I'm a bit confused

[Good,bad,andrush]

As a bassist as well, I think the songs translate better to a live setting, where the bass is brought out more. I do think his best work is on PoW and HyF, as well as Hemi. I really don't mind too much synth because like I said...in a live settings the songs came out awesome. Except Red Sector A

( although I do like that song a lot)

[An Enemy Without]

[Ranger J]

Synths and production aside, the bass tone in HYF is terrible IMO.

 

I'd love to see songs like "Turn the Page", "Prime Mover" and "Lock and Key" played live with his Fender Jazz over the Stein or Wal from the 80's. I think the increased depth of the songs will turn a few 'haters' opinions.

 

 

[fledgehog]

QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jun 23 2011, 11:39 PM)

QUOTE (fledgehog @ Jun 23 2011, 02:11 PM) As a keyboard player i can't stand any pre-1977 Rush or any post-1991 Rush.  And also, as a drummer, I can't stand any acoustic song that's ever been written, the entirety of the folk genre, or most classical music.   Second sentence:   wow, seriously?

[RUSHHEAD666]

[HowItIs]

Sorry, I'm not a bass player so... what, exactly, are you referring to when you say Geddy's "flamenco" style?

 

While I don't play bass (well, not the string kind), I love to hear it. And I agree with the OP. Cummerford made several dumb (IMO) comments in BTLS. I'm not a fan. But I also didn't know that the makers of the doc leaned towards metal. Interesting to know.

 

Thought-provoking thread. Thanks.

 

 

 

BTW, I love the synth era

[Rushman14]

QUOTE (go2wrk@95974 @ Jun 23 2011, 07:08 PM)

I remember when Moving Pictures came out, I was lovin' every second of it...Every song was top-notch(like all their previous records) with the perfect amount of Bass,Guitar, drums, and synths. ..Then Signals was released, and I listened to the 1st song, and couldn't believe my ears... It was like WTF did they do to their sound??? WAY TOO much synths.... But ya know what? As time went by, the record really did grow on me , and I learned to live with the "new sound" ..and actually like it. RUSH was just movin' on, from one era to another, musicly speaking. That's why they're such an excellent band... They adapt to the times they are experiencing. I hope they never stop, and always change/adjust their sound, accordingly, when the need arises. LONG LIVE RUSH!

I had the exact same experience.

[Captain Avatar]

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jun 24 2011, 02:56 AM)

Sorry, I'm not a bass player so... what, exactly, are you referring to when you say Geddy's "flamenco" style? While I don't play bass (well, not the string kind), I love to hear it. And I agree with the OP. Cummerford made several dumb (IMO) comments in BTLS. I'm not a fan. But I also didn't know that the makers of the doc leaned towards metal. Interesting to know. Thought-provoking thread. Thanks. BTW, I love the synth era

Thanks for the complement.

 

For the record, I don't really think Commerford's statements were DUMB necessarily, just a bit confusing, given that he claimed Geddy was his favorite bassist. Why he would dismiss the synth era wholesale seemingly and primarily BECAUSE of Geddy's changing roles seemed odd, GIVEN that Geddy, from what I've always heard, took his bass playing to a new level during that time - something a bass player who supposedly loves Geddy would thoroughly enjoy, or so one would think.

 

But, hearing some of the replies here have been helpful.

 

As far as "flamenco" style, I'm referring to what I heard for the first time on Animate, and what I've continued to hear on MANY songs since, but what I don't think I EVER heard prior (at least from Geddy). Again, I'm not a bassist either, so I might be wrong, but it sounds as though he's flicking his finger back and forth really quickly on on or two strings over and over again, rather than doing busy "runs" up and down the fretboard, using all four strings and perhaps three fingers on his plucking hand.

 

Any bass players want to comment on the accuracy of my ear's interpretation?

 

Thanks.

[HowItIs]

QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jun 24 2011, 11:03 AM)

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jun 24 2011, 02:56 AM) Sorry, I'm not a bass player so... what, exactly, are you referring to when you say Geddy's "flamenco" style? While I don't play bass (well, not the string kind), I love to hear it. And I agree with the OP. Cummerford made several dumb (IMO) comments in BTLS. I'm not a fan. But I also didn't know that the makers of the doc leaned towards metal. Interesting to know. Thought-provoking thread. Thanks. BTW, I love the synth era Thanks for the complement.   For the record, I don't really think Commerford's statements were DUMB necessarily, just a bit confusing, given that he claimed Geddy was his favorite bassist. Why he would dismiss the synth era wholesale seemingly and primarily BECAUSE of Geddy's changing roles seemed odd, GIVEN that Geddy, from what I've always heard, took his bass playing to a new level during that time - something a bass player who supposedly loves Geddy would thoroughly enjoy, or so one would think.   But, hearing some of the replies here have been helpful.   As far as "flamenco" style, I'm referring to what I heard for the first time on Animate, and what I've continued to hear on MANY songs since, but what I don't think I EVER heard prior (at least from Geddy). Again, I'm not a bassist either, so I might be wrong, but it sounds as though he's flicking his finger back and forth really quickly on on or two strings over and over again, rather than doing busy "runs" up and down the fretboard, using all four strings and perhaps three fingers on his plucking hand.   Any bass players want to comment on the accuracy of my ear's interpretation?   Thanks. Yes, I see the point you are making. I just thought Cummerford came off as....um.... thick   The "flamenco" style... I follow now. It does sound great. And Geddy's bass work on those "synth period" albums is so creative and interesting, IMO. I really love Open Secrets and Presto but it's all good to me.

[trenken]

QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jun 24 2011, 01:03 PM)

QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jun 24 2011, 02:56 AM) Sorry, I'm not a bass player so... what, exactly, are you referring to when you say Geddy's "flamenco" style? While I don't play bass (well, not the string kind), I love to hear it. And I agree with the OP. Cummerford made several dumb (IMO) comments in BTLS. I'm not a fan. But I also didn't know that the makers of the doc leaned towards metal. Interesting to know. Thought-provoking thread. Thanks. BTW, I love the synth era Thanks for the complement.   For the record, I don't really think Commerford's statements were DUMB necessarily, just a bit confusing, given that he claimed Geddy was his favorite bassist. Why he would dismiss the synth era wholesale seemingly and primarily BECAUSE of Geddy's changing roles seemed odd, GIVEN that Geddy, from what I've always heard, took his bass playing to a new level during that time - something a bass player who supposedly loves Geddy would thoroughly enjoy, or so one would think.   But, hearing some of the replies here have been helpful.   As far as "flamenco" style, I'm referring to what I heard for the first time on Animate, and what I've continued to hear on MANY songs since, but what I don't think I EVER heard prior (at least from Geddy). Again, I'm not a bassist either, so I might be wrong, but it sounds as though he's flicking his finger back and forth really quickly on on or two strings over and over again, rather than doing busy "runs" up and down the fretboard, using all four strings and perhaps three fingers on his plucking hand.   Any bass players want to comment on the accuracy of my ear's interpretation?   Thanks. About what Commerford said, he's a very aggressive style player in heavy rock bands. That's what he grew to love about Geddy when he was younger. Geddy became a better technical player in the mid 80's, but it was more of a jazz style, lighter attack, busier finger work. They were a much lighter band then, even getting into soft rock a lot. Some guys, especially in harder edge bands, have no interest in that style of playing.   It's the same reason why I just cannot get into slap style playing. It's just not my thing. It's not different than what he's saying. That jazzy style of playing doesnt fit with the kind of music he likes.   As far as flamenco, he started doing that in the 90's. I remember him saying he started having a lot of tendon problems in his plucking hand, so he went to that style out of necessity because it does lighten the load on the fingers. If you're very observant you'll see in old rush video he would play with 2 finger a lot, but in the same songs years later he did them with 1 finger. He uses 2 only when he has to on busier parts.

[trenken]

Acually here's a good vid of the bass player from metallica doing flamenco on an acoustic guitar, where he's plucking the strings up and down with his fingers.

 

This guy is a GREAT bassist. His finger work is crazy fast, he's faster than Geddy ever was with his plucking. He does some crazy fast runs plucking with 3 fingers. He's up there with Myung from Dream Theater, but I think Trujillo is even more accurate than Myung.

 

[kbomb106]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 25 2011, 09:52 AM)

As far as flamenco, he started doing that in the 90's.

I would disagree with this statement, but only on a technical level. I would more accurately describe it as the flamenco style coming into common usage and prominence in the 90s. He did it, to a lesser degree, even when Rutsey was in the band. Check out this video from '74 and skip to about 3:40.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB6sRQQBH6E

It's not as well refined and he's not using it as a rhythm as he does all the time now. It turned more into a Geddy Lee staple in the 90s, though, and you can hear it in most songs these days.

For more recent examples, ones that come to mind off the top of my head are:

Earthshine (see ~1:00)

Crossroads (see ~0:10)

and the aforementioned Animate (see ~0:30).

Edited June 25, 2011 by kbomb106

[Ancient Ways]

He doesn't really say he doens't like the bass playing. His comments are focused on the fact that there are too many synths in the quote in the op. Less synths = more bass in his head.

[Captain Avatar]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 25 2011, 08:52 AM)

QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jun 24 2011, 01:03 PM) QUOTE (HowItIs @ Jun 24 2011, 02:56 AM) Sorry, I'm not a bass player so... what, exactly, are you referring to when you say Geddy's "flamenco" style? While I don't play bass (well, not the string kind), I love to hear it. And I agree with the OP. Cummerford made several dumb (IMO) comments in BTLS. I'm not a fan. But I also didn't know that the makers of the doc leaned towards metal. Interesting to know. Thought-provoking thread. Thanks. BTW, I love the synth era Thanks for the complement.   For the record, I don't really think Commerford's statements were DUMB necessarily, just a bit confusing, given that he claimed Geddy was his favorite bassist. Why he would dismiss the synth era wholesale seemingly and primarily BECAUSE of Geddy's changing roles seemed odd, GIVEN that Geddy, from what I've always heard, took his bass playing to a new level during that time - something a bass player who supposedly loves Geddy would thoroughly enjoy, or so one would think.   But, hearing some of the replies here have been helpful.   As far as "flamenco" style, I'm referring to what I heard for the first time on Animate, and what I've continued to hear on MANY songs since, but what I don't think I EVER heard prior (at least from Geddy). Again, I'm not a bassist either, so I might be wrong, but it sounds as though he's flicking his finger back and forth really quickly on on or two strings over and over again, rather than doing busy "runs" up and down the fretboard, using all four strings and perhaps three fingers on his plucking hand.   Any bass players want to comment on the accuracy of my ear's interpretation?   Thanks. About what Commerford said, he's a very aggressive style player in heavy rock bands. That's what he grew to love about Geddy when he was younger. Geddy became a better technical player in the mid 80's, but it was more of a jazz style, lighter attack, busier finger work. They were a much lighter band then, even getting into soft rock a lot. Some guys, especially in harder edge bands, have no interest in that style of playing.   It's the same reason why I just cannot get into slap style playing. It's just not my thing. It's not different than what he's saying. That jazzy style of playing doesnt fit with the kind of music he likes.   As far as flamenco, he started doing that in the 90's. I remember him saying he started having a lot of tendon problems in his plucking hand, so he went to that style out of necessity because it does lighten the load on the fingers. If you're very observant you'll see in old rush video he would play with 2 finger a lot, but in the same songs years later he did them with 1 finger. He uses 2 only when he has to on busier parts. If Geddy's playing songs with one finger now that used to require two, does that mean that he's technically much better than before? Every time I hear him in an interview (actually this applies to all three band members), he talks about how he strives to better his musicianship all the time, and that he's playing better now than he ever has. If so, you can only imagine what he's capable of playing with two fingers now. Perhaps he'll reach a new level with Clockwork Angels.   Personally speaking, to my ears they seem to be much tighter now when playing live. When I listen to old live footage, they seem to be all over the place with timing, and it sounds like they really are playing at the boundary of their abilities. Now, I see them playing songs like La Villa, and they seem to be having fun with it.   Plus, I remember reading an interview with Lifeson a long time ago, and he said that when they had finished recording La Villa, they all thought they'd never be able to play it again. "Now," he said, "I can play through it while I'm eating a bowl of cereal in the morning." I'm not quoting him exactly, but it was something like that.   I seem to have taken this thread way off topic...and I started it!

[Captain Avatar]

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Jun 25 2011, 09:21 AM)

He doesn't really say he doens't like the bass playing. His comments are focused on the fact that there are too many synths in the quote in the op. Less synths = more bass in his head.

Yes, you're right. He doesn't criticize Geddy's bass playing from the synth era. He just doesn't even mention it at all, and thus the person watching the documentary who has never listened to Rush might, therefore, get the impression that the synth era was a terrible era as far as Geddy's playing goes, which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I guess, if anything, I'm upset at the way the documentary portrayed the synth era. It's as though it has NO redeeming qualities, when I believe there are many...Geddy's bass playing being just one.

[HowItIs]

QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jun 25 2011, 08:37 AM)

I guess, if anything, I'm upset at the way the documentary portrayed the synth era. It's as though it has NO redeeming qualities, when I believe there are many...Geddy's bass playing being just one.

 

Exactly! Such curt dismissal of the entire period is problematic, IMO.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jun 22 2011, 05:51 PM)

From what I've read, Geddy's bass playing reached a new technical level on the synth albums. Bass players - even many on this forum - rave constantly about his chops on songs such as Big Money, Marathon, Prime Mover, and, especially, Turn the Page, which I have heard many say might be his all-time most difficult song. To my ears, his bass playing is as busy as ever on albums such as Power Windows and Hold Your Fire.

Same goes for Alex Lifeson. Many members here joke saying HYF is the great album for those who hate guitar. Though Alex does have a smooth, subtle tone, there's still great playing going on, especially in Force Ten where some amazing licks take place.

[Tommy Sawyer]

QUOTE (Kenneth @ Jun 27 2011, 04:24 AM)

QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jun 22 2011, 05:51 PM) From what I've read, Geddy's bass playing reached a new technical level on the synth albums.  Bass players - even many on this forum - rave constantly about his chops on songs such as Big Money, Marathon, Prime Mover, and, especially, Turn the Page, which I have heard many say might be his all-time most difficult song.  To my ears, his bass playing is as busy as ever on albums such as Power Windows and Hold Your Fire.  Same goes for Alex Lifeson. Many members here joke saying HYF is the great album for those who hate guitar. Though Alex does have a smooth, subtle tone, there's still great playing going on, especially in Force Ten where some amazing licks take place. I agree. Many would say GUP is at the heart of the synth era. However, Alex's playing on that album is amazing. He has plenty of good riffs and solos.

[Rush Cocky]

QUOTE (micgtr71 @ Jun 23 2011, 03:23 PM)

For me it was the sound. The playing was stellar but the bass sound was lifeless. Maybe also one wonders what his playing would be like if he didn't have the synths for part of the song. Big Money with bass all the way through it and not the Wal or the Steinberger....hmmm

QUOTE (tangy @ Jun 23 2011, 03:20 PM)

"I didn't like it...and I still really don't like it that much." those are pretty much my sentiments as well. rush went from being a trio to being a little too much Geddy.

 

Both of these are great posts.

[Weakly Criminal]

QUOTE (Scars @ Jun 22 2011, 08:34 PM)

Because people have their head up their arse when it comes to the synth era. Geddy's bass playing was arguably at it's peak during that time, but people are so busy moping over the fact that there's an additional instrument that they never bother to notice.

 

There is a fair amount of cranio-rectal inversion syndrome when it comes to Ged and the synth era.

 

[trenken]

There's nothing wrong with the synth era stuff. Some people love it, some hate it. Geddy's bass sound and style completely changed at that time, didn't have any balls like it used to, and was more of a jazz style of playing. Technically he did get better, but it's not for everyone, especially people that love some balls in their bass and music. So naturally people that grew up loving the edgy stuff might have some harsh things to say about it which is fine.

 

It's obviously no secret their popularity in general dropped off a cliff after MP. Before Signals they had a ton of casual fans. After that they were just left with the hardcore fans that were ready to follow them in any direction they chose. The band has always reflected what's going on around them in popular music, but there's always those guys like Commerford for example that loves harder edge music, so when they changed he lost interest. It's no big deal.

 

It was addressed in the documentary because it is the one period when a lot of people lost interest in them, and even Geddy said in it that he wasn't sure it was the best idea in the world. Cant remember how he exactly worded it, but something like they make bad decisions too sometimes.

Edited June 27, 2011 by trenken

[Captain Avatar]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 25 2011, 09:00 AM)

Acually here's a good vid of the bass player from metallica doing flamenco on an acoustic guitar, where he's plucking the strings up and down with his fingers. This guy is a GREAT bassist. His finger work is crazy fast, he's faster than Geddy ever was with his plucking. He does some crazy fast runs plucking with 3 fingers. He's up there with Myung from Dream Theater, but I think Trujillo is even more accurate than Myung. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcxRF1_4HA

Look man...I'm certainly not going to argue with you since you've probably forgotten more about bass playing than I'll ever know...

 

but...

 

It certainly looks to me like Geddy is every bit as fast as Trujillo in this video:

 

 

YouTube

 

 

Am I way off base? I'm just looking at Geddy's right hand here, and comparing it to Trujillo's right hand in the link you posted, and I can't really see any discernible difference in speed...and it seems like Geddy's using at least two fingers, and flying with both.

 

Perhaps I'm showing my ignorance here.

[Captain Avatar]

Sorry. I just tried to used the link I just posted above, and it didn't work.

 

I'll give it a second try:

 

 

Hope this works!

[New Digital Man]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 25 2011, 09:00 AM)

Acually here's a good vid of the bass player from metallica doing flamenco on an acoustic guitar, where he's plucking the strings up and down with his fingers. This guy is a GREAT bassist. His finger work is crazy fast, he's faster than Geddy ever was with his plucking. He does some crazy fast runs plucking with 3 fingers. He's up there with Myung from Dream Theater, but I think Trujillo is even more accurate than Myung. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcxRF1_4HA

You have to be joking man, this is how to play flamenco by the worlds no1;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYkz30RL_GU