Why was Signals "the end" for some of you?

[troutman]

404-ed, Although I got into the band earlier than you, I also do not like the RTB/Presto/T4E crap. I suggest to just ignore it all and concentrate on the albums you do like.

 

You didn't mention having Hemispheres or A Farewell to Kings—have you heard them? If not, GO OUT AND BUY THEM RIGHT NOW, You're in for a treat :D

I am hoping you have ATWAS as well..... :codger: :D

 

If Not,

 

:bang bang: :bang bang: :bang bang:

 

:D

[Segue Myles]

I think one thing that hurts the CD era material (meaning that CDs had eclipsed LPs as the primary medium, basically starting with Power Windows as I recall) is that the albums got longer and longer, and so did the filler. 2112 through PeW all came in under 39 minutes. Moving Pictures just hit 40. By HYF they were up to 50 minutes and the last three average at about 65 minutes. VT at 67 and CA at 66 minutes are each nearly twice PeW's 35:35 length.

 

No doubt other factors are more important to the difference (like the departure of Terry Brown), but I wonder how good of an album Rush might make now if they only had to fill a 38 minute play length like the old days.

 

We keep saying Rush were not as good without Terry Brown, but p/g through to HYF are arguably better produced and more interesting albums! Had they carried on with TB I am certain we would be saying "they should have let go of him sooner and tried something else".

 

Seriously, Terry and Rush worked perfectly well together when they were into the same thing, but Rush made superior albums to Signals, I am certain because they made the right decision to move on!

[Rutlefan]

"We keep saying Rush were not as good without Terry Brown, but p/g through to HYF are arguably better produced and more interesting albums! "

 

Yes, "arguably," and I would certainly argue the other side! :D

[x1yyz]

"We keep saying Rush were not as good without Terry Brown, but p/g through to HYF are arguably better produced and more interesting albums! "

 

Yes, "arguably," and I would certainly argue the other side! :D

 

I was about to write the same thing ;)

[Segue Myles]

"We keep saying Rush were not as good without Terry Brown, but p/g through to HYF are arguably better produced and more interesting albums! "

 

Yes, "arguably," and I would certainly argue the other side! :D

 

I was about to write the same thing ;)

 

Well, it depends on taste.

[Weakly Criminal]

That's the great thing about Rush being such an enduring band. You have a chance to grow with or without them, and then go back and see what you missed. There is not a single RUSH studio album that I do not now appreciate. Some more than others of course, but when I get a hunger for one nothing else will do.

[WorkingAllTheTime]

In general, fans never really appreciate when something changes. In high school, I remember Iron Maiden diehards freaking out when Seventh Son came out. The album had clear, distinct prog elements including keyboards and a concept format (gee, that sounded a little familiar to this Rush fan) and it was not "metal". In college, I remember Metallica diehards freaking out over the black album and the band's moving away from complex arrangements to something more accessible to the average fan and it was not "Metallica". The same goes for the Rush synth era. Over time, though, most people get over it and accept that musicians are still artists and will go through phases and adjustments. I simply look at Rush as a band that has some distinct catalog eras. I appreciate different elements of each era, but reject none of them.

[404-ed!!!]

404-ed, Although I got into the band earlier than you, I also do not like the RTB/Presto/T4E crap. I suggest to just ignore it all and concentrate on the albums you do like.

 

You didn't mention having Hemispheres or A Farewell to Kings—have you heard them? If not, GO OUT AND BUY THEM RIGHT NOW, You're in for a treat :D

404-ed, Although I got into the band earlier than you, I also do not like the RTB/Presto/T4E crap. I suggest to just ignore it all and concentrate on the albums you do like.

 

You didn't mention having Hemispheres or A Farewell to Kings—have you heard them? If not, GO OUT AND BUY THEM RIGHT NOW, You're in for a treat :D

I am hoping you have ATWAS as well..... :codger: :D

 

Oh yeah, i have Rush through MP, the live albums, a couple DVD's, and such. Having said that, the sythn era I continue to give a chance but just not my thing. I get why they changed, but when I want a departure from that 70's sound, there are just too many other bands and music genres that I prefer. Plenty of songs I like from the 80's but its just a different era that I'm not really into.

 

Maybe i just don't like the 80's new wave sound in general, because after classic rock period I tend to go to heavy metal or honestly even some older rap stuff (I know, flame away but I grew up with that stuff so it was kind of unavoidable)

[troutman]

404-ed, Although I got into the band earlier than you, I also do not like the RTB/Presto/T4E crap. I suggest to just ignore it all and concentrate on the albums you do like.

 

You didn't mention having Hemispheres or A Farewell to Kings—have you heard them? If not, GO OUT AND BUY THEM RIGHT NOW, You're in for a treat :D

404-ed, Although I got into the band earlier than you, I also do not like the RTB/Presto/T4E crap. I suggest to just ignore it all and concentrate on the albums you do like.

 

You didn't mention having Hemispheres or A Farewell to Kings—have you heard them? If not, GO OUT AND BUY THEM RIGHT NOW, You're in for a treat :D

I am hoping you have ATWAS as well..... :codger: :D

 

Oh yeah, i have Rush through MP, the live albums, a couple DVD's, and such. Having said that, the sythn era I continue to give a chance but just not my thing. I get why they changed, but when I want a departure from that 70's sound, there are just too many other bands and music genres that I prefer. Plenty of songs I like from the 80's but its just a different era that I'm not really into.

 

Maybe i just don't like the 80's new wave sound in general, because after classic rock period I tend to go to heavy metal or honestly even some older rap stuff (I know, flame away but I grew up with that stuff so it was kind of unavoidable)

 

 

At least your honest about the synth era,

 

BTW, The only way not to avoid Rap is in traffic. :madra: :P

[Carrystress]

It is ironic. I used to hate majority of the 80's content when I started listening to them, and thought the two worst albums were HYF and Presto, but now I love that stuff. The thing is the keyboard stuff is hard to adapt to. But, HYF and GUP had some killer guitar parts on them. So did signals, but the guitar wasn't dominant enough of a sound. Which of course digital man and analog kid make up for it in a way, but still. Regardless, I still love Countdown and Losing It which are both very heavy with synth. GUP, I like the first side, and between the wheels. Other than that, it is meh. Okay, I guess. PoW had some good guitar on it, from Marathon, but the rest is keyboard everywhere. Don't get me wrong, I like pretty much all of the album, just needed more guitar as usual. This doesn't mean I forgot how much they needed bass over keyboard.

[toscanobarga]

I think one thing that hurts the CD era material (meaning that CDs had eclipsed LPs as the primary medium, basically starting with Power Windows as I recall) is that the albums got longer and longer, and so did the filler. 2112 through PeW all came in under 39 minutes. Moving Pictures just hit 40. By HYF they were up to 50 minutes and the last three average at about 65 minutes. VT at 67 and CA at 66 minutes are each nearly twice PeW's 35:35 length.

 

No doubt other factors are more important to the difference (like the departure of Terry Brown), but I wonder how good of an album Rush might make now if they only had to fill a 38 minute play length like the old days.

 

This "fill the CD" thing has plagued almost every band I like.

[x1yyz]

In general, fans never really appreciate when something changes. In high school, I remember Iron Maiden diehards freaking out when Seventh Son came out. The album had clear, distinct prog elements including keyboards and a concept format (gee, that sounded a little familiar to this Rush fan) and it was not "metal".

 

I think it was the Powerslave album that had written, somewhere on the album sleeve, "Contains no keyboards or ulterior motives." I've come to like most of SSoaSS but I do prefer my Maiden without keyboards (and pre-1985 ;) ).

[Lorraine]

What are you gentlemen talking about "filling a CD"?

[toscanobarga]

What are you gentlemen talking about "filling a CD"?

 

Pre-CD era, typical album 38-48 minutes

 

Post-CD era, typical album 55-65 minutes

 

Result = More filler

 

In the Pre-CD era, Vapor Trails, Snakes and arrows, Clockwork Angels etc would have been "double albums" and other than CA, nothing Rush has done post-PW is worthy of having been a double-album.

[Segue Myles]

What are you gentlemen talking about "filling a CD"?

 

Vinyls had a shorter time limit, so often they would be tight and any weaker tracks left off.

 

In the CD era, many bands appear to have made longer albums, often with padding in the form of "filler". I think Presto through to Test For Echo are all guilty of this in some respects, but to be honest I am just glad Rush have never been one to do b-sides.

 

I disagree with this argument partly because a lot of vinyl era bands had albums with the obvious hits and bland filler. I don't see how anything has changed aside from longer running times!

 

I exclude VT and SA, because there great songs are hardly enough to fill a standard CD maxi single. CA is pretty much all essential.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Segue Myles

[Rutlefan]

In the LP era album lengths tended to run between 36 and 46 minutes, more or less (of course there were outliers: VHII came in at an even 32:00 whereas Genesis Duke ran over 55 minutes). Now releases tend to run 50 to 60+ minutes (generally). I think there's now a lot of weak material released that in past would have ended up on a b-side if released at all. Radiohead's HttT would have benefited from some trimming, for example.

 

Edit: I was interrupted while writing my post so didn't see the two before mine. So...what they said.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Rutlefan

[Rutlefan]

"In the Pre-CD era, Vapor Trails, Snakes and arrows, Clockwork Angels etc would have been "double albums" and other than CA, nothing Rush has done post-PW is worthy of having been a double-album."

 

Eeeeexactly.

[Lorraine]

Another reason to go back to vinyl.

[Rutlefan]

"I disagree with this argument partly because a lot of vinyl era bands had albums with the obvious hits and bland filler. I don't see how anything has changed aside from longer running times!"

 

True for most bands, but not the great ones, like Rush. Zeppelin, Floyd, etc. They didn't have filler, IMO. Rush releases now have a lot of filler.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Rutlefan

[Segue Myles]

"I disagree with this argument partly because a lot of vinyl era bands had albums with the obvious hits and bland filler. I don't see how anything has changed aside from longer running times!"

 

True for most bands, but not the great ones, like Rush. Zeppelin, Floyd, etc. They didn't have filler, IMO. Rush releases now have a lot of filler.

 

Oh definitely agree! But they were in a minority, same as great bands/artists today!

 

Plus all my favourite songs it seems of Rush tend to be the fillers in everyone elses eyes...I Think I'm Going Bald, Cinderella Man, some even sniff at Witch Hunt and Losing It...

Edited July 2, 2014 by Segue Myles

[x1yyz]

"I disagree with this argument partly because a lot of vinyl era bands had albums with the obvious hits and bland filler. I don't see how anything has changed aside from longer running times!"

 

True for most bands, but not the great ones, like Rush. Zeppelin, Floyd, etc. They didn't have filler, IMO. Rush releases now have a lot of filler.

 

Oh definitely agree! But they were in a minority, same as great bands/artists today!

 

Plus all my favourite songs it seems of Rush tend to be the fillers in everyone elses eyes...I Think I'm Going Bald, Cinderella Man, some even sniff at Witch Hunt and Losing It...

 

Those latter three songs are fantastic and are not filler!

[Segue Myles]

"I disagree with this argument partly because a lot of vinyl era bands had albums with the obvious hits and bland filler. I don't see how anything has changed aside from longer running times!"

 

True for most bands, but not the great ones, like Rush. Zeppelin, Floyd, etc. They didn't have filler, IMO. Rush releases now have a lot of filler.

 

Oh definitely agree! But they were in a minority, same as great bands/artists today!

 

Plus all my favourite songs it seems of Rush tend to be the fillers in everyone elses eyes...I Think I'm Going Bald, Cinderella Man, some even sniff at Witch Hunt and Losing It...

 

Those latter three songs are fantastic and are not filler!

 

I know! But all three I have heard people really criticise. Witch Hunt bogs down MP's second side (rubbish), Losing It is boring (if your deaf), Cinderella Man is apparently ine of the reasons why Hemispheres is superior (its better than Circumstances and The Trees)...I dunno, I always felt like a poop for loving these when I first came here.

 

O and Madrigal...why the hate? Its the perfect bridge between Cinderella Man and Cygnus X-1!

[WorkingAllTheTime]

It is ironic. I used to hate majority of the 80's content when I started listening to them, and thought the two worst albums were HYF and Presto, but now I love that stuff. The thing is the keyboard stuff is hard to adapt to. But, HYF and GUP had some killer guitar parts on them. So did signals, but the guitar wasn't dominant enough of a sound. Which of course digital man and analog kid make up for it in a way, but still. Regardless, I still love Countdown and Losing It which are both very heavy with synth. GUP, I like the first side, and between the wheels. Other than that, it is meh. Okay, I guess. PoW had some good guitar on it, from Marathon, but the rest is keyboard everywhere. Don't get me wrong, I like pretty much all of the album, just needed more guitar as usual. This doesn't mean I forgot how much they needed bass over keyboard.

 

I remember literally yanking the Presto cassette (yeah, I am that old) out of my car stereo while driving, thinking "what the hell is this crap?", and tossing it in the back seat. Now, granted, I think "Superconductor" was the song playing at that moment, so I had some level of justification at the time... but as I got older, and wiser, and (gasp) more mature, I began to appreciate the Presto album. I would not consider it one of my favorites, but there are songs on it that I hold dear. Time and perspective have a funny way of changing how we view the world. I also used to think dry, red wine was vulgar... now I only touch cabs. Presto is a cab.... "Superconductor", though, is still a bottle that turned into vinegar. :)

Edited July 3, 2014 by WorkingAllTheTime

[savagegrace26]

But these "filler" tracks make the album discussions more interesting...regardless, what is filler to one is essential to others.

 

New World Man (it was originally referred to as "project 3:57" because they needed a song of that length to round out the record) and Force Ten (the producer suggested that they were record one more song to make HYF have an even ten songs instead of nine) were documented to be recorded as "filler" tracks. They exist only because they was too much time left that needed to be filled on their correspomding records.

 

You never know what song may not have been recorded if they were dealing with shorter running times.

 

I think Far Cry was one of the last songs written and recorded for Snakes & Arrows. If it was the vinyl era that song may never made it to the album.

[savagegrace26]

So you can't have the good without the less good.