RIP, Coach Knight, 83

[laughedatbytime]

Three time NCAA champion and controversial coach passes away at 83.

 

[Principled Man]

Comments on his obit at The Washington Post were shut down after about 30 minutes.  I was surprised that they were allowed at all.  
 

He passed away, but did he find peace?  We may never know.  

Edited November 1, 2023 by Principled Man

[BastillePark]

He was a helluva coach who didn't know when to keep his mouth shut and said some very terrible things in the process. 

[Nova Carmina]

Tomorrow I'll throw a chair in his memory. 

[laughedatbytime]

19 minutes ago, Principled Man said:

Comments on his obit at The Washington Post were shut down after about 30 minutes.  I was surprised that they were allowed at all.  
 

He passed away, but did he find peace?  We may never know.  

He reconciled with Indiana and his players in the last three years or so, so while you can never be sure, chances are good that he did (which, quite frankly, I didn't think would ever happen.)

[BastillePark]

3 minutes ago, Nova Carmina said:

Tomorrow I'll throw a chair in his memory. 

Did you happen to see him on Letterman's show when he explained why he did that?

[Principled Man]

3 minutes ago, laughedatbytime said:

He reconciled with Indiana and his players in the last three years or so, so while you can never be sure, chances are good that he did (which, quite frankly, I didn't think would ever happen.)

Finding peace not just with the U of I, but with everyone - especially himself.  Did he reconcile with his conscience?  Did he confess his sins (to himself)?  Or was his ego so dominant that he met his end still defiant and prideful?

[laughedatbytime]

7 minutes ago, Principled Man said:

Finding peace not just with the U of I, but with everyone - especially himself.  Did he reconcile with his conscience?  Did he confess his sins (to himself)?  Or was his ego so dominant that he met his end still defiant and prideful?

Of that, I'm not sure.  From what I saw, it seemed more like letting go of grudges than introspection/condemnation of his own issues.

[goose]

I wonder of they'll bury him face down like he requested.  

 

A great coach, and one I admired for a long time.  Got to see him present a few times at coaching clinics, and he was always entertaining.

 

[Nova Carmina]

2 hours ago, BastillePark said:

Did you happen to see him on Letterman's show when he explained why he did that?

 

No, I never saw that. What was the gist of the explanation? Bobby Knight was the last of a breed, wasn't he?

[BastillePark]

30 minutes ago, Nova Carmina said:

 

No, I never saw that. What was the gist of the explanation? Bobby Knight was the last of a breed, wasn't he?

He showed a picture of an older woman across the floor and he said she kept asking for a different chair and he was just providing her one. And yes he was one of a kind. Go to about the 10 min mark. I was a little off but it's been a minute.

 

https://youtu.be/RIh3hyFFqAQ?si=ZmFsOwjM3E-8w5Dn

Edited November 2, 2023 by BastillePark

[laughedatbytime]

On 11/1/2023 at 8:32 PM, goose said:

I wonder of they'll bury him face down like he requested.  

 

A great coach, and one I admired for a long time.  Got to see him present a few times at coaching clinics, and he was always entertaining.

 

Good article on the man and his genius and flaws.

 

https://www.eamonnbrennan.com/p/bob-knight-was-my-dad

[laughedatbytime]

Another article worth reading.

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2023/11/02/iu-basketball-bobby-knights-positive-impact-widely-unknown/70466767007/?fbclid=IwAR1dEr4TLUZir94eTrJqWAJx8_aoHUGrMcioVENSM5Y11HDe3wDaOiHTYsQ

[Rick N. Backer]

If you think you hate him, I recommend you read A Season on the Brink.  There's a reason why so many people who played for him loved him.  He tried to make sure the kid who only got into Indiana because of his basketball skills understood he needed to graduate.  If you made it through his program and weren't good enough for the NBA (and there were A LOT of such kids, which tells you something about his ability to coach them up), he tried to help you get a job.  And the anecdote of him calling his son Pat from the road about Pat's high school basketball game is one of my favorite stories about a public figure I've ever read.  In short, Pat told Bobby that he played well in every aspect of his game, and Bobby told him no one does that.

[Principled Man]

1 hour ago, Rick N. Backer said:

If you think you hate him, ....

 

Thanks to the Cult of Celebrity, people frequently say that they hate certain famous sports people, even though they have never met them and know next to nothing about them.  

 

People can be like trained rats.  They're conditioned by sports media and the Cult of Celebrity to say that they hate Bob Knight, or Pete Rose, or Jim Harbaugh, or the latest Villain of The Day, but that hatred is so superficial and artificial.  Hate is such a popular word, though.  People love to use it, even though they don't really mean it.

 

If you think you hate Bob Knight, ask yourself why you hate him.  Has he harmed you personally, or are you just riding the Cult of Celebrity bandwagon?  

[BastillePark]

45 minutes ago, Principled Man said:

 

Thanks to the Cult of Celebrity, people frequently say that they hate certain famous sports people, even though they have never met them and know next to nothing about them.  

 

People can be like trained rats.  They're conditioned by sports media and the Cult of Celebrity to say that they hate Bob Knight, or Pete Rose, or Jim Harbaugh, or the latest Villain of The Day, but that hatred is so superficial and artificial.  Hate is such a popular word, though.  People love to use it, even though they don't really mean it.

 

If you think you hate Bob Knight, ask yourself why you hate him.  Has he harmed you personally, or are you just riding the Cult of Celebrity bandwagon?  

"Hate" is a very strong word that is thrown around like "hero" these days and people don't understand what they really mean. Knight may have been a great coach and a good person for some of his team members but he also said, ”I think if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.”  Good people don't generally say things like that.

 

 

[laughedatbytime]

1 hour ago, BastillePark said:

"Hate" is a very strong word that is thrown around like "hero" these days and people don't understand what they really mean. Knight may have been a great coach and a good person for some of his team members but he also said, ”I think if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.”  Good people don't generally say things like that.

 

 

Have you ever looked at the context of that quote?

 

Look to see what happened with Sherron Wilkerson and compare that to what the majority of coaches tolerate from their players...actions speak louder than (particularly poorly chosen) words.

Edited November 4, 2023 by laughedatbytime
Speling errer

[BastillePark]

2 hours ago, laughedatbytime said:

Have you ever looked at the context of that quote?

 

Look to see what happened with Sherron Wilkerson and compare that to what the majority of coaches tolerate from their players...actions speak louder than (particularly poorly chosen) words.

You're right, actions speak louder than words and before Wilkerson was kicked off the team, Knight used the action of head butting to get his point across. He claims it was an accident. Regarding the his rape comment he said “That’s just an old term that you’re going to use. The plane’s down, so you have no control over it. I’m not talking about the act of rape. Don’t misinterpret me. But what I’m talking about is something happens to you, so you have to handle it--now.” and in a later interview said “The word rape can be used in several ways. One is in something that has gone out of control or over which you have no control. It obviously was in that context that I was using the word, as I explained in the interview.” (emphasis is mine)

 

Don't get me wrong I'm taking nothing away from his coaching skills but I've read a lot of fawning about him since his passing but as usual, there's more to the story. 

[laughedatbytime]

6 minutes ago, BastillePark said:

You're right, actions speak louder than words and before Wilkerson was kicked off the team, Knight used the action of head butting to get his point across. He claims it was an accident. Regarding the his rape comment he said “That’s just an old term that you’re going to use. The plane’s down, so you have no control over it. I’m not talking about the act of rape. Don’t misinterpret me. But what I’m talking about is something happens to you, so you have to handle it--now.” and in a later interview said “The word rape can be used in several ways. One is in something that has gone out of control or over which you have no control. It obviously was in that context that I was using the word, as I explained in the interview.” (emphasis is mine)

 

Don't get me wrong I'm taking nothing away from his coaching skills but I've read a lot of fawning about him since his passing but as usual, there's more to the story. 

The head butting was pretty obviously an accident, he slipped, and it had nothing to do with the sexual assault perpetrated by Wilkerson.  I know it seems as if I'm coming off as an apologist for him, but that's not the case; there are plenty of other things he did, or reported that he did, that are not excusable and worth excoriating him for.  (One of these was throwing vases in the presence of the AD's secretaries.).  I personally, if I had the talent to do so, couldn't play for him, nor would I want my son to (under the same circumstances).   He was an asshole to a lot of people over the slightest of personal slights, for long periods of time, or even for life.

 

But for a lot of kids, like Mike Woodson and Isiah Thomas, among others, they benefitted from his approach, and said he changed the entire course of their lives.  There was a lot of good, and a lot of bad with him,; I think the good outweighed the bad, but a good faith argument could be made the other way.   I'm  just saying, don't believe everything you read in the media (the generic you, not you individually, necessarily) when some have a vested interest in portraying him, or anyone else, a certain way, oft times out of personal malice.

 

After someone's death, unless someone is a murderer or a rapist or did something else heinous, out of respect to those who loved and admired someone, their positive traits are, and in my opinion should be, emphasized.  At the very least, at that time, bringing up the bad there should be, again in my opinion, in the immediate aftermath, A moratorium on criticism for anyone short of those who commit atrocities.

[goose]

5 hours ago, BastillePark said:

Good people don't generally say things like that.

 

 

Yes they do.  All the time. That's because they're human and are at times less than perfect in chosing their words. Thankfully, most good people don't have to worried about every off-hand remark being recorded and used against them.