Neil Rules, and Here's Why

[Xanadoood]

if you really need to ask why keith moon or bonham are at the top of every rock drummer list, you need to realize that technicality is not what makes something good. plus, ask neil how he feels about keith moon, john bonham, ginger baker, etc. would zep or the who sound nearly as good with drummers who were strictly technical? sometimes rock needs to sound loose and free

 

It's one of the knocks on Neil.. To stiff

 

I don't think he sounds stiff at all on his first few albums with the band, it's around farewell where he becomes more of a "prog drummer" to me anyway

 

but yeah most folks who knock neil just bitch about how technical he is, but I think he sounds awesome. on the flipside, people who ONLY like technical drummers like peart and portnoy are almost as annoying

 

Oh dont get me wrong..I love Neils style, and i agree, on those early albums he had an almost Keith Moon feel to his playing, especially on FBN..The whole stiff tag is thrown at him by drummer snobs who only like jazz guys...they rip on Neil cause he cant " swing "..whatever..From 1975 to right around HYF in 87, i would put Neil up against any Rock drummer, especially the period between 76 and 85

[Syrinx]

Ian Paice - good call. He is definitely one of the best. Edited February 6, 2014 by Syrinx

[Thunder Bay Rush]

Too bad there wasn’t any video out there of one of Neil’s early solos… from ’75 – ’77. That would be cool to see.

[upstateNYfan]

Have any of you seen one of his solos live from, let's say, 25 years ago or more?

[GeminiRising79]

That "swing" shit has no place in Rush's music.

[ThatLightInYourEyes]

Maybe the beat of the drum, so to speak, has to come from inside. Hopefully Neil will someday be comfortable enough with who he is to just let things flow naturally without feeling the need to explain why.

[goose]

if you really need to ask why keith moon or bonham are at the top of every rock drummer list, you need to realize that technicality is not what makes something good. plus, ask neil how he feels about keith moon, john bonham, ginger baker, etc. would zep or the who sound nearly as good with drummers who were strictly technical? sometimes rock needs to sound loose and free

 

It's one of the knocks on Neil.. To stiff

I'm often curious why he makes that choice. I was listening to his solo from the Presto tour, and he was flat swinging. Yet in his songs he seems to over think it...over plan.

[Xanadoood]

if you really need to ask why keith moon or bonham are at the top of every rock drummer list, you need to realize that technicality is not what makes something good. plus, ask neil how he feels about keith moon, john bonham, ginger baker, etc. would zep or the who sound nearly as good with drummers who were strictly technical? sometimes rock needs to sound loose and free

 

It's one of the knocks on Neil.. To stiff

I'm often curious why he makes that choice. I was listening to his solo from the Presto tour, and he was flat swinging. Yet in his songs he seems to over think it...over plan.

 

Appearently , he took lessons from Freddy gruber in order to clean up his swing style , but he still looks quite stiff.. A lot of drummers don't like what Gruber did to him... I like the explosive Neil circa 1980

[Xanadoood]

I don't think John Bonham should be number two. Not by a long shot. He never really impressed me that much as a drummer.

 

I used to think that as well, but for Bonham, you have to watch live clips .. The guy was a real powerhouse , much more so than how he sounds in the studio

[Dscrapre]

I find the "Neil PURT is da best drummer evar!" stuff to be very tiresome.

 

First of all, there is no such thing. Drumming is art. Art is subjective. Therefore there can be no best drummer.

 

Secondly, :finbar:, Neil doesn't even achieve my personal criteria for drumming greatness. As far as I'm concerned, a world class drummer will work in any situation. Neil doesn't strike me as being a particularly adaptive musician. I mean, just listen to him playing Working Man: he over-plays like crazy and does things that are, to my ears, un-musical and distasteful. His Jazz is pretty weak. I know that jazz is not his primary genre, but he's been attempting to incorporate it into his solos for about 15 years now, with tepid results. Meanwhile you have guys like Buddy Rich or Benny Greb who most certainly could play anything that Neil plays, and basically everything else, with authenticity.

 

All that said, Neil is a very vital component in Rush that gives them their identity. Likewise, Rush gives Neil his identity.

 

EDIT: To clarify, I think that Neil Peart is the best drummer for Rush, I'm just skeptical about his versatility and credentials as a "Greatest Ever" candidate.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Dscrapre

[EagleMoon]

I find the "Neil PURT is da best drummer evar!" stuff to be very tiresome.

 

First of all, there is no such thing. Drumming is art. Art is subjective. Therefore there can be no best drummer.

 

Secondly, :finbar:, Neil doesn't even achieve my personal criteria for drumming greatness. As far as I'm concerned, a world class drummer will work in any situation. Neil doesn't strike me as being a particularly adaptive musician. I mean, just listen to him playing Working Man: he over-plays like crazy and does things that are, to my ears, un-musical and distasteful. His Jazz is pretty weak. I know that jazz is not his primary genre, but he's been attempting to incorporate it into his solos for about 15 years now, with tepid results. Meanwhile you have guys like Buddy Rich or Benny Greb who most certainly could play anything that Neil plays, and basically everything else, with authenticity.

 

All that said, Neil is a very vital component in Rush that gives them their identity. Likewise, Rush gives Neil his identity.

 

EDIT: To clarify, I think that Neil Peart is the best drummer for Rush, I'm just skeptical about his versatility and credentials as a "Greatest Ever" candidate.

 

That sounds like most every famous drummer I know. They get popular in one genre and pretty much stick to it, unless we're talking about a studio musician, who would have more experience playing in different musical environments, but they're usually not as well known.

[Dscrapre]

I find the "Neil PURT is da best drummer evar!" stuff to be very tiresome.

 

First of all, there is no such thing. Drumming is art. Art is subjective. Therefore there can be no best drummer.

 

Secondly, :finbar:, Neil doesn't even achieve my personal criteria for drumming greatness. As far as I'm concerned, a world class drummer will work in any situation. Neil doesn't strike me as being a particularly adaptive musician. I mean, just listen to him playing Working Man: he over-plays like crazy and does things that are, to my ears, un-musical and distasteful. His Jazz is pretty weak. I know that jazz is not his primary genre, but he's been attempting to incorporate it into his solos for about 15 years now, with tepid results. Meanwhile you have guys like Buddy Rich or Benny Greb who most certainly could play anything that Neil plays, and basically everything else, with authenticity.

 

All that said, Neil is a very vital component in Rush that gives them their identity. Likewise, Rush gives Neil his identity.

 

EDIT: To clarify, I think that Neil Peart is the best drummer for Rush, I'm just skeptical about his versatility and credentials as a "Greatest Ever" candidate.

 

That sounds like most every famous drummer I know. They get popular in one genre and pretty much stick to it, unless we're talking about a studio musician, who would have more experience playing in different musical environments, but they're usually not as well known.

 

Well, yeah, most musicians are like that. Which is why "best ever" lists are so dumb. It's popularity and musical folk wisdom. I know a few people who know way less about drummers or Rush than me, but they would argue with me about weather Neil is in fact the greatest drummer ever. It seems that John Bonham, Keith Moon and Neil Peart are consistently at the top of these lists because to a lot of people, those are the only three drummers that they know by name (except for Ringo Starr, but musical folk wisdom leads many to dismiss him as not being very good). Now guys like Dave Grohl, Travis Barker and Tre Cool are starting to show up more frequently because they have achieved enough exposure to be widely recognized.

 

It doesn't matter that guys like Benny Greb, Dave Weckl or Vinnie Colaiuta are technically better in all measurable respects (speed, technique, adaptability), they are session guys who don't have broad mainstream notoriety.

[Supersyl]

Neil is perfect for Rush, Rush is perfect for Neil. Gruber destroyed his style, and I feel it has taken away from Rush. This>> :Neil:

[EagleMoon]

I find the "Neil PURT is da best drummer evar!" stuff to be very tiresome.

 

First of all, there is no such thing. Drumming is art. Art is subjective. Therefore there can be no best drummer.

 

Secondly, :finbar:, Neil doesn't even achieve my personal criteria for drumming greatness. As far as I'm concerned, a world class drummer will work in any situation. Neil doesn't strike me as being a particularly adaptive musician. I mean, just listen to him playing Working Man: he over-plays like crazy and does things that are, to my ears, un-musical and distasteful. His Jazz is pretty weak. I know that jazz is not his primary genre, but he's been attempting to incorporate it into his solos for about 15 years now, with tepid results. Meanwhile you have guys like Buddy Rich or Benny Greb who most certainly could play anything that Neil plays, and basically everything else, with authenticity.

 

All that said, Neil is a very vital component in Rush that gives them their identity. Likewise, Rush gives Neil his identity.

 

EDIT: To clarify, I think that Neil Peart is the best drummer for Rush, I'm just skeptical about his versatility and credentials as a "Greatest Ever" candidate.

 

That sounds like most every famous drummer I know. They get popular in one genre and pretty much stick to it, unless we're talking about a studio musician, who would have more experience playing in different musical environments, but they're usually not as well known.

 

Well, yeah, most musicians are like that. Which is why "best ever" lists are so dumb. It's popularity and musical folk wisdom. I know a few people who know way less about drummers or Rush than me, but they would argue with me about weather Neil is in fact the greatest drummer ever. It seems that John Bonham, Keith Moon and Neil Peart are consistently at the top of these lists because to a lot of people, those are the only three drummers that they know by name (except for Ringo Starr, but musical folk wisdom leads many to dismiss him as not being very good). Now guys like Dave Grohl, Travis Barker and Tre Cool are starting to show up more frequently because they have achieved enough exposure to be widely recognized.

 

It doesn't matter that guys like Benny Greb, Dave Weckl or Vinnie Colaiuta are technically better in all measurable respects (speed, technique, adaptability), they are session guys who don't have broad mainstream notoriety.

 

So you think the main reason that other people aren't on the list is because no one knows their names? It's possible, but I still don't think Neil is a household name. :) And also because someone is versatile doesn't necessarily make them a better drummer. I would think to be great in your genre would be much more impressive than being only good in many.

[Xanadoood]

I find the "Neil PURT is da best drummer evar!" stuff to be very tiresome.

 

First of all, there is no such thing. Drumming is art. Art is subjective. Therefore there can be no best drummer.

 

Secondly, :finbar:, Neil doesn't even achieve my personal criteria for drumming greatness. As far as I'm concerned, a world class drummer will work in any situation. Neil doesn't strike me as being a particularly adaptive musician. I mean, just listen to him playing Working Man: he over-plays like crazy and does things that are, to my ears, un-musical and distasteful. His Jazz is pretty weak. I know that jazz is not his primary genre, but he's been attempting to incorporate it into his solos for about 15 years now, with tepid results. Meanwhile you have guys like Buddy Rich or Benny Greb who most certainly could play anything that Neil plays, and basically everything else, with authenticity.

 

All that said, Neil is a very vital component in Rush that gives them their identity. Likewise, Rush gives Neil his identity.

 

EDIT: To clarify, I think that Neil Peart is the best drummer for Rush, I'm just skeptical about his versatility and credentials as a "Greatest Ever" candidate.

 

That sounds like most every famous drummer I know. They get popular in one genre and pretty much stick to it, unless we're talking about a studio musician, who would have more experience playing in different musical environments, but they're usually not as well known.

 

Well, yeah, most musicians are like that. Which is why "best ever" lists are so dumb. It's popularity and musical folk wisdom. I know a few people who know way less about drummers or Rush than me, but they would argue with me about weather Neil is in fact the greatest drummer ever. It seems that John Bonham, Keith Moon and Neil Peart are consistently at the top of these lists because to a lot of people, those are the only three drummers that they know by name (except for Ringo Starr, but musical folk wisdom leads many to dismiss him as not being very good). Now guys like Dave Grohl, Travis Barker and Tre Cool are starting to show up more frequently because they have achieved enough exposure to be widely recognized.

 

It doesn't matter that guys like Benny Greb, Dave Weckl or Vinnie Colaiuta are technically better in all measurable respects (speed, technique, adaptability), they are session guys who don't have broad mainstream notoriety.

 

So you think the main reason that other people aren't on the list is because no one knows their names? It's possible, but I still don't think Neil is a household name. :) And also because someone is versatile doesn't necessarily make them a better drummer. I would think to be great in your genre would be much more impressive than being only good in many.

 

Neil is pretty well known , much more so than those session guys. And yes, those guys are FAR more advanced in their playing. I enjoy listening to Neil more than Vinnie Coulita, but I know VC is an overall better player.

 

As an example, I have a Jeff Beck live DVD .. Came out a few years back.. VC plays on it..And after watching it, I don't come away really remembering any of the drumming, even though I know his playing is huge.. I watched it with a drummer friend of mine, and he was trying to explain some of the technical stuff hew as doing, but I'm no drummer .. Anyway, my point is that Neil writes really memorable parts in Rush songs, but from a drumming perspective, they aren't nearly on the level of guys like VC

[Drummerrobin]

Neil is perfect for Rush, Rush is perfect for Neil. Gruber destroyed his style, and I feel it has taken away from Rush. This>> :Neil:

 

But you, along with other people who bash Freddie Gruber are forgetting something vital. There's more to it than Neil just going to see Freddie to become more "jazzy". By the mid-90s his technique had indeed become stiff - dangerously stiff. As a drummer who has studied the Moeller technique (pretty much what Freddie taught Neil) in depth, I can say it's very likely that if Neil had kept going the way he was, he would have started developing some serious problems with the likes of carpal tunnel syndrome. This would have severely limited his ability to play and could have even been a career ender. Has anyone else been impressed with how age doesn't appear to be having any real effect on Neil's speed and technique? Just look at his playing across the last 10 years - if anything he's still getting better I think. Most other rock drummers 60+ would have real trouble doing anything close to what Neil does every night and I very much doubt that would be the case if it wasn't for him improving his technical foundation. Whether you like Neil's post Gruber playing or not, you should still remember that Neil probably wouldn't be able to play at the standard he does at his age without the technique boost that he got through studying with Gruber.

[Supersyl]

Neil is perfect for Rush, Rush is perfect for Neil. Gruber destroyed his style, and I feel it has taken away from Rush. This>> :Neil:

 

But you, along with other people who bash Freddie Gruber are forgetting something vital. There's more to it than Neil just going to see Freddie to become more "jazzy". By the mid-90s his technique had indeed become stiff - dangerously stiff. As a drummer who has studied the Moeller technique (pretty much what Freddie taught Neil) in depth, I can say it's very likely that if Neil had kept going the way he was, he would have started developing some serious problems with the likes of carpal tunnel syndrome. This would have severely limited his ability to play and could have even been a career ender. Has anyone else been impressed with how age doesn't appear to be having any real effect on Neil's speed and technique? Just look at his playing across the last 10 years - if anything he's still getting better I think. Most other rock drummers 60+ would have real trouble doing anything close to what Neil does every night and I very much doubt that would be the case if it wasn't for him improving his technical foundation. Whether you like Neil's post Gruber playing or not, you should still remember that Neil probably wouldn't be able to play at the standard he does at his age without the technique boost that he got through studying with Gruber.

 

Yes, your comment makes a lot of sense. When I say "destroyed", I mean, Neil's style was so immediately recognizable, it was his OWN... Now I feel like he's become more generic.... But, yes, he's still going strong!

[GeminiRising79]

Neil would've been fine had his sparkling eyes never met Gruber.

[Xanadoood]

Neil would've been fine had his sparkling eyes never met Gruber.

 

[Dscrapre]

Neil would've been fine had his sparkling eyes never met Gruber.

 

Probably not

[HalfwayToGone]

Best drummer lists generally suck. I love Neil as much as the next guy, but c'mon. I'm sure Neil would rattle off a whole bunch of guys he'd put ahead of himself. His current mentor is great, and may teach him something worthwhile.

[Fordgalaxy]

If Neil is so good, why, as a very experienced drummer, did he go see McGruber to try and learn something? If he's the best, doesn't that indicate he should be doing the teaching? He wouldn't have to learn anything from anyone because he's already doing those things.

[HalfwayToGone]

I wouldn't necessarily go that far. No matter how great a person is, they don't know everything, so someone out there can show them something. Neil is more visible, because he plays like a soloist rather than an accompanist, all the time. He busts out massive fills all over the place, where most drummers would not, as well as where they would. Keith Moon was like that too—very bombastic as much as possible, but following the flow of the song while being that way. Most drummers who try that style sound like crap, and just overplay. Playing flashily on songs that are actually great is another key to being more visible. Being the greatest drummer in the world will only get you so far if you choose to play music that everyone else finds unlistenable, even if it's artistically way ahead of everything else out there. A lot of the best drummers play jazz, because it has the fewest restrictions as a general style of music—you can pretty much throw out the rule book if you want, but jazz is nowhere near popular compared with really popular music of the day, unless you're talking about the 1920s-40s. But when you have the right combination of people, and they can get together and write good music with lots of bombastic drum parts, the drummer can be visible like Keith Moon, Carl Palmer, Neil Peart, John Bonham or even Alex Van Halen or Dave Lombardo or Lars douchebag Ulrich with the ever-increasing forehead. I could go on, but yougetthepicture.

[bathory]

If Neil is so good, why, as a very experienced drummer, did he go see McGruber to try and learn something? If he's the best, doesn't that indicate he should be doing the teaching? He wouldn't have to learn anything from anyone because he's already doing those things.

there's always room for improvement, everyone knows this. you think malmsteen and van halen don't practice the axe still?

[upstateNYfan]

Improvement is one of the things Rush aspire to. It's a big factor in their greatness. After all, they don't have to try so hard, but they do. Every time.