Porcupine Tree vs. Dream Theater

[metaldad]

QUOTE (Tortoise and Hare @ Aug 6 2008, 07:09 PM)

DREAM THEATER!!! PT is enjoyable and interesting - - "lighter" stuff for maybe a quiet time. They're "cute" - - in a sort of British Invasion sort of way. But if I'm feeding the machine, it's DREAM THEATER that gets loaded along with RUSH and MAIDEN!!! Dream Theater makes my eyes roll and my legs weak - - they are ridiculously exciting and sexually charged. On my music barometer - - and I'm exceptionally fussy - - they're right up there at the top! The progressions, the harmonies, the changes, the solos, the psychologically edgy lyrics - - DT is wicked awesome!!! I could kick myself in the ass for not falling into them much sooner!!! THANK YOU TICK!!!! If the co-workers and family are over with the kids for a dinner and some chit-chat - - PT will be nice. Tick, Metaldad, T & me at one of our parties - - DREAM THEATER!!!!! Hells Yeah!!! Hare

[LoneStar Boogie]

QUOTE (tick @ Aug 6 2008, 06:55 AM)

QUOTE (LoneStar Boogie @ Aug 5 2008, 10:56 PM) QUOTE (tick @ Aug 5 2008, 10:24 PM) QUOTE (LoneStar Boogie @ Aug 5 2008, 10:20 PM) QUOTE (tick @ Aug 5 2008, 10:17 PM) Your opinions are all fine. Heres a fact. If these two bands perform together, Dream Theater is the headliner, Porcupine Tree is the opening act. Fact ! Ahhh buuut but but, zip it ! Fact ! Fact: Who opens and who headlines has no bearing on who is better. Says who ? You ?   It does say who has the larger fan base. I hate having to take sides on this one, but Dream Theater deserves way more respect then most on this forum give them.   So defend the great artists I will !!! Larger fan base doesn't mean better, either, does it? Always use the data that makes your arguement work best for you at the time your making it.   At least you admit it!

[LoneStar Boogie]

QUOTE (Gompers @ Aug 6 2008, 08:29 AM)

QUOTE (LoneStar Boogie @ Aug 5 2008, 10:56 PM) QUOTE (tick @ Aug 5 2008, 10:24 PM) QUOTE (LoneStar Boogie @ Aug 5 2008, 10:20 PM) QUOTE (tick @ Aug 5 2008, 10:17 PM) Your opinions are all fine. Heres a fact. If these two bands perform together, Dream Theater is the headliner, Porcupine Tree is the opening act. Fact ! Ahhh buuut but but, zip it ! Fact ! Fact: Who opens and who headlines has no bearing on who is better. Says who ? You ?   It does say who has the larger fan base. I hate having to take sides on this one, but Dream Theater deserves way more respect then most on this forum give them.   So defend the great artists I will !!! Larger fan base doesn't mean better, either, does it? Well Madonna is such a great artist and blows away DT.   Clearly!

[Mariella]

QUOTE (The Owl @ Aug 6 2008, 06:21 PM)

^^^^^^ TROLL ALERT!

Pourquoi?

 

Because I wasn't bothered about giving in depth critique of why DT are better than PT?

 

Both bands do have poor singers. Wilson has a very whiny, anaemic voice, and whilst Mr Cheese can perform in the studio, he ain't that good live.

 

Also I just happen to love lots of guitar wankery, and DT beat PT hands down on that

[raygun47]

QUOTE (Mariella @ Aug 7 2008, 07:30 AM)

QUOTE (The Owl @ Aug 6 2008, 06:21 PM) ^^^^^^ TROLL ALERT! Pourquoi?   Because I wasn't bothered about giving in depth critique of why DT are better than PT?   Both bands do have poor singers. Wilson has a very whiny, anaemic voice, and whilst Mr Cheese can perform in the studio, he ain't that good live.   Also I just happen to love lots of guitar wankery, and DT beat PT hands down on that James wasn't great live for some time...but he's turned that corner for sure. He's improved vastly. Wilson isn't the quintessential vocalist, but I think he works well with his own music.   Guitar? John Petrucci, baby. One of the best 3 or 4 guitarists in the world....THE WORLD!

[metaldad]

QUOTE (raygun47 @ Aug 7 2008, 07:48 AM)

QUOTE (Mariella @ Aug 7 2008, 07:30 AM) QUOTE (The Owl @ Aug 6 2008, 06:21 PM) ^^^^^^ TROLL ALERT! Pourquoi?   Because I wasn't bothered about giving in depth critique of why DT are better than PT?   Both bands do have poor singers. Wilson has a very whiny, anaemic voice, and whilst Mr Cheese can perform in the studio, he ain't that good live.   Also I just happen to love lots of guitar wankery, and DT beat PT hands down on that James wasn't great live for some time...but he's turned that corner for sure. He's improved vastly. Wilson isn't the quintessential vocalist, but I think he works well with his own music.   Guitar? John Petrucci, baby. One of the best 3 or 4 guitarists in the world....THE WORLD! let's not discuss drummers , i don't even want to hear it some fights just don't end. m.p. and g.h. are great. no more of this

Edited August 7, 2008 by metaldad

[Gompers]

QUOTE (raygun47 @ Aug 7 2008, 08:48 AM)

QUOTE (Mariella @ Aug 7 2008, 07:30 AM) QUOTE (The Owl @ Aug 6 2008, 06:21 PM) ^^^^^^ TROLL ALERT! Pourquoi?   Because I wasn't bothered about giving in depth critique of why DT are better than PT?   Both bands do have poor singers. Wilson has a very whiny, anaemic voice, and whilst Mr Cheese can perform in the studio, he ain't that good live.   Also I just happen to love lots of guitar wankery, and DT beat PT hands down on that James wasn't great live for some time...but he's turned that corner for sure. He's improved vastly. Wilson isn't the quintessential vocalist, but I think he works well with his own music.   Guitar? John Petrucci, baby. One of the best 3 or 4 guitarists in the world....THE WORLD! Tangent comment: Must add Michael Romeo to that list if he is not.

[TwoOneOneTwo]

I prefer PT; I find it more listenable, with (at least) some feel to it.

 

I just cannot get into DT. I listened, I watched, I walked away. IMHO, it's a soulless, derivative wankfest, and Portnoy sounds like:

 

a.) six pairs of Doc Martens in an industrial clothes dryer set on High, and/or...

 

b.)...both sets of someone's grandparents falling down twenty-two flights of stairs.

 

Again, JMHO....

[Wilderness_of_Mirrors]

i agree with the majority on this

 

PORCUPINE TREE

 

 

 

[grand phil-nale]

Porcupine Tree for sure.

 

DT has not put out anything remotely interesting in years. In recent you get Muse rip offs, more vaudeville piano, and vocals by an ego inflated drummer that are so bad (Dark Eternal Night a good example), you start to wonder why no one else in the band speaks up.

 

Porcupine Tree started out as a solo experiment of Wilson's. The first few albums are out there, and would not be everybody's cup of tea, but everything from '95s The Sky Moves Sideways to current are all great albums that I highly recommend.

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (raygun47 @ Aug 7 2008, 08:48 AM)

QUOTE (Mariella @ Aug 7 2008, 07:30 AM) QUOTE (The Owl @ Aug 6 2008, 06:21 PM) ^^^^^^ TROLL ALERT! Pourquoi?   Because I wasn't bothered about giving in depth critique of why DT are better than PT?   Both bands do have poor singers. Wilson has a very whiny, anaemic voice, and whilst Mr Cheese can perform in the studio, he ain't that good live.   Also I just happen to love lots of guitar wankery, and DT beat PT hands down on that James wasn't great live for some time...but he's turned that corner for sure. He's improved vastly. Wilson isn't the quintessential vocalist, but I think he works well with his own music.   Guitar? John Petrucci, baby. One of the best 3 or 4 guitarists in the world....THE WORLD! Wilson isn't a great singer but his voice fits well within the band. Ozzy has a horrid voice but it worked with Sabbath. Labrie tries too damn hard imo.

[Gompers]

Interesting vote count right now

PT = 21

DT = 12

Edited August 8, 2008 by Gompers

[KenJennings]

Dream Theater are far superior musicians, as well as far superior songwriters.

 

I don't understand the PT hype, they're a pretty dull band if you ask me. Dream Theater's music (aside from being much more technically interesting) just has more vim, vigor, and spirit.

 

I also can't handle Stephen Wilson's vocals. Blech...

[moltenlava]

QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Aug 7 2008, 05:36 PM)

DT has not put out anything remotely interesting in years.

You probably stopped listening to them long ago. I think the absolute best examples of songwriting in the DT catalog are on two recent recordings. Train of Thought (2003) and Octavarium (2005). And, I've been listening very, very intently to PT's body of work, so I'm just as qualified to compare them as anyone else who knows both groups inside and out. And, I see absolutely no difference in the 'quality' of songwriting between any of the three 'big guns' of Progressive Rock/Metal. Those being: Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree and Opeth. All three are on the absolute top of their game this decade. The only paramater that DT stands above the other two is on the musicianship. And, this says a lot because both PT and Opeth are really great bands....Word from Wilson is that there will sometime in the next year or two be a collaboration of members of all three outfits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RealAir]

PT for me. They just have it.

[RealAir]

QUOTE (moltenlava @ Aug 8 2008, 10:02 PM)

Word from Wilson is that there will sometime in the next year or two be a collaboration of members of all three outfits.

YEEEEESSS!!!!!!

 

I would give my left kidney to see this!

Edited August 8, 2008 by RealAir

[grand phil-nale]

QUOTE (moltenlava @ Aug 8 2008, 04:02 PM)

QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Aug 7 2008, 05:36 PM) DT has not put out anything remotely interesting in years. You probably stopped listening to them long ago. I think the absolute best examples of songwriting in the DT catalog are on two recent recordings. Train of Thought (2003) and Octavarium (2005). And, I've been listening very, very intently to PT's body of work, so I'm just as qualified to compare them as anyone else who knows both groups inside and out. And, I see absolutely no difference in the 'quality' of songwriting between any of the three 'big guns' of Progressive Rock/Metal. Those being: Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree and Opeth. All three are on the absolute top of their game this decade. The only paramater that DT stands above the other two is on the musicianship. And, this says a lot because both PT and Opeth are really great bands....Word from Wilson is that there will sometime in the next year or two be a collaboration of members of all three outfits. Got all the DT albums. I have to listen to an entire album before I make any judgements. DT is stuck in a major rut, and are in real need of a producer, but sadly Portnoy's ego will never let that happen.

[The O' Sullivan Factor]

DT, they can write lyrics that don't suck from time to time . I actually quite like Train of Thought

[moltenlava]

QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Aug 8 2008, 04:57 PM)

Got all the DT albums. I have to listen to an entire album before I make any judgements. DT is stuck in a major rut, and are in real need of a producer, but sadly Portnoy's ego will never let that happen.

Well, I guess the follow-up question would be....Why do you keep on picking them up? If you don't think they've done anything interesting in years, then why do keep on listening? You say that you have all the albums. I usually don't purchase discs for bands that I think aren't doing something exciting.

 

Two out of the last four DT albums have been alright. I'll give the detractors that. Six Degrees and Systematic Chaos aren't consistent releases. But, ya gotta think, these DT albums are like 70+ minutes long. And, the average piece is what, 10 to 12 minutes long? So, even on alright album, if you walk away with two or three pieces that you dig, you're still a winner. But, the other two releases this decade were better than just alright. Train of Thought and Octavarium were damn solid.

[The Owl]

One area where I think DT is making mistakes is and where they're getting alot of flac from is the Constant jumping back and fourth with the focus of the style of the music on their albums.

 

DT is classified as you know as progressive metal, but I don't think they've yet settled on a happy medium that would satisify the tastes of their fans who enjoy the Progressive side of DT (Like Me), and the fans who enjoy the heavier Metal side of DT.

 

Scenes from a Memory was more on the Prog side

SDoiT also leaned heavily towards the Prog side

ToT: Leaned really heavily on the Metal side

Octavarium: Prog

SC: Metal

 

I have enjoyed all the albums including the Metal heavy albums, but I have to mention that I enjoy the Prog heavy albums more than the Metal heavy albums. I think if they find the medium between the two generas they will be able to satisfy their two groups of fans.

[grand phil-nale]

QUOTE (moltenlava @ Aug 8 2008, 09:24 PM)

QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Aug 8 2008, 04:57 PM) Got all the DT albums. I have to listen to an entire album before I make any judgements. DT is stuck in a major rut, and are in real need of a producer, but sadly Portnoy's ego will never let that happen. Well, I guess the follow-up question would be....Why do you keep on picking them up? If you don't think they've done anything interesting in years, then why do keep on listening? You say that you have all the albums. I usually don't purchase discs for bands that I think aren't doing something exciting.   Two out of the last four DT albums have been alright. I'll give the detractors that. Six Degrees and Systematic Chaos aren't consistent releases. But, ya gotta think, these DT albums are like 70+ minutes long. And, the average piece is what, 10 to 12 minutes long? So, even on alright album, if you walk away with two or three pieces that you dig, you're still a winner. But, the other two releases this decade were better than just alright. Train of Thought and Octavarium were damn solid. I think I'm finished. Done the same thing with others bands in the past. With Queensryche my ending point was Tribe. After the brilliance of Promised Land, it was saddening to hear HITNF, Q2K and Tribe. It's the same with Scenes and all the DT albums that have followed it.

[moltenlava]

QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Aug 9 2008, 01:48 AM)

QUOTE (moltenlava @ Aug 8 2008, 09:24 PM) QUOTE (grand phil-nale @ Aug 8 2008, 04:57 PM) Got all the DT albums. I have to listen to an entire album before I make any judgements. DT is stuck in a major rut, and are in real need of a producer, but sadly Portnoy's ego will never let that happen. Well, I guess the follow-up question would be....Why do you keep on picking them up? If you don't think they've done anything interesting in years, then why do keep on listening? You say that you have all the albums. I usually don't purchase discs for bands that I think aren't doing something exciting.   Two out of the last four DT albums have been alright. I'll give the detractors that. Six Degrees and Systematic Chaos aren't consistent releases. But, ya gotta think, these DT albums are like 70+ minutes long. And, the average piece is what, 10 to 12 minutes long? So, even on alright album, if you walk away with two or three pieces that you dig, you're still a winner. But, the other two releases this decade were better than just alright. Train of Thought and Octavarium were damn solid. I think I'm finished. Done the same thing with others bands in the past. With Queensryche my ending point was Tribe. After the brilliance of Promised Land, it was saddening to hear HITNF, Q2K and Tribe. It's the same with Scenes and all the DT albums that have followed it. Ahaha. lol. I'm with you on the Queensryche assessment. I am a HUGE fan of things like the EP, Rage For Order and Mindcrime. Was also big on Empire and Promised Land as wel. But, then I made the mistake of picking up Trying to Fit in the Now, and what a joke. I gave up then....But, failing to pick up Mindcrime 2 would be yet another mistake. The core of that album is phenomenal. You get rid of the ultra weak opening and closing of that album and focus on just tracks 4 through 10 and you have something that is almost as intense as the original. Brilliant core to that album. So, that got me amped to look at the other things like Q2k and Tribe. Got Tribe and its nothing like OM2. Significantly weaker. OM2 is a must for the longtime fan.

[grand phil-nale]

Have heard OM2, and it was an attempt to recatch a past glory. Plus most of it is filler, which is nowhere to be found on the original. Just my opinions though. I know some say that the story on the original wasn't finished, so they needed a part 2 -- I disagree. The story ends in tragedy, much like 2112. Both individuals fail in their attempts, which should convey to the listener (or reader) the one element they both struggled against. Which was big government, a higher ruling class -- whatever you want to call it. Sort of like Shakespeare stories, but from the perspective of the opposite social class.

[Texas King]

Dream Theater by a country mile for me.

 

I just don't get the big love for PT. They are really over-loved.

[J2112YYZ]

Dream Theater by a country mile for me.

 

I just don't get the big love for PT. They are really over-loved.

 

I don't think I had even heard of Porcupine Tree until I joined this forum.