Michael Schenker V. Eddie Van Halen: "INTO THE ARENA" "ON FIRE!"

[Rick N. Backer]

I like UFO more than VH but EVH is the better guitarist.

 

most influential ever? nah man. hendrix

 

I think Hendrix was great. I don't think virtually everyone after him tried to copy him though.

[ReRushed]

I like UFO more than VH but EVH is the better guitarist.

 

most influential ever? nah man. hendrix

 

I think Hendrix was great. I don't think virtually everyone after him tried to copy him though.

More people probably copied Johnny Ramone.

[bathory]

I just think hendrix has had more of an impact on rock guitar as a whole, EVH's influence is pretty much non-existent outside of metal/80s hard rock

[ReRushed]

Hendrix, hands down.

[Detonator]

Eddie is the best rock guitarist ever. Period.

 

Can I name a good Eddie solo? I can name a few.

 

Check this out for example. This is from the Balance tour when he was soberb and on top of his game.

 

[Detonator]

VH was much better band musically with Hagar. Balance, f**k, 5150 songwriting and singing is much better than in the earlier works.

 

Yes, I, II and Fair Warning are good rock albums. But Roth doesn't even sing in them... he "speaks" through all the songs,,, and he sucks ass live.

 

This 2012 reunion live is probably the most embarrassing thing I've ever seen. And you can take this from a lifelong VH fan. I loved VH in its original formation and I loved Van Hagar. But this was just shite.

 

 

PS: Good comment from YT:

As a big VH fan, I find this ridiculously bad. It's not the musicianship from Eddie and Al, it's simply DLR. One of the greatest rock bands ever, one of the greatest guitarists of all time(the best imo) is into it's final touring days and is fronted by a joke. Any VH fan or rock n roll fan knows that DLR was all about showmanship over musicianship live in concert and that past in his earlier days, but not anymore. I saw them on the 2007 tour and it was not too bad, DLR surprised me actually. But this is just plain shit and I suspect it will only get worse when and if they tour again. Sammy haters just don't get it....the DLR era was over and should have stayed over. VH got slightly different with Sammy, but they were still a great rock n roll band in every possible way and VH with Sammy still put other bands to shame. I just finished listening to a bootleg of VH in Chicago in 1993 doing the song Pleasure Dome and it blows this performance away. I will enjoy the VH albums I have, which is every one they released, and the memories of 2 shows....but this band is shit with DLR back.

[EagleMoon]

DLR would've been great as a circus showman. That's kind of what he did in VH. The group has always been about Eddie, but DLR gave the girls something to drool over.

[Detonator]

Exactly.

 

As a singer he started out with nothing and he still got 3/4 left. :D

 

The early albums like Fair Warning are great EVEN WITH DLR, not BECAUSE OF HIM.

 

Michael Anthony and Eddie supported him well as background singers. If you look at ANY old VH live performances you gotta admit that Dave was a crappy singer... probably the worst singer ever in a major rock group (if you count out Axl Rose in his current condition). In the 2012 tour he was simply horrendous. He embarrassed this great band and its legacy... it was THAT bad.

 

Look at this... look how Sammy performed the heavier songs. Even Sammy haters must admit that the band was (musically) in its peak in the early 90's.

 

Edited December 24, 2014 by Detonator

[ReRushed]

Roth-era Van Halen blows Hagar-era Van Halen out of the water.

 

Roth wrote and sang many great melodies. And, I personally think some of Roth's lyrics are very witty and intelligent.

[bathory]

david lee roth is one of the smartest men alive.

[Turbine Freight]

They're both great in their own right.

 

EVH really showed his limitations when he tried to "jam" with Holdsworth. He excels at one thing. If he steps outside that box , he is cast adrift. But let's face it, at least he does excel in his chosen field.

 

EVH is perhaps the better guitarist, but Schenker is by far the better musician.

 

It's horses for courses.

[Detonator]

Roth-era Van Halen blows Hagar-era Van Halen out of the water.

 

Roth wrote and sang many great melodies. And, I personally think some of Roth's lyrics are very witty and intelligent.

 

When it comes to studio albums it's a taste thing. Personally I prefer the Hagar era but understand people who grew up with those old albums. It's true that Hagar era didn't give even one all-around great album, but the best pieces in f**k, 5150 and Balance are VH in its prime, imho.

 

Listen to Feelin', Take Me Back, Right Now and Mine all Mine for example... they're amazing songs with some great vocal performances. The songwriting was taken into another level in 5150... even Eddie admitted that. They were able to do SO much more with Hagar and his capabilities. But yeah... I understand people who like the old stuff more. It's like the old Rush vs. new Rush... useless to argue.

 

But when it comes to live performances, you gotta be deaf to say that Roth-era was better. I can't even watch those old VH lives anymore... Roth is absolutely HORRIBLE. Great frontman, yes... but a crappy vocalist.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Detonator

[ReRushed]

They're both great in their own right.

 

EVH really showed his limitations when he tried to "jam" with Holdsworth. He excels at one thing. If he steps outside that box , he is cast adrift. But let's face it, at least he does excel in his chosen field.

 

EVH is perhaps the better guitarist, but Schenker is by far the better musician.

 

It's horses for courses.

I like Michael Schenker a lot. I enjoy his work with UFO and the first two Michael Schenker Group albums are very good. But, there is nothing on them that outshines Eddie's writing on those Roth-era albums. The riffs, the solos, the rhythm playing. I think Eddie really redefined rock guitar.. Schenker is very very good, but what has he redefined?

[ReRushed]

Roth-era Van Halen blows Hagar-era Van Halen out of the water.

 

Roth wrote and sang many great melodies. And, I personally think some of Roth's lyrics are very witty and intelligent.

 

When it comes to studio albums it's a taste thing. Personally I prefer the Hagar era but understand people who grew up with those old albums. It's true that Hagar era didn't give even one all-around great album, but the best pieces in f**k, 5150 and Balance are VH in its prime, imho.

 

Listen to Feelin', Take Me Back, Right Now and Mine all Mine for example... they're amazing songs with some great vocal performances. The songwriting was taken into another level in 5150... even Eddie admitted that. They were able to do SO much more with Hagar and his capabilities. But yeah... I understand people who like the old stuff more. It's like the old Rush vs. new Rush... useless to argue.

 

But when it comes to live performances, you gotta be deaf to say that Roth-era was better. I can't even watch those old VH lives anymore... Roth is absolutely HORRIBLE. Great frontman, yes... but a crappy vocalist.

Full disclosure, I'm not a big Sammy Hagar fan. Most of his music seems pretty much "cookie cutter" variety. I think he's more of a craftsman than an individual artist or songwriter. He may be a better singer than Roth, and I admit that fact, but he doesn't really separate himself from the pack, other than being around FOREVER. I think there's a painting in a locked room...

[Detonator]

Not trying to change your mind... you have obviously decided your side... and so have I. :D

 

"Macho" types didn't like songs like When it's Love (which is btw one of the best rock ballads ever). I love those ballads... just like I love HYF (the best pop album ever). Some Rush fans hated it because it was different and "soft". Hagar era gave a lot of great melodic songs. I love them.

 

Listen to this one... it's an amazing song... a bit progressive, even. Eddie in his prime (the guitar sounds infernal, esp. the ending) and amazing, amazing vocals. Sammy was always very underrated frontman. This is something that they could never have done with Roth. Never.

 

[bathory]

They're both great in their own right.

 

EVH really showed his limitations when he tried to "jam" with Holdsworth. He excels at one thing. If he steps outside that box , he is cast adrift. But let's face it, at least he does excel in his chosen field.

 

EVH is perhaps the better guitarist, but Schenker is by far the better musician.

 

It's horses for courses.

I like Michael Schenker a lot. I enjoy his work with UFO and the first two Michael Schenker Group albums are very good. But, there is nothing on them that outshines Eddie's writing on those Roth-era albums. The riffs, the solos, the rhythm playing. I think Eddie really redefined rock guitar.. Schenker is very very good, but what has he redefined?

 

you're right, but schenker did at least help shape what metal guitar would become.

[custom55]

I get a warm fuzzy feeling when I hear EVH. That's what counts for me.

[RUSHHEAD666]

david lee roth is one of the smartest men alive.

All of this positive talk about David Lee Roth is making me warm and fuzzy! Fukk! Greatest frontman in ROCK PERIOD!!

Like I typed last night, stayed up late and watched a 1982 Van Halen concert. Roth was missing his lines. Something he did one hell of a lot in his career. I'm not coming up with excuses but the dude loved his Jack Daniels. Unless it was all an act. Personally I think he was wasted, yet he held it together for most of the show. Sometimes corny, sometimes a badass. Sometimes a buffoon on stage. Fukk it man. It doesn't mean anything to me. David Lee is a LEGEND!

One thing that bugs me are those Jim Dandy comparisons. Sure they look similar but Roth blows that fukking goofball away!

The best thing about Black Oak Arkansas is Tommy Aldridge! JMO

 

I was lucky enough to see the "1984" Tour at the Cow Palace. It blew my fuckking young 16 year old mind away!!!

I was them again with Sammy Hagar. "5150" Tour. It was so lame and sooooo boring I left early and hung out in the parking lot sucking on a pony keg.

Next time I saw them was with Gary Cherone. Like I've said before the show was pure shit except for "Mean Street" and "Someboy Get Me A Doctor" with Anthony on lead. KILLER SHIT!

 

So then I saw the 2008 Tour with David back in the band. I loved the show so much I went to the second show in the area.

I thought the band was fukking AWESOME!!! ROTH WAS AMAZING!!!

 

So then on the 2012 Tour I was going to go but I believe many shows were cancelled so I didn't go.

I read the reviews of that tour where pure shit. Luckily I have no opinion.

 

All I know is that ROTH HALEN DESTROYS SAM HALEN!!

I'm listening to a bootleg right now called VAN HALEN "ZER0." Demos and rare tracks! RAW! Great stuff!!

 

The first six Van Halen albums are six of the greatest albums on the earth!

 

Which thread is this again? LOL

[EagleMoon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aczbEqcHzCg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YnPKTo69CQ

 

the VH makes me miss the 80's lol!

The "Cathedral" section...how amazing is that?

 

That was amazing. Sorry but with these two comparisons there is no comparison. Eddie still wins by a mile.

[MMCXII]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aczbEqcHzCg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YnPKTo69CQ

 

the VH makes me miss the 80's lol!

The "Cathedral" section...how amazing is that?

 

That was amazing. Sorry but with these two comparisons there is no comparison. Eddie still wins by a mile.

 

Wow old thread! Ya I'd almost go for Eddy now. Maybe I'm getting burned out on UFO :P

[Rick N. Backer]

They're both great in their own right.

 

EVH really showed his limitations when he tried to "jam" with Holdsworth. He excels at one thing. If he steps outside that box , he is cast adrift. But let's face it, at least he does excel in his chosen field.

 

EVH is perhaps the better guitarist, but Schenker is by far the better musician.

 

It's horses for courses.

I like Michael Schenker a lot. I enjoy his work with UFO and the first two Michael Schenker Group albums are very good. But, there is nothing on them that outshines Eddie's writing on those Roth-era albums. The riffs, the solos, the rhythm playing. I think Eddie really redefined rock guitar.. Schenker is very very good, but what has he redefined?

 

This is spot on. You're comparing a great guitar player, of which there are many, with someone who basically every lead guitarist from 1980 to 1989 was impersonating.

[Rick N. Backer]

Roth-era Van Halen blows Hagar-era Van Halen out of the water.

 

Roth wrote and sang many great melodies. And, I personally think some of Roth's lyrics are very witty and intelligent.

 

When it comes to studio albums it's a taste thing. Personally I prefer the Hagar era but understand people who grew up with those old albums. It's true that Hagar era didn't give even one all-around great album, but the best pieces in f**k, 5150 and Balance are VH in its prime, imho.

 

Listen to Feelin', Take Me Back, Right Now and Mine all Mine for example... they're amazing songs with some great vocal performances. The songwriting was taken into another level in 5150... even Eddie admitted that. They were able to do SO much more with Hagar and his capabilities. But yeah... I understand people who like the old stuff more. It's like the old Rush vs. new Rush... useless to argue.

 

But when it comes to live performances, you gotta be deaf to say that Roth-era was better. I can't even watch those old VH lives anymore... Roth is absolutely HORRIBLE. Great frontman, yes... but a crappy vocalist.

 

Most of the greatest lead singers in rock history were great frontmen first and foremost. Mick Jagger, Ozzy Osbourne, Steven Tyler. Are any of them great vocal talents? No. But if rock were simply about technical skill, Tony Martin would be the greatest rock vocalist of all time, and Yngwie Malmsteen would be the greatest guitarist of all time. Jagger, Ozzy, Tyler, Roth, and many others just had "it" whatever that is.

 

I like the VH albums with Hagar a lot. But the first 6 Roth albums blow them all away.

[Detonator]

I don't think so. You're entitled to your opinion of course. ;)

 

4 of them are rock good albums... I agree.... not perfect as they have a lot of dumb "fillers" like Bottoms Up, And Diver Down and Women & Children First are mediocre at best.

 

I¨m in my 30's so I didn't grow up with the old Van Halen stuff and Roth. Maybe you're older guys and you did. So maybe, just maybe I view the discography differently because of that. ;)

[Rick N. Backer]

I don't think so. You're entitled to your opinion of course. ;)

 

4 of them are rock good albums... I agree.... not perfect as they have a lot of dumb "fillers" like Bottoms Up, And Diver Down and Women & Children First are mediocre at best.

 

I¨m in my 30's so I didn't grow up with the old Van Halen stuff and Roth. Maybe you're older guys and you did. So maybe, just maybe I view the discography differently because of that. ;)

 

Did you grow up with Moving Pictures? Are you a Beatles or Rolling Stones fan? I don't think you need to have been a teenager when something came out to love it.

 

I do agree you're entitled to think Van Hagar > Roth era VH.

[Xanadoood]

I just think hendrix has had more of an impact on rock guitar as a whole, EVH's influence is pretty much non-existent outside of metal/80s hard rock

 

Hendrix style is still modern. Same with Page. Eddies style is 80s. I never see any guitarists with a Floyd Rose. And two handed tapping? That's an 80s trademark technique. I love Eddie, but his influence stopped after about 1991 or so.

 

It's a damn shame. A lot of guys seem to think he was all flash, with no songwriting ability. I think he was one the greatest rythm players of all time, but people only hear the whammy bar and taps.

 

Edited December 26, 2014 by Xanadoood