wilb1972 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 QUOTE Not unless there are some sheltered Rush "fans" sitting around that thought the band stopped working together after Moving Pictures, and that this was a big 'comeback'. You would be surprised how many people I run into who are shocked or surprised when I tell them I am going to see Rush in concert ("They're still together??") and buying their new album ("They still make albums??"). Of course, that's from the handful of people who even know who they are. And I am talking about adults over 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 No way CA will outsell Wasting Light. I think in the 225 K range by the end of the year (domestically!!) can be expected for Rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost In Xanadu Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 QUOTE (wilb1972 @ Apr 25 2012, 03:55 PM) QUOTE Not unless there are some sheltered Rush "fans" sitting around that thought the band stopped working together after Moving Pictures, and that this was a big 'comeback'. You would be surprised how many people I run into who are shocked or surprised when I tell them I am going to see Rush in concert ("They're still together??") and buying their new album ("They still make albums??"). Of course, that's from the handful of people who even know who they are. And I am talking about adults over 30. I know - I am tired of that shit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I get that at work too from the guy who sits behind me (just turned 44): "Oh they're still around? Wow!" You don't even have to like Rush to know they're still out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Apr 25 2012, 02:44 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Apr 25 2012, 01:00 PM) I'm really curious what Roadrunner expects CA to sell considering we've heard about a "massive" promotion campaign getting underway as the album gets closer. First off, is that true about Roadrunner doing a massive promotion campaign? I mean, has it been documented that they claim to be doing/planning that? No offense if this is a well established fact, it's just not something I was paying attention to. Secondly, and more importantly, maybe Roadrunner isn't thinking in terms of album sales, which they know won't be that high regardless, but is thinking of promoting them heavily to increase visibility, and ultimately ticket sales? Does Roadrunner get a piece of ticket sale dollars? I don't know, that's why I said "we've heard...". Several "insiders" have made that claim. But even Rush themselves said that the move was because they didn't feel Atlantic was doing enough to promote them so I'm sure there's been a different emphasis with RR, otherwise why move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeaveMyThingAlone Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Rush and Roadrunner have been smart in maximizing profits for this album though. First, they released Bu2B and Caravan, which I'm sure sold 200K plus as a single and digital downloads, and now they've released Headlong Flight which will probably sell about the same....THEN the album comes out in June and most of us will just go out and buy the entire physical album, meaning we have paid for 3 of the songs twice. I am sure many fans will buy all the OTHER songs individually off iTunes, but most of the hardcores will but the whole album So in essence Rush and RR is gouging us in a very smart way....they know their market and know that Clockwork Angels will sell 200-250K to the hardcores alone...we don't care that we've already bought 3 of the songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Apr 25 2012, 02:59 PM) I get that at work too from the guy who sits behind me (just turned 44): "Oh they're still around? Wow!" You don't even have to like Rush to know they're still out there. Exactly, that's what I was saying earlier. And in many cases those are people who used to follow the band to some degree and have some of their records. Those people didn't "choose not to buy VT or S&A" for example because they didn't like the music, they simply don't know those records (or probably any of the previous 20 years' worth) even exist. Hell, I'd bet 1-2 million of the 4+ million that bought Moving Pictures haven't bought a single Rush album since. It was just the "in" thing to do like buying 1984 or Pyromania or Back in Black. You don't get those kinds of sales just from serious fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Apr 25 2012, 02:10 PM) Rush and Roadrunner have been smart in maximizing profits for this album though. First, they released Bu2B and Caravan, which I'm sure sold 200K plus as a single and digital downloads, and now they've released Headlong Flight which will probably sell about the same....THEN the album comes out in June and most of us will just go out and buy the entire physical album, meaning we have paid for 3 of the songs twice. I am sure many fans will buy all the OTHER songs individually off iTunes, but most of the hardcores will but the whole album So in essence Rush and RR is gouging us in a very smart way....they know their market and know that Clockwork Angels will sell 200-250K to the hardcores alone...we don't care that we've already bought 3 of the songs Speak for yourself! I haven't paid for any of the individual songs and I have no plans to pay for the same song twice - waiting for the entire album - besides, I don't like mp3's anyway... Edited April 25, 2012 by rushgoober Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Apr 25 2012, 02:54 PM) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Apr 25 2012, 03:51 PM)QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Apr 25 2012, 02:25 PM) I doubt S&A sold much over 200,00 copies if that. More than likely RR is budgeting the marketing for CA with a reasonable sales number. Rush is by far their biggest investment minus Nickelback. So it makes sense for them to heavily promote CA. No, it's closer to 400,000-450,000 now. Source? Well, there is no hard source for a lot of this stuff but just piecing together things I've read on RIAB with the fact that it sold 93,000 the first week according to Billboard, there's basically half of your 200,000 claim right there. And hey, I know that sales drop off dramatically after the first week especially for bands like Rush but there's no way in hell it sold as many copies the first week as it has in the 260 weeks combined since then. Plus there are quotes like this around in various places and even this article is apparently fairly old: Their 2007 album Snakes & Arrows reflects both traits, and it is no fluke that it went on to sell an estimated 611,000 copies worldwide, establishing the band as one of Canada's leading exports. http://skyarts.sky.com/rush-snakes-arrows-live-in-rotterdam I think it's safe to say that 2/3 of those were in the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielmclark Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (snowdog2112 @ Apr 25 2012, 02:51 PM) Most young people don't listen to any rock at all these days and tons of older fans have just moved on with their lives. This. A thousand times, this. I'm sick to death of people blaming illegal downloads and file sharing for the lack of rock records being sold. Yeah, Van Halen only sold 300,000ish so far, but it's got nothing to do with downloads and everything to do with the fact that NOBODY CARES ABOUT NEW VAN HALEN. Well, not nobody exactly. Only about 300,000ish people. Did anyone buy the Scorpions last album? I didn't. I'll bet 99% of the people in this forum didn't, either. Why? Is it because all the members here downloaded it illegally? No, it's because nobody gives a rat's ass about the Scorpions anymore (okay, plus that album got terrible reviews). People are still buying albums by the tens of millions every single year, and that's not counting the digital purchases on a song-by-song basis. Look at the numbers for any major pop act - they're doing the numbers that Poison, Def Leppard and Bon Jovi used to do. The numbers that Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden used to do. Rock is largely dead, yeah. With a few exceptions like Nickelback (who write songs that are way closer to pop than rock, with explains a lot), nobody is interested like they used to be. But don't worry. In 20 years, it'll all come back around. [edited to add:] Don't discount Spotify users. For every Spotify user, those are sales lost. Maybe I used to buy a dozen albums a year, maybe two dozen. With Spotify (or with any similar service), I don't have to buy any. How many customers do they have? A million? Them plus their competitors? They're taking a massive chunk out of general album sales, I'd wager. Edited April 25, 2012 by danielmclark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeaveMyThingAlone Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yes, I think the digital downloading world will help Rush in this case, because of the money they've made off of releasing the first 3 singles...the actual full album will probably be comparable to Snakes and Arrows, but Snakes and Arrows had no digital singles available for download before the album came out, so that's why I think Clockwork will be more profitable then S&A even though it may not be reflected in album sales And RushGoober, I would definitely say you're the exception, considering Headlong Flight is currently the #3 Rock Single on iTunes. Again, brilliant approach by RR to take advantage of the hardcore loyalty of the Rush fans (and I'm not blaming them, I'd probably do it too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Edited April 25, 2012 by snowdog2112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Apr 25 2012, 02:33 PM) And RushGoober, I would definitely say you're the exception, considering Headlong Flight is currently the #3 Rock Single on iTunes. No offense, but what does that even mean? The song came out yesterday. It's not like that will translate into a Billboard top ten hit or anything - I'd be shocked if they ever got another song that went about #75 on the main Hot 100 chart. Sure, they make a dent when they release a new song and album. Hell, the album might even debut at #2, then sink to #15, then to #83 and after 5 or 6 weeks be off the chart forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Apr 25 2012, 03:44 PM) Does Roadrunner get a piece of ticket sale dollars? No . They take Everything else I know people that were with RR and my band Almost was with them. You have no idea how much of the song royalties and merch money they take. Now, Rush is not a new band and i would think the Morons they have working for them would not take a deal like this . RR is always going to take a cut of the bands merch because nobody[rock bands] really sells albums like they used to anymore and that is how bands make money, Merch. RR will be happy when the total cost of the recording/album promotion etc is payed for. The merch is RR's gravy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianice Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 QUOTE (metaldad @ Apr 25 2012, 04:50 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Apr 25 2012, 03:44 PM) Does Roadrunner get a piece of ticket sale dollars? No . They take Everything else I know people that were with RR and my band Almost was with them. You have no idea how much of the song royalties and merch money they take. Now, Rush is not a new band and i would think the Morons they have working for them would not take a deal like this . RR is always going to take a cut of the bands merch because nobody[rock bands] really sells albums like they used to anymore and that is how bands make money, Merch. RR will be happy when the total cost of the recording/album promotion etc is payed for. The merch is RR's gravy And your band is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianice Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaked Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 People need to realize that RUSH does not have a typical record "Deal" with RoadRunner. This is a relationship of mutual convenience. RUSH gets their worldwide distribution deal and RoadRunner gets a prime "prog" band to help elevate their stature. Their deal with RoadRunner is most likely fairly typical in regards to royalty on sales but thats where it stops. RUSH doesnt allow anybody to touch their merch or tour income. As a matter of fact they have a very well established network of companies (that they own) which take care of all touring and merchandise business. All RoadRunner is for RUSH is a worldwide distribution network.. and for RoadRunner they score a major act that is still more than viable. It's a win/win all the way around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaldad Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog2112 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 QUOTE (rushgoober @ Apr 25 2012, 03:39 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Apr 25 2012, 02:33 PM) And RushGoober, I would definitely say you're the exception, considering Headlong Flight is currently the #3 Rock Single on iTunes. No offense, but what does that even mean? The song came out yesterday. It's not like that will translate into a Billboard top ten hit or anything - I'd be shocked if they ever got another song that went about #75 on the main Hot 100 chart. Sure, they make a dent when they release a new song and album. Hell, the album might even debut at #2, then sink to #15, then to #83 and after 5 or 6 weeks be off the chart forever. Agreed, but again that just confirms my point about where rock is in general. HF was at #3 on the rock chart and #98 overall. That's fricking crazy. Even the most popular rock songs are completely obscure in the larger sense these days. Someone on the VH forum I go to looked up (going from memory) the top 100 songs for that particular week a while back and all of 2 were even remotely rock. This just proves that was no fluke. So the only people that even follow rock or are even aware of these older bands putting out songs and albums are the few hardcores and their kids . We may as well be listening to 1930s big band music in the 1980s. In fact, that's a great parallel. Saying a great rock album released today would sell big would be like saying in 1985 "If Glenn Miller came back to life and released a record like he did in 1939 it would be huge!" I don't care how good a swing record put out in 1985 would be nobody would care, regardless of the fact that it used to be the most popular kind of music. It's that far out of whack these days with traditional rock. The whole idea that Rush isn't multiplatinum these days because the records aren't as good is just fantasy. That just doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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