LeaveMyThingAlone Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Most of us have heard Neil say Tom Sawyer is one of the hardest songs for him to play live. As someone that has no technical knowledge of drumming, I've always wondered why that is. Is it an odd and difficult time signature? Is it tiring? Is there one specific part of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 That's a good question. I'd like to know the answer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I think part of it is keeping the constant 16th notes going on the high-hat. The first time I heard him talk about it being difficult, the song was coming right after his drum solo. So he was bashing away at his kit for 8-9 minutes, and then they go into TS with a very precise percussion part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 So much for that. It doesn't help knowing why it is so difficult for him to play if I don't even known what a 16th note is. :( When I watch him play, I often wonder what kind of concentration it must take to do all he does at the same time. It appears to me he has several things going at the same time, but not necessarily at the same beat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Most of us have heard Neil say Tom Sawyer is one of the hardest songs for him to play live. As someone that has no technical knowledge of drumming, I've always wondered why that is. Is it an odd and difficult time signature? Is it tiring? Is there one specific part of it? My understanding is that the song takes a lot of stamina. He's known for being a heavy-hitting drummer and there aren't many spots in TS where he's not drumming. He's on maximum overdrive nearly the whole song. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 So much for that. It doesn't help knowing why it is so difficult for him to play if I don't even known what a 16th note is. So the next time you're listening to a catchy song and you find your foot tapping to the beat, the chances are good that you'll be tapping quarter notes. Most "catchy" songs are in 4/4 time, which means "four quarter note beats per measure". If you tap your foot twice as fast, you'll be tapping 8th notes (your foot will tap 8 times per measure)...if you double that, you'll be tapping 16th notes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Speaking of Neil and his drumming, that reminds me of something someone here said on another thread. I think they mentioned that Test For Echo was the last album with Neil before he went under the tutelage of that drum master (forgot his name). Can those here who are attuned to this type of thing hear the difference in his playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 So much for that. It doesn't help knowing why it is so difficult for him to play if I don't even known what a 16th note is. So the next time you're listening to a catchy song and you find your foot tapping to the beat, the chances are good that you'll be tapping quarter notes. Most "catchy" songs are in 4/4 time, which means "four quarter note beats per measure". If you tap your foot twice as fast, you'll be tapping 8th notes (your foot will tap 8 times per measure)...if you double that, you'll be tapping 16th notes. Thank you. I'll start noticing this with myself when I am listening to them because I am always tapping my foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Speaking of Neil and his drumming, that reminds me of something someone here said on another thread. I think they mentioned that Test For Echo was the last album with Neil before he went under the tutelage of that drum master (forgot his name). Can those here who are attuned to this type of thing hear the difference in his playing? I'm not a drummer, just a dumb guitarist, so I don't hear any marked difference between the pre-Gruber and post-Gruber Neil, and I seem to recall that Neil's band mates couldn't really hear much of a difference, either. Though Neil did harp on the mechanics of Gruber's tutelage, I think the effect of having worked with Freddy was more esoteric, resulting in subtle changes in how Neil feels (and presents) the beat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Analog Cub Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 It's one of those songs where he hits the drums really hard, at times really fast, and it's non-stop. As said above, there isn't a single spot in the song where he isn't bashing the kit. Lots of time changes and really fast hi-hat hits, which can't be good for the wrists. That insane drum break after the guitar solo that every casual fan wanks over isn't exactly easy either :P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILSnwdog Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I think it's a difficult song for each of them to play. I read where Geddy says that he loves playing it live because it's so difficult, and he gets a great amount of satisfaction when they nail it live. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I'm going to go watch them do it right now. What concert should I watch? I guess the question should be, at what concert did they do it the best? I like the CA one on account of the fact that they all seemed happy the three hours were over and they only had one more song to do. Speaking of Tom Sawyer, has anyone here noticed that they end the concert version of it the same way Xanadu ends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 It's one of those songs where he hits the drums really hard, at times really fast, and it's non-stop. As said above, there isn't a single spot in the song where he isn't bashing the kit. Lots of time changes and really fast hi-hat hits, which can't be good for the wrists. That insane drum break after the guitar solo that every casual fan wanks over isn't exactly easy either :P What's a "hi-hat hit"? Point out a part in the song where he does it so I know exactly what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I think it's a difficult song for each of them to play. I read where Geddy says that he loves playing it live because it's so difficult, and he gets a great amount of satisfaction when they nail it live. It's not too hard (relative to some of their other songs) on the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Analog Cub Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I think it's a difficult song for each of them to play. I read where Geddy says that he loves playing it live because it's so difficult, and he gets a great amount of satisfaction when they nail it live. It's not too hard (relative to some of their other songs) on the guitar. I still can't get f***ing Spirit of Radio's main riff. I have tried for years. I'll just go back to playing La Villa Strangiato. Really strange that I can play all of that but not TSOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunter Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 If you watch the videos, he's using his right handfor the hi-hat 16th notes immediatley after the first beat(note, hit etc.) of the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 It's one of those songs where he hits the drums really hard, at times really fast, and it's non-stop. As said above, there isn't a single spot in the song where he isn't bashing the kit. Lots of time changes and really fast hi-hat hits, which can't be good for the wrists. That insane drum break after the guitar solo that every casual fan wanks over isn't exactly easy either :P What's a "hi-hat hit"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmuJODCjpiA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnotes Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Definitely the fact that is playing hard and maintaining 16th notes. If you are not in shape, you will run out of gas about half way through, your forearm muscle will start to give out along with the accenting on the hihat. I know plenty of drummers who can "go through the motins" meaning they can play it, but mostly with their wrists. In order to get "the sound", you have to get you whole body into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeaveMyThingAlone Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 So if Neil hits the bass drum first, the 16 means that he will hit the high hat 16 times before hitting the bass again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 I think it's a difficult song for each of them to play. I read where Geddy says that he loves playing it live because it's so difficult, and he gets a great amount of satisfaction when they nail it live. It's not too hard (relative to some of their other songs) on the guitar. I still can't get f***ing Spirit of Radio's main riff. I have tried for years. I'll just go back to playing La Villa Strangiato. Really strange that I can play all of that but not TSOR. It's tricky to get without inadvertently sounding the B string. I always end up very lightly muting the strings when I play it...just enough to keep the B string from ringing out, but not enough to keep the intentional notes from being heard. I also play an extra note that Alex doesn't usually play.He plays the first part of the riff like F#-E-D(D)-A-E-D-E, where he plays that first D note as an 8th rather than a 16th...I play it F#-E-D-E-A-E-D-E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Which drum is the bass drum? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Which drum is the bass drum? The big one (or ones in the case of this pic): http://www.freewill.net/bertPhotos/3e.jpg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g under p Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) This kid nails it...... >Check out this 7 year old drummer Avery Drummer....especially @ the 2:20 mark he starts to get into playing and having some fun.... Edited June 10, 2014 by g under p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JARG Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 The heart of any rock kit is the kick, snare, and hi-hat. The kick provides the low-frequency "thump".The snare provides the mid-frequency "crack".And the hat provides the high-frequency "tick/tock" pulse (and/or other interesting accents). A good drummer can get a lot of mileage with just those three kit pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Haha, I stopped to watch Free Will. Okay - for convenience sake (mine), I have the Time Machine Tom Sawyer in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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