Clockwork Angels: The Concept and The Plot

[The Owl]

I just finished my second listen of Clockwork Angels this time following along with the 2112-esk in between songs plot points, and the lyrics... and I must say that I love the concept...

 

 

It was very Forrest Gump-esk in a way, or at least the way I saw it... The protagonist reflecting on various life experiences he had had (albiet in a very different setting), as opposed to a front to back story...

 

While musically not my favorite, "Wish them Well" is an amazing song lyrically, and very accessible outside the confines of the album's story.. You can hold grudges, people can dick you over, hurt you...etc, that there's no point on lingering on and dwelling on those people.. in other words "all you can do is wish them well" or as I like to put it "f**k 'Em"...lol

 

I do have a couple of questions about the plot (weird speaking of that in regards to a Rush album)...

 

- What was the Anarchist's beef with the rest of the city, and what was the "Clockwork Detonator" , and why when he tossed it to the protagonist did the whole community turn against him forcing him to flee... (was it Weapon? a Bomb?)

 

- The relationship with the woman he (and lost) described in "Halo Effect" was that before or after he left the city? And why did she shun him? (Being caught with the Clockwork Detonator? )

 

- Why did Neil keep the protagonist alive this time around....LOL

 

 

 

 

 

Great Album, Great concept... I am really looking forward to the novelization

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 12 2012, 10:17 PM)

I just finished my second listen of Clockwork Angels this time following along with the 2112-esk in between songs plot points, and the lyrics... and I must say that I love the concept... It was very Forrest Gump-esk in a way, or at least the way I saw it... The protagonist reflecting on various life experiences he had had (albiet in a very different setting), as opposed to a front to back story... While musically not my favorite, "Wish them Well" is an amazing song lyrically, and very accessible outside the confines of the album's story.. You can hold grudges, people can dick you over, hurt you...etc, that there's no point on lingering on and dwelling on those people.. in other words "all you can do is wish them well" or as I like to put it "f**k 'Em"...lol I do have a couple of questions about the plot (weird speaking of that in regards to a Rush album)... - What was the Anarchist's beef with the rest of the city, and what was the "Clockwork Detonator" , and why when he tossed it to the protagonist did the whole community turn against him forcing him to flee... (was it Weapon? a Bomb?) - The relationship with the woman he (and lost) described in "Halo Effect" was that before or after he left the city? And why did she shun him? (Being caught with the Clockwork Detonator? ) - Why did Neil keep the protagonist alive this time around....LOL Great Album, Great concept... I am really looking forward to the novelization

I said Forest Hump as well and they ate my head off! I see it the analogy very clearly!

 

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 12 2012, 10:17 PM)

I do have a couple of questions about the plot (weird speaking of that in regards to a Rush album)... - What was the Anarchist's beef with the rest of the city, and what was the "Clockwork Detonator" , and why when he tossed it to the protagonist did the whole community turn against him forcing him to flee... (was it Weapon? a Bomb?) - The relationship with the woman he (and lost) described in "Halo Effect" was that before or after he left the city? And why did she shun him? (Being caught with the Clockwork Detonator? )

The Anarchist's "beef with the city" comes from his personality, I think. He's a disaffected loner. The telling line, I think, is when he says "I lack their smiles and their diamonds; I lack their happiness and love. I envy them for all those things I never got my fair share of." He's a tortured soul who is envious of their lives, and he's looking to take revenge and act out. (Read the lyrics from "The Anarchist" as being from the anarchist's POV, not the hero's POV.)

 

The "clockwork detonator" is a bomb, I think. The anarchist tosses it to the hero so as not to get caught with it, and then everyone suspects the hero. Problem is, THEN WHAT? We go from there directly to his fling with the acrobat in "Halo Effect"; it's never explained what happened to him after being "falsely accused" of bomb possession.

 

His relationship with the woman in "Halo Effect" comes after joining the Traveling Carnival from "Carnies." She's described as an acrobat. There's reference to an earlier woman in his life - the one he "left behind" when he began this adventure - but the song is about the acrobat, not the earlier woman. I think what we're supposed to take away from this failed relationship with the acrobat is the idea that he fooled himself into thinking she was "the one," his soulmate, although she wasn't. He often deludes himself like this. "Such illusions have colored my whole life." (As an exercise: compare and contrast "Halo Effect" with "Panacea" from "The Fountain of Lamneth." The woman in "Panacea" was a distraction from the hero's quest, but the failed relationship with the acrobat in "Halo Effect" actually helped the hero learn something about himself.)

Edited June 13, 2012 by GeddyRulz

[cygnify]

we're probably missing alot of the back story - the song lyrics are sort of like the highlight film.

 

Maybe the girl from Halo Effect could have helped him out of the bomb mess, but didn't?

 

The concept that I am most curious about is: what exactly is the role of the Clockwork Angels??? The Watchmaker rules through the "Regulators". Are the Clockwork Angels his agents? I get the impression they represent the Watchmaker's power. But what exactly what did they do to merit the album title? The protagonist doesn't dig the watchmaker so much. I guess he still chooses to live, in spite of all the negative crap, he was brought up to believe. Why "Clockwork Angels" for the album title???

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (cygnify @ Jun 12 2012, 10:56 PM)

we're probably missing alot of the back story - the song lyrics are sort of like the highlight film.

I agree. I think the songs are mere sketches of the complete story; each opens a window on a little episode in the hero's adventure... but we can't really connect the story in too linear a way yet, or see the full picture.

 

And I also agree with your thing about the clockwork angels. Who are they; where do they really fit? The album/story is NAMED for them, so they must be important... but I'm not getting it yet. I need the novel.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dylan2712]

before the lyrics there's the passage that says "The heaven-reaching towers of the cathedral of the time keepers... The radiant glory of the Angels- land, sea, sky and light."

 

The way i interpret the Clockwork Angels is that they are mechanical monuments that "spread their arms and sing" my guess at the chime of the clock towers in the middle of the Chronos Square. They're probably some kind of tribute to this Watchmaker guy. They probably serve a greater purpose in the context of the novel -which i can't wait for!

[Alexmai]

What about new girl/old girl being Olivia/Selena or Carrie/Jaqueline?

[Steel Rat]

Very clearly a Forrest Gump style delivery.

[Earthshine]

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 12 2012, 11:18 PM)

I need the novel.

Sorry again,but WHAT NOVEL?!

[Earthshine]

QUOTE (Alexmai @ Jun 13 2012, 02:25 AM)

What about new girl/old girl being Olivia/Selena or Carrie/Jaqueline?

I thought about that. Not so much with Selena and Olivia, but with Jaqueline and Carrie? Or more likely, the one he describes as "that woman" whom he had a brief relationship with before he met Carrie.

[Earthshine]

QUOTE (cygnify @ Jun 12 2012, 10:56 PM)

The concept that I am most curious about is: what exactly is the role of the Clockwork Angels??? The Watchmaker rules through the "Regulators". Are the Clockwork Angels his agents? I get the impression they represent the Watchmaker's power. But what exactly what did they do to merit the album title? The protagonist doesn't dig the watchmaker so much.

My take as of now is that The Watchmaker is God or a "higher power" and the Clockwork Angels are perhaps organized religions. He believes in neither of them fully, and resolves that if one naturally does what is right and good, he will be fine in the end naturally.

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Jun 13 2012, 04:55 AM)

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 12 2012, 11:18 PM) I need the novel. Sorry again, but WHAT NOVEL?! You must've missed this bit of news over the past couple months...   Neil's friend, Sci-Fi author Kevin J. Anderson, has written a novel about all this, with Neil's input. However, it won't be out until September - about the time the tour starts.

[Alexmai]

The pedlar asking "who you lack?"... is Neil's inner sentiment toward his XX century? He's free from the ghost rider's memories?

[The Owl]

Yeah, I had the same question about the "Clockwork Angels" as well as the watchmaker.... they both had little to do with the story other than being things in which the protagonist has contempt for..... they seemed to have little importance as the album goes but maybe the novel will flesh that out moreso

[cygnify]

Reflecting more on the significance of the "Clockwork Angels"; there are some possible clues:

 

In Carnies:

"Under the gaze of the angels / A spectacle like he's never seen"

 

And perhaps most significantly:

"Sometimes the angels punish us / By answering our prayers"

 

* He never finds the Seven Cities of Gold.

 

from "BU2B2"

"No philosophy consoles me

In a clockwork universe"

 

From "Wish Them Well"

"Spirits turned bitter by the poison of envy

Always angry and dissatisfied

Even the lost ones, the frightened and mean ones

Even the ones with a devil inside"

 

(a reference to The Anarchist and The Wreckers)

 

From "The Garden"

"The Watchmaker keeps to his schemes

The hours tick away - they tick away"

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Still not many definitive references to the Angels - surely the Novel will fill in this story. But I'm curious what we can make out of the puzzle with what's currently available.

 

Still stuck on that line about the Angels punishing us by answering our prayers. My initial reaction is sort of like - be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. He dreamed of riding the Caravan "thinking big, etc." The anarchist, and perhaps realizing the illusion of his goddess with wings on her heals, forced him into a sort of exile across the sea. The angels answered his prayers for adventure. Only it was not what he imagined. He looked for the seven cities, but did not find them and almost died. Then was victimized by the Wreckers and was the sole survivor. He still sees his life as an adventure and regardless of dark days and light, he would do it again. He still exists in the "Clockwork universe" even if he doesn't buy the philosophy. He's got his own moral compass to steer by and is able to let go of the ill will he feels for those that did him wrong and measure his life in appropriate ways - love and respect from others and for himself.

 

thoughts?

 

[Earthshine]

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 13 2012, 05:45 AM)

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Jun 13 2012, 04:55 AM) QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 12 2012, 11:18 PM) I need the novel. Sorry again, but WHAT NOVEL?! You must've missed this bit of news over the past couple months...   Neil's friend, Sci-Fi author Kevin J. Anderson, has written a novel about all this, with Neil's input. However, it won't be out until September - about the time the tour starts. Thanks!

[The Owl]

I wonder if there will be an audiobook as well, and who would be the narrator?

[They Bow Defeated]

QUOTE (Earthshine @ Jun 13 2012, 04:56 AM)

QUOTE (Alexmai @ Jun 13 2012, 02:25 AM) What about new girl/old girl being Olivia/Selena or Carrie/Jaqueline? I thought about that. Not so much with Selena and Olivia, but with Jaqueline and Carrie? Or more likely, the one he describes as "that woman" whom he had a brief relationship with before he met Carrie. I'm sure that Neil will love to see the fan specluation around this.   Actually, the Halo Effect lyrics did strike me as surprisingly personal, though I would guess they're just fictional.

[Running Rebel]

QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 13 2012, 09:01 PM)

I wonder if there will be an audiobook as well, and who would be the narrator?

Yes and it's Neil.

[The Owl]

QUOTE (Running Rebel @ Jun 13 2012, 09:27 PM)

QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 13 2012, 09:01 PM) I wonder if there will be an audiobook as well, and who would be the narrator? Yes and it's Neil. For real?, I've heard nothing about an audiobook..

[The Owl]

QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 13 2012, 09:31 PM)

QUOTE (Running Rebel @ Jun 13 2012, 09:27 PM) QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 13 2012, 09:01 PM) I wonder if there will be an audiobook as well, and who would be the narrator? Yes and it's Neil. For real?, I've heard nothing about an audiobook.. Okay, I just now read this over at RIAB... THis is fantastic!!!

[mstmompj]

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 12 2012, 10:39 PM)

QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 12 2012, 10:17 PM) I do have a couple of questions about the plot (weird speaking of that in regards to a Rush album)... - What was the Anarchist's beef with the rest of the city, and what was the "Clockwork Detonator" , and why when he tossed it to the protagonist did the whole community turn against him forcing him to flee... (was it Weapon? a Bomb?) - The relationship with the woman he (and lost) described in "Halo Effect" was that before or after he left the city? And why did she shun him? (Being caught with the Clockwork Detonator? ) The Anarchist's "beef with the city" comes from his personality, I think. He's a disaffected loner. The telling line, I think, is when he says "I lack their smiles and their diamonds; I lack their happiness and love. I envy them for all those things I never got my fair share of." He's a tortured soul who is envious of their lives, and he's looking to take revenge and act out. (Read the lyrics from "The Anarchist" as being from the anarchist's POV, not the hero's POV.) The episode with the Anarchist intrigues me quite a bit. It is the one section of the album where we hear from a voice/perspective other than that of the protagonist (the Watchmaker's brief stanza in "Clockwork Angels" doesn't really count; it's more of a quote). This is surely significant.   It seems to me that the Anarchist ends up being the counterpoint to the hero--he's someone who, like our hero, has had negative experiences with TPTB and with other people but who has let it fill him with hate and rage to the point that he acts violently to try to harm innocent people and to frame the protagonist for the crime. The protagonist avoids the dark path the Anarchist has taken and has instead chosen to respond to the considerable vicissitudes of his life with the philosophies expressed in "Wish Them Well" and "The Garden."   My 19-year-old son (we were discussing the plot together earlier this evening) suggested the possibility that "Wish Them Well" might even be a response to a later-in-life encounter that the hero has with the Anarchist, against whom the protagonist might reasonably want to seek revenge. (Not that the song is addressed to the Anarchist, though; it seems to be addressed to someone close to the protagonist whom the protagonist is advising, maybe a child or apprentice of some kind).   It's also interesting that the darker "BU2B2" comes after "HF." In "BU2B2" the protagonist seems much more negative than in "HF," like perhaps he's suffered some sort of new reversal of fortune, and says "no philosophy consoles [him]." By "WTW" and "The Garden," though, he does seem basically consoled by his philosophy, or at least reconciled in some way: "the Watchmaker keeps to his schemes" (hasn't been defeated/overthrown by the hero in any kind of public, epic battle) but the protagonist seems comfortable nurturing and protecting his garden nonetheless (a personal, psychic victory). Or the publication of the novel may prove this all to be BS/fanwank.   The whole thing is a real contrast to 2112 in which the idealistic young hero romantically (and uselessly) kills himself because he can't "carry on." The harder thing is to "still choose to live" through the challenges of life and ultimately reach the peace of the Garden (a sort of an anti-Eden?). Return of the Elder Race not required. Or maybe one becomes the elder race, so to speak, with "the fullness of time."   </English prof Rush-fan geek out>

[DistantEarlyRushFan]

QUOTE (mstmompj @ Jun 13 2012, 10:13 PM)

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 12 2012, 10:39 PM) QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 12 2012, 10:17 PM) I do have a couple of questions about the plot (weird speaking of that in regards to a Rush album)... - What was the Anarchist's beef with the rest of the city, and what was the "Clockwork Detonator" , and why when he tossed it to the protagonist did the whole community turn against him forcing him to flee... (was it Weapon? a Bomb?) - The relationship with the woman he (and lost) described in "Halo Effect" was that before or after he left the city? And why did she shun him? (Being caught with the Clockwork Detonator? ) The Anarchist's "beef with the city" comes from his personality, I think. He's a disaffected loner. The telling line, I think, is when he says "I lack their smiles and their diamonds; I lack their happiness and love. I envy them for all those things I never got my fair share of." He's a tortured soul who is envious of their lives, and he's looking to take revenge and act out. (Read the lyrics from "The Anarchist" as being from the anarchist's POV, not the hero's POV.) The episode with the Anarchist intrigues me quite a bit. It is the one section of the album where we hear from a voice/perspective other than that of the protagonist (the Watchmaker's brief stanza in "Clockwork Angels" doesn't really count; it's more of a quote). This is surely significant.   It seems to me that the Anarchist ends up being the counterpoint to the hero--he's someone who, like our hero, has had negative experiences with TPTB and with other people but who has let it fill him with hate and rage to the point that he acts violently to try to harm innocent people and to frame the protagonist for the crime. The protagonist avoids the dark path the Anarchist has taken and has instead chosen to respond to the considerable vicissitudes of his life with the philosophies expressed in "Wish Them Well" and "The Garden."   My 19-year-old son (we were discussing the plot together earlier this evening) suggested the possibility that "Wish Them Well" might even be a response to a later-in-life encounter that the hero has with the Anarchist, against whom the protagonist might reasonably want to seek revenge. (Not that the song is addressed to the Anarchist, though; it seems to be addressed to someone close to the protagonist whom the protagonist is advising, maybe a child or apprentice of some kind).   It's also interesting that the darker "BU2B2" comes after "HF." In "BU2B2" the protagonist seems much more negative than in "HF," like perhaps he's suffered some sort of new reversal of fortune, and says "no philosophy consoles [him]." By "WTW" and "The Garden," though, he does seem basically consoled by his philosophy, or at least reconciled in some way: "the Watchmaker keeps to his schemes" (hasn't been defeated/overthrown by the hero in any kind of public, epic battle) but the protagonist seems comfortable nurturing and protecting his garden nonetheless (a personal, psychic victory). Or the publication of the novel may prove this all to be BS/fanwank.   The whole thing is a real contrast to 2112 in which the idealistic young hero romantically (and uselessly) kills himself because he can't "carry on." The harder thing is to "still choose to live" through the challenges of life and ultimately reach the peace of the Garden (a sort of an anti-Eden?). Return of the Elder Race not required. Or maybe one becomes the elder race, so to speak, with "the fullness of time."   </English prof Rush-fan geek out> Damn good posting.   This concept album is amazing...thanks for shedding some light on this...I have been having some contradictory thoughts in my head about what the Anarchist's motives are

[circumstantial tree]

I'm just listening to the music without paying attention to the story. I read through it but it's not necessary to know what's going on.

 

I wonder if Neil ever watched the movie "Big Fish". There's a scene in the movie when the main character played by Ewen MacGregor is at a carnival and then all of a sudden sees a girl he's interested in.

[The Owl]

QUOTE (mstmompj @ Jun 13 2012, 10:13 PM)

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Jun 12 2012, 10:39 PM) QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 12 2012, 10:17 PM) I do have a couple of questions about the plot (weird speaking of that in regards to a Rush album)... - What was the Anarchist's beef with the rest of the city, and what was the "Clockwork Detonator" , and why when he tossed it to the protagonist did the whole community turn against him forcing him to flee... (was it Weapon? a Bomb?) - The relationship with the woman he (and lost) described in "Halo Effect" was that before or after he left the city? And why did she shun him? (Being caught with the Clockwork Detonator? ) The Anarchist's "beef with the city" comes from his personality, I think. He's a disaffected loner. The telling line, I think, is when he says "I lack their smiles and their diamonds; I lack their happiness and love. I envy them for all those things I never got my fair share of." He's a tortured soul who is envious of their lives, and he's looking to take revenge and act out. (Read the lyrics from "The Anarchist" as being from the anarchist's POV, not the hero's POV.) The episode with the Anarchist intrigues me quite a bit. It is the one section of the album where we hear from a voice/perspective other than that of the protagonist (the Watchmaker's brief stanza in "Clockwork Angels" doesn't really count; it's more of a quote). This is surely significant.   It seems to me that the Anarchist ends up being the counterpoint to the hero--he's someone who, like our hero, has had negative experiences with TPTB and with other people but who has let it fill him with hate and rage to the point that he acts violently to try to harm innocent people and to frame the protagonist for the crime. The protagonist avoids the dark path the Anarchist has taken and has instead chosen to respond to the considerable vicissitudes of his life with the philosophies expressed in "Wish Them Well" and "The Garden."   My 19-year-old son (we were discussing the plot together earlier this evening) suggested the possibility that "Wish Them Well" might even be a response to a later-in-life encounter that the hero has with the Anarchist, against whom the protagonist might reasonably want to seek revenge. (Not that the song is addressed to the Anarchist, though; it seems to be addressed to someone close to the protagonist whom the protagonist is advising, maybe a child or apprentice of some kind).   It's also interesting that the darker "BU2B2" comes after "HF." In "BU2B2" the protagonist seems much more negative than in "HF," like perhaps he's suffered some sort of new reversal of fortune, and says "no philosophy consoles [him]." By "WTW" and "The Garden," though, he does seem basically consoled by his philosophy, or at least reconciled in some way: "the Watchmaker keeps to his schemes" (hasn't been defeated/overthrown by the hero in any kind of public, epic battle) but the protagonist seems comfortable nurturing and protecting his garden nonetheless (a personal, psychic victory). Or the publication of the novel may prove this all to be BS/fanwank.   The whole thing is a real contrast to 2112 in which the idealistic young hero romantically (and uselessly) kills himself because he can't "carry on." The harder thing is to "still choose to live" through the challenges of life and ultimately reach the peace of the Garden (a sort of an anti-Eden?). Return of the Elder Race not required. Or maybe one becomes the elder race, so to speak, with "the fullness of time."   </English prof Rush-fan geek out> I really enjoyed that interpretation, I didnt think of the anarchist in that light. The anarchist is essentially the opposite side of the same coin the protagonist is...similar life experiences but ultimatly 2 different "fates". I also loved the contrast you pointed out between the protagonist in this album vs the protagonist in 2112... who both find themselves in roughly the same mental state/ depression/ dislike as you stated at the powers that be.....and thier very different ends to their stories