How'd I miss this Rush/Van Halen connection?

[Mara]

Well, color me uninformed.

 

I just now learned that Ray Danniels/SRO managed Van Halen briefly back in the early-mid 90's. Ray's first wife was Alex Van Halen's sister, if I have this right.

 

Also, Sammy Hagar hates Ray like poison.

 

Anyone know any more of the dirt here?

[patjnev]

Alex Van Halen married Ray's sister Kelly. They had one child a son called Aric.Ray took over Van Halen after their long time manager Ed Leffler died ( I might have the last name wrong ) . Sammy tells in his new book that Ray immediately spurned some infighting in the band after he took over . I don't remember the specifics but if you try doing a search on keywords like

 

sammy hagar ray danniels

 

you can get some postings over at VHLINKS or the Van Halen News Desk. You can also try the Roth Army . There was a section of this story that Sammy told that stated a quote from Ray that threw RUSH under the bus . It was to the effect like

 

"If RUSH had a better lead singer they would of been a bigger act"

 

This is all from memory and I may have a few details wrong . I am sure of you search the net you can get the whole story it is a fascinating read and if true it kinda makes you wonder why RUSH would still use Ray as a manager.

[patjnev]

Here try this make sure you have a hour to read it

 

excerps from Hagar's unreleased book

[Mara]

^^^No kidding; I may save that for tomorrow!

 

Thanks for the links, and the correction. I kinda find it hard to believe that Ray would have said that about Geddy/Rush, but then again - Ray's the one who gave Geddy his pink slip in the band's formative days.

 

 

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (Mara @ Apr 9 2011, 11:30 PM)

^^^No kidding; I may save that for tomorrow! Thanks for the links, and the correction. I kinda find it hard to believe that Ray would have said that about Geddy/Rush, but then again - Ray's the one who gave Geddy his pink slip in the band's formative days.

Yeah, i really do believe that Daniels would probably say that. Reports are that he doesnt have a very good reputation in the industry. Wouldn't surprise me if that is part of the reason why Rush has been snubbed for the Hall.

[Xanadoood]

The talk from Hagar...

 

 

Hagar says he was appalled at the negative comments directed toward Rush

by Alex Van Halen that he attributed directly to Ray Danniels. Sammy was

even more offended at the fact that Al's brother-in-law wanted to manage

Van Halen so badly, he was willing to sell out his other band to get the

job. For over two decades, Danniels had stood behind Rush. From what

Hagar was hearing, apparently that was a thing of the past. The Red

Rocker even spoke to Ray himself about the Canadian trio and was

astounded by the answers he received.

 

"Ray even bad-mouthed Rush to me," said an incredulous Hagar. "Can you

believe it? He was saying shit like, 'If they had a good singer, they

could have made it on pop radio.' He was telling me that with the kind

of music they play, Rush would never be any more than they already have

been. I started hammering him with questions. I said, 'Ray, Rush should

have been the Canadian Led Zeppelin. Why don't they sell records? Why

did their last record only do 400,000 or 500,000 records?' He said to

me, 'If they only had a singer.' He was crazy to say that, because Geddy

Lee has one of the most unique voices in rock. Rush's big problem is

they never had any videos which is one of the major complaints I had

against Ray. I knew his dealing with MTV would bury us. I even called

over there and asked them about their relationship with him. They didn't

even know who Ray Danniels was. When I told them he was the manager of

Rush, they said, 'Well, we never had a relationship with Rush. We've only

had a couple of videos from them.' In other words, Ray had no clout with

them whatsoever."

[Xanadoood]

Hagar wasted no time in making phone calls to people around the industry

to get information on Ray Danniels. Sammy says he was totally dismayed

by the negative reaction he got from people who knew the manager. All

the individuals he polled were unanimous in their opinion that Danniels

was not a wise choice for the band.

 

"He had the worst rap for a manager I had ever heard in my entire life,"

said an astonished Hagar. "Straight up, I was told that if Van Halen

hired Ray Danniels as their new manager, the band was finished. I got

the very same answer from record company presidents, financial people and

promoters. Everyone I spoke with in a position of authority, who had

some sort of contact with him in the past, told me quote unquote, 'If you

use Ray Danniels, this band will go down to nothing. This guy is a slime

bag. He will stab you in the back, and he will rob those guys.' Every

one of the people I spoke to felt the same way about Ray. Ed and Al

still wouldn't listen to me when I reported my findings back to them."

 

[Tony R]

I read all of that over at CP forum. When you read the whole piece you realise that in Hagar's mind he's right about everything and nobody else counts. It's riddled with inconsistencies for starters: Hagar both defends Leffner as straight and honorable (VH's long time manager who died) then later concedes he made dodgy side deals and was maybe creaming off the top.

I don't doubt that Danniels would sell out his own grandmother for a deal but reading that stuff about how Hagar treated his wife financially and emotionally I would trust him even less.

 

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 10 2011, 02:28 AM)

I read all of that over at CP forum. When you read the whole piece you realise that in Hagar's mind he's right about everything and nobody else counts. It's riddled with inconsistencies for starters: Hagar both defends Leffner as straight and honorable (VH's long time manager who died) then later concedes he made dodgy side deals and was maybe creaming off the top. I don't doubt that Danniels would sell out his own grandmother for a deal but reading that stuff about how Hagar treated his wife financially and emotionally I would trust him even less.

Yeah, Hagar seems like quite the story teller at times. But something always made me think that perhaps , in this case, the truth about Daniels might be closer to fact.

[Mara]

QUOTE (Xanadoood @ Apr 10 2011, 04:51 AM)

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 10 2011, 02:28 AM) I read all of that over at CP forum. When you read the whole piece you realise that in Hagar's mind he's right about everything and nobody else counts. It's riddled with inconsistencies for starters: Hagar both defends Leffner as straight and honorable (VH's long time manager who died) then later concedes he made dodgy side deals and was maybe creaming off the top. I don't doubt that Danniels would sell out his own grandmother for a deal but reading that stuff about how Hagar treated his wife financially and emotionally I would trust him even less. Yeah, Hagar seems like quite the story teller at times. But something always made me think that perhaps , in this case, the truth about Daniels might be closer to fact. Here's my take: there's probably a grain of truth there somewhere. Just because someone has a longtime connection to Rush doesn't mean they're saints. Sammy's ego, while not even approaching the status of DLR's, is a known commodity as well.   Could Ray Danniels be a bit of a snake? Don't doubt it for a moment. I think you have to have some reptilian DNA to qualify for that sort of job. He has lots of company, I'm sure.   On the other hand. . .Rush is his bread and butter. If he said what he did about Geddy (and I'm sure he swears up and down that he never did), well, that just seems like a colossally stupid move.

[Presto-digitation]

I think a lot of it had to do with the politics of VH too. Leffler was Sammy's choice for VH when he joined and after Ed Leffler died the VH brothers chose Daniels. It was a bit of the "oh yeah??? Well....!!!" kind of thing.

 

Reading Sam's book (as biased as any autobio is prone to be, of course) this had to do as much with being at odds with Edward and Al as it did Daniels himself. That's what I get from it, although Hagar definitely makes Ray out to be a bit of a snake...but I think what Hagar's probably not fully fessing up to is the politics of it all and how personal resentments towards Ed and Al (and vice versa) affected the big picture.

 

As the old expression goes, the truth lies in between the first and fortieth drink, no doubt.

[ACL]

QUOTE (patjnev @ Apr 9 2011, 11:25 PM)

Here try this make sure you have a hour to read it excerps from Hagar's unreleased book

Took the time to read this, is this the book that was to be released 10 or 12 years ago? It would seem that Sammy has a much better relationship now with Mike ...

[reani14]

Funny. at one time van halen with sammy and rush were 2 of my fav bands. Rush was always my 1#, but i kinda lost it with van halen after they ditched sammy in 96...

[ak2112]

QUOTE (Tony R @ Apr 10 2011, 02:28 AM)

I read all of that over at CP forum. When you read the whole piece you realise that in Hagar's mind he's right about everything and nobody else counts. It's riddled with inconsistencies for starters: Hagar both defends Leffner as straight and honorable (VH's long time manager who died) then later concedes he made dodgy side deals and was maybe creaming off the top. I don't doubt that Danniels would sell out his own grandmother for a deal but reading that stuff about how Hagar treated his wife financially and emotionally I would trust him even less.

How do you figure that? When they got divorced, Sammy gave his ex about 30K a month for 5 years on top of whatever else she got. That doesnt sound stingy or slimey to me.

[softfilter]

Since Hagar has been on this promo tour for his book( Stern & Jim Rome among others) And the Ray Danniels story has resurfaced as a topic of conversation, you would think Ray would comment on it to set the record straight? I'm sure him and Geddy had a talk...

[the masked drummer]

QUOTE (Mara @ Apr 9 2011, 10:22 PM)

Well, color me uninformed. I just now learned that Ray Danniels/SRO managed Van Halen briefly back in the early-mid 90's. Ray's first wife was Alex Van Halen's sister, if I have this right. Also, Sammy Hagar hates Ray like poison. Anyone know any more of the dirt here?

My understanding of why sammy hated ray is because the vh brothers signed a tour deal where sro was paid a percentage of gross sales instead of net profit which caused vh to lose MLLIONS OF DOLLARS WHILE RAY/SRO MADE MILLIONS!!! I'd be pissed, too. Especially since eddie and Alex did the deal with ray without Sammy's consent!

[the masked drummer]

I've just gotta read that book. I can't believe alex took an equal share as eddie( and much bigger slice than mike. ) Nepotism at its finest! !!

[Blue Baby Dragon]

Sorry to get a bit off-topic, but I just thought I'd share this. When I saw this topic name I thought you were going to be referring to the snippet of Xanadu at the beginning of "Pleasure Dome" by Van Halen!

[Atomic]

QUOTE (ak2112 @ Apr 13 2011, 11:31 PM)

How do you figure that? When they got divorced, Sammy gave his ex about 30K a month for 5 years on top of whatever else she got. That doesnt sound stingy or slimey to me.

Now hang on... did Sammy 'give' her that amount or was it court ordered?

 

BIG difference. When you divorce, particularly when a kid is involved, one spouse always has to pay child support and often alimony too.

 

Don't get kindness mixed up with something court-ordered.

 

Just sayin'.

[Mara]

QUOTE (Atomic @ Apr 14 2011, 03:48 PM)

How do you figure that? When they got divorced, Sammy gave his ex about 30K a month for 5 years on top of whatever else she got. That doesnt sound stingy or slimey to me.

Now hang on... did Sammy 'give' her that amount or was it court ordered?

BIG difference. When you divorce, particularly when a kid is involved, one spouse always has to pay child support and often alimony too.

Don't get kindness mixed up with something court-ordered.

Just sayin'.

Plus it was a California divorce, so Sammy's wife automatically would have been awarded half of all assets by law. She didn't do too badly.

[the masked drummer]

QUOTE (softfilter @ Apr 14 2011, 11:07 AM)

Since Hagar has been on this promo tour for his book( Stern & Jim Rome among others)  And the Ray Danniels story has resurfaced as a topic of conversation, you would think Ray would comment on it to set the record straight? I'm sure him and Geddy had a talk...

Salesmen have to say whatever it takes to close the deal in the real world. Saying that a salesman lied is like saying that a preacher preached. Geddy got a call (speculation of mine) from Ray about what he said to the vh brothers to get the fat checks rolling in the day of that meeting and ged probably laughed his ass off. It's all in a day's work. I believe Sammy's story. He has had a dramatic life, so why not tell the story? After selling al+ed on that "% of gross scam", l bet ray was ready to sell them swampland in florida for millions. I'm shocked at vh's lack of biz sense. That's the dumbest contract in music history. I'm sure ray dogged on geddys vocals to test the waters and see just hiw gullible vh could be.

In other words, Mara, it's unlikely geddy was offended by what ray said in Sammy's book, even if he's hearing it for the first time. No one in their right mind would believe ray would say that with any sincerity. Ray said that to land the deal, & he pulled it off...

[Brooks]

i just read sams book. it was a pageturner! funny to find out that alex was the big drunk, not eddie!

 

i was shocked about the ray bashing, but knowing how there's 2 sides to every story, i took it w/ a grain of salt... esp since sam doesn't like ray.

 

perhaps (most likey) ray said something more diplomatic to sam, like "rush could have been big on radio w/ a different singer". BIG difference (and TRUE, imo). remember all the negative stuff folks have said about geds vocals, ray has heard this stuff since the 70's.

 

also, sam said ray told him "rush is washed up, they're going to retire"; 1) i doubt he said "washed up",

2) this was about the time of neils tragedies/exile, and retirement prolly seemed very likey at the time.

[the masked drummer]

QUOTE (Brooks @ Apr 15 2011, 08:38 AM)

i just read sams book. it was a pageturner! funny to find out that alex was the big drunk, not eddie! i was shocked about the ray bashing, but knowing how there's 2 sides to every story, i took it w/ a grain of salt... esp since sam doesn't like ray. perhaps (most likey) ray said something more diplomatic to sam, like "rush could have been big on radio w/ a different singer". BIG difference (and TRUE, imo). remember all the negative stuff folks have said about geds vocals, ray has heard this stuff since the 70's. also, sam said ray told him "rush is washed up, they're going to retire"; 1) i doubt he said "washed up", 2) this was about the time of neils tragedies/exile, and retirement prolly seemed very likey at the time.

Your #2 claim sounds like a plausible explanation except for one small detail: Neil's tragedies didnt begin until august 1997, two years after ray supposedly said that about geddy and over one year after sammy left van halen.

"Around the same time" was a bit of a stretch, dontcha think?

[the masked drummer]

QUOTE (Brooks @ Apr 15 2011, 08:38 AM)

i just read sams book. it was a pageturner! funny to find out that alex was the big drunk, not eddie! i was shocked about the ray bashing, but knowing how there's 2 sides to every story, i took it w/ a grain of salt... esp since sam doesn't like ray. perhaps (most likey) ray said something more diplomatic to sam, like "rush could have been big on radio w/ a different singer". BIG difference (and TRUE, imo). remember all the negative stuff folks have said about geds vocals, ray has heard this stuff since the 70's. also, sam said ray told him "rush is washed up, they're going to retire"; 1) i doubt he said "washed up", 2) this was about the time of neils tragedies/exile, and retirement prolly seemed very likey at the time.

Now on to your #1 claim: you said you don't believe ray said "rush are washed up"?? Really??? Do you think that because ray managed rush that he is the ultimate in honesty and integrity? Would never lie to make a buck?? Hahaha...

Look, we're not talking any old band here, we're talking about a band that grosses tens of millions of dollars just for one tour alone, not including record sales, merch etc... we're talking about a business deal worth many millions of dollars over a short period of time. You'd better believe ray would have told those guys that rush died in a plane crash in order to get them to sign the management deal.