What decade does Permanent Waves really belong in?

[Lorraine]

I never thought to consider Moving Pictures a seventies' album. You may be on to something there, Rutlefan. :)

[JohnRogers]

Who's going to be the first party pooper to do away with their Santa hat avatar ?

I'm keeping mine till the Epiphany or as my mother calls it Puerto Rican Christmas on January 6th.

Why do you hate Puerto Ricans?

I don't hate Puerto Ricans my maternal side of the family is exclusively Puerto Rican. My mother hates Puerto Ricans.

Why does your mother hate herself? I don't get it.

No she doesn't hate herself, she is the whitest of her siblings and always has white marriage last names. She is a bit of a racist.

[JohnRogers]

still sounds so Avant Garde it could have been released today. Rush at their very very best. written by the gods. every single note.

I have often thought who is a current modern band recording "Permanent Waves" today??? A modern record that is a PW clone?

[Rutlefan]

I never thought to consider Moving Pictures a seventies' album. You may be on to something there, Rutlefan. :)

 

^ Yeah, think about it, does MP more resemble Led Zeppelin or Duran Duran, the bands that arguably best represented their respective decades (all things considered -- I didn't personally like Duran Duran much, but they got a James Bond theme, so what do I know)? Answer is obvious. Really, MP resembles In Through the Out Door, except it's much much better (and I like ITTOD well enough).

 

In 1981, the music that was being released was like business as usual; there was an evolution going on but it was an extension of the stuff that had been going on awhile. 1982 and the videos for Hungry Like the Wolf and Vienna and Beat It came along and you knew there was a New Thing going on. MP belonged to the good old thing. Signals and its Subdivisions video belonged to the New Thing (it was a good new thing, but still a new thing).

Edited December 28, 2015 by Rutlefan

[lifeson90]

yep, like a lot of us i was there, and for me that album definitely marked the beginning of the 80s, with it's kinda new wave vibe to it... still sounds so Avant Garde it could have been released today. Rush at their very very best. written by the gods. every single note.

 

New Wave vibe? I'm not hearing it. I was there too, and at the time I didn't think it sounded any more New Wave (which started in the late '70s) than did '77's News of the World or '79's In Through the Out Door. "It had reggae in it!" So did 1973's D'yer Ma'ker (I've never understood the reggae equals '80s argument). What did sound New Wave was Blondie, The Cars, Talking Heads, B-52s, etc. ('70s New Wave) and I thought PeW sounded nothing like any of that. In fact, at the time I thought the title was a metaphorical middle finger directed at "New" wave; as in, it's a fad, here's "permanent" waves. I do though think that from Signals on Rush did incorporate a lot of elements of '80s New Wave, esp GUP through HYF.

 

At any rate, I think you're right about PeW being timeless. It could be released today and it would be awesome. Young types used to 60+ minute play lengths might wonder about the short play time, but other than that the album would hold its own, no doubt.

 

well of course it wasn't New Wave per se, but the general feel of the album was certainly a kind of new wave thing for rush, of course PeW sounded nothing remotely like Blondie and all the other bands you mentioned, only a fool would suggest that, i just believe rush took on board some of that New Wave ethos and applied it to themselves, which ultimately gives the album that modern timeless feel really. yeah there's still a connection between PeW and hemispheres etc but the most obvious realization for me at the time was that this band was kicking forward discarding most of their junk, and that's really what new wave was ultimately about. i never suggested for one sec that PeW was anything like a New Wave album, just it had a kind of vibe in it that was similar to the cutting edge New Wave ethos at the time. it's Rush doing New Wave, without being part of the general scene

 

i mean that opening riff of spirit of radio and the whole sound of the track itself, it's rush - but there's a new and fresh twist about it, almost a pop chart thing, it's rush doing new wave really sounding like no other band in the 'movement' why? because they're Rush, and this band have never sounded like anything else. yeah they do their own versions and adopt styles when it suits em - take Signals for instance which for me definitely isn't new wave it's moved on again, but Alex took on board the ska/Andy Summers thing and totally transformed his own band sounding like nothing else, you couldn't say they were part of another musical movement they're still just rush, doing their own thing. by the way, just checked it out to see if anyone agreed and the wikipedia page for rush also says PeW introduced new wave elements, just sayin. i know it isnt the bible like :)

 

anyway it's all a matter of opinion of course, but even geniuses are affected by their environment, maybe even especially, and albums like PeW & Signals may not have happened were it not for the strong prevalent trends at the time of their creation, we all tend to take more notice of the most exciting energetic stuff going on in the world and looking at the distinct change from hemispheres to PeW I'm personally convinced the whole New Wave ethos managed to soak into them for a bit, probably still lingering today actually. could be wrong though.

Edited December 28, 2015 by lifeson90

[toymaker]

One more thought. To my thinking, the " '80's " started on August 1, 1981, with the airing of MTV's inaugural video, "Video Killed the Radio Star." So, February's Moving Pictures was actually a '70s album! That's right, glad to have cleared that up.

 

With music in general, stylistically, 1980 and '81 were really carryovers of what had been started in the late '70s, making Moving Pictures Rush's last '70s album and Signals their first '80s album (though "The Analog Kid" was their last '70s song). After Signals, they were a full-on '80s band, for better or for worse.

 

I can live with this assessment from a certain point of view. There are some things on side B of that album that I hear as more of an early 80s sound, though. Also, Moving Pictures was written in August 1980 and recorded and mixed later that year. So it is really the first Rush album of the 80s. If parts of it sound 70sish to people, I would say that those are leftover vibes from the Permanent Waves mindset, which is obviously much more of a 70s thing.

[Rutlefan]

^ I have always thought that Vital Signs was forward-looking, even if no one element was especially ground-breaking. But the rest of it is pretty heavy rock, though melodic and built around good-songwriting. Sure Tom Sawyer used some synths but those had been around forever; synths do not '80s music make (ELP and ELO for example). The Camera Eye always sounded like an updated In the Light even. There is little on MP that sounds like '80s music to me, again, apart from maybe Vital Signs, but that's only in hindsight; of course at the time I didn't think, "Oh, Rush is making an uncanny prediction of what much popular music will sound like in the coming years."

[grep]

Geddy refers to TSOR as the 80's on R40.

[grep]

Here's a curveball for ya.

 

1980 is actually the last decade of the 70's. Think about it. A decade is 10 years.

 

There was no year 0 in our calendar.

Year 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 year 9 then year 10 to round it out. It's built and added on from there.

 

So the frst year of the 80's was really 1981... from a calendar perspective.

 

 

:P

[Rutlefan]

^ Not to begrudge the point, but yes, that had been discussed before, becoming its own little debate actually. Are the " '70's " the same as the 197th decade of the Gregorian calendar, and the " '80's " the 198th (in which case 1980 belongs to the same decade as 1971, and 1990 to the same as 1981), or are they the decades that are dated with the corresponding third place number of a date (in which case 1980 belongs to the 1980s)? I think musically it's neither if you are trying to stylistically identify a song or album with a decade. For example, not only do I think the '80s started in '82 (musically), but the '90s started in '91, with the bombshell that was Nevermind. Edited December 28, 2015 by Rutlefan

[toymaker]

Also, Geddy's recollection is a bit foggy at times... Edited December 28, 2015 by toymaker

[Lorraine]

Geddy refers to TSOR as the 80's on R40.

 

What does Geddy know?

 

;)

[Lorraine]

Also, Geddys recollection is a bit foggy at times...

 

Quite right, toymaker. The man didn't even remember doing Jacob's Ladder.

[JohnRogers]

Also, Geddys recollection is a bit foggy at times...

 

Quite right, toymaker. The man didn't even remember doing Jacob's Ladder.

Exactly, Geddy makes the music but he is no expert on RUSH. Doofus doesn't even know that Neil retired.

[Lorraine]

Also, Geddys recollection is a bit foggy at times...

 

Quite right, toymaker. The man didn't even remember doing Jacob's Ladder.

Exactly, Geddy makes the music but he is no expert on RUSH. Doofus doesn't even know that Neil retired.

 

 

John Rogers, why don't you ask your cigar lounge customers tonight: What decade does Permanent Waves belong in?

 

Report back to us with the results. :)

[grep]

^ Not to begrudge the point, but yes, that had been discussed before, becoming its own little debate actually. Are the " '70's " the same as the 197th decade of the Gregorian calendar, and the " '80's " the 198th (in which case 1980 belongs to the same decade as 1971, and 1990 to the same as 1981), or are they the decades that are dated with the corresponding third place number of a date (in which case 1980 belongs to the 1980s)? I think musically it's neither if you are trying to stylistically identify a song or album with a decade. For example, not only do I think the '80s started in '82 (musically), but the '90s started in '91, with the bombshell that was Nevermind.

 

I'm just stirring the pot.... that's all.

[Digital Dad]

Here's a curveball for ya.

 

1980 is actually the last decade of the 70's. Think about it. A decade is 10 years.

 

There was no year 0 in our calendar.

Year 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 year 9 then year 10 to round it out. It's built and added on from there.

 

So the frst year of the 80's was really 1981... from a calendar perspective.

 

 

:P

 

Ive posted links here before but one can look it up on ones own. Websters and Oxford dictionaries both define a decade as a period of 10 years starting with '00 and ending in '09.

[Ancient Ways]

Who's going to be the first party pooper to do away with their Santa hat avatar ?

I'm keeping mine till the Epiphany or as my mother calls it Puerto Rican Christmas on January 6th.

Why do you hate Puerto Ricans?

I don't hate Puerto Ricans my maternal side of the family is exclusively Puerto Rican. My mother hates Puerto Ricans.

Why does your mother hate herself? I don't get it.

No she doesn't hate herself, she is the whitest of her siblings and always has white marriage last names. She is a bit of a racist.

Cool. My moms twin is married to a man from Puerto Rico and my wife is from Dominican Republic. I love to experience different cultures and the food and music are great.

[Lorraine]

Who's going to be the first party pooper to do away with their Santa hat avatar ?

I'm keeping mine till the Epiphany or as my mother calls it Puerto Rican Christmas on January 6th.

Why do you hate Puerto Ricans?

I don't hate Puerto Ricans my maternal side of the family is exclusively Puerto Rican. My mother hates Puerto Ricans.

Why does your mother hate herself? I don't get it.

No she doesn't hate herself, she is the whitest of her siblings and always has white marriage last names. She is a bit of a racist.

Cool. My moms twin is married to a man from Puerto Rico and my wife is from Dominican Republic. I love to experience different cultures and the food and music are great.

I don't think John Rogers is being completely serious.

 

His sense of humor has been affected by too much cigar smoke. :guitar:

[JohnRogers]

Who's going to be the first party pooper to do away with their Santa hat avatar ?

I'm keeping mine till the Epiphany or as my mother calls it Puerto Rican Christmas on January 6th.

Why do you hate Puerto Ricans?

I don't hate Puerto Ricans my maternal side of the family is exclusively Puerto Rican. My mother hates Puerto Ricans.

Why does your mother hate herself? I don't get it.

No she doesn't hate herself, she is the whitest of her siblings and always has white marriage last names. She is a bit of a racist.

Cool. My moms twin is married to a man from Puerto Rico and my wife is from Dominican Republic. I love to experience different cultures and the food and music are great.

I don't think John Rogers is being completely serious.

No I'm serious my moms is a self a loathing Puerto Rican. :(

[Scooch]

Some interesting points through out this thread!

 

I kind of think of Rush as their own thing. I don't attach a decade to them as, in my mind, they've always floated above a label or a specific time period. And this is one thing I love about them. Even now, when I discuss Rush with non-Rush fans I don't hear anything about when they were most popular... I hear stuff like "All their music sounds the same" Now we all know this isn't true, but I think what it means is, they sound like Rush - they have their own unique style and sound.

 

As far as the Reggae and "New Wave" influences - I don't think they were trying to sound hip or cool. I think they were simply infusing the music that was influencing them at that time. In my simple brain Rush being influenced by The Police is really no different than them being influenced by Led Zeppelin. Yeah, the end result is different as far as what the music will sound like, but they're just infusing musical elements into what they're doing that they hear and like. You can hear a lot Rush's influence in Dream Theater's stuff, and then on Clockwork Angels I heard Dream Theaters influence on them. I didn't think any less of Rush because of it - I think it's awesome they are still listening and growing!

[Lucas]

[Scooch]

Deborah Harry in her prime was... beyond words!

[Lorraine]

Who's going to be the first party pooper to do away with their Santa hat avatar ?

I'm keeping mine till the Epiphany or as my mother calls it Puerto Rican Christmas on January 6th.

Why do you hate Puerto Ricans?

I don't hate Puerto Ricans my maternal side of the family is exclusively Puerto Rican. My mother hates Puerto Ricans.

Why does your mother hate herself? I don't get it.

No she doesn't hate herself, she is the whitest of her siblings and always has white marriage last names. She is a bit of a racist.

Cool. My moms twin is married to a man from Puerto Rico and my wife is from Dominican Republic. I love to experience different cultures and the food and music are great.

I don't think John Rogers is being completely serious.

No I'm serious my moms is a self a loathing Puerto Rican. :(

That's too bad. I spent years hanging around with Hispanics - Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Portuguese. and Haitians. All very warm and good-hearted.

[Lucas]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--u2fblYAFgo/UYl9q3RbHsI/AAAAAAAAPig/fy08IiV2dto/s1600/DEBBIE+HARRY+(1).png