Test for Echo vs Vapor Trails

[lifeson90]

totally brilliant and different albums, one the end of the 90s period the other beginning of 00's where the band really get their teeth out... in contrast, TFE a much cooler and relaxed album imo.

 

i cant say one better than the other in this case... its like comparing Counterparts with caress of steel; yes there's a tenuous connection but they could almost have been produced by different bands

 

however, although i couldnt say which album better, i do say a number of tracks like earthshine, secret touch, ghost rider and nocturne have an even more special place in the annals of rush greatness

 

in fact hang on...

 

hang on....

 

.......... yeah, I'm going to give it to VT

 

just too powerful an album... yeah it can sound harsh on the ears at times but just on earthshine alone, mindblowing rush man.

 

T4E's a great rush album i love it and play it all the time it'll never be dated..... but the teeth were all the way out for VT.

Edited June 20, 2013 by lifeson90

[Stormtron]

I like Driven and the title track, but Test for Echo is my least favorite Rush album, so Vapor Trails wins easily for me.

[Rutlefan]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

[LedRush]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

[rushgoober]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

This coming from the man who brought you:

 

TFE and VT are better than just about everything from 1982 on, and CP is the band's worst album.

 

:crazy:

[LedRush]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

This coming from the man who brought you:

 

TFE and VT are better than just about everything from 1982 on, and CP is the band's worst album.

 

:crazy:

 

Indisputable facts.

[GeddysMullet]

I find most of Test For Echo to be forgettable. I always think I should give Test For Echo more of a chance, but then I put it on and forget to pay attention because it doesn't engage me. I've learnt never to completely dismiss a Rush album considering how long it's taken for me to catch on to some of them (and how long it took me to catch on to Rush in general! ) but for now it's a Rush album that I still don't know intimately because it hasn't beckoned me close.

 

Vapour Trails easily gets my vote as the most frustrating Rush album, because it has wonderful songs on it but I am counted among those who have difficulty with the production. I haven't heard the supposedly improved remastering because I cannot pay for an entire virtual box set just to get it. Sadly, Vapour Trails remains a diamond with a huge flaw.

 

As for Counterparts, which has somehow become part of the discussion, I love four of the songs (Animate, Between Sun And Moon, Leave That Thing Alone and Everyday Glory) and the rest I can firmly do without.

[H. P. L.]

Vapor Trails, Vapor Trails,Vapor Trails. I never listen to Test for Echo.

[Rutlefan]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

Indeed. In fact, I like it more than anything they've done after Moving Pictures, in spite of Neil Peart's emerging journal-entry-as-song-lyric style of wiriting. A Larger Bowl is one of their best songs, I think, aside from Richard Dawkins-channeled refrain ("the world's so badly arranged" -- yeah, our world really sucks compared to other worlds). Several other strong tracks incl three really excellent instrumentals. I think VT and S&A were the first albums since Moving Pictures that a non-Rush-specific music fan can easily appreciate. Just my opinion, obviously.

[LedRush]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

Indeed. In fact, I like it more than anything they've done after Moving Pictures, in spite of Neil Peart's emerging journal-entry-as-song-lyric style of wiriting. A Larger Bowl is one of their best songs, I think, aside from Richard Dawkins-channeled refrain ("the world's so badly arranged" -- yeah, our world really sucks compared to other worlds). Several other strong tracks incl three really excellent instrumentals. I think VT and S&A were the first albums since Moving Pictures that a non-Rush-specific music fan can easily appreciate. Just my opinion, obviously.

 

Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

[laughedatbytime]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

This coming from the man who brought you:

 

TFE and VT are better than just about everything from 1982 on, and CP is the band's worst album.

 

:crazy:

 

Indisputable facts.

TFE and VT better than p/g and CA? :rfl:

[hammerofthor]

Both are very underrated. I think a better battle would be a tag team match between T4E and VT and S & A and CA. Ill go with the former By a longshot.

[Lerxster]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

Indeed. In fact, I like it more than anything they've done after Moving Pictures, in spite of Neil Peart's emerging journal-entry-as-song-lyric style of wiriting. A Larger Bowl is one of their best songs, I think, aside from Richard Dawkins-channeled refrain ("the world's so badly arranged" -- yeah, our world really sucks compared to other worlds). Several other strong tracks incl three really excellent instrumentals. I think VT and S&A were the first albums since Moving Pictures that a non-Rush-specific music fan can easily appreciate. Just my opinion, obviously.

 

Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

are you trying rushgoober, jr.? You need a new shtick, dawg. Copying RG's act is lame.

[LedRush]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

This coming from the man who brought you:

 

TFE and VT are better than just about everything from 1982 on, and CP is the band's worst album.

 

:crazy:

 

Indisputable facts.

TFE and VT better than p/g and CA? :rfl:

 

I'll give you those two!

[LedRush]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

Indeed. In fact, I like it more than anything they've done after Moving Pictures, in spite of Neil Peart's emerging journal-entry-as-song-lyric style of wiriting. A Larger Bowl is one of their best songs, I think, aside from Richard Dawkins-channeled refrain ("the world's so badly arranged" -- yeah, our world really sucks compared to other worlds). Several other strong tracks incl three really excellent instrumentals. I think VT and S&A were the first albums since Moving Pictures that a non-Rush-specific music fan can easily appreciate. Just my opinion, obviously.

 

Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

are you trying rushgoober, jr.? You need a new shtick, dawg. Copying RG's act is lame.

 

Well, when we talk about whether or not non-Rush fans can appreciate it, I think we get into the area where we can quantify things a bit. Non-Rush fans obviously like RTB more than CP, Presto and HYF as RTB sold more than the band was selling earlier or later. The same argument holds for VT and S&A. Obviously there are other factors, but this is a more objective discussion than just, "VP sucks", "No, CP sucks!"

[LedRush]

Both are very underrated. I think a better battle would be a tag team match between T4E and VT and S & A and CA. Ill go with the former By a longshot.

 

That's an interesting question. I love CA and really dislike CA, while I just think that T4E and VT are very good albums (putting them in the middle of my Rush rankings. Do you take the middle, easy way or take the way that has such wonderful highs and dreadful lows? Right now I'd go with T4E/VT just because I don't know that my adoration of CA will hold the test of time. It has stayed for a year, but that's just a minute in Rush-time.

[Lerxster]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

Indeed. In fact, I like it more than anything they've done after Moving Pictures, in spite of Neil Peart's emerging journal-entry-as-song-lyric style of wiriting. A Larger Bowl is one of their best songs, I think, aside from Richard Dawkins-channeled refrain ("the world's so badly arranged" -- yeah, our world really sucks compared to other worlds). Several other strong tracks incl three really excellent instrumentals. I think VT and S&A were the first albums since Moving Pictures that a non-Rush-specific music fan can easily appreciate. Just my opinion, obviously.

 

Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

are you trying rushgoober, jr.? You need a new shtick, dawg. Copying RG's act is lame.

 

Well, when we talk about whether or not non-Rush fans can appreciate it, I think we get into the area where we can quantify things a bit. Non-Rush fans obviously like RTB more than CP, Presto and HYF as RTB sold more than the band was selling earlier or later. The same argument holds for VT and S&A. Obviously there are other factors, but this is a more objective discussion than just, "VP sucks", "No, CP sucks!"

Your devotion to hating CP is lame. Don't be a goober jr. TRF needs less dicks. :)

[ShlappinDahBass]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

Indeed. In fact, I like it more than anything they've done after Moving Pictures, in spite of Neil Peart's emerging journal-entry-as-song-lyric style of wiriting. A Larger Bowl is one of their best songs, I think, aside from Richard Dawkins-channeled refrain ("the world's so badly arranged" -- yeah, our world really sucks compared to other worlds). Several other strong tracks incl three really excellent instrumentals. I think VT and S&A were the first albums since Moving Pictures that a non-Rush-specific music fan can easily appreciate. Just my opinion, obviously.

 

Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

are you trying rushgoober, jr.? You need a new shtick, dawg. Copying RG's act is lame.

 

Well, when we talk about whether or not non-Rush fans can appreciate it, I think we get into the area where we can quantify things a bit. Non-Rush fans obviously like RTB more than CP, Presto and HYF as RTB sold more than the band was selling earlier or later. The same argument holds for VT and S&A. Obviously there are other factors, but this is a more objective discussion than just, "VP sucks", "No, CP sucks!"

Your devotion to hating CP is lame. Don't be a goober jr. TRF needs less dicks. :)

 

I thought Goobs liked Counterparts, somewhat?

[J2112YYZ]

Vapor Trails gets my vote. Bad production aside, the songs are just so much better than what's on T4E.

[Jaminbenb]

Not a big fan of either... I LOVE Driven, but can only TAKE a few of the others, but hate the rest of it...I guess I can say I liked the "acoustic" version of Resist as well...

 

VT...I LIKE Ghost Rider, Secret Touch and Earthshine, ONLY because of how they came across on tour. The rest of the album, just blows IMHO....I was happy they got back together, and recorded, but it wasn't one of their best, and with Snakes and Arrows, and Clockwork Angels, they PROVED that they could still write music together!

[Rutlefan]

LedRush wrote: Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

 

I suppose I should have said any non-Rush devotee with tastes remotely like mine or others I know. I have several friends who don't like Rush in general, but they think VT and S&A is at least ok, while they can't stomach the late '80's and '90's stuff; I remember a couple of them laughing at Roll the Bones' rap.

 

But comparing album sales b/t the age of download and pre-download isn't really valid, is it? How about this: acc to Wikipedia's Rush Discography page, VT and S&A went to #3 in Canada, and #6 and #3 in the U.S. respectively. Compare that to Signals (#1 CAN and #10 US) and RtB (#11 and #3). So I'd say comparing apples to apples (sales strength relative to the market), VT/S&A arguably did better than Signals/RtB. In fact, only Moving Pictures at 1 and 3 and CA at 1 and 2 did better than VT/S&A. So not only is my opinion close to being accurate, I think it arguably is accurate, unlike yours.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Rutlefan

[LedRush]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

Indeed. In fact, I like it more than anything they've done after Moving Pictures, in spite of Neil Peart's emerging journal-entry-as-song-lyric style of wiriting. A Larger Bowl is one of their best songs, I think, aside from Richard Dawkins-channeled refrain ("the world's so badly arranged" -- yeah, our world really sucks compared to other worlds). Several other strong tracks incl three really excellent instrumentals. I think VT and S&A were the first albums since Moving Pictures that a non-Rush-specific music fan can easily appreciate. Just my opinion, obviously.

 

Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

are you trying rushgoober, jr.? You need a new shtick, dawg. Copying RG's act is lame.

 

Well, when we talk about whether or not non-Rush fans can appreciate it, I think we get into the area where we can quantify things a bit. Non-Rush fans obviously like RTB more than CP, Presto and HYF as RTB sold more than the band was selling earlier or later. The same argument holds for VT and S&A. Obviously there are other factors, but this is a more objective discussion than just, "VP sucks", "No, CP sucks!"

Your devotion to hating CP is lame. Don't be a goober jr. TRF needs less dicks. :)

Excellent contribution for bringing down the level of dickness in here.

[LedRush]

LedRush wrote: Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

 

I suppose I should have said any non-Rush devotee with tastes remotely like mine or others I know. I have several friends who don't like Rush in general, but they think VT and S&A is at least ok, while they can't stomach the late '80's and '90's stuff; I remember a couple of them laughing at Roll the Bones' rap.

 

As well, Signals and RtB were released while Rush was in their commercial prime, unlike VT and S&A. Also, they were supported by singles, and Signals was carried (arguably) by the broad appeal won by Moving Pictures; doesn't mean people in general thought Signals and RtB were really appealing albums (maybe many did; people like Matchbox 20 and Creed, so who knows).

 

Lastly, comparing album sales b/t the age of download and pre-download isn't really valid, is it? How about this: acc to Wikipedia's Rush Discography page, VT and S&A went to #3 in Canada, and #6 and #3 in the U.S. Compare that to Signals (#1 CAN and #10 US) and RtB (#11 and #3). So I'd say comparing apples to apples (sales strength relative to the market), VT/S&A arguably did better than Signals/RtB. In fact, only Moving Pictures at 1 and 3 and CA at 1 and 2 did better. So not only is my opinion close to being accurate, I think it arguably is accurate.

 

RTB came after almost a decade of decreasing album sales...HYF and Presto were the only two albums not to go platinum since Caress of Steel. RTB reversed that trend.

 

And while it is true that people buy less albums nowadays, if you buy the digital version of the entire album, I believe it still counts as an album sale. Also, they changed what it takes to get into the top for a release, and Rush, as is typical of cult bands, sells a shitload the first weak and then sales trickle. That is a measure of the hardcore, not the measure of the casuals. Those sales are measured in the coming weeks as word of mouth, radio, or internet induce more people to buy. That's how RTB went platinum, and that's why S&A will never go gold.

 

And the band did release singles from those albums, it's just that no one liked them. RTB had 4 singles in the top 15, and Signals had 3 in the top 20. Despite releasing 7 singles from VT and S&A, only 4 charted and only one was top 20. And radio is different nowadays. It is much easier to chart in the US Main category now as there is so much less competition as the format and genre becomes decreasingly popular as music continues to fragment into more and more niches.

 

The position that casual fans like VT and S&A more than the band's 1982-96 output is very, very unlikely to be true as it just isn't supported by much evidence.

[theanalogmiddleagedman]

I think I like Vapor Trails better overall. At the time it came out, I really like TfE, just because it was another heavy album (departing from RtB and Presto), but it hasn't aged as well with me as Counterparts.

 

Driven is one of my all time favorite songs. I really like Half the World, Totem (which could have been fantastic if it wasn't for the 1000's Geddys parts).Carve Away the Stone and The Color of Right. I also like Dog Years and Virtuality, which most people hate. They have good groves.

 

On VT, you can't beat Earthshine, OLV, Secret Touch and Ceiling Unlimited.

[Lerxster]

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

Indeed. In fact, I like it more than anything they've done after Moving Pictures, in spite of Neil Peart's emerging journal-entry-as-song-lyric style of wiriting. A Larger Bowl is one of their best songs, I think, aside from Richard Dawkins-channeled refrain ("the world's so badly arranged" -- yeah, our world really sucks compared to other worlds). Several other strong tracks incl three really excellent instrumentals. I think VT and S&A were the first albums since Moving Pictures that a non-Rush-specific music fan can easily appreciate. Just my opinion, obviously.

 

Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

are you trying rushgoober, jr.? You need a new shtick, dawg. Copying RG's act is lame.

 

Well, when we talk about whether or not non-Rush fans can appreciate it, I think we get into the area where we can quantify things a bit. Non-Rush fans obviously like RTB more than CP, Presto and HYF as RTB sold more than the band was selling earlier or later. The same argument holds for VT and S&A. Obviously there are other factors, but this is a more objective discussion than just, "VP sucks", "No, CP sucks!"

Your devotion to hating CP is lame. Don't be a goober jr. TRF needs less dicks. :)

 

I thought Goobs liked Counterparts, somewhat?

My point being, Ledrush likes to put down CP as much as goober loves putting down VT. LR should be embarrased he copies goobers shtick, but he's not, and that's okay if you obviously don't care about being perceived as a lame goober copycat. It shouldn't be hard to come up with an original shtick for TRF, but some folks have no creativity.