If Fly By Night Was Their First Album

[rushgoober]

With all the talk of whether or not Rush will mention John Rutsey in their RRHOF induction speech, and how far Rush would have continued on (or not) had Rutsey stayed in the band and Peart never joined, what if Fly By Night with Neil was their first album?

 

Would it have garnered enough attention to allow Rush to continue? Would they have gotten a record contract from a major label based on the demos of FBN material, or would they have had to release it on their own like they actually did with their debut album?

 

It's a tough question, as are all "what if" questions, as it's pure speculation, but I wonder. The circumstances ( ;) ) of Rush's early history that got them really noticed (Donna Halper, Working Man, etc.) were very specific. What if the band had come on the scene in 1975 (or even 1974) with the Fly By Night album. Would the song Fly By Night still have been a minor hit? Maybe Anthem? Making Memories? Certainly By-Tor or Rivendell wouldn't have propelled them into the spotlight!

 

Think about it. With Fly By Night they were kinda somewhat prog, but would that album really have been noticed among all the great rock and prog albums of the day if it was their first, especially since by 1975 prog as a genre was losing popularity? Without the momentum of their first album and Working Man and the modest fan base they had acquired as a Zeppelin-like band, would Fly By Night truly have been, to paraphrase from the dictionary definition of the term, "of an impermanent or insubstantial nature," to the point that they wouldn't have been able to progress further?

Edited April 12, 2013 by rushgoober

[GeddysMullet]

:rfl:

 

"Has this question ever been considered." Goobs, you kill me!

[rushgoober]

:rfl:

 

"Has this question ever been considered." Goobs, you kill me!

 

I removed that line from my initial post as it wasn't well worded and was inconsequential to the questions I was asking.

 

My imagining of this fictitious situation would be that Rush would have gotten a following based somewhat on the material, but that Neil's drumming specifically would have gotten them noticed. Without the barnburner that Working Man was, however, I truly wonder if Fly By Night the song (their best chance of getting a record company to notice them at the time) would have been enough to start their climb to success.

 

Mind you, I'm not questioning the musical abilities of Geddy, Alex and Neil had they started as the three of them, just their ability to get a big enough hit or local hit to get a record company to notice them and then continue to give them more chances with subsequent albums, a marketing push, etc. They very well may have broken up without success and had to pursue other musical ventures. I'd like to think that Neil would have been a successful drummer regardless, but it's hard to know. Plenty of highly talented musicians never make it without the right combination of talent, luck, timing, etc.

 

As I said before, the circumstances that led to their success were SO specific that I don't know if it would have happened without Working Man, John Rutsey, etc. I doubt they even would have written a song like Working Man had Neil been there from the outset. It might have been too straight ahead hard rock for Neil who would've influenced the band eariler, and Geddy might not have written any of the lyrics.

 

Working Man has very basic lyrics, but it was a message people could relate to, and then of course the long instrumental section and absolutely KILLER guitar solo really got them some attention. Fly By Night doesn't really have an equivalent of that - By-Tor had some really cool instrumentality, but the song content was just too weird to have propelled them into anything. Maybe the title track would have been catchy enough to still have been a minor hit and give them enough of a push to allow them to keep going...

Edited April 12, 2013 by rushgoober

[circumstantial tree]

I think Fly By Night has more "polish" than the first album and I think that some songs could have been singles. I think "Best I Can" would have been a good single. It was written I think before Neil joined so the lyrics are more understandable to the average listener.

[Tombstone Mountain]

Fly by Night changed the world bro! Of course they would've gone on to be the most successful canadian band ever...who can resist blue owls and kick ass songs about life and the underworld of Hades Edited April 12, 2013 by Tombstone Mountain

[rushgoober]

Fly by Night changed the world bro! Of course they would've gone on to be the most successful canadian band ever...who can resist blue owls and kick ass songs about life and the underworld of Hades

 

[tangy]

I am of the opinion that first disc was far more critical to their sucess than FBN and probably more critical than any other record until permanent waves or moving pictures. yeah, 2112 was also a major event but it did not kick the doors open to new fans like MP.

 

If FBN was their first record things may have turned very differently for the boys.

 

everyone can relate to cold beer after working all day.....

[tangy]

I think Fly By Night has more "polish" than the first album and I think that some songs could have been singles. I think "Best I Can" would have been a good single. It was written I think before Neil joined so the lyrics are more understandable to the average listener.

 

I agree with best i can being a good single track. love that tune and its energy!

[JohnnyBlaze]

I don't see Best I Can as a single. It's a fun little rock tune but it still seems very bar-bandy to me. Fly By Night was, as we know, their 2nd album and Rush didn't even think of Best I Can as a single. The fact is is that the singles off that album were Fly By Night and Making Memories...and not even those tunes did all that well.

 

That debut album was important in planting Rush's roots and getting people interested...and I think Working Man DID that. Fly By Night might've been too weird coming straight out of the gate. People just might not have latched on right away. However, 2112 kind of negates all of this speculation anyway...I mean, releasing 2112 assured them that core fan base regardless if it was their 3rd or 4th album

[snowdogged]

I don't see Best I Can as a single. It's a fun little rock tune but it still seems very bar-bandy to me. Fly By Night was, as we know, their 2nd album and Rush didn't even think of Best I Can as a single. The fact is is that the singles off that album were Fly By Night and Making Memories...and not even those tunes did all that well.

 

That debut album was important in planting Rush's roots and getting people interested...and I think Working Man DID that. Fly By Night might've been too weird coming straight out of the gate. People just might not have latched on right away. However, 2112 kind of negates all of this speculation anyway...I mean, releasing 2112 assured them that core fan base regardless if it was their 3rd or 4th album

I don't think any of the songs would have stood out to any radio stations the way Working Man did in Cleveland. It would have been a much bigger risk for a record company to sign them based on Fly by Night. It's a great album but it's a little bit all over the place as far as musical styles go and that confuses record companies.

[mstmompj]

Maybe it's a case of all the stars being aligned and no other combination would have worked things out as they have.

 

However, as someone who became a Rush fan during my freshman year of high school (1980-81), I can tell you that the only Rush song I can recall ever hearing before "Tom Sawyer" is "Fly By Night." FBN (the single) got a lot of play in 1975 on even the kinds of radio stations my parents had on in the car—which wasn't AOR!

 

Based on that, one might argue that Rush could've taken off with FBN, but even that song wouldn't have been written (I suspect) had not Neil's "ship come in" in the form of joining the band and heading out on tour in 1974—something that only happened due to "Working Man."

[rushgoober]

That debut album was important in planting Rush's roots and getting people interested...and I think Working Man DID that. Fly By Night might've been too weird coming straight out of the gate. People just might not have latched on right away. However, 2112 kind of negates all of this speculation anyway...I mean, releasing 2112 assured them that core fan base regardless if it was their 3rd or 4th album

 

Understood, but without the early success of Working Man, would FBN the song and album have had enough success for the record company to keep them on long enough for them to get to 2112?

[eshine]

It's fun to speculate - but all things have their place in the scheme of things.

 

Would Donna Halper have put "Fly By Night" into heavy rotation had that been the first single she heard?

 

I would venture to say probably not - Working Man was the right song at the right time.

 

So, it will be nice for the guys to give a shout out to Rutsey.

[eshine]

2112 was also a major event but it did not kick the doors open to new fans like MP.

 

2112 didnt break them into the mainstream like MP - but in terms of their success, it's probably their most critical record. If it failed, they were done.

 

Instead, it broke them out and set a standard for total creative freedom ever since

 

Pretty awesome :)

[circumstantial tree]

Well, if I'm correct, Rush won their first Juno award as best new artist AFTER Fly By Night was released.

[losingit2k]

Even If Fly By Night were an EP: ( Anthem, Beneath, Best I Can, Between & Behind, Fly By Night and By Tor-& The Snowdog) It would have garnished more respect and admiration than their debut album. Rush showed inclings of greatness, Fly by Night embraced and Showcased their Greatness! However its hard to dispute the impact that Working Man had on the band and their future!

 

:codger:

Edited April 14, 2013 by losingit2k

[JohnnyBlaze]

That debut album was important in planting Rush's roots and getting people interested...and I think Working Man DID that. Fly By Night might've been too weird coming straight out of the gate. People just might not have latched on right away. However, 2112 kind of negates all of this speculation anyway...I mean, releasing 2112 assured them that core fan base regardless if it was their 3rd or 4th album

 

Understood, but without the early success of Working Man, would FBN the song and album have had enough success for the record company to keep them on long enough for them to get to 2112?

 

Fair point. I imagine they would've had to release FBN on their own like the debut was

[Aikenrooster]

The fact that they've stayed together and toured so heavily, like all the other great bands, probably has the most to do with it.

[bathory]

what if caress of steel was the first album???

[rushgoober]

what if caress of steel was the first album???

 

idk, maybe the label would have given them one more shot and then.... 2112!

 

i still maintain lakeside park should have been a MASSIVE hit - i have no idea why it wasn't.

[JohnnyBlaze]

what if caress of steel was the first album???

 

idk, maybe the label would have given them one more shot and then.... 2112!

 

i still maintain lakeside park should have been a MASSIVE hit - i have no idea why it wasn't.

 

Here are some of the #1 hits from 1975 that I randomly chose: Jive Talkin', Black Water, Rhinestone Cowboy, That's the Way (I like it), Love Will Keep Us Together, Thank God I'm a Country Boy. Like me I'm sure you know how all of these songs go even if you're not sure who sang them. I like some of them and don't care about the others one bit but it's unsurprising [imho] that Lakeside Park [a song I enjoy] wasn't a massive hit by simply looking at these list of tunes.

[rushgoober]

what if caress of steel was the first album???

 

idk, maybe the label would have given them one more shot and then.... 2112!

 

i still maintain lakeside park should have been a MASSIVE hit - i have no idea why it wasn't.

 

Here are some of the #1 hits from 1975 that I randomly chose: Jive Talkin', Black Water, Rhinestone Cowboy, That's the Way (I like it), Love Will Keep Us Together, Thank God I'm a Country Boy. Like me I'm sure you know how all of these songs go even if you're not sure who sang them. I like some of them and don't care about the others one bit but it's unsurprising [imho] that Lakeside Park [a song I enjoy] wasn't a massive hit by simply looking at these list of tunes.

 

And of course Lakeside Park is better than all those songs.

 

Lakeside Park has everything - it's kind of a ballad, it rocks, it's sentimental, it's catchy as hell with a very singable chorus, it's about something that anyone can relate to in terms of memories and nostalgia, it has superior instrumentation, virtuosic drumming, an awesome guitar solo, great instrumental parts and it's extremely melodic. What else could you want in a hit song?

 

With the right marketing, that song was a BIG hit.

[JohnnyBlaze]

what if caress of steel was the first album???

 

idk, maybe the label would have given them one more shot and then.... 2112!

 

i still maintain lakeside park should have been a MASSIVE hit - i have no idea why it wasn't.

 

Here are some of the #1 hits from 1975 that I randomly chose: Jive Talkin', Black Water, Rhinestone Cowboy, That's the Way (I like it), Love Will Keep Us Together, Thank God I'm a Country Boy. Like me I'm sure you know how all of these songs go even if you're not sure who sang them. I like some of them and don't care about the others one bit but it's unsurprising [imho] that Lakeside Park [a song I enjoy] wasn't a massive hit by simply looking at these list of tunes.

 

And of course Lakeside Park is better than all those songs.

 

Lakeside Park has everything - it's kind of a ballad, it rocks, it's sentimental, it's catchy as hell with a very singable chorus, it's about something that anyone can relate to in terms of memories and nostalgia, it has superior instrumentation, virtuosic drumming, an awesome guitar solo, great instrumental parts and it's extremely melodic. What else could you want in a hit song?

 

With the right marketing, that song was a BIG hit.

 

Well, I wasn't talking about how good Lakeside Park is. I was talking about what was popular that year. How do you market Lakeside Park when most people are grooving to The Bee Gees and Captain & Tennille? Know what I mean?

[rushgoober]

what if caress of steel was the first album???

 

idk, maybe the label would have given them one more shot and then.... 2112!

 

i still maintain lakeside park should have been a MASSIVE hit - i have no idea why it wasn't.

 

Here are some of the #1 hits from 1975 that I randomly chose: Jive Talkin', Black Water, Rhinestone Cowboy, That's the Way (I like it), Love Will Keep Us Together, Thank God I'm a Country Boy. Like me I'm sure you know how all of these songs go even if you're not sure who sang them. I like some of them and don't care about the others one bit but it's unsurprising [imho] that Lakeside Park [a song I enjoy] wasn't a massive hit by simply looking at these list of tunes.

 

And of course Lakeside Park is better than all those songs.

 

Lakeside Park has everything - it's kind of a ballad, it rocks, it's sentimental, it's catchy as hell with a very singable chorus, it's about something that anyone can relate to in terms of memories and nostalgia, it has superior instrumentation, virtuosic drumming, an awesome guitar solo, great instrumental parts and it's extremely melodic. What else could you want in a hit song?

 

With the right marketing, that song was a BIG hit.

 

Well, I wasn't talking about how good Lakeside Park is. I was talking about what was popular that year. How do you market Lakeside Park when most people are grooving to The Bee Gees and Captain & Tennille? Know what I mean?

 

You market it by pushing an awesome catchy song. And you're just looking at #1 hits - people listened to more rocking songs back then too. I'm not saying it would have got to #1 (God forbid even Tom Sawyer or The Spirit of Radio or Subdivisions or Closer to the Heart even would have done that), but I could easily see top 20. I guess in general the buying public has shit taste.

[JohnnyBlaze]

Goobs, have you forgotten how much radio attention Tom Sawyer and Subdivisions got at the time? And MTV played Rush pretty frequently in the early 80s. Don't you remember how easy it was to catch one of their videos? And NONE of those songs reached the top 20! Face it, Rush is a weird f***ing hard rock band. All the marketing in the world might not have helped many of their tunes