StellarJetman Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) Because so many people here don't seem to get it, this is what's so awful about the album that it warrants a complete remix from the ground up. Here are the volume levels for the right stereo channel in "Limelight". Notice how there's plenty of room for the sound, how the space lets it take shape in a pleasing way. Now, have a look at the levels for "Earthshine". Everything is pushed to the absolute maximum volume, squashing and distorting everything into a noisy mess. This has nothing to do with Vapor Trails having a "raw" type of "style". Take "Stick It Out", for comparison. Is it loud? Yes. Is it raw? Yes. The difference is that Peter Collins knew what he was doing and didn't artificially pump the volume up and ruin the sound - those volume levels are high, yes, but there's still room for the sound to sound good. Vapor Trails, on the other hand, is "brickwalled" to the point that it's practically unlistenable for a lot of people. This doesn't make it sound good. This takes what could have been a great, hard-edged rock album and leaves it ragged and scrappy-sounding. Interestingly, Vapor Trails is this way entirely by accident. I say "interestingly" because this was actually a (terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad) trend at the time (cf. Polara's Jetpack Blues, released in the same year, which contains this miracle of audio engineering), believe it or not. Thankfully, this kind of production has long hence fallen out of favor. Edited September 10, 2011 by StellarJetman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbirdsong Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'm listening to Power Windows right now and as loud an album as it is there is still a lot of space in the mix. Vapor Trails does indeed need the remix and apparently it is going to happen. I can't wait to see the threads that show up here when that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liddybuck01 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I see nothing wrong with VT. I love how it sounds. I'm interested to hear the new mix but its not necessary to me. VT is my 2nd favorite album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senor_velasco Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 so there is no digital distortion on the master tracks then? i remember hearing about that. the retrospective remixes sound better but by far perfect. you have to always keep in mind that the best mix in the world can be butchered by a bad mastering job which is - according to my knowledge - where the main problem was in the first place. but i'd appreciate any further insight on what exactly happened with vt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarJetman Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (senor_velasco @ Sep 9 2011, 02:10 PM) so there is no digital distortion on the master tracks then? i remember hearing about that. the retrospective remixes sound better but by far perfect. you have to always keep in mind that the best mix in the world can be butchered by a bad mastering job which is - according to my knowledge - where the main problem was in the first place. but i'd appreciate any further insight on what exactly happened with vt. The master recordings are fine; the mixing and final mastering killed it because Geddy ended up having to do the whole thing himself, despite his inexperience. Here's what Alex said: QUOTE (Alex Lifeson @ May 7 2002)The poor guy was doing this on his own. It really shook him up... He said, "I don't know what to think. I think it's awful." Edited September 10, 2011 by StellarJetman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babycat Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I've never heard anything wrong with VT - to me, it does sound loud and raw, but I can't hear any distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3strukt Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Babycat @ Sep 9 2011, 03:37 PM) I've never heard anything wrong with VT - to me, it does sound loud and raw, but I can't hear any distortion. If you turn it up REAL loud it sounds like shit. There's the distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babycat Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (D3strukt @ Sep 9 2011, 09:49 PM) QUOTE (Babycat @ Sep 9 2011, 03:37 PM) I've never heard anything wrong with VT - to me, it does sound loud and raw, but I can't hear any distortion. If you turn it up REAL loud it sounds like shit. There's the distortion. Oh, I see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
presto123 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 How did it make it out of the studio even? The #1 priority should be checking the graphs to make sure nothing is clipping. And it is so easy to do. I can do it on my audio editor on my computer. Why would anybody release anything that is clipping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unattractive Truth Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Babycat @ Sep 9 2011, 01:54 PM) QUOTE (D3strukt @ Sep 9 2011, 09:49 PM) QUOTE (Babycat @ Sep 9 2011, 03:37 PM) I've never heard anything wrong with VT - to me, it does sound loud and raw, but I can't hear any distortion. If you turn it up REAL loud it sounds like shit. There's the distortion. Oh, I see... Vapor Trails is one of my favorite albums. The songs on there are great. But I think if you listen closely you can hear the sounds blurring together in a kind of noise fog sometimes. It's too compressed, with little distinction between notes. It's not very crisp. I read once that Alex said "It came out too hot." I think that's exactly correct. I look forward to hearing what they can do with it. Some of those tunes are out of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
presto123 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (Unattractive Truth @ Sep 9 2011, 05:08 PM) QUOTE (Babycat @ Sep 9 2011, 01:54 PM) QUOTE (D3strukt @ Sep 9 2011, 09:49 PM) QUOTE (Babycat @ Sep 9 2011, 03:37 PM) I've never heard anything wrong with VT - to me, it does sound loud and raw, but I can't hear any distortion. If you turn it up REAL loud it sounds like shit. There's the distortion. Oh, I see... Vapor Trails is one of my favorite albums. The songs on there are great. But I think if you listen closely you can hear the sounds blurring together in a kind of noise fog sometimes. It's too compressed, with little distinction between notes. It's not very crisp. I read once that Alex said "It came out too hot." I think that's exactly correct. I look forward to hearing what they can do with it. Some of those tunes are out of this world. Doesn't too hot refer to the clipping issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invisible To Telescopic Eye Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 QUOTE (StellarJetman @ Sep 9 2011, 03:36 PM) Because so many people here don't seem to get it, this is what's so awful about the album that it warrants a complete remix from the ground up. Here are the volume levels for the right stereo channel in "Limelight". Notice how there's plenty of room for the sound, how the space lets it take shape in a pleasing way. Now, have a look at the levels for "Earthshine". Everything is pushed to the absolute maximum volume, squashing and distorting everything into a noisy mess. This has nothing to do with Vapor Trails having a "raw" type of "style". Take "Stick It Out", for comparison. Is it loud? Yes. Is it raw? Yes. The difference is that Peter Collins knew what he was doing and didn't artificially pump the volume up and ruin the sound - those volume levels are high, yes, but there's still room for the sound to sound good. Vapor Trails, on the other hand, is "brickwalled" to the point that it's practically unlistenable for a lot of people. This doesn't make it sound good. This takes what could have been a great, hard-edged rock album and leaves it ragged and scrappy-sounding. Interestingly, Vapor Trails is this way entirely by accident. I say "interestingly", because this was actually a (terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad) trend at the time (cf. Polara's Jetpack Blues, released in the same year, which contains this gem of audio engineering), believe it or not. Thankfully, this kind of production has long hence fallen out of favor. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
presto123 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) Edited September 9, 2011 by presto123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Ways Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I'm surprised people either can;t hear this or are disputing it. There is a difference between liking the album (I think the songs are mostly good to very good) and realizing that it sounds like shit. Don't confuse heavy with noisy. As far as the issue being in the mix or the recording I am not sure. I hope it is in the mix and that going back to the originals and redoing it will fix it. The two songs I already heard sounded much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarJetman Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) Edited September 10, 2011 by StellarJetman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USB Connector Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I like Vapor Trails, yes the mixing was bad, but the album is still pretty good overall. I'm hoping the remaster will do something about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdFireYYZ Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 QUOTE (USB Connector @ Sep 9 2011, 08:46 PM) I like Vapor Trails, yes the mixing was bad, but the album is still pretty good overall. I'm hoping the remaster will do something about this. Exactly how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babycat Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowItIs Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 QUOTE (StellarJetman @ Sep 9 2011, 12:36 PM) Because so many people here don't seem to get it, this is what's so awful about the album that it warrants a complete remix from the ground up. Here are the volume levels for the right stereo channel in "Limelight". Notice how there's plenty of room for the sound, how the space lets it take shape in a pleasing way. Now, have a look at the levels for "Earthshine". Everything is pushed to the absolute maximum volume, squashing and distorting everything into a noisy mess. This has nothing to do with Vapor Trails having a "raw" type of "style". Take "Stick It Out", for comparison. Is it loud? Yes. Is it raw? Yes. The difference is that Peter Collins knew what he was doing and didn't artificially pump the volume up and ruin the sound - those volume levels are high, yes, but there's still room for the sound to sound good. Vapor Trails, on the other hand, is "brickwalled" to the point that it's practically unlistenable for a lot of people. This doesn't make it sound good. This takes what could have been a great, hard-edged rock album and leaves it ragged and scrappy-sounding. Interestingly, Vapor Trails is this way entirely by accident. I say "interestingly" because this was actually a (terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad) trend at the time (cf. Polara's Jetpack Blues, released in the same year, which contains this miracle of audio engineering), believe it or not. Thankfully, this kind of production has long hence fallen out of favor. Thank you for being specific about this. I can hear that VT sounds too loud and often muddled. Not as crisp and clear as other albums. Can't wait to hear the remaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patjnev Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Its not on the net anymore but Rip Rowan did a very good article about vapor trails on his website pro rec.com . too bad too because it was a great read . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liddybuck01 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 it does sound weird when it's loud. i love to blare Earthshine in the car, and after it gets to a certain volume, the car rattles. not too terrible for me, tho lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnotes Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
presto123 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMWriter Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 That remaster. It would make all the difference. Well - at least such is the hope. I've been putting off getting the CD because I've heard the quality in demos and it's terrible. I even really like the 2004 various remasters I've heard on Myspace streaming, even though most of my current Rush CDs are the '98 remasters.. I think. Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mika Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 I'd never criticized the sound quality of Vapor Trails, and was actually surprised that people generally didn't like it. I kind of thought it was a more 'raw, heavy-sounding' album, and left it at that for myself. It's interesting to see more specific basis for this, and it would be interesting to hear a different mix of it! Since my ears aren't registering 'distortion' so much, I'll continue to enjoy listening to VT, and see what the future brings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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