eshine Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (metaldad @ Aug 14 2012, 04:40 PM) Nah , i have plenty of discussions here and have no problems, no trolling . You are looking for shit as always . Go stir your crap somewhere else . You take exception to my opinions ? Like Amen ? That's your prob . Enjoy Translation: I cannot articulate a proper counter-argument. Dude, go re-read the posts. I didn't attack you in any way whatsoever so I don't know why you feel the need to attack me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Aug 14 2012, 04:51 PM) it's ironic that neil is now the preacher. What is he preaching, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 14 2012, 04:51 PM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Aug 14 2012, 04:40 PM) Nah , i have plenty of discussions here and have no problems, no trolling . You are looking for shit as always . Go stir your crap somewhere else . You take exception to my opinions ? Like Amen ? That's your prob . Enjoy Translation: I cannot articulate a proper counter-argument. Dude, go re-read the posts. I didn't attack you in any way whatsoever so I don't know why you feel the need to attack me. Yes re-read the posts . I said Amen, you came up with a wiseass comment . Translation - I can articulate a proper counter- argument with someone that comes up with something worth talking about . Trolls like you are the reason it sucks coming here when Rush puts out something new . It is clear you are not going to let this die and need to have the last word , congrats . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Principled Man Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (metaldad @ Aug 14 2012, 05:00 PM) Save your breath , with any luck he will go back under the bridge Wow man, you do not take well to having someone disagree with you. I've been coming to this board for quite some time and have never been met with total hostility for voicing my opinion. So what if I made a smart ass comment? Are you bleeding? Some arguments, like shooting down the lyricist for giving his opinion in an interview, I take issue with. Too bad. You, however, have made it personal by lambasting me as a troll and I think it says more about you then it does me - and yeah, that is my last word on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 14 2012, 04:58 PM) He didn't invent steam punk. He borrowed it. Many of his lyrics are borrowed from other writers like Shakespeare. There aren't many original concepts in his music. Even 2112 is borrowed heavily conceptually from the Who's "Lifehouse" project that was abandoned and became "Who's Next". Expecting him to invent an entire genre is a pretty tall order, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Enemy Without Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 14 2012, 03:43 PM) QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 14 2012, 03:41 PM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Aug 14 2012, 07:54 AM)Republicans just don't want to force people into helping others because it means more when it is voluntary. seriously, a totally laughable comment. Neil sure rubs right wingers in a wrong way. I love it. Who posted in: New Peart Interview Poster Posts eshine 17 metaldad 10 An Enemy Without 7 Sheldon Cooper 4 Amy Farrah Fowler 4 Lerxster 4 GeminiRising79 4 Workaholic Man 3 circumstantial tree 3 Gompers 2 They Bow Defeated 2 rushgoober 2 LedRush 2 Pound of Obscure 2 canadianice 2 treeduck 2 ThinkingBig 2 ReflectedLight 1 Snowman 1 Sin City 1 losingit2k 1 snowdogged 1 Ged Lent's sis 1 deslock 1 Jomboni 1 MMCXII 1 theredtamasrule 1 Animate 1 presto123 1 LeaveMyThingAlone 1 Who is getting rubbed the wrong way again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Aug 14 2012, 05:18 PM) QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 14 2012, 03:43 PM) QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 14 2012, 03:41 PM) QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Aug 14 2012, 07:54 AM)Republicans just don't want to force people into helping others because it means more when it is voluntary. seriously, a totally laughable comment. Neil sure rubs right wingers in a wrong way. I love it. Who posted in: New Peart Interview Poster Posts eshine 17 metaldad 10 An Enemy Without 7 Sheldon Cooper 4 Amy Farrah Fowler 4 Lerxster 4 GeminiRising79 4 Workaholic Man 3 circumstantial tree 3 Gompers 2 They Bow Defeated 2 rushgoober 2 LedRush 2 Pound of Obscure 2 canadianice 2 treeduck 2 ThinkingBig 2 ReflectedLight 1 Snowman 1 Sin City 1 losingit2k 1 snowdogged 1 Ged Lent's sis 1 deslock 1 Jomboni 1 MMCXII 1 theredtamasrule 1 Animate 1 presto123 1 LeaveMyThingAlone 1 Who is getting rubbed the wrong way again? Most of my posts are more about defending my non-troll status for voicing a strong counter-argument, but I appreciate the time and effort you put into your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 05:20 PM) They're welcome to say whatever they want, but sometimes you might not want to bite the hand that feeds you, or at least disrespect it so blatantly. I don't think the extreme Christian right make up enough of Rush's fanbase to justify pandering on the part of the band. And yes, The Enemy Within, this is my 19th post on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 14 2012, 03:35 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 05:20 PM) They're welcome to say whatever they want, but sometimes you might not want to bite the hand that feeds you, or at least disrespect it so blatantly. I don't think the extreme Christian right make up enough of Rush's fanbase to justify pandering on the part of the band. And yes, The Enemy Within, this is my 19th post on the subject. What about a song like Faithless that alienates a lot more people than just the group you mentioned? And what about Republicans that he threw under the bus that must be somewhere around half the audience? At what point does it become ok to insult large portions of their fans? When it's 40%? 30? 15? And don't take this to mean I even disagree with what Neil is saying. He's had extreme points of views on things, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't, but I won't go into specifics because this isn't SOCN. I'd rather he didn't comment on any of it and not try to be a political or activist band. It's unnecessarily distracting and polarizing. He doesn't have to be preachy in either direction. Anyway, like I said before, he can say whatever he wants, but then he has to be able to take the consequences of those actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Principled Man Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 05:20 PM) It's not about not being grown up enough to handle it or not - that's just you being unnecessarily insulting towards people reacting normally to polarizing points of view. I didn't find Neil's opinions to be polarizing at all. Those who did are simply voicing their opinions, which may or may not be correct. And I certainly did not insult anyone. Not in the least. I simply voiced my opinion about the issue being discussed, without making any personal swipe at anyone. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Aug 14 2012, 03:41 PM)QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 05:20 PM) It's not about not being grown up enough to handle it or not - that's just you being unnecessarily insulting towards people reacting normally to polarizing points of view. I didn't find Neil's opinions to be polarizing at all. Those who did are simply voicing their opinions, which may or may not be correct. I'm not sure how you can see putting forth a point of view that insults huge groups of people being anything but polarizing, but just because you don't find his statements polarizing doesn't mean other people don't. If you're not offended it's because obviously you don't belong to any of the groups that were offended and can't see the big deal, or just don't care, but not to acknowledge an offensive statement as being inoffensive to that group is just incorrect, not an opinion. And again, I'm not even disagreeing with Neil, I just find it unnecessary for him to be polarizing to some of his audience. QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Aug 14 2012, 03:41 PM)And I certainly did not insult anyone. Not in the least. I simply voiced my opinion about the issue being discussed, without making any personal swipe at anyone. I was responding to this: QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Aug 14 2012, 03:00 PM)We should all put our big-boy/big-girl pants on and deal with it. If we don't like it, we can stop listening to the band and move on with no hard feelings. This statement might not have been intended to be insulting, but it sure reads that way to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Farrah Fowler Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Goober, that's not an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshine Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 05:41 PM) QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 14 2012, 03:35 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 05:20 PM) They're welcome to say whatever they want, but sometimes you might not want to bite the hand that feeds you, or at least disrespect it so blatantly. I don't think the extreme Christian right make up enough of Rush's fanbase to justify pandering on the part of the band. And yes, The Enemy Within, this is my 19th post on the subject. What about a song like Faithless that alienates a lot more people than just the group you mentioned? And what about Republicans that he threw under the bus that must be somewhere around half the audience? At what point does it become ok to insult large portions of their fans? When it's 40%? 30? 15? And don't take this to mean I even disagree with what Neil is saying. He's had extreme points of views on things, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't, but I won't go into specifics because this isn't SOCN. I'd rather he didn't comment on any of it and not try to be a political or activist band. It's unnecessarily distracting and polarizing. He doesn't have to be preachy in either direction. Anyway, like I said before, he can say whatever he wants, but then he has to be able to take the consequences of those actions. Neil's recent foray into more literal commentary regarding religious extremism coincides with the real world we live in. It's a natural progression. The only consequence I see to this are discussions like this on messagboards. It certainly hasn't hurt ticket sales or their overall popularity in the slightest. My issue with all of this is the hypocrisy. Hard right Christians are the first and loudest to cry foul when they feel their right to express their beliefs are being encroached upon. Yet Neil publicly counters their beliefs with his opinion and he should just "just the f*ck up and play drums". This is being said by his own fans, which I find astounding. No different then telling a woman to shut up and go cook. The fact is, Neil will always be vocal about his opinions. In 93 he wrote a song sympathetic to gay people knowing full well that most of his audience are straight males. It was a brave move, and if it cost him any fans then good riddance. I feel the same here. Edited August 14, 2012 by eshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (Amy Farrah Fowler @ Aug 14 2012, 04:06 PM) Goober, that's not an insult. Maybe it wasn't meant that way, but it was in direct quoted response to my post, and it sure reads that way. It reads to me as "grow up if you don't like it or else feel free to give up on the band." The grow up part sounds insulting to me. And I'm not about to give up on a band I've loved for 30 years just because Neil makes obnoxious statements every once in awhile. I think most people who've been offended by some of his statements in lyrics or interviews feel this way. They're not going to dump years or decades of fandom and drop all the music by them that they do love just because sometimes Neil doesn't know when to say when, but it does kind of leave a bad taste in your mouth. It's unfortunate. It's unnecessary. Neil doesn't feel that way obviously. I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 14 2012, 04:16 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 05:41 PM) QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 14 2012, 03:35 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 05:20 PM) They're welcome to say whatever they want, but sometimes you might not want to bite the hand that feeds you, or at least disrespect it so blatantly. I don't think the extreme Christian right make up enough of Rush's fanbase to justify pandering on the part of the band. And yes, The Enemy Within, this is my 19th post on the subject. What about a song like Faithless that alienates a lot more people than just the group you mentioned? And what about Republicans that he threw under the bus that must be somewhere around half the audience? At what point does it become ok to insult large portions of their fans? When it's 40%? 30? 15? And don't take this to mean I even disagree with what Neil is saying. He's had extreme points of views on things, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't, but I won't go into specifics because this isn't SOCN. I'd rather he didn't comment on any of it and not try to be a political or activist band. It's unnecessarily distracting and polarizing. He doesn't have to be preachy in either direction. Anyway, like I said before, he can say whatever he wants, but then he has to be able to take the consequences of those actions. Neil's recent foray into more literal commentary regarding religious extremism coincides with the real world we live in. It's a natural progression. The only consequence I see to this are discussions like this on messagboards. It certainly hasn't hurt ticket sales or their overall popularity in the slightest. My issue with all of this is the hypocrisy. Hard right Christians are the first and loudest to cry foul when they feel their right to express their beliefs are being encroached upon. Yet Neil publicly counters their beliefs with his opinion and he should just "just the f*ck up and play drums". This is being said by his own fans, which I find astounding. No different then telling a woman to shut up and go cook. The fact is, Neil will always be vocal about his opinions. In 93 he wrote a song sympathetic to gay people knowing full well that most of his audience are straight males. It was a brave move, and if it cost him any fans then good riddance. I feel the same here. It's a natural progression to go from saying something with enough room for interpretation as to be inoffensive to being overtly offensive... because of the times we live in? And your analogy with women makes no sense. Being annoyed that a musician makes polarizing overtly offensive statements to portions of their audience does not equate with that example at all. And ONCE AGAIN, I know that some people will make assumptions of my beliefs because I'm taking offense, and there's a good chance you'd be wrong. It's not about whether I agree with Neil or not. I just don't agree with him being this polarizing when he doesn't have to be. I understand the example you're giving about Nobody's Hero. That's a tough one. For me that song seems to be about acceptance and inclusion, and even though that might bug some people, it's still about acceptance and inclusion. His recent statements and some song lyrics seem to about not accepting groups of people, insulting and invalidating people's beliefs and being judgmental. It's a fine line, and he crossed it. Like I said above, most fans aren't going to stop buying Rush albums or going to their concerts after years or decades of being devoted fans just because one or two seriously obnoxious statements or song lyrics, but that doesn't mean they're happy with what he's saying either, and it definitely doesn't mean they'll shut up about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 14 2012, 06:09 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 14 2012, 04:58 PM) He didn't invent steam punk. He borrowed it. Many of his lyrics are borrowed from other writers like Shakespeare. There aren't many original concepts in his music. Even 2112 is borrowed heavily conceptually from the Who's "Lifehouse" project that was abandoned and became "Who's Next". Expecting him to invent an entire genre is a pretty tall order, don't you think? Keeping from copying people is not much of a tall order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staunchally Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Aug 13 2012, 08:41 PM) QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 13 2012, 07:48 PM) A realization I had lately: it is impossible to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and be a Republican. Go Neil! Yeah! f**k christian republicans! Liars! Excuse me?!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circumstantial tree Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 QUOTE (staunchally @ Aug 14 2012, 08:10 PM) QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Aug 13 2012, 08:41 PM) QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 13 2012, 07:48 PM) A realization I had lately: it is impossible to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and be a Republican. Go Neil! Yeah! f**k christian republicans! Liars! Excuse me?!!! theredtamasrules is being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staunchally Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 QUOTE (Jomboni @ Aug 13 2012, 07:23 PM) I agree with him 100% in this interview, especially the part where he goes into religious beliefs conflicting with political affiliations. I think if we say too much more this thread is going to get moved! There's nothing wrong with holding religious beliefs and any given political affiliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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