pretty consistent.

Yeah, that's pretty close  yes.gif  

#15 HowItIs

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 02:45 AM

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Jul 15 2012, 12:54 PM)
QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 15 2012, 03:28 PM)
I may have a go at this...

trink36.gif

Me too. I like Blaze's logic here.

It may take me a few days but I'm game smile.gif

#16 rushgoober

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 09:51 AM

QUOTE (JohnnyBlaze @ Jul 14 2012, 09:44 PM)
Other stats (I feel like rushgoober now tongue.gif ):

ohmy.gif

dazed025.gif

tongue.gif

Ok, let me preface my stats by saying that while interesting, doing it this way for me is only somewhat accurate:

1. Rating songs in very general 1-5 categories is a LOT less accurate than doing a full 1-10, or as I would usually do 1-20 if you consider that you can do half points.  What would be a 5 on this scale would usually be 4 scores (8.5, 9, 9.5 & 10).  What would be a 4 on this scale would also be 4 scores (6.5, 7, 7.5, 8).  There can a TREMENDOUS difference between 6.5 and 8 or between 8.5 and 10.  There's a lot more room for subtlety, and if you start adding in 8.25, 8.75, etc. fuggedaboutit!

2. The end results for a given album don't take any of the more intagible aspects into consideration.  For example, I can't stand the last 2 songs on HYF, but the rest of the album is SO strong that I rate it a lot higher than several albums where every song is strong or very strong.  Often you CAN'T just break this stuff down into basic math equations when certain albums have a higher emotional connection or give you a better overall feeling or you just plain old listen to it more, even if the individual numbers when broken down don't reflect that.  It's often just not as logical as breaking it down mathematically.

That said:

My results:
1. Hemispheres (5)
2. Signals (5)
3. Moving Pictures (4.86)
4. Permanent Waves (4.66)
5. 2112 (4.66)
6. Grace Under Pressure (4.63)
7. A Farewell to Kings (4.5)
8. Rush (4.5)
9. Clockwork Angels (4.5)
10. Power Windows (4.38)
11. Counterparts (4.36)
12. Fly By Night (4.25)
13. Hold Your Fire (4.1)
14. Caress of Steel (3.6)
15. Snakes & Arrows (3.38)
16. Presto (2.55)
17. Roll the Bones (2.2)
18. Test For Echo (2)
19. Vapor Trails (1.08)

Overall average by individual songs: 3.70

Overall average by full album averages: 3.91

Other stats:
- 79 songs rated at "5" (47.8%)
- 27 songs rated at "4" (16.4%)
- 14 songs rated at "3" (8.5%)
- 20 songs rated at "2" (12.1%)
- 25 songs that "Shouldn't have been made" (15.2%)

My shockers:
- Hold Your Fire actually rates a LOT higher for me than 13.  The last 2 tracks make the raw numbers go deceptively low, but the first 8 songs are of such high quality that it beats out a lot of albums that technically rate higher - those last 2 songs drag down the average unfairly.
- 2112 actually rates a bit lower for me than 5.  Yes, all the songs are great or better, but overall the album doesn't flow well (I rarely listen to both side one and side two in one sitting - it's usually one or the other), and I listen to it a lot less as a whole compared to some other albums that technically rate lower.
- Other than that the biggest shocker is that everything else is fairly spot on in terms of what I would rank if doing it based on the tangible AND the intangible factors.

Comparisons to JohnnyBlaze's results:
You have quite a lot at 5, 4 & 3 with very few at 2 & 1.  Your list descends while mine is more of a curve, but heavily weighted towards the top.  My results tend to be a bit more all over the map with a distinct drop in the middle.  I guess for me, I'm more emotional - I seem to LOVE a song or HATE a song seemingly more intensely.  I put a full 45 songs at 2 or 1 (including 25 at 1, as opposed to your 1) where you only put 12.  So even though I have a lot more 5's than you do, my overall average is a good bit lower.

Edited by rushgoober, 16 July 2012 - 10:14 AM.


#17 rushgoober

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:04 AM

QUOTE (Shreddy Lee @ Jul 15 2012, 03:40 AM)
Good idea. My findings:

1. Hemispheres (Avg: 4.25)
2. Fly By Night (Avg: 4)
3. Moving Pictures (Avg: 3.71)
4. A Farewell to Kings (Avg: 3.5) (Tie)
5. Clockwork Angels (Avg: 3.5) (Tie)
6. Permanent Waves (Avg: 3.5) (Tie)
7. Vapor Trails (Avg: 3.46)
8. Caress of Steel (Avg: 3.4)
9. Rush (Avg: 3.375)
10. 2112 (Avg: 3.33)
11. Grace Under Pressure (Avg: 3.25)
12. Signals (Avg: 3.125)
13. Snakes & Arrows (Avg: 2.92)
14. Roll the Bones (Avg: 2.2)
15. Counterparts (Avg: 2) (Tie)
16. Hold Your Fire (Avg: 2) (Tie)
17. Test for Echo (Avg: 1.81)
18. Presto (Avg: 1.54)
19. Power Windows (Avg: 1.5)

One thing you share with my list that differs from JohnnyBlaze's is how low your rankings can go.

For example, Johnny's lowest is 3.1. You have SEVEN albums rated lower than his lowest, and I have FOUR.  For him he seems to "not like something quite as much" where you and I seem to have no problem either "not liking it much at all" or outright "hating it."

Interestingly, your highest is at 4.25, with #2 at 4 and #3 at 3.71.  Here we seriously differ as that seems shockingly low to me.  I guess you don't think Rush have any perfect albums, and only 1 that's even close to perfect.  Your numbers seem to show (and feel free to violently disagree with me) that you're more of a casual Rush fan than many of us.  Either that, or you're a lot harder to please.  I have a full ELEVEN albums rated higher than your highest rating.  Johnny has SEVEN.  I have 13 rated higher than your top 3, and Johnny has 14! ohmy.gif

Edited by rushgoober, 16 July 2012 - 10:15 AM.


#18 Mika

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:05 AM

This is an interesting ranking system! Nice idea. I've actually been thinking how it would be cool if we could have a communal ranking thread - everyone votes on all the songs, on an scale of 1-5, say, and watch what happens after a while. I think that would be interesting!

And Goober, you say you ranked 25 songs as 'shouldn't have been made' - I'm curious what they are, if you wouldn't mind sharing them! (Hmm, maybe almost the entirety of Vapor Trails? tongue.gif )

#19 Tommy Sawyer

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:58 AM

no.gif Albums don't work that way. This way give no weighting to how the album flows and how enjoyable it is to listen to the album all the way through. Besides, not all 5-star songs are equal.

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#20 rushgoober

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:20 PM

QUOTE (Mika @ Jul 16 2012, 09:05 AM)
And Goober, you say you ranked 25 songs as 'shouldn't have been made' - I'm curious what they are, if you wouldn't mind sharing them! (Hmm, maybe almost the entirety of Vapor Trails? tongue.gif )

Chronologically:

I Think I'm Going Bald

Tai Shan

Superconductor

Face Up
Heresy
Neurotica
You Bet Your Life

Dog Years
Virtuality

Ceiling Unlimited
Ghost Rider
Peaceable Kingdom
The Stars Look Down
How It Is
Vapor Trail
Secret Touch
EarthShine
Sweet Miracle
Nocturne
Freeze
Out of the Cradle

Faithless
Bravest Face
Good News First

BU2B2






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