Ripped off? Borrowed?

[Powderfinger]

Speaking of this, and I wish I had made notes because I just know some smart-aleck ( ;) ) here is going to ask me for proof, but I have even noticed Alex borrowing from Alex in Rush songs. There are a few of their songs that sound a lot alike.

John Fogerty got sued for borrowing from himself!

 

And, by contrast, David Geffen sued Neil Young for not borrowing from himself.

[Powderfinger]

Ever since the threads on this forum about Rush ripping off Journey or Jimmy Page being a plagiarist, I seem more aware of "borrowing" or "ripping off" between artists. Today, this one really grabbed me:

 

Listen to the riff at approximately 0:59 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWbk6LPrf0

 

Now listen to the riff at approximately 1:38 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9rM3-XfIak

 

Yep, A Flock of Seagulls clearly "borrowed" or "ripped off" Yes. New Wave hacks...

 

What about this song from The Black Crowes?

 

 

This is post in particular caught my eye because The Southern Harmony and Musical Companion and Close to the Edge are in fact my two favorite albums of all time. As an unabashed uber fan of both groups ( :P), I feel compelled to state that it's a serious reach to suggest that "Remedy" borrows from "The Revealing Science..." We could find thousands of songs that employ a similar descending chord progression.

 

Interestingly, however, Chris Robinson has recently been touting his love of classic Yes during interviews for his latest Chris Robinson Brotherhood album, Phosphorescent Harvest. But Rich wrote the "Remedy" riff, and I digress...

[ReRushed]

Speaking of this, and I wish I had made notes because I just know some smart-aleck ( ;) ) here is going to ask me for proof, but I have even noticed Alex borrowing from Alex in Rush songs. There are a few of their songs that sound a lot alike.

John Fogerty got sued for borrowing from himself!

Eh? How did that happen? :o

His old manager owned all the songs he wrote for Creedence Clearwater Revival.

[ReRushed]

Ever since the threads on this forum about Rush ripping off Journey or Jimmy Page being a plagiarist, I seem more aware of "borrowing" or "ripping off" between artists. Today, this one really grabbed me:

 

Listen to the riff at approximately 0:59 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWbk6LPrf0

 

Now listen to the riff at approximately 1:38 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9rM3-XfIak

 

Yep, A Flock of Seagulls clearly "borrowed" or "ripped off" Yes. New Wave hacks...

 

What about this song from The Black Crowes?

 

 

This is post in particular caught my eye because The Southern Harmony and Musical Companion and Close to the Edge are in fact my two favorite albums of all time. As an unabashed uber fan of both groups ( :P), I feel compelled to state that it's a serious reach to suggest that "Remedy" borrows from "The Revealing Science..." We could find thousands of songs that employ a similar descending chord progression.

 

Interestingly, however, Chris Robinson has recently been touting his love of classic Yes during interviews for his latest Chris Robinson Brotherhood album, Phosphorescent Harvest. But Rich wrote the "Remedy" riff, and I digress...

The Black Crowes song, if anything, uses a similar chord progression. It took me awhile to "recognize it". The Flock of Seagulls song, to me, sounds like a note for note copy, I knew I heard before by a different band.

Edited June 20, 2014 by ReRushed

[Lorraine]

Speaking of this, and I wish I had made notes because I just know some smart-aleck ( ;) ) here is going to ask me for proof, but I have even noticed Alex borrowing from Alex in Rush songs. There are a few of their songs that sound a lot alike.

 

he's so good, he influenced himself

 

That's a good one, Bathory.

[Lorraine]

Here's two:

 

Body Electric starts out almost the same as Mystic Rhythms

 

Totem and TSOL sound the same in parts

[KennyLee]

I don't think that's enough to be actionable. I've said it a million times but I'll say it again; there are only 12 notes. There's going to be some repetition just on accident. This is more of a melody that is similar not a real riff or song structure.

 

^^^ This.

 

Unless it's blatant, a couple notes on the same order as somebody else's couple notes ain't stealing or borrowing or anything. Especially if it simple descending notes in a scale or chord.

[ReRushed]

I don't think that's enough to be actionable. I've said it a million times but I'll say it again; there are only 12 notes. There's going to be some repetition just on accident. This is more of a melody that is similar not a real riff or song structure.

 

^^^ This.

 

Unless it's blatant, a couple notes on the same order as somebody else's couple notes ain't stealing or borrowing or anything. Especially if it simple descending notes in a scale or chord.

I would think copying a melody rather than a riff or chord sequence would be the more objectionable usage.

[ReRushed]

As schmaltzy as it is, I still love this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opkzgLMH5MA

Oh yeah, I love this song. The ten minute version kills.

[KennyLee]

I don't think that's enough to be actionable. I've said it a million times but I'll say it again; there are only 12 notes. There's going to be some repetition just on accident. This is more of a melody that is similar not a real riff or song structure.

 

^^^ This.

 

Unless it's blatant, a couple notes on the same order as somebody else's couple notes ain't stealing or borrowing or anything. Especially if it simple descending notes in a scale or chord.

I would think copying a melody rather than a riff or chord sequence would be the more objectionable usage.

 

Depends on how far it goes but it would definitely be more obvious.

[Ancient Ways]

I don't think that's enough to be actionable. I've said it a million times but I'll say it again; there are only 12 notes. There's going to be some repetition just on accident. This is more of a melody that is similar not a real riff or song structure.

 

^^^ This.

 

Unless it's blatant, a couple notes on the same order as somebody else's couple notes ain't stealing or borrowing or anything. Especially if it simple descending notes in a scale or chord.

I would think copying a melody rather than a riff or chord sequence would be the more objectionable usage.

 

I don't think the sequence is long enough though. It's like thirds, minor thirds, fifths, sevenths. Most songs are going to have these intervals just because.

[x1yyz]

The main riff in Nirvana's Come As You Are...

 

 

...was blatantly ripped off from Killing Joke's Eighties.

 

[ReRushed]

The main riff in Nirvana's Come As You Are...

 

http://youtu.be/vabnZ9-ex7o

 

...was blatantly ripped off from Killing Joke's Eighties.

 

http://youtu.be/x1U1Ue_5kq8

If I'm not mistaken, Nirvana did not deny this. Though, in the context of this thread, I think blatanly is a pretty strong word. Heck, I think the Flock of Seagulls riff is a better example of blatant.

 

But, like is was already stated, and I completely agree, this is the nature of the beast with Rock music.

[ReRushed]

I don't think that's enough to be actionable. I've said it a million times but I'll say it again; there are only 12 notes. There's going to be some repetition just on accident. This is more of a melody that is similar not a real riff or song structure.

 

^^^ This.

 

Unless it's blatant, a couple notes on the same order as somebody else's couple notes ain't stealing or borrowing or anything. Especially if it simple descending notes in a scale or chord.

I would think copying a melody rather than a riff or chord sequence would be the more objectionable usage.

 

I don't think the sequence is long enough though. It's like thirds, minor thirds, fifths, sevenths. Most songs are going to have these intervals just because.

It doesn't bother me, at all. I enjoy both songs I posted immensely. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional. They sound very similiar to my ears.

[Maverick]

Ever since the threads on this forum about Rush ripping off Journey or Jimmy Page being a plagiarist, I seem more aware of "borrowing" or "ripping off" between artists. Today, this one really grabbed me:

 

Listen to the riff at approximately 0:59 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWbk6LPrf0

 

Now listen to the riff at approximately 1:38 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9rM3-XfIak

 

Yep, A Flock of Seagulls clearly "borrowed" or "ripped off" Yes. New Wave hacks...

 

What about this song from The Black Crowes?

 

 

This is post in particular caught my eye because The Southern Harmony and Musical Companion and Close to the Edge are in fact my two favorite albums of all time. As an unabashed uber fan of both groups ( :P), I feel compelled to state that it's a serious reach to suggest that "Remedy" borrows from "The Revealing Science..." We could find thousands of songs that employ a similar descending chord progression.

 

Interestingly, however, Chris Robinson has recently been touting his love of classic Yes during interviews for his latest Chris Robinson Brotherhood album, Phosphorescent Harvest. But Rich wrote the "Remedy" riff, and I digress...

 

I'm a huge fan of both groups, as well. I think Southern Harmony and Musical Companion is one of the greatest Rock albums of all time.

 

Don't you think its possible if Chris was a huge fan of Classic Yes, that Rich could have been as well? I'm not saying that they ripped off Yes, but from the first time I heard Remedy, it reminded me of The Revealing.

 

It's funny, long before I became the Blues/Rockabilly/Gospel/Roots music lover and player that I am today, I love SHMC. I loved that album at a time where the only other bands I listened to were Yes, Rush, and Genesis.

[Powderfinger]

Yes, it's certainly possible, especially by accident. I'm sure Rich digs classic Yes. And it's not as though Rich hasn't borrowed heavily from Keith Richards, who borrowed from Ry Cooder and Gram Parsons, among others. And speaking of blatant ripoffs and The Crowes, did you ever hear country singer Gretchen Wilson's "Work Hard, Play Harder"? It's essentially a rewrite of "Jealous Again."

 

Anyway, I appreciate sharing this exchange. I too am a diehard, obsessive Genesis, Yes, and Rush fan who also adores The Black Crowes (that's Marc Ford in my avatar). Add The Stones and you have my five all-time favorite bands. I always assumed I was alone in this respect...

 

P.S. - We must remember that "Remedy" emerged from "Words You Throw Away," which bears virtually no resemblance to the Yes tune:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_mAA_QJ7-s

[Ancient Ways]

The main riff in Nirvana's Come As You Are...

 

 

...was blatantly ripped off from Killing Joke's Eighties.

 

 

But that little change in it that is different is what makes it.....different. Look at vanilla ice and under pressure. He changed one little piece and was not found to have plagiarized it.

[Powderfinger]

The main riff in Nirvana's Come As You Are...

 

http://youtu.be/vabnZ9-ex7o

 

...was blatantly ripped off from Killing Joke's Eighties.

 

http://youtu.be/x1U1Ue_5kq8

 

But that little change in it that is different is what makes it.....different. Look at vanilla ice and under pressure. He changed one little piece and was not found to have plagiarized it.

 

This isn't true. Vanilla Ice was found guilty of plagiarism. Queen received official songwriting credit.

[Stormtron]

http://youtu.be/LlnmNkMivHc

 

http://youtu.be/KL7Jk8IMVXA

 

STP's

also borrows the same riff.

[Rutlefan]

I don't think that's enough to be actionable. I've said it a million times but I'll say it again; there are only 12 notes. There's going to be some repetition just on accident. This is more of a melody that is similar not a real riff or song structure.

 

^^^ This.

 

Unless it's blatant, a couple notes on the same order as somebody else's couple notes ain't stealing or borrowing or anything. Especially if it simple descending notes in a scale or chord.

I would think copying a melody rather than a riff or chord sequence would be the more objectionable usage.

 

Often you'll see ads using music that is obviously aping a particular song or group's "feel" or sound, without stealing a note or chord sequence verbatim. I see/hear it all the time. A year or two ago I saw an ad which was obviously ripping off Phoenix, though not a particular song or melody by Phoenix. Levis did it to Morphine (ad shows a time-sequenced flow of people over airliner seats). Morphine successfully sued but I doubt other bands would be as successful because with Morphine the rip-off was painfully obvious as their sound is/was so unique; with other bands the imitation is more subtle.

[RushBoingo]

There is website called sounds like that covers this topic, showing songs that are shockingly similar to another. One of the most blatant to me is that Third Eye Blind's Semi-Charmed Life is a complete Rip off (except the chorus) of Spin Doctor's Two Princes

[Todem]

Gee I don't know….I really like Dream Theater…but half their catalog is borrowed from Rush, Kansas, Yes, Pink Floyd…I could go on and on.

 

LOL.

 

Rock n Roll is borrowed genre in general if you really listen.

[KennyLee]

I don't think that's enough to be actionable. I've said it a million times but I'll say it again; there are only 12 notes. There's going to be some repetition just on accident. This is more of a melody that is similar not a real riff or song structure.

 

^^^ This.

 

Unless it's blatant, a couple notes on the same order as somebody else's couple notes ain't stealing or borrowing or anything. Especially if it simple descending notes in a scale or chord.

I would think copying a melody rather than a riff or chord sequence would be the more objectionable usage.

 

Often you'll see ads using music that is obviously aping a particular song or group's "feel" or sound, without stealing a note or chord sequence verbatim. I see/hear it all the time. A year or two ago I saw an ad which was obviously ripping off Phoenix, though not a particular song or melody by Phoenix. Levis did it to Morphine (ad shows a time-sequenced flow of people over airliner seats). Morphine successfully sued but I doubt other bands would be as successful because with Morphine the rip-off was painfully obvious as their sound is/was so unique; with other bands the imitation is more subtle.

 

I've heard these as well. They kind of bother me but I can't help but tip my hat for the cleverness.

[Rutlefan]

The main riff in Nirvana's Come As You Are...

 

http://youtu.be/vabnZ9-ex7o

 

...was blatantly ripped off from Killing Joke's Eighties.

 

http://youtu.be/x1U1Ue_5kq8

 

But that little change in it that is different is what makes it.....different. Look at vanilla ice and under pressure. He changed one little piece and was not found to have plagiarized it.

 

I always thought that "Eighties" was a great cut, but "Come As You Are" still gives me chills.

[ReRushed]

http://youtu.be/LlnmNkMivHc

 

http://youtu.be/KL7Jk8IMVXA

 

STP's

also borrows the same riff.

It's a nice groove, much like a blues riff you'd find in a million songs.