Is Neil commenting on the Occupier movement

[Analog_Bro]

QUOTE (CantStopThinkingBig @ Jun 22 2012, 10:44 PM)

QUOTE (beherit @ Jun 22 2012, 09:45 PM) But yeah, seriously, never let your own political views get in the way of music, or anything really. If you look at a chair or a turkey sandwich and think IS THIS LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, you probably have a problem... And to the people saying I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE RIGHT-WING NUTJOBS HERE: What did you expect on a forum for a band that's mostly enjoyed by people older than 30? On a forum with lots of 50 year-olds, of course you're gonna get a lot of people who are against gay marriage, think the Bible is 100% literal fact, etc. That's their opinion, oh well. good point... with age comes wisdom Then your post prior to this one must be the exception

[Weakly Criminal]

[HowItIs]

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jun 23 2012, 03:17 AM)

Now, I'm not getting an real indication that this is a DYStopia, this steampunk world. The Watchmaker rules but nothing says that he does so as a tyrannical dictator or the like. In fact, Neil mentioned that the Watchmaker IS the Pedlar and he asks "What do you lack?" to get a read on how his people are doing. This isn't a world like that of the Priests in 2112, at least I don't see that anywhere in the lyrics or the introduction prose.

I agree. We could say that the Clockwork Angels world is neither utopia nor dystopia. We could also say that for some, it is a cage.

 

A cage full of comfy chairs is still a cage. The vast majority of the populace is content to go out their day, all under the "loving" guidance and planning of the Watchmaker. Except for a few pockets of disorder and danger (like in the Wreckers), the world is peaceful and monotonous. Neil's protaganist is tired of being a penned-in sheep, so he goes off to find freedom and true happiness.

 

He wants to experience the unknown, the unpredictable, the good AND the bad, and perhaps even the dangerous.......for it's far, far better than the neatly planned and unremarkable lives that most lead.

 

http://inebriatedpress.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/090516-think-for-yourself-far-side.jpg

[deslock]

[Running Rebel]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Jun 23 2012, 05:21 AM)

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jun 23 2012, 03:17 AM) Now, I'm not getting an real indication that this is a DYStopia, this steampunk world. The Watchmaker rules but nothing says that he does so as a tyrannical dictator or the like. In fact, Neil mentioned that the Watchmaker IS the Pedlar and he asks "What do you lack?" to get a read on how his people are doing. This isn't a world like that of the Priests in 2112, at least I don't see that anywhere in the lyrics or the introduction prose. I agree. We could say that the Clockwork Angels world is neither utopia nor dystopia. We could also say that for some, it is a cage.   A cage full of comfy chairs is still a cage. The vast majority of the populace is content to go out their day, all under the "loving" guidance and planning of the Watchmaker. Except for a few pockets of disorder and danger (like in the Wreckers), the world is peaceful and monotonous. Neil's protaganist is tired of being a penned-in sheep, so he goes off to find freedom and true happiness.   He wants to experience the unknown, the unpredictable, the good AND the bad, and perhaps even the dangerous.......for it's far, far better than the neatly planned and unremarkable lives that most lead.   http://inebriatedpress.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/090516-think-for-yourself-far-side.jpg I want to comment on this very interesting discussion when I have time but meanwhile I have to say that comic is the most fantastic thing I've ever seen. BRILLIANT. I can't stop laughing.   C'mon sheep! Start thinking BIG!

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (beherit @ Jun 22 2012, 10:45 PM)

But yeah, seriously, never let your own political views get in the way of music, or anything really. If you look at a chair or a turkey sandwich and think IS THIS LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, you probably have a problem... And to the people saying I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE RIGHT-WING NUTJOBS HERE: What did you expect on a forum for a band that's mostly enjoyed by people older than 30? On a forum with lots of 50 year-olds, of course you're gonna get a lot of people who are against gay marriage, think the Bible is 100% literal fact, etc. That's their opinion, oh well.

Foolish stereotype. If anything, I have become a lot more liberal the older I have gotten. I'm older than 30 but not 50 and I have come to see that the politicians are about 90% the same when it comes to actual execution of policy rather than the promises they make. I don't look for real life parallels with my music either.

[laughedatbytime]

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Jun 22 2012, 07:48 PM)

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 07:03 PM) QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Jun 22 2012, 05:58 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 06:06 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jun 22 2012, 01:36 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 10:03 AM) QUOTE (briremo @ Jun 22 2012, 09:01 AM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 09:40 AM) http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html   IS that Dan Marino??? Awesome! The one and only!   Go Phins! No matter what the subject it always comes down to Dan Marino for LABT...   He's the Rush of QBs! 0 rings. More like the Nickleback of QB's. Rings are an important part of greatness but not the only component, or else you have to think that Trent Dilfer is better than Marino. Please don't tell me you believe that, or we'll have to refer to you as the Nickelback of posters. No, but guys like Brady and Aikman are/were. Brady especially hasn't always had the weapons behind him, but could find ways to win the big games. Aikman was a fine QB, but there's no way he was as good as Marino. The talent surrounding him in his glory years was close to, if not as good as anything that's ever been assembled in the post merger era...there will be at least 5, if not more, HOFers other than Aikman. Marino never had that type of offensive talent around him, no running game, especially, and for most of his career he had one of the worst defenses in the league. How can you win consistently when you have to score 5 TDs, with no running game, to win?   Brady, you can make the case for (although I personally dislike the guy, he's been exceptional, and had one of the greatest seasons ever, but I suppose it sucked because he didn't get the ring that year ), but for Aikman there is no real case for him being greater than Marino.

[TheBluePhoenix]

[laughedatbytime]

[beherit]

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Jun 23 2012, 07:38 AM)

QUOTE (beherit @ Jun 22 2012, 10:45 PM) But yeah, seriously, never let your own political views get in the way of music, or anything really. If you look at a chair or a turkey sandwich and think IS THIS LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, you probably have a problem... And to the people saying I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE RIGHT-WING NUTJOBS HERE: What did you expect on a forum for a band that's mostly enjoyed by people older than 30? On a forum with lots of 50 year-olds, of course you're gonna get a lot of people who are against gay marriage, think the Bible is 100% literal fact, etc. That's their opinion, oh well. Foolish stereotype. If anything, I have become a lot more liberal the older I have gotten. I'm older than 30 but not 50 and I have come to see that the politicians are about 90% the same when it comes to actual execution of policy rather than the promises they make. I don't look for real life parallels with my music either. Older people are typically conservative though, at least in my area (Georgia)   Sorry to offend

[beherit]

[circumstantial tree]

You won't see real "change" while there's a Democrat or Republican in office. Third party system is necessary for any real change.

 

Why change when you can remain comfortable with what you think you know?

[beherit]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Jun 23 2012, 09:50 AM)

You won't see real "change" while there's a Democrat or Republican in office. Third party system is necessary for any real change. Why change when you can remain comfortable with what you think you know?

Agreed.

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 23 2012, 08:19 AM)

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Jun 22 2012, 07:48 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 07:03 PM) QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Jun 22 2012, 05:58 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 06:06 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jun 22 2012, 01:36 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 10:03 AM) QUOTE (briremo @ Jun 22 2012, 09:01 AM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 09:40 AM) http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html   IS that Dan Marino??? Awesome! The one and only!   Go Phins! No matter what the subject it always comes down to Dan Marino for LABT...   He's the Rush of QBs! 0 rings. More like the Nickleback of QB's. Rings are an important part of greatness but not the only component, or else you have to think that Trent Dilfer is better than Marino. Please don't tell me you believe that, or we'll have to refer to you as the Nickelback of posters. No, but guys like Brady and Aikman are/were. Brady especially hasn't always had the weapons behind him, but could find ways to win the big games. Aikman was a fine QB, but there's no way he was as good as Marino. The talent surrounding him in his glory years was close to, if not as good as anything that's ever been assembled in the post merger era...there will be at least 5, if not more, HOFers other than Aikman. Marino never had that type of offensive talent around him, no running game, especially, and for most of his career he had one of the worst defenses in the league. How can you win consistently when you have to score 5 TDs, with no running game, to win?   Brady, you can make the case for (although I personally dislike the guy, he's been exceptional, and had one of the greatest seasons ever, but I suppose it sucked because he didn't get the ring that year ), but for Aikman there is no real case for him being greater than Marino. Myth: Dan Marino had no defense.   Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the league's No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). That's a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marino's playing days.   Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense.   In Marino's record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the league's No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game.   There's no doubt Marino played with some poor defenses in his day, but that's the price of playing in the league 17 years. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts show that he also played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls.   Myth: Marino had no running game.   Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino joined Miami at a time when it had a reputation of being the best ground team in football. In fact, the year before Marino was drafted, the Dolphins made it all the way to the Super Bowl on the strength of a great running game and great defense.   In Marino's rookie year, 1983, the Dolphins racked up 2,150 yards on the ground. In 1984, Marino set single-season records with 48 touchdowns and 5,084 yards passing. The Dolphins still managed 1,918 rushing yards and averaged 4.0 yards per carry.   It would be disingenuous to say that the Dolphins were a great running team later in Marino's career. Of course, much of that can be attributed to too few rushing attempts and a misguided faith placed in Marino's arm.   But consider this: The New England Patriots went 17-2 and won the Super Bowl last year while averaging a woeful 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. The Dolphins averaged more than 3.4 yards per rushing attempt 14 times in Marino's 17 seasons. In other words, Marino's Dolphins ran the ball more than well enough to win Super Bowls.   Myth: Marino had to carry the Dolphins himself.   Cold, Hard Football Facts: Few quarterbacks in NFL history have been surrounded by more talent than Marino.   In his 17-year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl. Marino himself was named a Pro Bowler nine times. That's a remarkable 64 Pro Bowl players, or nearly four for every season Marino spent in the NFL. Four times in Marino's career, the Dolphins boasted five or more Pro Bowl players in a single season. Compare that with New England's two Super Bowl teams, which had a total of just five Pro Bowl players.   Marino also had the rare luxury of joining a team that had played in the Super Bowl the year before he arrived. He also played most of his career for the winningest coach in NFL history, Don Shula.   Shula has quite a resume. Working with quarterbacks Bob Griese, Earl Morrall and Johnny Unitas, he led the Colts and Dolphins to five Super Bowls in 15 years. Over the next 13 seasons, working with Marino, he appeared in just one more Super Bowl. He lost.   If any quarterback in NFL history walked into an ideal situation in which to win a Super Bowl, it was Dan Marino.

[laughedatbytime]

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Jun 23 2012, 09:16 AM)

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 23 2012, 08:19 AM) QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Jun 22 2012, 07:48 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 07:03 PM) QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Jun 22 2012, 05:58 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 06:06 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jun 22 2012, 01:36 PM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 10:03 AM) QUOTE (briremo @ Jun 22 2012, 09:01 AM) QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 22 2012, 09:40 AM) http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html   IS that Dan Marino??? Awesome! The one and only!   Go Phins! No matter what the subject it always comes down to Dan Marino for LABT...   He's the Rush of QBs! 0 rings. More like the Nickleback of QB's. Rings are an important part of greatness but not the only component, or else you have to think that Trent Dilfer is better than Marino. Please don't tell me you believe that, or we'll have to refer to you as the Nickelback of posters. No, but guys like Brady and Aikman are/were. Brady especially hasn't always had the weapons behind him, but could find ways to win the big games. Aikman was a fine QB, but there's no way he was as good as Marino. The talent surrounding him in his glory years was close to, if not as good as anything that's ever been assembled in the post merger era...there will be at least 5, if not more, HOFers other than Aikman. Marino never had that type of offensive talent around him, no running game, especially, and for most of his career he had one of the worst defenses in the league. How can you win consistently when you have to score 5 TDs, with no running game, to win?   Brady, you can make the case for (although I personally dislike the guy, he's been exceptional, and had one of the greatest seasons ever, but I suppose it sucked because he didn't get the ring that year ), but for Aikman there is no real case for him being greater than Marino. Myth: Dan Marino had no defense.   Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino played 17 seasons in the NFL. Twice, he had the luxury of playing with the league's No. 1 scoring defense: his rookie year of 1983 (15.6 points per game), and again in 1998 (16.6 points per game). That's a pretty enviable ratio in a league that had 28 and then 30 teams in Marino's playing days.   Consider this: Terry Bradshaw played 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and won four Super Bowls. The famed Steel Curtain defense that he played with led the league in scoring just twice in those 14 years. Of Bradshaw's four title teams, only one boasted the league's best scoring defense.   In Marino's record-setting 1984 season, the Dolphins had the No. 1 scoring offense in football and the No. 6 scoring defense (18.6 points per game). The 1990 Dolphins, meanwhile, boasted the league's No. 4 scoring defense, surrendering just 15.1 points per game.   There's no doubt Marino played with some poor defenses in his day, but that's the price of playing in the league 17 years. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts show that he also played with several defenses more than strong enough to win Super Bowls.   Myth: Marino had no running game.   Cold, Hard Football Facts: Marino joined Miami at a time when it had a reputation of being the best ground team in football. In fact, the year before Marino was drafted, the Dolphins made it all the way to the Super Bowl on the strength of a great running game and great defense.   In Marino's rookie year, 1983, the Dolphins racked up 2,150 yards on the ground. In 1984, Marino set single-season records with 48 touchdowns and 5,084 yards passing. The Dolphins still managed 1,918 rushing yards and averaged 4.0 yards per carry.   It would be disingenuous to say that the Dolphins were a great running team later in Marino's career. Of course, much of that can be attributed to too few rushing attempts and a misguided faith placed in Marino's arm.   But consider this: The New England Patriots went 17-2 and won the Super Bowl last year while averaging a woeful 3.4 yards per rushing attempt. The Dolphins averaged more than 3.4 yards per rushing attempt 14 times in Marino's 17 seasons. In other words, Marino's Dolphins ran the ball more than well enough to win Super Bowls.   Myth: Marino had to carry the Dolphins himself.   Cold, Hard Football Facts: Few quarterbacks in NFL history have been surrounded by more talent than Marino.   In his 17-year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl. Marino himself was named a Pro Bowler nine times. That's a remarkable 64 Pro Bowl players, or nearly four for every season Marino spent in the NFL. Four times in Marino's career, the Dolphins boasted five or more Pro Bowl players in a single season. Compare that with New England's two Super Bowl teams, which had a total of just five Pro Bowl players.   Marino also had the rare luxury of joining a team that had played in the Super Bowl the year before he arrived. He also played most of his career for the winningest coach in NFL history, Don Shula.   Shula has quite a resume. Working with quarterbacks Bob Griese, Earl Morrall and Johnny Unitas, he led the Colts and Dolphins to five Super Bowls in 15 years. Over the next 13 seasons, working with Marino, he appeared in just one more Super Bowl. He lost.   If any quarterback in NFL history walked into an ideal situation in which to win a Super Bowl, it was Dan Marino. OK, this cannot go without a response.   Whoever wrote this must not have seen the Dolphins during Marino's tenure.   Let's look at things year by year:   1983: Marino's rookie year, one of the greatest rookie years in history. Despite not starting in the first six games, he threw 20 TDs and 6 ints. While they did have the #1 scoring defense in the league, it was in no way a dominant defense...and no one on that defense has, to the best of my knowledge ever received a single vote for the Hall of Fame. Who was dominant on that team. Then they get to the playoffs and give up 27 pts to that offensive juggernaut known as the Seattle Seahawks.   But yeah, he should have been able to win a Super Bowl.   1984: Probably, in context the greatest QB season in history. 5084 yds 48 TDs (a record that stood for 26 yrs, but hey, passing records last decades all the time these days). But, no doubt that was due to the vaunted running game led by first ballot HOFer Woody Bennett with just over 600 yds.   And a defense that gave up 157 pts in the last 6 games (26 ppg) of the regular season, and 28 pts to the Mark Malone led Steelers in the AFC Championship game deserves much of the credit for getting to the Super Bowl. This defense was aging before the very eyes of those watching it.   And in the Super Bowl they faced the 1984 Niners. At 15-1, with perhaps the greatest QB in history and several future HOFers, this should have been a walkover, right? Good thing the defense held them to only 38 pts. Marino's fault for sure.   If you can find the live video, you should watch the Dolphin offense in that AFC Championship game. If you do, you'll understand why 4 ypc in that offense should NOT be considered good offensive football. The threat of the deep pass meant that, most of the time, the defense was giving them 5-7 yds every time they'd run the ball just to avoid (unsuccessfully as it turned out) getting torched. If you compare the way the 1984 Fins stretched the defense to what the 2011 Patriots did on offense, 3.4 ypc is more impressive than 4.0 ypc, in context...the Patriots rarely threw the deep ball.   This is getting kind of long, and I'm running out of time (for now), but more later, there's a lot more to address...I'm only two years into Marino's career and still haven't addressed most of the points here. Plus I have to find the list of 55 Pro Bowl teammates for Marino and the leading rushers in his time in Miami to show how unimpressive these things really are.

[laughedatbytime]

Dolphin Pro Bowl selections during Marino's career. Do you REALLY wan to compare this list (Dwight Stephenson being the only one with HOF credentials, maybe Kuech in his final year in his late 30s) with the supporting cast of Bradshaw or Aikman?

 

1983 Dt Bob Baumhower, De Doug Betters, WR Mark Duper, G Bob Kuechenberg2, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), G Ed Newman, C Dwight Stephenson

1984 DT Bob Baumhower (dnp), WR Mark Clayton, LB A.J. Duhe, Wr Mark Duper, Qb Dan Marino, G Ed Newman, P Reggie Roby, C Dwight Stephenson

1985 WR Mark Clayton, G Roy Foster, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), C Dwight Stephenson

1986 WR Mark Clayton3, WR Mark Duper (dnp), G Roy Foster, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), Lb John Offerdahl, C Dwight Stephenson (dnp)

1987 QB Dan Marino (dnp), LB John Offerdahl, C Dwight Stephenson (dnp)

1988 WR Mark Clayton, Lb John Offerdahl (dnp), NT Brian Sochia4

1989 TE Ferrell Edmunds, Lb John Offerdahl, P Reggie Roby

1990 DE Jeff Cross, TE Ferrell Edmunds, Lb John Offerdahl, T Richmond Webb

1991 Wr Mark Clayton, QB Dan Marino (dnp), T Richmond Webb

1992 Lb Bryan Cox, Te Keith Jackson (dnp), Qb Dan Marino, T Richmond Webb

1993 FB Keith Byars, WR Irving Fryar5, TE Keith Jackson (dnp), G Keith Sims, T Richmond Webb

1994 LB Bryan Cox, WR Irving Fryar, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), G Keith Sims, T Richmond Webb

1995 LB Bryan Cox, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), G Keith Sims, T Richmond Webb

1996 T Richmond Webb

1997 No Selections

1998 Dt Tim Bowens (dnp)

[Merely Space]

Hey, Mods!

 

I know threads get moved to SOCN all the time for drifting into political territory. Can a thread be forcibly moved to One Little Victory for an egregious drift into sports?

 

 

 

I kid, i kid.

[Running Rebel]

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 23 2012, 11:58 AM)

Dolphin Pro Bowl selections during Marino's career. Do you REALLY wan to compare this list (Dwight Stephenson being the only one with HOF credentials, maybe Kuech in his final year in his late 30s) with the supporting cast of Bradshaw or Aikman? 1983 Dt Bob Baumhower, De Doug Betters, WR Mark Duper, G Bob Kuechenberg2, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), G Ed Newman, C Dwight Stephenson 1984 DT Bob Baumhower (dnp), WR Mark Clayton, LB A.J. Duhe, Wr Mark Duper, Qb Dan Marino, G Ed Newman, P Reggie Roby, C Dwight Stephenson 1985 WR Mark Clayton, G Roy Foster, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), C Dwight Stephenson 1986 WR Mark Clayton3, WR Mark Duper (dnp), G Roy Foster, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), Lb John Offerdahl, C Dwight Stephenson (dnp) 1987 QB Dan Marino (dnp), LB John Offerdahl, C Dwight Stephenson (dnp) 1988 WR Mark Clayton, Lb John Offerdahl (dnp), NT Brian Sochia4 1989 TE Ferrell Edmunds, Lb John Offerdahl, P Reggie Roby 1990 DE Jeff Cross, TE Ferrell Edmunds, Lb John Offerdahl, T Richmond Webb 1991 Wr Mark Clayton, QB Dan Marino (dnp), T Richmond Webb 1992 Lb Bryan Cox, Te Keith Jackson (dnp), Qb Dan Marino, T Richmond Webb 1993 FB Keith Byars, WR Irving Fryar5, TE Keith Jackson (dnp), G Keith Sims, T Richmond Webb 1994 LB Bryan Cox, WR Irving Fryar, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), G Keith Sims, T Richmond Webb 1995 LB Bryan Cox, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), G Keith Sims, T Richmond Webb 1996 T Richmond Webb 1997 No Selections 1998 Dt Tim Bowens (dnp)

Reggie Roby was a stud...

[laughedatbytime]

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Jun 23 2012, 11:50 AM)

QUOTE (laughedatbytime @ Jun 23 2012, 11:58 AM) Dolphin Pro Bowl selections during Marino's career.  Do you REALLY wan to compare this list (Dwight Stephenson being the only one with HOF credentials, maybe Kuech in his final year in his late 30s) with the supporting cast of Bradshaw or Aikman? 1983 Dt Bob Baumhower, De Doug Betters, WR Mark Duper, G Bob Kuechenberg2, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), G Ed Newman, C Dwight Stephenson 1984 DT Bob Baumhower (dnp), WR Mark Clayton, LB A.J. Duhe, Wr Mark Duper, Qb Dan Marino, G Ed Newman, P Reggie Roby, C Dwight Stephenson 1985 WR Mark Clayton, G Roy Foster, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), C Dwight Stephenson 1986 WR Mark Clayton3, WR Mark Duper (dnp), G Roy Foster, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), Lb John Offerdahl, C Dwight Stephenson (dnp) 1987 QB Dan Marino (dnp), LB John Offerdahl, C Dwight Stephenson (dnp) 1988 WR Mark Clayton, Lb John Offerdahl (dnp), NT Brian Sochia4 1989 TE Ferrell Edmunds, Lb John Offerdahl, P Reggie Roby 1990 DE Jeff Cross, TE Ferrell Edmunds, Lb John Offerdahl, T Richmond Webb 1991 Wr Mark Clayton, QB Dan Marino (dnp), T Richmond Webb 1992 Lb Bryan Cox, Te Keith Jackson (dnp), Qb Dan Marino, T Richmond Webb 1993 FB Keith Byars, WR Irving Fryar5, TE Keith Jackson (dnp), G Keith Sims, T Richmond Webb 1994 LB Bryan Cox, WR Irving Fryar, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), G Keith Sims, T Richmond Webb 1995 LB Bryan Cox, Qb Dan Marino (dnp), G Keith Sims, T Richmond Webb 1996 T Richmond Webb 1997 No Selections 1998 Dt Tim Bowens (dnp) Reggie Roby was a stud... Agreed. And the best player to wear a watch on the field, let's not forget.   Dolphin rushing leaders between 1983 and 1999:   1983: Audra Franklin 1984: the aforementioned Woody Bennett 1985: Tony Nathan 1986: Lorenzo Hampton 1987: Troy Stradford 1988: Lorenzo Hampton 1989-90: Sammie "Fumbles" Smith 1991-3: Mark "Boson" Higgs 1994-5: Bernie "ex FedEx" Parmalee 1996-8: Karim "Sky Hook" Abdul-Jabbar 1999: JJ "Who?" Johnson   Yep, a powerful running attack, indeed.

[ThinkingBig]

[Running Rebel]

I have trained sales forces for years and ironically it's Trent Dilfer who I refer to the most as a model. His best attribute was that he didn't "lose the game" and knew who he was and his abilities.

 

Sort of like I imagine Owen Hardy realizes as well.

 

 

(How's that for tying them together!)

 

 

[Running Rebel]

[ThinkingBig]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Jun 23 2012, 09:50 AM)

You won't see real "change" while there's a Democrat or Republican in office. Third party system is necessary for any real change. Why change when you can remain comfortable with what you think you know?

Well said.

 

Too many Americans are programmed to be loyal to only one brand.

 

And when that brand goes bad or lets them down, the brand just rebrands and calls themselves Tea Party or Blue Dogs.

 

Throughout U.S. history, the brands (parties) have switched political polarity. Republicans used to be more progressive party that wanted the federal government to have the ultimate power over the states, while the Southern Dems used to back segregation and wanted their states to be free from having to obey the liberal SCOTUS.

 

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...