Union is good, a middle-of-the-pack Yes album

[Cyclonus X-1]

Forget about the album's sordid reputation and absurd backstory. Forget about the band members themselves disliking it and Wakeman calling it Onion. Forget that session players, hired guns, and studio janitors played just as much of the music as the actual Yes guys. Union is a good album simply because it has plenty of good songs, including

 

Miracle of Life

I Would Have Waited Forever

Masquerade

Shock to the System

Holding On

Lift Me Up

Saving My Heart

Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day

The More We Live--Let Go

Give & Take (bonus track)

 

It easily defeats a number of other Yes albums (many of which are good/decent), including

 

Yes

Time and a Word

Tales from Topographic Oceans

Tormato

Drama

Open Your Eyes

Magnification

the most recent one that completely sucked ass

 

I think too many people are worried about what they're "supposed to" like. "Hardcore" fans aren't "supposed to" like albums like Union, Priest's Turbo, Tull's A, and Amon Duul II's Only Human, so these quality records are constantly being slighted. Personally, I'd rather hear some good songs than worry about what other fans think of an album.

 

That's not to say that all of Union's songs are good (Angkor Wat is a dud). And I'm not putting it on Close to the Edge's level or anything--I wouldn't claim it's some sort of remarkable artistic triumph, and it probably won't provide an emotional or life-changing experience for anyone. But it might provide some nice riffs and melodies and quite a few enjoyable tunes--if given a chance.

[Segue Myles]

I am willing to accept it might be good, but I can't see it being better than anything from the seventies.

 

I swear I must be listening to Tales wrong...I think it's perfection...

 

YAY FOR UNDERRATED YES ALBUMS CYCLONUS!

 

I am willing to try Union again.

[Blue J]

Because of my age and inexperience with Yes at the time, Union was the first Yes album I ever bought. It was released when I was 18, and I bought it when it was fairly new. I'd heard some Yes on the radio (classic The Yes Album/Fragile era), so I have it a shot. It's totally different from their classic period, of course. But I've never thought that it's a terrible record.

[Your_Lion]

At first I thought this was a thread about Union 5-3992 being a good, middle-of-the-pack TRF member

[Cyclonus X-1]

I swear I must be listening to Tales wrong...I think it's perfection...

 

I like Tales, especially The Remembering, but I agree with what Wakeman said about it having some beautiful parts but too much padding--the padding for me being sections that I find repetitive or uninteresting.

 

Because of my age and inexperience with Yes at the time, Union was the first Yes album I ever bought. It was released when I was 18, and I bought it when it was fairly new. I'd heard some Yes on the radio (classic The Yes Album/Fragile era), so I have it a shot. It's totally different from their classic period, of course. But I've never thought that it's a terrible record.

 

It isn't often that I hear about someone's first (owned) Yes album being Union. That's awesome.

[Your_Lion]

I think too many people are worried about what they're "supposed to" like. "Hardcore" fans aren't "supposed to" like albums like Union, Priest's Turbo, Tull's A,

Agreed! Both Turbo and A are awesome!!! And popular opinion won't change my mind Edited December 11, 2015 by Your_Lion

[Blue J]

I think too many people are worried about what they're "supposed to" like. "Hardcore" fans aren't "supposed to" like albums like Union, Priest's Turbo, Tull's A,

Agreed! Both Turbo and A are awesome!!! And popular opinion won't change my mind

 

I like Turbo...I've still never heard A.

[Relayer2112]

Union is a horrible piece of worm infested donkey dung. I can imagine the conversation at a 1990 "Yes" team meeting "Hey guys, we've got two separate albums worth of shit which no one will buy. How about we put it all together and slap the Yes name on it so we can cut our losses. After that, we can tour as one big happy family and make some more dough before we admit we can't stand each other."

 

The only thing decent they've done since "Drama" is Keys to Ascension 2. That's the closest they've come to capturing the old magic since 1980.

[Your_Lion]

I think too many people are worried about what they're "supposed to" like. "Hardcore" fans aren't "supposed to" like albums like Union, Priest's Turbo, Tull's A,

Agreed! Both Turbo and A are awesome!!! And popular opinion won't change my mind

 

I like Turbo...I've still never heard A.

A was a bit of a change of direction, because it was originaly intended to be an Ian Anderson solo album. It was more "electronic" than what Tull had previously done. It just also happended to have Martin Barre playing guitar on it. So the record company said "We'll release it...but as the next Tull album."

 

The only down side is that all the Tull members who didn't play on it: Barrymore barlow, John Evan, David palmer, were effectively out of the band.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Your_Lion

[Blue J]

I think too many people are worried about what they're "supposed to" like. "Hardcore" fans aren't "supposed to" like albums like Union, Priest's Turbo, Tull's A,

Agreed! Both Turbo and A are awesome!!! And popular opinion won't change my mind

 

I like Turbo...I've still never heard A.

A was a bit of a change of direction, because it was originaly intended to be an Ian Anderson solo album. It was more "electronic" than what Tull had previously done. It just also happended to have Martin Barre playing guitar on it. So the record company said "We'll release it...but as the next Tull album."

 

The only down side is that all the Tull members who didn't play on it: Barrymore barlow, John Evan, David palmer, were effectively out of the band.

 

Interesting; I didn't know that. I'll have to pick it up at some point.

 

There's more Tull that I've still not heard at this point, though- notably Stormwatch and Broadsword and the Beast.

[Cyclonus X-1]

I think too many people are worried about what they're "supposed to" like. "Hardcore" fans aren't "supposed to" like albums like Union, Priest's Turbo, Tull's A,

Agreed! Both Turbo and A are awesome!!! And popular opinion won't change my mind

 

I like Turbo...I've still never heard A.

A was a bit of a change of direction, because it was originaly intended to be an Ian Anderson solo album. It was more "electronic" than what Tull had previously done. It just also happended to have Martin Barre playing guitar on it. So the record company said "We'll release it...but as the next Tull album."

 

The only down side is that all the Tull members who didn't play on it: Barrymore barlow, John Evan, David palmer, were effectively out of the band.

 

Yeah, similar in a way to Union, A has a bit of a ridiculous backstory (A's story involving all of those band members basically being let go at once). Its backstory combined with it being a quirky, electronics-heavy album unlike anything Tull had ever done before make it a pretty easy target for mockery and criticism.

 

It took me a little bit of time to get used to the quirky "A sound," but once I did, I found all of the songs to be enjoyable, and it has what I consider to be one of Tull's best tunes, Fylingdale Flyer.

[Relayer2112]

I think too many people are worried about what they're "supposed to" like. "Hardcore" fans aren't "supposed to" like albums like Union, Priest's Turbo, Tull's A,

Agreed! Both Turbo and A are awesome!!! And popular opinion won't change my mind

 

I like Turbo...I've still never heard A.

A was a bit of a change of direction, because it was originaly intended to be an Ian Anderson solo album. It was more "electronic" than what Tull had previously done. It just also happended to have Martin Barre playing guitar on it. So the record company said "We'll release it...but as the next Tull album."

 

The only down side is that all the Tull members who didn't play on it: Barrymore barlow, John Evan, David palmer, were effectively out of the band.

 

Interesting; I didn't know that. I'll have to pick it up at some point.

 

There's more Tull that I've still not heard at this point, though- notably Stormwatch and Broadsword and the Beast.

 

I think Broadsword is the perfect blend of keyboard and acoustic instruments (the keyboards took over completely for Under Wraps) and Stormwatch is not bad. "A" should have stayed an Ian solo album as there is too much on it that doesn't sound Tullish to me.

[Your_Lion]

I think too many people are worried about what they're "supposed to" like. "Hardcore" fans aren't "supposed to" like albums like Union, Priest's Turbo, Tull's A,

Agreed! Both Turbo and A are awesome!!! And popular opinion won't change my mind

 

I like Turbo...I've still never heard A.

A was a bit of a change of direction, because it was originaly intended to be an Ian Anderson solo album. It was more "electronic" than what Tull had previously done. It just also happended to have Martin Barre playing guitar on it. So the record company said "We'll release it...but as the next Tull album."

 

The only down side is that all the Tull members who didn't play on it: Barrymore barlow, John Evan, David palmer, were effectively out of the band.

 

Interesting; I didn't know that. I'll have to pick it up at some point.

 

There's more Tull that I've still not heard at this point, though- notably Stormwatch and Broadsword and the Beast.

Stormwatch is one of my favourites

[Red Dwarf]

Imho,Union is an ok album at best.It didn't deserve the hammering it received in the years since its release,but it's still a relatively poor set.

A far better album is the Anderson Bruford Wakeman and Howe self -titled record that was released two years before Union in

1989!

[Relayer2112]

Imho,Union is an ok album at best.It didn't deserve the hammering it received in the years since its release,but it's still a relatively poor set.

A far better album is the Anderson Bruford Wakeman and Howe self -titled record that was released two years before Union in

1989!

 

I think the problem with a lot of the later Yes stuff (and ABWH stuff) is that they let Anderson have too much control. My guess is that he's the only one who had the energy/ambition to want to take the lead on many of those later projects. The other guys were simply "along for the ride...and money". Even though I don't dislike ABWH...there's plenty of cringe-worthy stuff on that record. A shit-ton of cringe-worthy stuff on Union.

[bluefox4000]

Union is a great idea on paper but it's really 7 or 8 yes members with no good ideas between them. awful.

 

Mick

[Verena]

While I listened to Union for the first time, I felt it as positive music. It's like something shining bright and that harmonizes somewhere.

 

Really beautiful songs. :)

[Union 5-3992]

Union is a horrible piece of worm infested donkey dung.

That should be my new member title

[Digital Dad]

Union is pretty bad but its better than anything that came after. Except Fly From Here which I always thought was decent. Its nowhere near the classic stuff but Shock and Lift are amazin tunes.

 

As for Tulls A I really like but shock horror I absolutely love Under Wraps. Top 10 Tull album for me. I think that after Glascock died the steam ran out and theh put out the half hearted Stormeatch album. Things had to change after that and Barlow has pretty much said he was done by then.

[treeduck]

I got it when it came out back in 1991 and I've always liked it but then I'm not a hardcore Yes maniac. I'm a little more relaxed about the whole thing and i just listen to the music I don't get caught up in perceptions concerning line-ups, eras etc, I'm not biased one way or the other.

[Blue J]

I got it when it came out back in 1991 and I've always liked it but then I'm not a hardcore Yes maniac. I'm a little more relaxed about the whole thing and i just listen to the music I don't get caught up in perceptions concerning line-ups, eras etc, I'm not biased one way or the other.

 

That was me, too, when I first heard it.

 

In fact, I didn't know there was such a big to-do about it until I saw some posts about it on TRF.

[Segue Myles]

Treeduck sounds like me...if its good it is good!

 

Like when people say Yes cannot be Yes without Jon Anderson.

 

Well, sorry, but Drama sounds more like Yes than any of the other eighties albums, and Kansas ruled with Drastic Measures!

 

Union sounds like Yes. Just not really into it (but I will try it again).

[Cyclonus X-1]

While I listened to Union for the first time, I felt it as positive music. It's like something shining bright and that harmonizes somewhere.

 

Really beautiful songs. :)

 

I think this is a really wonderful way of describing it. There are lots of beautiful, uplifting passages on Union. I think Trevor Rabin can't help but write uplifting songs. The stuff he contributed to Union is fantastic. As for the material from the other camp, it's amazing that so much of it sounds so positive considering the miserable state of the group at the time--but then again, maybe that's why it's a good thing that so many other people played on the record. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if composing and playing positive music was at least in part a way of avoiding being dragged down into the ABWH quagmire.

 

If anyone is interesting in reading about the awful state of the ABWH faction at the time, I highly, highly recommend these two interviews. You might be shocked to learn just how bad things were. The first is with the producer of Union, Jonathan Elias.

 

http://www.bondegezo...jeinterview.htm

 

And this next one is with Jimmy Haun, who did a lot of guitar work for the album. I think he expresses a very sensible outlook on the whole thing when he talks about the record being "palatable" and a lot of the dissatisfaction revolving more around politics than around music.

 

http://zenponies.com...feb/feb_01.html

[Cyclonus X-1]

As for Tulls A I really like but shock horror I absolutely love Under Wraps. Top 10 Tull album for me.

 

I wouldn't put it in my Tull top ten, but I like Under Wraps. I consider at least two-thirds of the songs on there to be quite good. Unfortunately, the synths sound horribly dated, and the drum machines are kind of annoying. But Ian's vocals are fantastic, and there are plenty of catchy melodies.

 

I think that after Glascock died the steam ran out and theh put out the half hearted Stormeatch album.

 

Stormwatch doesn't sound halfhearted to me at all. Lots of great songs on there with plenty of heart/energy--Old Ghosts, Something's on the Move, North Sea Oil, Orion, Dun Ringill, etc.

[Cyclonus X-1]

I got it when it came out back in 1991 and I've always liked it but then I'm not a hardcore Yes maniac. I'm a little more relaxed about the whole thing and i just listen to the music I don't get caught up in perceptions concerning line-ups, eras etc, I'm not biased one way or the other.

 

That was me, too, when I first heard it.

 

In fact, I didn't know there was such a big to-do about it until I saw some posts about it on TRF.

 

I knew about its reputation and backstory before listening to it. In fact, I wasn't sure I was ever going to bother with it due to what I'd heard about it. treeduck was the first person I ever heard speak positively about it (I'm glad he did), and I decided to give it a chance based on what he'd said (I'm glad I did).

 

I guess that kind of sums up the hope behind this thread. If people take the songs as they are and dislike them, that's one thing. But I'd hope they'd listen to those songs with "open ears" rather than deciding on their quality beforehand based on the album's reputation and backstory.