Test for Echo vs Vapor Trails

[presto123]

I love Vapor Trails so much. It was the first album I listened to all the way though but my gawds I wish they'd get that thing re-mastered.

 

They did. It's they HD tracks (I tunes) thing for 2013. That Andy (forget his last name) guy spent 4 days on VT alone so it's probably about as good as it's going to get without re-recording the whole record. The samples I heard sound waaay better.

A remix will help (did you listen to the Retrospective remixes), but the HDTracks remasters are an improvement, even when whittled down to iTunes playable levels. But I can't wait for the day that the remix comes out.

 

True....but anybody on this board that likes the songs on VT but found the CD unlistenable should buy the HD tracks now. The ear fatigue is gone and so is the clipping. Better separation of instruments and EQ. Very impressive improvement for just a remaster.

[JohnnyBlaze]

Since Counterparts was brought up, I might as well bring up RTB which I think is worse overall than VT, T4E, and Counterparts. I only like Dreamline, Bravado, Where's My Thing, and Lifeson's solo in Ghost of a Chance. Other material on there is tolerable or hammy. Lyrically though I think it obliterates T4E.

I'm listening to Bones now (1st time this year) to give it some more thought

[Rutlefan]

Since Counterparts was brought up, I might as well bring up RTB which I think is worse overall than VT, T4E, and Counterparts. I only like Dreamline, Bravado, Where's My Thing, and Lifeson's solo in Ghost of a Chance. Other material on there is tolerable or hammy. Lyrically though I think it obliterates T4E.

I'm listening to Bones now (1st time this year) to give it some more thought

 

I agree. I've been listening to T4E back through RTB because of the discussion here, and my impression of T4E was greatly improved. Outside of some cheesy lyrics, the music is pretty damn good on the whole. I know this is blasphemy to some, but if you toned down Neil Pearts oh-so-literal lyric writing (the weak link in post MP Rush methinks), you'd have a really decent album. I'll stick with Vapor Trails in a head to head, but I think T4E belongs more to VT and later than the five albums that came before it, which is high praise for me. Contrarywise, repeated listenings to Counterparts and RTB have further soured me on those albums. I've been putting together a rush songlist for my minivan's HD (yes, I've got kids n stuff), and the only songs I'm selecting from RTB and Counterparts are Bravado, Animate and Leave That Thing Alone, whereas the whole albums are recorded for T4E and on (also true of 2112 through GUP; everything else is selectively part of the Everything Else playlist).

 

So, in short, I still vote for VT, but T4E isn't as far behind as I used to think.

[analog guy]

My own personal thoughts.

 

CP is possibly Rush's best sounding record, but I don't like the songs quite as much. I find songs like Animate and Stick it Out to be discordant and gloomy and have never particularly enjoyed either one live.

 

T4E is a great album musically but I find it to be Neil's worst effort lyrically and that makes a lot of the songs difficult to listen to.

 

VT - no need to repeat what others have said ad naseum, but count me among those who finds it absolutely unlistenable on a production level and feels like some really wonderful music wasn't done justice.

 

It's a shame that these things never lined up.... if you had Vapor Trails recorded and engineered like Counterparts was, that album would be such a f-cking incredible jewel, it's not funny.

[presto123]

My own personal thoughts.

 

CP is possibly Rush's best sounding record, but I don't like the songs quite as much. I find songs like Animate and Stick it Out to be discordant and gloomy and have never particularly enjoyed either one live.

 

T4E is a great album musically but I find it to be Neil's worst effort lyrically and that makes a lot of the songs difficult to listen to.

 

VT - no need to repeat what others have said ad naseum, but count me among those who finds it absolutely unlistenable on a production level and feels like some really wonderful music wasn't done justice.

 

It's a shame that these things never lined up.... if you had Vapor Trails recorded and engineered like Counterparts was, that album would be such a f-cking incredible jewel, it's not funny.

 

 

 

On that note I don't understand why Rush doesn't switch the engineer/producer out. They are writing great material and are being let down every time with production. A band this good shouldn't have sub standard sounding recordings. Nick R. is great at getting performances out of the band but I don't think him or Chycki either one is doing Rush justice. Keep Nick for arrangement/performance ideas but get somebody totally new for everything else IMO.

[driventotheedge]

My own personal thoughts.

 

CP is possibly Rush's best sounding record, but I don't like the songs quite as much. I find songs like Animate and Stick it Out to be discordant and gloomy and have never particularly enjoyed either one live.

 

T4E is a great album musically but I find it to be Neil's worst effort lyrically and that makes a lot of the songs difficult to listen to.

 

VT - no need to repeat what others have said ad naseum, but count me among those who finds it absolutely unlistenable on a production level and feels like some really wonderful music wasn't done justice.

 

It's a shame that these things never lined up.... if you had Vapor Trails recorded and engineered like Counterparts was, that album would be such a f-cking incredible jewel, it's not funny.

 

 

 

On that note I don't understand why Rush doesn't switch the engineer/producer out. They are writing great material and are being let down every time with production. A band this good shouldn't have sub standard sounding recordings. Nick R. is great at getting performances out of the band but I don't think him or Chycki either one is doing Rush justice. Keep Nick for arrangement/performance ideas but get somebody totally new for everything else IMO.

Agree

[calirush]

As asked a few pages ago, does anyone from the UK rate Counterparts, as I've never read or seen a positive view of that record over here?? Too many circular arguments here and other albums being brought into the debate that were not part of the OP's poll.

 

Not sure why you're talking about Counterparts on a Test for Echo/Vapor Trails thread, then...

 

I personally have no problem, but according to your post, you do.

 

1) Several posters have mentioned counterparts in this thread as well as other albums that aren't strictly part of the OP's question which I addressed in my original post so I'm unsure why my post has been singled out?

 

2) I have no problem with Counterparts other than it's a very well recorded and very good sounding turd of a record bereft of most of the things that make Rush the band they are.

 

3) It seems that you have a problem and struggle to cope with somebody having a different perspective on what I truly consider to be one of the worst albums the band recorded. Speed of love? Alien Shore? Stick it Out?

 

4) British fans liking this record- it's an honest question as I have yet to find a british fan of this one. Perhaps our B/S detectors our more highly attuned over here to this kind of thing? :poke:

 

Just for fun I'm putting an amazon UK link here for you. Granted the limited sampling means not much is learned, but it does mean that there is more than one UK fan of CP fair enough?

 

http://www.amazon.co...howViewpoints=1

Edited June 26, 2013 by calirush

[2112rushfan1]

I'd take TFE over VT. Though VT is lyrically powerful and moving, even more, Test For Echo just has stunning songs to me on it. The songs on TFE are ones that I love seeing live. The thing that I think made Counterparts great was that it came after what I think is their weakest, Roll The Bones. Counterparts is still heavy and great either way.

[coventry]

I'd take TFE over VT. Though VT is lyrically powerful and moving, even more, Test For Echo just has stunning songs to me on it. The songs on TFE are ones that I love seeing live. The thing that I think made Counterparts great was that it came after what I think is their weakest, Roll The Bones. Counterparts is still heavy and great either way.

 

Wow - i think I disagree completely on everything except CP being a heavy and great album. T4E's songs seem forced and trite and downright ponderous when played live; RTB, though a bit thin in production, was actually a good album (ecxcept for the self-righteous superficiality of "Heresy").

 

Huh. Different strokes...

[analog guy]

I think the last two albums are actually improving, sonically, but nowhere near the level of earlier records.

 

The name doesn't lie.... I'm an analog guy, and those late 70s and early 80s albums to my ears just shine like diamonds.

[GeddyLeeRoth]

Vapor Trails has so much more emotion and energy. Yeah, the mix and production could have been different, but there is a lot going on in those songs. T4E is kinda unmemorable, no bad songs, just pretty good to decent, whereas several of VT's songs are awesome with good b-sides too. VT has an almost mysterious vibe to it for me—they were coming from a much different place when they recorded this one.

[presto123]

Vapor Trails has so much more emotion and energy. Yeah, the mix and production could have been different, but there is a lot going on in those songs. T4E is kinda unmemorable, no bad songs, just pretty good to decent, whereas several of VT's songs are awesome with good b-sides too. VT has an almost mysterious vibe to it for me—they were coming from a much different place when they recorded this one.

 

I agree totally. VT is very unique. Alex is on fire with those riffs throughout. Totally under-rated record in the Rush catalog.

[Jaminbenb]

I think the last two albums are actually improving, sonically, but nowhere near the level of earlier records.

 

The name doesn't lie.... I'm an analog guy, and those late 70s and early 80s albums to my ears just shine like diamonds.

 

There's a lot to what you're saying! In the 70's 80's and a little in the 90's you were pretty much using about 48 analog tracks (well unless you're Queen and overdubbing the shit out of everything) Now with the unlimited amount of digital tracks I think things are getting lost, and filling in spaces that you never filled before. Too much is not always better...16 tracks and the right guy mixing it is a LOT better than 200 tracks, and "dude, this sounds cool!"

 

 

That said,,,since the "track" damage is done, and you don't want to just abort the thing...VT should get one of those Steven Wilson remix treatments! (as much as I'd rather he do another Porcupine Tree album) I think someone taking those tracks and totally remixing it MIGHT lend to some of us liking it a little better... I DO like the sound on the live versions of those songs a LOT better than the studio

[coventry]

Vapor Trails has so much more emotion and energy. Yeah, the mix and production could have been different, but there is a lot going on in those songs. T4E is kinda unmemorable, no bad songs, just pretty good to decent, whereas several of VT's songs are awesome with good b-sides too. VT has an almost mysterious vibe to it for me—they were coming from a much different place when they recorded this one.

 

I think you nailed it with the "mysterious vibe" call. Songs like 'Vapor Trail' and 'Ghost Rider' and 'Freeze' seem unlike any other in the Rush pantheon.

[Astromancer]

Vapor Trails for me all the way. I can crank up VT and rock out to the whole thing start to finish, enjoying every second. It's bright, hot, urgent. Love it. I skip through most of Test For Echo, sadly. I like the opening track and Driven kicks ass, but other than that...I don't even think I remember the other tracks.

 

I mean, come on. One Little Victory, Vapor Trails, Earthshine, they just rock so goddamned hard. And even if everything in between isn't as memorable, I don't have any urge to skip songs.

[ZachenFoot]

I adore Test For Echo. I never understood the idea that the songs were bland. I think musically the guys are really tight, I like Neil's lyrical work, and as an album it flows quite well. One of my "dark horse" favorite Rush albums. I love the title track, "Half the World," "Color of Right," "Time and Motion," "Totem," "Virtuality," "Limbo," and "Carve Away the Stone" a lot, they're some of my favorites in the catalog. Wish they'd pull out some tracks off the album more frequently.

 

VT might actually be my least favorite Rush disc outside of the debut. It's an earsore sonically, and while the good songs are some of their best (particularly OLV, "Freeze," "Secret Touch," and "Ceiling Unlimited"), I feel like the bad songs are truly awful, some of their worst.

 

So when it comes down to it, I simply think T4E is a more balanced record, and I'd take it any day of the week over VT.

Edited June 30, 2013 by ZachenFoot

[coventry]

I adore Test For Echo. I never understood the idea that the songs were bland. I think musically the guys are really tight, I like Neil's lyrical work, and as an album it flows quite well. One of my "dark horse" favorite Rush albums. I love the title track, "Half the World," "Color of Right," "Time and Motion," "Totem," "Virtuality," "Limbo," and "Carve Away the Stone" a lot, they're some of my favorites in the catalog. Wish they'd pull out some tracks off the album more frequently.

 

VT might actually be my least favorite Rush disc outside of the debut. It's an earsore sonically, and while the good songs are some of their best (particularly OLV, "Freeze," "Secret Touch," and "Ceiling Unlimited"), I feel like the bad songs are truly awful, some of their worst.

 

So when it comes down to it, I simply think T4E is a more balanced record, and I'd take it any day of the week over VT.

 

T4E may be more balanced because there's little emotion behind it. It's, indeed, tight songwriting; but lyrically it's a blend of generic themes and insipid imagery. "Carve Away the Stone" has perhaps it's most in-depth lyrics.

[ZachenFoot]

I adore Test For Echo. I never understood the idea that the songs were bland. I think musically the guys are really tight, I like Neil's lyrical work, and as an album it flows quite well. One of my "dark horse" favorite Rush albums. I love the title track, "Half the World," "Color of Right," "Time and Motion," "Totem," "Virtuality," "Limbo," and "Carve Away the Stone" a lot, they're some of my favorites in the catalog. Wish they'd pull out some tracks off the album more frequently.

 

VT might actually be my least favorite Rush disc outside of the debut. It's an earsore sonically, and while the good songs are some of their best (particularly OLV, "Freeze," "Secret Touch," and "Ceiling Unlimited"), I feel like the bad songs are truly awful, some of their worst.

 

So when it comes down to it, I simply think T4E is a more balanced record, and I'd take it any day of the week over VT.

 

T4E may be more balanced because there's little emotion behind it. It's, indeed, tight songwriting; but lyrically it's a blend of generic themes and insipid imagery. "Carve Away the Stone" has perhaps it's most in-depth lyrics.

 

Meh. I enjoy it.

[coventry]

I adore Test For Echo. I never understood the idea that the songs were bland. I think musically the guys are really tight, I like Neil's lyrical work, and as an album it flows quite well. One of my "dark horse" favorite Rush albums. I love the title track, "Half the World," "Color of Right," "Time and Motion," "Totem," "Virtuality," "Limbo," and "Carve Away the Stone" a lot, they're some of my favorites in the catalog. Wish they'd pull out some tracks off the album more frequently.

 

VT might actually be my least favorite Rush disc outside of the debut. It's an earsore sonically, and while the good songs are some of their best (particularly OLV, "Freeze," "Secret Touch," and "Ceiling Unlimited"), I feel like the bad songs are truly awful, some of their worst.

 

So when it comes down to it, I simply think T4E is a more balanced record, and I'd take it any day of the week over VT.

 

T4E may be more balanced because there's little emotion behind it. It's, indeed, tight songwriting; but lyrically it's a blend of generic themes and insipid imagery. "Carve Away the Stone" has perhaps it's most in-depth lyrics.

 

Meh. I enjoy it.

 

There are parts I enjoy, too. The music of "Color of Right" and "Carve" and especially 'Totem' is beautiful. Idk; it just seems to pale in comparison to the more authentic writing of CP and VT.

[jnoble]

I adore Test For Echo. I never understood the idea that the songs were bland. I think musically the guys are really tight, I like Neil's lyrical work, and as an album it flows quite well. One of my "dark horse" favorite Rush albums. I love the title track, "Half the World," "Color of Right," "Time and Motion," "Totem," "Virtuality," "Limbo," and "Carve Away the Stone" a lot, they're some of my favorites in the catalog. Wish they'd pull out some tracks off the album more frequently.

 

VT might actually be my least favorite Rush disc outside of the debut. It's an earsore sonically, and while the good songs are some of their best (particularly OLV, "Freeze," "Secret Touch," and "Ceiling Unlimited"), I feel like the bad songs are truly awful, some of their worst.

 

So when it comes down to it, I simply think T4E is a more balanced record, and I'd take it any day of the week over VT.

 

T4E may be more balanced because there's little emotion behind it. It's, indeed, tight songwriting; but lyrically it's a blend of generic themes and insipid imagery. "Carve Away the Stone" has perhaps it's most in-depth lyrics.

 

I don't hate Carve Away The Stone or consider it awful, but it's the most "hey, we have four minutes left to fill let's whip something out real quick" Rush song to end an album I've ever heard. It's very generic sounding for them

[JohnnyBlaze]

I adore Test For Echo. I never understood the idea that the songs were bland. I think musically the guys are really tight, I like Neil's lyrical work, and as an album it flows quite well. One of my "dark horse" favorite Rush albums. I love the title track, "Half the World," "Color of Right," "Time and Motion," "Totem," "Virtuality," "Limbo," and "Carve Away the Stone" a lot, they're some of my favorites in the catalog. Wish they'd pull out some tracks off the album more frequently.

 

VT might actually be my least favorite Rush disc outside of the debut. It's an earsore sonically, and while the good songs are some of their best (particularly OLV, "Freeze," "Secret Touch," and "Ceiling Unlimited"), I feel like the bad songs are truly awful, some of their worst.

 

So when it comes down to it, I simply think T4E is a more balanced record, and I'd take it any day of the week over VT.

 

T4E may be more balanced because there's little emotion behind it. It's, indeed, tight songwriting; but lyrically it's a blend of generic themes and insipid imagery. "Carve Away the Stone" has perhaps it's most in-depth lyrics.

 

I don't hate Carve Away The Stone or consider it awful, but it's the most "hey, we have four minutes left to fill let's whip something out real quick" Rush song to end an album I've ever heard. It's very generic sounding for them

I don't hate it either. But when that album came out AND that song closed, I thought it might be the end of the band. It just seemed uninspired and going through motions

[Spindrift82]

Vapor Trails is such a better album, on so many levels. Musically, it's much more extravagant.

[OneLittleVictory]

test for echo!