New Peart Interview

[staunchally]

QUOTE (snowdogged @ Aug 13 2012, 07:41 PM)

QUOTE (presto123 @ Aug 13 2012, 06:55 PM) http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/08/13/on-intr...to-one-another/ Seems Neil's view on religion is similar to mine. I have nothing against religion per say but if you are going to label yourself a Christian you have to live by the principles of the Bible not just talk about it. Show Me Don't Tell Me I guess:)  Can't just show up for Church once a week and punch a ticket to heaven. BTW: Just my interpretation. Neil didn't come out and say this exactly. He does talk a lot about treating others well and I couldn't agree more. I know quite a few of church goers that are judgemental, back stabbing, and don't treat others all that well. That's the point I was trying to make. Couldn't agree with you or him more! I have known many people who attended church regularly and had a "better than thou" attitude but they were all just out for themselves. I am not saying that the majority of churchgoers are like this but I have met plenty like this. I know plenty of liberal atheists who are "holier than thou" because they're "Oh, so smart" Aren't all liberals?

[staunchally]

[staunchally]

QUOTE (deslock @ Aug 14 2012, 06:23 AM)

Neil was just making a generic off-the-cuff remark about the Christian Right, which has oodles of hypocrisy (if you can't even acknowledge that, then there's no point in discussing it). Neil has been at odds with them for ~35 years, so this is nothing new. And though his views on religion are more prominent on the last couple albums, they're also present in songs written in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s. Tom Sawyer is often cited, but the atheist/agnostic block on the T4E tour (Freewill, Roll the Bones, Resist) is what stands out to me.

I refuse to acknowledge it because there is no such thing as the Christian Right. Who is its leader?

[snowdogged]

[staunchally]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 14 2012, 07:11 PM)

QUOTE (staunchally @ Aug 14 2012, 08:10 PM) QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Aug 13 2012, 08:41 PM) QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 13 2012, 07:48 PM) A realization I had lately: it is impossible to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ and be a Republican. Go Neil! Yeah! f**k christian republicans! Liars! Excuse me?!!! theredtamasrules is being sarcastic. Oh, okay. It's kinda funny .

[staunchally]

[snowdogged]

I have never and will never vote for the republican party.

[rushgoober]

Boy this thread turned to shit in a hurry!

[They Bow Defeated]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 07:41 PM)

Boy this thread turned to shit in a hurry!

Yeah, this thread makes me so happy that I don't belong to Sense O'Clock News.

 

http://i46.tinypic.com/2wpum1h.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

[snowdogged]

[They Bow Defeated]

QUOTE (staunchally @ Aug 14 2012, 07:14 PM)

I know plenty of liberal atheists who are "holier than thou" because they're "Oh, so smart" Aren't all liberals?

I guess we know who your Staunch Ally is:

 

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Latino-Mormons-Romney-BT.jpg

[staunchally]

[staunchally]

QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 14 2012, 07:48 PM)

QUOTE (staunchally @ Aug 14 2012, 07:14 PM) I know plenty of liberal atheists who are "holier than thou" because they're "Oh, so smart" Aren't all liberals? I guess we know who your Staunch Ally is:   http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Latino-Mormons-Romney-BT.jpg Actually, he's not!

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 14 2012, 05:44 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 07:41 PM) Boy this thread turned to shit in a hurry! Yeah, this thread makes me so happy that I don't belong to Sense O'Clock News.   http://i46.tinypic.com/2wpum1h.jpg Me too. WAY too much hassle!

[snowdogged]

[LedRush]

[LedRush]

One problem with what Neil said is the same thing that bothers me about hyperbolic statements made by atheists against the religious, by the religious against the non-believers, by liberals against the conservative and the conservative against the liberals - by speaking in absolutes and by attacking a generalization, you ensure that your comments will be both wrong and inflammatory. Neil's issue is compounded this time by the fact that he goes out of his way to insult both republicans and many followers of JC by boiling their views to monolithic caricatures which do nothing to acknowledge the nuance and complexity of the real situation.

 

I understand that there may be a valid point down there somewhere, but it was expressed in a way that ensures its inaccuracy will insult large swathes of people.

Edited August 15, 2012 by LedRush

[GeminiRising79]

What most of you fail to realize is that Neil is the biggest troll of all.

[rushfanforever!]

Most "every-Sunday" Christians that I know attend the round church if you know what I mean......

 

[LedRush]

QUOTE (GeminiRising79 @ Aug 14 2012, 09:12 PM)

What most of you fail to realize is that Neil is the biggest troll of all.

I won't go that far. I will just say that I think he made a hyperbolic statement that we might agree went to far. At least, I choose to believe this.

[An Enemy Without]

QUOTE (They Bow Defeated @ Aug 14 2012, 07:44 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 07:41 PM) Boy this thread turned to shit in a hurry! Yeah, this thread makes me so happy that I don't belong to Sense O'Clock News.   http://i46.tinypic.com/2wpum1h.jpg No, it's much more civilized in there. We don't have all these amateurs muddying everything up...

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 14 2012, 06:34 PM)

One problem with what Neil said is the same thing that bothers me about hyperbolic statements made by atheists against the religious, by the religious against the non-believers, by liberals against the conservative and the conservative against the liberals - by speaking in absolutes and by attacking a generalization, you ensure that your comments will be both wrong and inflammatory. Neil's issue is compounded this time by the fact that he goes out of his way to insult both republicans and many followers of JC by boiling their views to monolithic caricatures which do nothing to acknowledge the nuance and complexity of the real situation. I understand that there may be a valid point down there somewhere, but it was expressed in a way that ensures its inaccuracy will insult large swathes of people.

[eshine]

The fact is, there is much injustice perpetuated by Republicans and so called "Christians". I mean "so called" Christians because Neil is right - there are far too many people who claim to live by the words of Jesus Christ but who's actions are the complete opposite of anything the man stood for.

 

If you are a decent person of Christian faith then these comments don't apply and you should't be offended by them.

 

But please do not pretend that a large number of Christians (who happen to be Republicans) are not vocally oppressive to people who do not follow their "faith" to the note.

 

I am a gay man and have lived it first hand my entire life.

 

I applaud Neil Peart for having the balls to state these inconvenient truths.

Edited August 15, 2012 by eshine

[eshine]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Aug 14 2012, 10:09 PM)

QUOTE (LedRush @ Aug 14 2012, 06:34 PM) One problem with what Neil said is the same thing that bothers me about hyperbolic statements made by atheists against the religious, by the religious against the non-believers, by liberals against the conservative and the conservative against the liberals - by speaking in absolutes and by attacking a generalization, you ensure that your comments will be both wrong and inflammatory.  Neil's issue is compounded this time by the fact that he goes out of his way to insult both republicans and many followers of JC by boiling their views to monolithic caricatures which do nothing to acknowledge the nuance and complexity of the real situation. I understand that there may be a valid  point down there somewhere, but it was expressed in a way that ensures its inaccuracy will insult large swathes of people. I totally disagree.   I think he makes his point quite clearly.   My Mom is a Christian woman. She is kind, very giving and does not pass judgement on other people. She follows the word of Jesus while being adaptive, inclusive and kind.   When I hear Neil talk, I do not even think about my Mother because she does not scream in the face of anyone who doesn't share her religion.   He isn't talking about her.   And he isn't talking about most of us here - so I don't know why you guys are so offended by his views.

[LedRush]

QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 14 2012, 10:14 PM)

The fact is, there is much injustice perpetuated by Republicans and so called "Christians". I mean "so called" Christians because Neil is right - there are far too many people who claim to live by the words of Jesus Christ but who's actions are the complete opposite of anything the man stood for. If you are a decent person of Christian faith then these comments don't apply and you should't be offended by them. But please do not pretend that a large number of Christians (who happen to be Republicans) are not lodly and vocally oppressive to people who do not follow their "faith" to the note. I am a gay man and have lived it first hand my entire life. I applaud Neil Peart for having the balls to state these inconvenient truths.

I hope you'll apologize for my pointed questions, but you've mentioned that you were gay as part of your defense of Neil's statements. If I try and assume the best of all Neil's statements, and conclude that his statements were a criticism of the republican establishment, I can see your point.

 

But I feel Neil did more than that. He made assumptions about what it means to be a follower of Jesus. He made assumptions about what it means to be a republican. And he did it in a way sure to inflame those about whom he spoke.

 

Do Christians believe in gay marriage? What was Jesus' view on this? I could reread the Bible a few times a try and ascertain Jesus' views on this, but ultimately, there is no scholarly or religious consensus. I could see what certain republicans say about the issue, but the republican party does have many who agree with 80% of the platform, but don't want to be defined by the 20% which they are trying to change. My town just elected an openly gay mayor. Does the fact that he's gay or the fact that he's republican make his views incompatible with Jesus'? Or, as the Catholic church here has concluded, is there no incompatibility at all? And that is a potential disagreement within just one of the many denominations of Christianity.

 

I'm not religious, and I don't believe in God. I'm not a republican and I don't subscribe to the beliefs of the other Rush. But I can recognize that there is a lot of room to interpret both the teachings' of Jesus and what it is to be a republican that Neil's generalized indictment of both could be insulting to either.