LIST YOUR "PERFECT ALBUMS!"

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (ghostworks @ Sep 7 2010, 06:30 PM)

Bill Laswell & Pete Namlook - Psychonavigation (1994) Robert Rich/Lisa Moskow - Yearning (1995) Robert Rich - Fissures (1997) David Sylvian - Dead Bees On A Cake (1999)

I'm just psyched there's anyone on TRF who even KNOWS the Psychonavigation album, much less agrees with me that it's a perfect album!

 

I came THIS close to putting Propogation by Robert Rich on my list. I have several albums by him or including him, but have yet to hear Yearning or Fissures.

 

And David Sylvian - I have a couple albums of his on cassette tape that I quite like, but I need to get some of his stuff on CD...

[metaldad]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 7 2010, 10:01 AM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Sep 7 2010, 07:46 AM) Very cool. My idea of a Perfect album is when i don't skip a song when i listen. While I respect your criteria, if I had that as my criteria, I'd have probably more than a thousand albums on my list!   Your list is very cool though - great to see the perspective from a more metal-based music fan. Yeah, that is pretty much what I call a perfect album. Between c.d, vinyl , Tape and downloads i have about 15 thousand albums so my list is very small. If i don't skip a song that is a huge plus for me

[afurrything]

I thought of 2 more.

Bright Eyes-Lifted or The Story Is in the Soil, Keep Your Ear to the Ground

 

Pearl Jam-Backspacer. Ok I confess I sometimes skip the first song.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Sep 8 2010, 06:13 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 7 2010, 10:01 AM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Sep 7 2010, 07:46 AM) Very cool. My idea of a Perfect album is when i don't skip a song when i listen. While I respect your criteria, if I had that as my criteria, I'd have probably more than a thousand albums on my list!   Your list is very cool though - great to see the perspective from a more metal-based music fan. Yeah, that is pretty much what I call a perfect album. Between c.d, vinyl , Tape and downloads i have about 15 thousand albums so my list is very small. If i don't skip a song that is a huge plus for me Ok, so are you saying that out of 15,000 albums, there are only 100 (the number on your list) where you don't skip any tracks at all?

[metaldad]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 8 2010, 09:28 AM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Sep 8 2010, 06:13 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 7 2010, 10:01 AM) QUOTE (metaldad @ Sep 7 2010, 07:46 AM) Very cool. My idea of a Perfect album is when i don't skip a song when i listen. While I respect your criteria, if I had that as my criteria, I'd have probably more than a thousand albums on my list!   Your list is very cool though - great to see the perspective from a more metal-based music fan. Yeah, that is pretty much what I call a perfect album. Between c.d, vinyl , Tape and downloads i have about 15 thousand albums so my list is very small. If i don't skip a song that is a huge plus for me Ok, so are you saying that out of 15,000 albums, there are only 100 (the number on your list) where you don't skip any tracks at all? Not counting Bootlegs yeah, pretty much . Maybe i missed one or two but that pretty much sums it up. I have albums i love like i said, Van Halen -Van Halen. Should be on my list but YRGM , i don't like so skip i go I love many albums but if i don't press skip, it is perfect for me . I know its not the same as you or most people see as a perfect album , but that is how i do it

[Slaine mac Roth]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 7 2010, 08:12 PM)

QUOTE (Slaine mac Roth @ Sep 7 2010, 11:48 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 7 2010, 05:28 PM) QUOTE (Slaine mac Roth @ Sep 7 2010, 10:13 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 7 2010, 04:32 PM) QUOTE (Slaine mac Roth @ Sep 7 2010, 08:58 AM) I'm not sure there is such a thing as a 'perfect' album. Online recently I saw someone write something like "Can anything really be perfect in art?"   I guess not only what's perfect, but if perfection even exists is subjective. I think it does exist. I think lots and lots and lots of things are just perfect the way they are. I think my problem stems from the use of the word 'perfect'. Personally, I'd be more inclined to use 'ideal' but that's just me What about the word do you not like? Just curious. I think, more than anything, it seems to be overused and here i was ready to engage in a deep philosophical discussion regarding the nature of perfection... Sorry Goob, can't do that.   In my mind, prefection can only be attained by something that genuinely exists. You see, I am the only thing that exists in the universe and you are all figments of my overactive imagination. this overactivity in respect of my imagination means that I am not perfect therefore nothing is perfect.   Cogito Ergo Sum - thing

[thelocator]

Edited September 8, 2010 by thelocator

[rushgoober]

[MMCXII]

Machine Head - Hemisheres - The Yes Album - Led Zeppelin - Boston - Are You Experienced - Sgt Peppers - Dark Side of the Moon Edited September 8, 2010 by MMCXII

[thelocator]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 8 2010, 12:18 PM)

You prove that not only are what albums we think are perfect or not is subjective, but how we view the concept of a perfect album or perfection itself is also entirely subjective. Of course you won't agree with me that you proved anything, even inadvertently so, because you just think that you're right.

Well, I'd be willing to listen to an argument, but instead, you just make an accusation, or rather make an abrupt conclusion and then walk away...I am, in fact, still, clearly pushing forth this proclamation that there MUST BE at least 'some rules' involved here, guidelines leading to at least some level of 'objectivity', for any such list of 'perfection' to have any weight or legitimacy whatsoever.

 

Answer me this, since we've been using this one title as an example...Why is 'Aqualung' on so many people's lists like these? Why does that one, specific JT title appear so regularly, and not others like 'Too Old To Rock n' Roll' or 'Under Wraps'?...There must be some 'defining elements' which everyone is picking up on, leading to the same, semi-universal conclusion that this one, specific album, Aqualung, is on another level altogether...that this one recording transcends the JT catalog entirely and enters another, higher realm of objective artistry, not shared by other JT titles...or not shared by other artists.

 

I think that all of this is true, and objectively true, although 'what it is' that we're all picking up on when we hear this specific title kinda defies definition...and, so far, is a fully 'unconscious' deduction being made by us...WE are not privy at al to the unconscious, decision-making process leading to the conclusions, even though WE MIGHT actually be applying some set of 'Objective Criteria'...Maybe these things are true, but it's 'truth value' only pertains to, only regards human beings....or, perhaps, applies to an even smaller sub-class....maybe it's only true for musicaly-inclined humans.

 

Maybe, while rushgoober can see the truth of this, but only as applied to 'Aqualung'...thelocator can see this truth as applied to both Aqualung AND 'Thick as a Brick'...Perhaps, rushgoober posesses the musical-inclination to detect the truth of Aqualung's incredibly high value, and, would also see it in 'TAAB' as well, if afforded more time with the recording...But, at the same time, rushgooberfalsely detects this 'truth' with the 'Living in the Past' compilation because he lacks the philosophical-inclination to employ a set of 'Objective Criteria', the standards which would 'weed out' all non-serious contenders in the first place. And, of course, he'll now even refute the truth of me being able to detect the truth about his seeing some truths but avoiding others, because he, is in a form of denial about the objective nature of these things to begin with...and that denial clouds further truths from becoming evident...lol.

 

Back to Aqualung...All (most) of us seem to be able to detect and conclude that when all these elements of riffs, melody, uncommon meter and rhythmic patterns, unique vocal delivery, novel flute and acoustic guitar arrangements...when these elements all combine in the specific order in which they are found on Aqualung, the result is something on a much, much higher plane of 'artistry' than, say, the new Justin Beiber or Ludacris outings...IT IS an 'Objective' conclusion that we've all reached here, independently, although we, at the present time, are unable to convert this process of cerebral dissection into simple language. Maybe no explanation will ever exist because 'reductionism' doesn't apply here...even though the objectivity is there...We're able to make the 'consensus' ruling, but can't extrapolate any generalized 'rules' from all these Classic OR Perfect titles , which we could then use by going out to the garage immediatly and concocting one of our own masterpieces...

 

Listen, you will not find a bigger Jethro Tull fan than myself...I know nearly every single song, and literally have love for every single album title between '69 and '82, to varying degrees, of course...I personally CAN NOT understand why many-to-most other Rock fans are not all over this band, why they can't understand and appreciate them like I do...But, during another period of my life, I COULD NOT understand what anyone would find 'appealing' about them in the least...the complete polar opposite conclusion made about the same exact band by the same person...Not same 'exact' person, though...My tastes had changed, yes...This whole paragraph obviously speaks to my 'Subjective' tastes...But, to be fair, the time when I didn't like Jethro Tull also coincides with the period where I didn't really know much of the band's output, other than maybe the mere handful of songs that Classic Rock Radio permits us, allows us to know about...

 

Something objectively seperates those two aforementioned titles in the Jethro Tull discography which are able to transcend the band's catalog, the genre as a whole, and Rock Music itself, and qualify these items as things which approach 'Perfection'....I think that a bunch of albums from a bunch of different artists and genres are capable of fulfilling this objecive/unconscious set of criteria which determine these things for us...Like, myself, I'm able to make the deduction that an album is technically really good, without having to like it one bit...I remember the early U2 catalog posing this dilemma for me...Because friends listened to them all the time when I was a teen, I was able to deduce that many of those U2 titles were extremely solid works, but I didn't care for their sound one bit...That's true objectivity in action...I had a friend years back that couldn't stand Metal, but was still able to acknowledge that Queensryche's Mindcrime was a masterpiece...Imagine that, a masterpiece that he didn't want to hear at all...But, that's objectivity...

 

I think that I'm able to do the same thing wih a list such as this one, something which attempts to approximate a notion as abstract and elusive as 'perfection'...My list would only be as objective as my own tastes and my own musical knowledge would permit...which, still would allow for a much, much more broad, objective outlook and determinaton than the average person could hope to achieve with the same endeavor...In many ways, a list of my own undertaking would reflect and approximate the Rock fan population as a whole...Why is this?

 

Like I said, I believe myself to be really, really objective, man...lol...Or, at least 'capable' of being so, if not directly obvious with it in my daily applications...My list would look sorta like Rolling Stone's Top 500 album list after being beaten about the head, chest and neck area ...I think that VH1 did a similar one as well....Mine would probably share roughly 1/2 mass with the total average of these other lists...Their list would, of course, be padded for several different reasons...And, chopping the thing directly in half would make ample enough room for the essentials that these organizations couldn't touch upon for a multitude of political and financial reasons.

 

But, although there would be a massive amount of overlap, I'm betting that mine would be much more objective than even theirs...The reasons for this should be sorta obvious...They have obligations to people, to groups, to shareholders...To a certain degree, RS and VH1 would want to be as mainstream and mass-appeal as humanly possible, in an attempt to represent each genre and era of music fairly equally, so that they can appeal to all demographics and keep them all watching along until the next commerical break, as well as buying magazine subscriptions in droves...You would also see a major subjective slant given to that type of short, simplistic, lyrical, commercial-style of songwriting which appeals to the writing staff and publishers of RS and VH1...Ever notice which styles of music are celebrated at the Grammys?...Same would apply here to some degree...

 

Although, I certainly wouldn't have twenty five Bob Dylan titles and 20 Ramones albums on a list of 500...I would CITE SEVERAL OBSCURE TITLES, if and only if they were close to approximating this theme of 'perfection', yet still criminallly overlooked by the majority of people...I wouldn't just cite a title because I had a deep, personal fondness for it...I would include things I disliked, and would care not if I offended certain people by completely removing over-rated disasters such as The Beatles' White Album and The Rolling Stones' Exile on Main Street...

 

In short, myself, as as single individual, would be MUCH MORE PRACTICAL & OBJECIVE than teams of these people working in unison could ever be...and, that's mainly because I'd have no one writing me a check for my involvement in such an endeavor...And, secondly, because I tend to be a wholly disillusioned dude who sees things as they actually exist in the world, without the sugar-coating that most people get to add, due to the very human, yet very delusory nature of self.

 

 

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (thelocator @ Sep 8 2010, 05:46 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 8 2010, 12:18 PM) You prove that not only are what albums we think are perfect or not is subjective, but how we view the concept of a perfect album or perfection itself is also entirely subjective. Of course you won't agree with me that you proved anything, even inadvertently so, because you just think that you're right. Well, I'd be willing to listen to an argument, but instead, you just make an accusation, or rather make an abrupt conclusion and then walk away...I am, in fact, still, clearly pushing forth this proclamation that there MUST BE at least 'some rules' involved here, guidelines leading to at least some level of 'objectivity', for any such list of 'perfection' to have any weight or legitimacy whatsoever.   Answer me this, since we've been using this one title as an example...Why is 'Aqualung' on so many people's lists like these? Why does that one, specific JT title appear so regularly, and not others like 'Too Old To Rock n' Roll' or 'Under Wraps'?...There must be some 'defining elements' which everyone is picking up on, leading to the same, semi-universal conclusion that this one, specific album, Aqualung, is on another level altogether...that this one recording transcends the JT catalog entirely and enters another, higher realm of objective artistry, not shared by other JT titles...or not shared by other artists.   I think that all of this is true, and objectively true, although 'what it is' that we're all picking up on when we hear this specific title kinda defies definition...and, so far, is a fully 'unconscious' deduction being made by us...WE are not privy at al to the unconscious, decision-making process leading to the conclusions, even though WE MIGHT actually be applying some set of 'Objective Criteria'...Maybe these things are true, but it's 'truth value' only pertains to, only regards human beings....or, perhaps, applies to an even smaller sub-class....maybe it's only true for musicaly-inclined humans.   Maybe, while rushgoober can see the truth of this, but only as applied to 'Aqualung'...thelocator can see this truth as applied to both Aqualung AND 'Thick as a Brick'...Perhaps, rushgoober posesses the musical-inclination to detect the truth of Aqualung's incredibly high value, and, would also see it in 'TAAB' as well, if afforded more time with the recording...But, at the same time, rushgooberfalsely detects this 'truth' with the 'Living in the Past' compilation because he lacks the philosophical-inclination to employ a set of 'Objective Criteria', the standards which would 'weed out' all non-serious contenders in the first place. And, of course, he'll now even refute the truth of me being able to detect the truth about his seeing some truths but avoiding others, because he, is in a form of denial about the objective nature of these things to begin with...and that denial clouds further truths from becoming evident...lol.   Back to Aqualung...All (most) of us seem to be able to detect and conclude that when all these elements of riffs, melody, uncommon meter and rhythmic patterns, unique vocal delivery, novel flute and acoustic guitar arrangements...when these elements all combine in the specific order in which they are found on Aqualung, the result is something on a much, much higher plane of 'artistry' than, say, the new Justin Beiber or Ludacris outings...IT IS an 'Objective' conclusion that we've all reached here, independently, although we, at the present time, are unable to convert this process of cerebral dissection into simple language. Maybe no explanation will ever exist because 'reductionism' doesn't apply here...even though the objectivity is there...We're able to make the 'consensus' ruling, but can't extrapolate any generalized 'rules' from all these Classic OR Perfect titles , which we could then use by going out to the garage immediatly and concocting one of our own masterpieces...   Listen, you will not find a bigger Jethro Tull fan than myself...I know nearly every single song, and literally have love for every single album title between '69 and '82, to varying degrees, of course...I personally CAN NOT understand why many-to-most other Rock fans are not all over this band, why they can't understand and appreciate them like I do...But, during another period of my life, I COULD NOT understand what anyone would find 'appealing' about them in the least...the complete polar opposite conclusion made about the same exact band by the same person...Not same 'exact' person, though...My tastes had changed, yes...This whole paragraph obviously speaks to my 'Subjective' tastes...But, to be fair, the time when I didn't like Jethro Tull also coincides with the period where I didn't really know much of the band's output, other than maybe the mere handful of songs that Classic Rock Radio permits us, allows us to know about...   Something objectively seperates those two aforementioned titles in the Jethro Tull discography which are able to transcend the band's catalog, the genre as a whole, and Rock Music itself, and qualify these items as things which approach 'Perfection'....I think that a bunch of albums from a bunch of different artists and genres are capable of fulfilling this objecive/unconscious set of criteria which determine these things for us...Like, myself, I'm able to make the deduction that an album is technically really good, without having to like it one bit...I remember the early U2 catalog posing this dilemma for me...Because friends listened to them all the time when I was a teen, I was able to deduce that many of those U2 titles were extremely solid works, but I didn't care for their sound one bit...That's true objectivity in action...I had a friend years back that couldn't stand Metal, but was still able to acknowledge that Queensryche's Mindcrime was a masterpiece...Imagine that, a masterpiece that he didn't want to hear at all...But, that's objectivity...   I think that I'm able to do the same thing wih a list such as this one, something which attempts to approximate a notion as abstract and elusive as 'perfection'...My list would only be as objective as my own tastes and my own musical knowledge would permit...which, still would allow for a much, much more broad, objective outlook and determinaton than the average person could hope to achieve with the same endeavor...In many ways, a list of my own undertaking would reflect and approximate the Rock fan population as a whole...Why is this?   Like I said, I believe myself to be really, really objective, man...lol...Or, at least 'capable' of being so, if not directly obvious with it in my daily applications...My list would look sorta like Rolling Stone's Top 500 album list after being beaten about the head, chest and neck area ...I think that VH1 did a similar one as well....Mine would probably share roughly 1/2 mass with the total average of these other lists...Their list would, of course, be padded for several different reasons...And, chopping the thing directly in half would make ample enough room for the essentials that these organizations couldn't touch upon for a multitude of political and financial reasons.   But, although there would be a massive amount of overlap, I'm betting that mine would be much more objective than even theirs...The reasons for this should be sorta obvious...They have obligations to people, to groups, to shareholders...To a certain degree, RS and VH1 would want to be as mainstream and mass-appeal as humanly possible, in an attempt to represent each genre and era of music fairly equally, so that they can appeal to all demographics and keep them all watching along until the next commerical break, as well as buying magazine subscriptions in droves...You would also see a major subjective slant given to that type of short, simplistic, lyrical, commercial-style of songwriting which appeals to the writing staff and publishers of RS and VH1...Ever notice which styles of music are celebrated at the Grammys?...Same would apply here to some degree...   Although, I certainly wouldn't have twenty five Bob Dylan titles and 20 Ramones albums on a list of 500...I would CITE SEVERAL OBSCURE TITLES, if and only if they were close to approximating this theme of 'perfection', yet still criminallly overlooked by the majority of people...I wouldn't just cite a title because I had a deep, personal fondness for it...I would include things I disliked, and would care not if I offended certain people by completely removing over-rated disasters such as The Beatles' White Album and The Rolling Stones' Exile on Main Street...   In short, myself, as as single individual, would be MUCH MORE PRACTICAL & OBJECIVE than teams of these people working in unison could ever be...and, that's mainly because I'd have no one writing me a check for my involvement in such an endeavor...And, secondly, because I tend to be a wholly disillusioned dude who sees things as they actually exist in the world, without the sugar-coating that most people get to add, due to the very human, yet very delusory nature of self.   and yes, i really don't have any other comment. if you need to consider that you won the argument (if we were even having one), feel free.   my criteria and my list are what they are. please feel free to add your own list, i'd love to see it.

Edited September 9, 2010 by rushgoober

[KenJennings]

This is my 'best of best' favorites list.

 

Buckethead - Colma

Coheed and Cambria - From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness

Dream Theater - Images and Words

Dream Theater - Scenes From a Memory

Dream Theater - Black Clouds and Silver Linings

Dredg - Catch Without Arms

Dredg - The Pariah, The Parrot, The Delusion

Endochine - Day Two

Explosions in the Sky - The Earth is not a Cold Dead Place

Frost* - Milliontown

Jordan Rudess - The Road Home

Neal Morse - Sola Scriptura

Porcupine Tree - Stupid Dream

Porcupine Tree - In Absentia

Porcupine Tree - Lightbulb Sun

Porcupine Tree - The Incident

Queen - Sheer Heart Attack

Rush - Permanent Waves

Rush - Hold Your Fire

Rush - A Show of Hands

Rush - Vapor Trails

Rush - Snakes and Arrows

Spock's Beard - Day for Night

Spock's Beard - V

Stream of Passion - Embrace the Storm

Thanatopsis - Axiology

The Highwaymen - The Highwaymen

The Mars Volta - Deloused in the Comatorium

Transatlantic - SMPTe (The Roine Stolt mixes)

Yes - The Yes Album

 

 

[thelocator]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 7 2010, 03:12 PM)

and here i was ready to engage in a deep philosophical discussion regarding the nature of perfection...

 

I was just trying to play the role of the 'make a wish foundation'...

 

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 8 2010, 10:59 PM)

and yes, i really don't have any other comment.  if you need to consider that you won the argument (if we were even having one), feel free.  my criteria and my list are what they are.  please feel free to add your own list, i'd love to see it.

 

Ah, it was more like me sharing what shoulda stayed as a buncha internal-dialogue on the subject...I just had to basically clarify some points on the matter, some unsettled, perhaps volatile and unstable abstractions, and you kinda played the role of the little, old lady on the bus who forgot her damn hearing-aides and just sorta smiled and nodded her way through the entire spiel, until finally reaching a breaking point and getting off the bus a full two stops ahead of home, just to escape the verbal onslaught...Somethin' like that. lol.

 

But, I'm now certain that you should indeed rename this list of yours as such, "Some albums that I like which have some pretty good songs on them, and others with some much better songs, but all of which that I do indeed like, even though the notion of 'equal measure' can never realistically be applied when measuring such disparate items in such said scenarios as those set forth by me, without some form of consensus lending credence to the notion." This would be a much more catchy and accurate title for the items found ther on your list...Just sayin'.

 

 

[rushgoober]

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 7 2010, 09:25 AM)

the Dream Academy - "The Dream Academy" 1985

Is that the album that includes Life in a Northern Town? I love that song, but always made the assumption that they couldn't possibly have any songs as good as that, so I never explored them further. Is that far and away the best song on that album, or does the rest of it hold up to that standard?

 

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 7 2010, 09:25 AM)

the Fixx - "Shuttered Room" 1982

another group where there's a few songs (some of the bigger hits) that I really liked like Red Skies and One Thing Leads to Another - do they have other songs of that quality? I know most people if they heard a great song would probably explore groups further, but there were so few popular songs in the 80's that I really liked that I just made the (perhaps erroneous) assumption that I was lucky to hear one song I liked by someone, and not expect there would be others, since usually when i DID delve deeper, that was the case...

Edited September 9, 2010 by rushgoober

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 9 2010, 07:24 AM)

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 7 2010, 09:25 AM) the Dream Academy - "The Dream Academy" 1985 Is that the album that includes Life in a Northern Town? I love that song, but always made the assumption that they couldn't possibly have any songs as good as that, so I never explored them further. Is that far and away the best song on that album, or does the rest of it hold up to that standard?   QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 7 2010, 09:25 AM) the Fixx - "Shuttered Room" 1982 another group where there's a few songs (some of the bigger hits) that I really liked like Red Skies and One Thing Leads to Another - do they have other songs of that quality? I know most people if they heard a great song would probably explore groups further, but there were so few popular songs in the 80's that I really liked that I just made the (perhaps erroneous) assumption that I was lucky to hear one song I liked by someone, and not expect there would be others, since usually when i DID delve deeper, that was the case...   I agree on both counts. I loved "Life in a Northern Town" but never bothered to explore Dream Academy further, assuming they couldn't possibly have anything else as good.   The Fixx had some great hits, the two Gary mentioned plus "Saved by Zero" and "Secret Separation," but I'm unfamiliar with the rest of their catalog. Produced by Rupert Hine, they have a kind of Rupert Hine-ish sound, as does (paradoxically) Howard Jones.

[Ted Barchetta]

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Sep 9 2010, 05:46 AM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 9 2010, 07:24 AM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 7 2010, 09:25 AM) the Dream Academy - "The Dream Academy" 1985 Is that the album that includes Life in a Northern Town? I love that song, but always made the assumption that they couldn't possibly have any songs as good as that, so I never explored them further. Is that far and away the best song on that album, or does the rest of it hold up to that standard?   QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 7 2010, 09:25 AM) the Fixx - "Shuttered Room" 1982 another group where there's a few songs (some of the bigger hits) that I really liked like Red Skies and One Thing Leads to Another - do they have other songs of that quality? I know most people if they heard a great song would probably explore groups further, but there were so few popular songs in the 80's that I really liked that I just made the (perhaps erroneous) assumption that I was lucky to hear one song I liked by someone, and not expect there would be others, since usually when i DID delve deeper, that was the case...   I agree on both counts. I loved "Life in a Northern Town" but never bothered to explore Dream Academy further, assuming they couldn't possibly have anything else as good.   The Fixx had some great hits, the two Gary mentioned plus "Saved by Zero" and "Secret Separation," but I'm unfamiliar with the rest of their catalog. Produced by Rupert Hine, they have a kind of Rupert Hine-ish sound, as does (paradoxically) Howard Jones. I love The Dream Academy!   One of the other things they did was the music for the art museum scene in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" It's an Instrumental cover of The Smiths song "Please, Please, Please Let Me Get What I Want."   It's really great; one of my favorite covers of all time.

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (Ted Barchetta @ Sep 9 2010, 08:53 AM)

QUOTE (GeddyRulz @ Sep 9 2010, 05:46 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 9 2010, 07:24 AM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 7 2010, 09:25 AM) the Dream Academy - "The Dream Academy" 1985 Is that the album that includes Life in a Northern Town? I love that song, but always made the assumption that they couldn't possibly have any songs as good as that, so I never explored them further. Is that far and away the best song on that album, or does the rest of it hold up to that standard?   QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 7 2010, 09:25 AM) the Fixx - "Shuttered Room" 1982 another group where there's a few songs (some of the bigger hits) that I really liked like Red Skies and One Thing Leads to Another - do they have other songs of that quality? I know most people if they heard a great song would probably explore groups further, but there were so few popular songs in the 80's that I really liked that I just made the (perhaps erroneous) assumption that I was lucky to hear one song I liked by someone, and not expect there would be others, since usually when i DID delve deeper, that was the case...   I agree on both counts. I loved "Life in a Northern Town" but never bothered to explore Dream Academy further, assuming they couldn't possibly have anything else as good.   The Fixx had some great hits, the two Gary mentioned plus "Saved by Zero" and "Secret Separation," but I'm unfamiliar with the rest of their catalog. Produced by Rupert Hine, they have a kind of Rupert Hine-ish sound, as does (paradoxically) Howard Jones. I love The Dream Academy!   One of the other things they did was the music for the art museum scene in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" It's an Instrumental cover of The Smiths song "Please, Please, Please Let Me Get What I Want."   It's really great; one of my favorite covers of all time. I know the original Smiths song, and yeah, that sounds like a gentle instrumental version in the museum scene. I didn't know that was Dream Academy performing it.   Originally, John Hughes had gotten the Cure to do an original song for that scene, and the rumour is the Cure song was legen... wait for it... dary, but for some reason (which I've forgotten) it couldn't be used.

[circumstantial tree]

Regarding Dream Academy, there were two songs on Ferris Bueller. The cover version of "Please Please Let Me Get What I Want" as mentioned. They actually had vocals to the song, but felt it was better as an instrumental.

 

The other song is called "The Edge of Forever" which is on the debut album. It's played in the movie somewhere close to the end when Mia Sara and Matthew Broderick are embracing.

 

I would recommend "Dream Academy". It was one of those albums that took a few listens to finally get into. But I really love it now. It's produced mostly by David Gilmour. Peter Buck of REM makes a guest appearance on one song called "The Party".

 

The other "hit" from the album was "Love Parade". I got that single back in 1985 when it was released. The side B song "Girl in a Million" is a beautiful tune about ill-fated film star Edie Sedgewick who was a friend of Andy Warhol. Unfortunately, it's not on any album, but it's on youtube.

 

They did two more albums that were pretty good. "Remembrance Days", which I think is fair and the third album "A Different Kind of Weather" also produced by David Gilmour. They split up after that. There is a song on Remembrance Days that shows up in the soundtrack for "Plane, Trains, and Automobiles" as well.

 

Regarding the Fixx, I have always liked that band. "Shuttered Room" has my favorite Fixx tune "Stand or Fall" which came out about the same time as "Subdivisions".

Edited September 9, 2010 by circumstantial tree

[Mystic Slipperman]

OK, here's a short list:

 

 

The Who - Who's Next

Genesis - A Trick of the Tail & Duke

Rush - Permanent Waves & Moving Pictures

Yes - Close to the Edge & Going For The One

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue & In A Silent Way

Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um

Fairport Convention - Liege and Lief

Bill Withers - Live at Carnegie Hall

Stevie Wonder - Innervisions

Neil Young - Rust Never Sleeps

Rolling Stones - Sticky Fingers & Let It Bleed

Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here & Dark Side of the Moon

Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast

Journey - Escape

Marvin Gaye - What's Going On

The Police - Ghost in the Machine

Toy Matinee - Toy Matinee

Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin III & IV

The Band - Music From Big Pink & The Band

Joni Mitchell - Hejira

Bill Evans Trio - Sunday At The Village Vanguard & Waltz for Debby

Traffic - John Barleycorn Must Die & The Low Spark of High Heeled Boys

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 9 2010, 10:19 AM)

The side B song "Girl in a Million" is a beautiful tune about ill-fated film star Edie Sedgewick who was a friend of Andy Warhol. Unfortunately, it's not on any album, but it's on youtube.

"Little Miss S." by Edie Brickell and New Bohemians is also about Edie Sedgwick. I've read the Sedgwick biography and seen her film Ciao! Manhattan. There really was "something" about her... but she was really messed up.

 

QUOTE

Regarding the Fixx, I have always liked that band. "Shuttered Room" has my favorite Fixx tune "Stand or Fall" which came out about the same time as "Subdivisions."

 

Oh yeah! I forgot that Fixx song. We've now listed five "hits" by them.

[circumstantial tree]

I've not heard Edie Brickell's tune, but the Dream Academy tune is a sad tune particularly towards the end. I get the feeling the music reflects the innocence at her beginning and ultimate downfall. The music starts out somewhat "light" but increasingly becomes sad and depressing.

 

I love the oboe in classical music. Kate St. John is a member of the Dream Academy and plays it in many of their songs including "Life in a Northern Town".

 

By the way, "Life in a Northern Town" is an ode to Nick Drake who influenced the singer of the band.

[GeddyRulz]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Sep 9 2010, 12:50 PM)

I've not heard Edie Brickell's tune...

Nothing to write home about really, but an "okay" song. Little Miss S.

 

 

[*Limelight*]

QUOTE (thelocator @ Sep 8 2010, 05:46 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 8 2010, 12:18 PM) You prove that not only are what albums we think are perfect or not is subjective, but how we view the concept of a perfect album or perfection itself is also entirely subjective. Of course you won't agree with me that you proved anything, even inadvertently so, because you just think that you're right. Well, I'd be willing to listen to an argument, but instead, you just make an accusation, or rather make an abrupt conclusion and then walk away...I am, in fact, still, clearly pushing forth this proclamation that there MUST BE at least 'some rules' involved here, guidelines leading to at least some level of 'objectivity', for any such list of 'perfection' to have any weight or legitimacy whatsoever.   Answer me this, since we've been using this one title as an example...Why is 'Aqualung' on so many people's lists like these? Why does that one, specific JT title appear so regularly, and not others like 'Too Old To Rock n' Roll' or 'Under Wraps'?...There must be some 'defining elements' which everyone is picking up on, leading to the same, semi-universal conclusion that this one, specific album, Aqualung, is on another level altogether...that this one recording transcends the JT catalog entirely and enters another, higher realm of objective artistry, not shared by other JT titles...or not shared by other artists.   I think that all of this is true, and objectively true, although 'what it is' that we're all picking up on when we hear this specific title kinda defies definition...and, so far, is a fully 'unconscious' deduction being made by us...WE are not privy at al to the unconscious, decision-making process leading to the conclusions, even though WE MIGHT actually be applying some set of 'Objective Criteria'...Maybe these things are true, but it's 'truth value' only pertains to, only regards human beings....or, perhaps, applies to an even smaller sub-class....maybe it's only true for musicaly-inclined humans.   Maybe, while rushgoober can see the truth of this, but only as applied to 'Aqualung'...thelocator can see this truth as applied to both Aqualung AND 'Thick as a Brick'...Perhaps, rushgoober posesses the musical-inclination to detect the truth of Aqualung's incredibly high value, and, would also see it in 'TAAB' as well, if afforded more time with the recording...But, at the same time, rushgooberfalsely detects this 'truth' with the 'Living in the Past' compilation because he lacks the philosophical-inclination to employ a set of 'Objective Criteria', the standards which would 'weed out' all non-serious contenders in the first place. And, of course, he'll now even refute the truth of me being able to detect the truth about his seeing some truths but avoiding others, because he, is in a form of denial about the objective nature of these things to begin with...and that denial clouds further truths from becoming evident...lol.   Back to Aqualung...All (most) of us seem to be able to detect and conclude that when all these elements of riffs, melody, uncommon meter and rhythmic patterns, unique vocal delivery, novel flute and acoustic guitar arrangements...when these elements all combine in the specific order in which they are found on Aqualung, the result is something on a much, much higher plane of 'artistry' than, say, the new Justin Beiber or Ludacris outings...IT IS an 'Objective' conclusion that we've all reached here, independently, although we, at the present time, are unable to convert this process of cerebral dissection into simple language. Maybe no explanation will ever exist because 'reductionism' doesn't apply here...even though the objectivity is there...We're able to make the 'consensus' ruling, but can't extrapolate any generalized 'rules' from all these Classic OR Perfect titles , which we could then use by going out to the garage immediatly and concocting one of our own masterpieces...   Listen, you will not find a bigger Jethro Tull fan than myself...I know nearly every single song, and literally have love for every single album title between '69 and '82, to varying degrees, of course...I personally CAN NOT understand why many-to-most other Rock fans are not all over this band, why they can't understand and appreciate them like I do...But, during another period of my life, I COULD NOT understand what anyone would find 'appealing' about them in the least...the complete polar opposite conclusion made about the same exact band by the same person...Not same 'exact' person, though...My tastes had changed, yes...This whole paragraph obviously speaks to my 'Subjective' tastes...But, to be fair, the time when I didn't like Jethro Tull also coincides with the period where I didn't really know much of the band's output, other than maybe the mere handful of songs that Classic Rock Radio permits us, allows us to know about...   Something objectively seperates those two aforementioned titles in the Jethro Tull discography which are able to transcend the band's catalog, the genre as a whole, and Rock Music itself, and qualify these items as things which approach 'Perfection'....I think that a bunch of albums from a bunch of different artists and genres are capable of fulfilling this objecive/unconscious set of criteria which determine these things for us...Like, myself, I'm able to make the deduction that an album is technically really good, without having to like it one bit...I remember the early U2 catalog posing this dilemma for me...Because friends listened to them all the time when I was a teen, I was able to deduce that many of those U2 titles were extremely solid works, but I didn't care for their sound one bit...That's true objectivity in action...I had a friend years back that couldn't stand Metal, but was still able to acknowledge that Queensryche's Mindcrime was a masterpiece...Imagine that, a masterpiece that he didn't want to hear at all...But, that's objectivity...   I think that I'm able to do the same thing wih a list such as this one, something which attempts to approximate a notion as abstract and elusive as 'perfection'...My list would only be as objective as my own tastes and my own musical knowledge would permit...which, still would allow for a much, much more broad, objective outlook and determinaton than the average person could hope to achieve with the same endeavor...In many ways, a list of my own undertaking would reflect and approximate the Rock fan population as a whole...Why is this?   Like I said, I believe myself to be really, really objective, man...lol...Or, at least 'capable' of being so, if not directly obvious with it in my daily applications...My list would look sorta like Rolling Stone's Top 500 album list after being beaten about the head, chest and neck area ...I think that VH1 did a similar one as well....Mine would probably share roughly 1/2 mass with the total average of these other lists...Their list would, of course, be padded for several different reasons...And, chopping the thing directly in half would make ample enough room for the essentials that these organizations couldn't touch upon for a multitude of political and financial reasons.   But, although there would be a massive amount of overlap, I'm betting that mine would be much more objective than even theirs...The reasons for this should be sorta obvious...They have obligations to people, to groups, to shareholders...To a certain degree, RS and VH1 would want to be as mainstream and mass-appeal as humanly possible, in an attempt to represent each genre and era of music fairly equally, so that they can appeal to all demographics and keep them all watching along until the next commerical break, as well as buying magazine subscriptions in droves...You would also see a major subjective slant given to that type of short, simplistic, lyrical, commercial-style of songwriting which appeals to the writing staff and publishers of RS and VH1...Ever notice which styles of music are celebrated at the Grammys?...Same would apply here to some degree...   Although, I certainly wouldn't have twenty five Bob Dylan titles and 20 Ramones albums on a list of 500...I would CITE SEVERAL OBSCURE TITLES, if and only if they were close to approximating this theme of 'perfection', yet still criminallly overlooked by the majority of people...I wouldn't just cite a title because I had a deep, personal fondness for it...I would include things I disliked, and would care not if I offended certain people by completely removing over-rated disasters such as The Beatles' White Album and The Rolling Stones' Exile on Main Street...   In short, myself, as as single individual, would be MUCH MORE PRACTICAL & OBJECIVE than teams of these people working in unison could ever be...and, that's mainly because I'd have no one writing me a check for my involvement in such an endeavor...And, secondly, because I tend to be a wholly disillusioned dude who sees things as they actually exist in the world, without the sugar-coating that most people get to add, due to the very human, yet very delusory nature of self. You realize 1/ 100 members will read this and care?

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (*Limelight* @ Sep 9 2010, 02:30 PM)

QUOTE (thelocator @ Sep 8 2010, 05:46 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 8 2010, 12:18 PM) You prove that not only are what albums we think are perfect or not is subjective, but how we view the concept of a perfect album or perfection itself is also entirely subjective. Of course you won't agree with me that you proved anything, even inadvertently so, because you just think that you're right. Well, I'd be willing to listen to an argument, but instead, you just make an accusation, or rather make an abrupt conclusion and then walk away...I am, in fact, still, clearly pushing forth this proclamation that there MUST BE at least 'some rules' involved here, guidelines leading to at least some level of 'objectivity', for any such list of 'perfection' to have any weight or legitimacy whatsoever.   Answer me this, since we've been using this one title as an example...Why is 'Aqualung' on so many people's lists like these? Why does that one, specific JT title appear so regularly, and not others like 'Too Old To Rock n' Roll' or 'Under Wraps'?...There must be some 'defining elements' which everyone is picking up on, leading to the same, semi-universal conclusion that this one, specific album, Aqualung, is on another level altogether...that this one recording transcends the JT catalog entirely and enters another, higher realm of objective artistry, not shared by other JT titles...or not shared by other artists.   I think that all of this is true, and objectively true, although 'what it is' that we're all picking up on when we hear this specific title kinda defies definition...and, so far, is a fully 'unconscious' deduction being made by us...WE are not privy at al to the unconscious, decision-making process leading to the conclusions, even though WE MIGHT actually be applying some set of 'Objective Criteria'...Maybe these things are true, but it's 'truth value' only pertains to, only regards human beings....or, perhaps, applies to an even smaller sub-class....maybe it's only true for musicaly-inclined humans.   Maybe, while rushgoober can see the truth of this, but only as applied to 'Aqualung'...thelocator can see this truth as applied to both Aqualung AND 'Thick as a Brick'...Perhaps, rushgoober posesses the musical-inclination to detect the truth of Aqualung's incredibly high value, and, would also see it in 'TAAB' as well, if afforded more time with the recording...But, at the same time, rushgooberfalsely detects this 'truth' with the 'Living in the Past' compilation because he lacks the philosophical-inclination to employ a set of 'Objective Criteria', the standards which would 'weed out' all non-serious contenders in the first place. And, of course, he'll now even refute the truth of me being able to detect the truth about his seeing some truths but avoiding others, because he, is in a form of denial about the objective nature of these things to begin with...and that denial clouds further truths from becoming evident...lol.   Back to Aqualung...All (most) of us seem to be able to detect and conclude that when all these elements of riffs, melody, uncommon meter and rhythmic patterns, unique vocal delivery, novel flute and acoustic guitar arrangements...when these elements all combine in the specific order in which they are found on Aqualung, the result is something on a much, much higher plane of 'artistry' than, say, the new Justin Beiber or Ludacris outings...IT IS an 'Objective' conclusion that we've all reached here, independently, although we, at the present time, are unable to convert this process of cerebral dissection into simple language. Maybe no explanation will ever exist because 'reductionism' doesn't apply here...even though the objectivity is there...We're able to make the 'consensus' ruling, but can't extrapolate any generalized 'rules' from all these Classic OR Perfect titles , which we could then use by going out to the garage immediatly and concocting one of our own masterpieces...   Listen, you will not find a bigger Jethro Tull fan than myself...I know nearly every single song, and literally have love for every single album title between '69 and '82, to varying degrees, of course...I personally CAN NOT understand why many-to-most other Rock fans are not all over this band, why they can't understand and appreciate them like I do...But, during another period of my life, I COULD NOT understand what anyone would find 'appealing' about them in the least...the complete polar opposite conclusion made about the same exact band by the same person...Not same 'exact' person, though...My tastes had changed, yes...This whole paragraph obviously speaks to my 'Subjective' tastes...But, to be fair, the time when I didn't like Jethro Tull also coincides with the period where I didn't really know much of the band's output, other than maybe the mere handful of songs that Classic Rock Radio permits us, allows us to know about...   Something objectively seperates those two aforementioned titles in the Jethro Tull discography which are able to transcend the band's catalog, the genre as a whole, and Rock Music itself, and qualify these items as things which approach 'Perfection'....I think that a bunch of albums from a bunch of different artists and genres are capable of fulfilling this objecive/unconscious set of criteria which determine these things for us...Like, myself, I'm able to make the deduction that an album is technically really good, without having to like it one bit...I remember the early U2 catalog posing this dilemma for me...Because friends listened to them all the time when I was a teen, I was able to deduce that many of those U2 titles were extremely solid works, but I didn't care for their sound one bit...That's true objectivity in action...I had a friend years back that couldn't stand Metal, but was still able to acknowledge that Queensryche's Mindcrime was a masterpiece...Imagine that, a masterpiece that he didn't want to hear at all...But, that's objectivity...   I think that I'm able to do the same thing wih a list such as this one, something which attempts to approximate a notion as abstract and elusive as 'perfection'...My list would only be as objective as my own tastes and my own musical knowledge would permit...which, still would allow for a much, much more broad, objective outlook and determinaton than the average person could hope to achieve with the same endeavor...In many ways, a list of my own undertaking would reflect and approximate the Rock fan population as a whole...Why is this?   Like I said, I believe myself to be really, really objective, man...lol...Or, at least 'capable' of being so, if not directly obvious with it in my daily applications...My list would look sorta like Rolling Stone's Top 500 album list after being beaten about the head, chest and neck area ...I think that VH1 did a similar one as well....Mine would probably share roughly 1/2 mass with the total average of these other lists...Their list would, of course, be padded for several different reasons...And, chopping the thing directly in half would make ample enough room for the essentials that these organizations couldn't touch upon for a multitude of political and financial reasons.   But, although there would be a massive amount of overlap, I'm betting that mine would be much more objective than even theirs...The reasons for this should be sorta obvious...They have obligations to people, to groups, to shareholders...To a certain degree, RS and VH1 would want to be as mainstream and mass-appeal as humanly possible, in an attempt to represent each genre and era of music fairly equally, so that they can appeal to all demographics and keep them all watching along until the next commerical break, as well as buying magazine subscriptions in droves...You would also see a major subjective slant given to that type of short, simplistic, lyrical, commercial-style of songwriting which appeals to the writing staff and publishers of RS and VH1...Ever notice which styles of music are celebrated at the Grammys?...Same would apply here to some degree...   Although, I certainly wouldn't have twenty five Bob Dylan titles and 20 Ramones albums on a list of 500...I would CITE SEVERAL OBSCURE TITLES, if and only if they were close to approximating this theme of 'perfection', yet still criminallly overlooked by the majority of people...I wouldn't just cite a title because I had a deep, personal fondness for it...I would include things I disliked, and would care not if I offended certain people by completely removing over-rated disasters such as The Beatles' White Album and The Rolling Stones' Exile on Main Street...   In short, myself, as as single individual, would be MUCH MORE PRACTICAL & OBJECIVE than teams of these people working in unison could ever be...and, that's mainly because I'd have no one writing me a check for my involvement in such an endeavor...And, secondly, because I tend to be a wholly disillusioned dude who sees things as they actually exist in the world, without the sugar-coating that most people get to add, due to the very human, yet very delusory nature of self. You realize 1/ 100 members will read this and care? http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee138/ReRushed/snob.jpg Oh, really!!!!