Which Neil Do You Prefer?

[Kuolema]

QUOTE (DistantEarlyRushFan @ Aug 15 2012, 03:34 PM)

QUOTE (Kuolema @ Aug 14 2012, 04:54 PM) For Neil's drumming on Clockwork Angels, i was a little disappointed. I was expecting to hear again some ferocius rhytms and technical playing. Drums sounded a bit dull, uninspired... I love his playing overall and he is,of course, the greatest drummer ever been on earth. Obviously he is getting older and it is easier to play "improvisingly" than correctly on the beat. I would say that a Great drum track can make a good song to an excellent song. So compositional drumming would be better, but at his age this "new" style is refreshing and it adds groove and surprises to songs. Criticizing Neil's drumming with your first post, eh? Why don't you listen a little closer to the nuances in Neil's style of today? Maybe if you do you will find something you didn't hear before in terms of timing, structure, stylistic finesse and thematic progression Just wanted to post something for the joy of posting. Whoa. What a nice welcoming to the forums. And you know, don't give me advices.

[Ged Lent's sis]

Regarding the CA songs on tour and his quote thereof notwithstanding, I think the extent to which he will be improvising might be overstated. Let's face it: In spite of being one of the best live bands out there, RUSH is not known for improvisation as much as producing a great live experience while still remaining true to the compositions, for the most part. I reckon that the looseness you hear on CA will be reflected in concert, but that the parts won't be radically different. Of course, I could be wrong.

 

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Aug 14 2012, 03:56 PM)

if he's serious about what he said i welcome it.  if not it's going to be the same ole start off strong, into the highly boring electronic drums, and into the big band musical finish.    i'm torn between which part i hate more, the electronics part or the big band part.

While I don't agree about the electronics in general, I agree about the big-band stuff. I think his forays into that area reveal to a surprising degree how one of the world's most iconic rock drummers just cannot swing.

However, having been front and centre for the first tour with his rotating riser, that solo was fan-friggin-tastic.

[shail]

moving pictures to power windows neil was awesome. TFE to present neil not so awesome. the music of the last two albums is not challenging. straight forward stuff. no intricate drum parts on the last three albums efforts. no cool fills. no going down from small tom toms to lower tom toms fills. one song off of SNA he did go up and down the toms. it's a good thing they play lots of old stuff live so the guy doesn't get bored. at least he gave us some great stuff decades ago.

[Animate]

Nothing really to add except I fricken hate big band music. Am going to pull out the dreaded vomiting smiley on this one.... Would rather listen to country or classical music X1,000,000 then big band.

 

Improve will be interesting.... will be paying close attention to see how it comes off.

[Pound of Obscure]

QUOTE (shail @ Aug 16 2012, 10:42 AM)

no cool fills. no going down from small tom toms to lower tom toms fills. one song off of SNA he did go up and down the toms.

Well, he can't anymore. He doesn't have enough toms. When he tries, the gaping hole where is ride cymbal sits now makes it even more difficult. He can't play the old stuff correctly anymore, he has to modify the fills.

[presto123]

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Aug 16 2012, 11:28 AM)

QUOTE (shail @ Aug 16 2012, 10:42 AM) no cool fills. no going down from small tom toms to lower tom toms fills. one song off of SNA he did go up and down the toms. Well, he can't anymore. He doesn't have enough toms. When he tries, the gaping hole where is ride cymbal sits now makes it even more difficult. He can't play the old stuff correctly anymore, he has to modify the fills. I hope you're not serious with this post. As far as fills Neil is simply trying not to repeat himself as he did to a fault on the old records. He over-used that signature ride pattern to death. I bet it's on at least 30 songs. Neil said when SnA came out that he was conscious that most of his fills be something he hadn't done before. I'm a drummer and cut my teeth on all the old Rush stuff and believe me a pattern like the One Little Victory opening is just as cool and intricate as anything he has done in the past. In the past Neil was more concerned I think with making the drumming stand out and he would use ideas he came up with in practice just because he HAD to use them not necessarily if they were the best fit for the song. I think by the 80's he had honed his style down and helped cement his legendary status. Neil has nothing to prove now and he's coming from a different place as far as his approach to the drums. Still lots of cool drumming on the last three records but he's not going to do a long run down the toms just to impress people anymore.

[shail]

his fills are very basic fills. some fills are basic 8th note fills mixed around the kit. not even syncopated. hum drum stuff

[presto123]

QUOTE (shail @ Aug 16 2012, 06:00 PM)

his fills are very basic fills. some fills are basic 8th note fills mixed around the kit. not even syncopated. hum drum stuff

How difficult a fill is to play does not make it a good fill. A lot of the stuff he does now is subtle and more difficult to pull off the right feel. Obviously that stuff goes right over your head.

[goose]

QUOTE (losingit2k @ Aug 14 2012, 04:01 PM)

QUOTE (metaldad @ Aug 14 2012, 02:26 PM) Improv . He needs to totally revamp his solo and this is the way to do it . I think his solo's have become boring and predictable , this will change that I agree. I welcome the improvisized solo.   Hopefully he'll get back to the solos designed for rock shows, as opposed to the drum symposium solos he's developed. Super technical = super boring at a show for the general public.   More jam, less ham, please.

[goose]

QUOTE (presto123 @ Aug 16 2012, 06:25 PM)

QUOTE (shail @ Aug 16 2012, 06:00 PM) his fills are very basic fills. some fills are basic 8th note fills mixed around the kit. not even syncopated. hum drum stuff How difficult a fill is to play does not make it a good fill. A lot of the stuff he does now is subtle and more difficult to pull off the right feel. Obviously that stuff goes right over your head. Like you say, CA has more "feel" drumming, which I find lacking from some of the more overly mechanical drum parts he's developed since the synth age.   Different tastes, but the solo has become a bit of a drag. Hopefully improv will pick things up.

[goose]

QUOTE (Kuolema @ Aug 16 2012, 09:27 AM)

QUOTE (DistantEarlyRushFan @ Aug 15 2012, 03:34 PM) QUOTE (Kuolema @ Aug 14 2012, 04:54 PM) For Neil's drumming on Clockwork Angels, i was a little disappointed. I was expecting to hear again some ferocius rhytms and technical playing. Drums sounded a bit dull, uninspired... I love his playing overall and he is,of course, the greatest drummer ever been on earth. Obviously he is getting older and it is easier to play "improvisingly" than correctly on the beat. I would say that a Great drum track can make a good song to an excellent song. So compositional drumming would be better, but at his age this "new" style is refreshing and it adds groove and surprises to songs. Criticizing Neil's drumming with your first post, eh? Why don't you listen a little closer to the nuances in Neil's style of today? Maybe if you do you will find something you didn't hear before in terms of timing, structure, stylistic finesse and thematic progression Just wanted to post something for the joy of posting. Whoa. What a nice welcoming to the forums. And you know, don't give me advices. You did mention groove and surprise, which I enjoy. Neil hasn't had much of that in his solos for a while. Super technical stuff, super difficult stuff, but not super groovy or fun. (Although I like the swing part...and monkeys, in general)   Welcome, btw!

[presto123]

QUOTE (goose @ Aug 16 2012, 06:49 PM)

QUOTE (Kuolema @ Aug 16 2012, 09:27 AM) QUOTE (DistantEarlyRushFan @ Aug 15 2012, 03:34 PM) QUOTE (Kuolema @ Aug 14 2012, 04:54 PM) For Neil's drumming on Clockwork Angels, i was a little disappointed. I was expecting to hear again some ferocius rhytms and technical playing. Drums sounded a bit dull, uninspired... I love his playing overall and he is,of course, the greatest drummer ever been on earth. Obviously he is getting older and it is easier to play "improvisingly" than correctly on the beat. I would say that a Great drum track can make a good song to an excellent song. So compositional drumming would be better, but at his age this "new" style is refreshing and it adds groove and surprises to songs. Criticizing Neil's drumming with your first post, eh? Why don't you listen a little closer to the nuances in Neil's style of today? Maybe if you do you will find something you didn't hear before in terms of timing, structure, stylistic finesse and thematic progression Just wanted to post something for the joy of posting. Whoa. What a nice welcoming to the forums. And you know, don't give me advices. You did mention groove and surprise, which I enjoy. Neil hasn't had much of that in his solos for a while. Super technical stuff, super difficult stuff, but not super groovy or fun. (Although I like the swing part...and monkeys, in general)   Welcome, btw!   I agree with you there. He got away from the rhythmic solos which is what made them great. The Waltz part just kills the momentum of the solo as does the slowed down electronic part. If he starts kicking ass again the crowd response will show. There was a time when the drum solo got the loudest applause of the night.

[Pound of Obscure]

QUOTE (presto123 @ Aug 16 2012, 02:24 PM)

QUOTE (Pound of Obscure @ Aug 16 2012, 11:28 AM) QUOTE (shail @ Aug 16 2012, 10:42 AM) no cool fills. no going down from small tom toms to lower tom toms fills. one song off of SNA he did go up and down the toms. Well, he can't anymore. He doesn't have enough toms. When he tries, the gaping hole where is ride cymbal sits now makes it even more difficult. He can't play the old stuff correctly anymore, he has to modify the fills. I hope you're not serious with this post. As far as fills Neil is simply trying not to repeat himself as he did to a fault on the old records. He over-used that signature ride pattern to death. I bet it's on at least 30 songs. Neil said when SnA came out that he was conscious that most of his fills be something he hadn't done before. I'm a drummer and cut my teeth on all the old Rush stuff and believe me a pattern like the One Little Victory opening is just as cool and intricate as anything he has done in the past. In the past Neil was more concerned I think with making the drumming stand out and he would use ideas he came up with in practice just because he HAD to use them not necessarily if they were the best fit for the song. I think by the 80's he had honed his style down and helped cement his legendary status. Neil has nothing to prove now and he's coming from a different place as far as his approach to the drums. Still lots of cool drumming on the last three records but he's not going to do a long run down the toms just to impress people anymore. I understand what you're saying. Nevertheless, his drumming is much easier, less exciting than it used to be. I can get groove and feel and his new approach to fills, etc from anybody. Not overplaying is his primary concern now. One of the main components of what made Rush...Rush is absent. In this case, growth is less interesting. I do miss the old fills live. The compromised fills leave me wanting. Oh well.

[Mr. Not]

I preferred not an old grumpy douche Neil

[circumstantial tree]

QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 17 2012, 03:49 PM)

I preferred not an old grumpy douche Neil

[eshine]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 17 2012, 03:03 PM)

QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 17 2012, 03:49 PM) I preferred not an old grumpy douche Neil Yeah, cheers. I can't believe he had the audacity to act all old and grumpy after his 19 year old daughter crashed into a tree and his wife died of greif within a year of each other.   You guys are something else.   Neil is in a good place right now - very gregarious and more open then ever.   I welcome anything that brings him happiness. He has gone through things that would break many of us in half.

[goose]

QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 17 2012, 03:32 PM)

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 17 2012, 03:03 PM) QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 17 2012, 03:49 PM) I preferred not an old grumpy douche Neil Yeah, cheers. I can't believe he had the audacity to act all old and grumpy after his 19 year old daughter crashed into a tree and his wife died of greif within a year of each other.   You guys are something else.   Neil is in a good place right now - very gregarious and more open then ever.   I welcome anything that brings him happiness. He has gone through things that would break many of us in half. His recovery has been an amazing one, and it's a big reason why I love Vapor Trails, warts and all.   In the earlier posts defense, Neil has always been a bit of a grump. "Limelight" stands in stark contrast to sthe many anthems extolling the many highs of performing live as a professional musician. Today driving home I heard the Scorpions' "Wind of Change", and it made me think of Neil's post-eastern bloc song, where, as the world celebrated with joy the tumbling of the Wall and the end of the Soviet Union, Neil asks, cynically, "Who will pay?".   But "The Garden" shows how he's arrived and reconciled the darker side of his personality.

[Todem]

My favorite Neil drumming takes place:

 

Hemispheres - Counterparts.

 

 

Love his playing since......but I prefer his signature style before Freddy Gruber. Classic Neil is a technician with power and speed.

 

Today Neil is in the pocket and loose. Cool. But give me Permanent Waves, Moving Picture and Signals. His best three album run ever. Then add in Power Windows and Hold Your Fire as some of his best work too. Those albums we had the master honing his craft and at the peak of his mountain.

 

After Counterparts he went as far as he could with that style. So he reinvented himself.

 

I prefer his prime years that I mentioned.

[presto123]

QUOTE (Todem @ Aug 17 2012, 08:27 PM)

My favorite Neil drumming takes place: Hemispheres - Counterparts. Love his playing since......but I prefer his signature style before Freddy Gruber. Classic Neil is a technician with power and speed. Today Neil is in the pocket and loose. Cool. But give me Permanent Waves, Moving Picture and Signals. His best three album run ever. Then add in Power Windows and Hold Your Fire as some of his best work too. Those albums we had the master honing his craft and at the peak of his mountain. After Counterparts he went as far as he could with that style. So he reinvented himself. I prefer his prime years that I mentioned.

I agree. That's why I started this thread. I think he's a better drummer than he's ever been right now but since he changed his focus with Gruber there just aren't as many of those signature drum parts and moments. That's why I said I prefer him to be compositional Neil in the studio although I did argue with a few people calling his new stuff simple because it is not for the most part.

[Todem]

QUOTE (presto123 @ Aug 17 2012, 11:49 PM)

QUOTE (Todem @ Aug 17 2012, 08:27 PM) My favorite Neil drumming takes place: Hemispheres - Counterparts. Love his playing since......but I prefer his signature style before Freddy Gruber. Classic Neil is a technician with power and speed. Today Neil is in the pocket and loose. Cool. But give me Permanent Waves, Moving Picture and Signals. His best three album run ever. Then add in Power Windows and Hold Your Fire as some of his best work too. Those albums we had the master honing his craft and at the peak of his mountain. After Counterparts he went as far as he could with that style. So he reinvented himself. I prefer his prime years that I mentioned. I agree. That's why I started this thread. I think he's a better drummer than he's ever been right now but since he changed his focus with Gruber there just aren't as many of those signature drum parts and moments. That's why I said I prefer him to be compositional Neil in the studio although I did argue with a few people calling his new stuff simple because it is not for the most part. Neil is still a magician on the drum kit. No doubt.   He has more sublime moments these days. And it sounds sweet.   We got a taste of classic Neil on Carnies with that signature ride run.....wish they would have pulled that out in front a little more in the final mix. Live it is going to be crystal clear.   Holy crap I can't wait to see this tour!!!!!!!!

[eshine]

QUOTE (Todem @ Aug 17 2012, 11:13 PM)

Holy crap I can't wait to see this tour!!!!!!!!

YES!!

 

 

I cannot remember a time that I have anticipated new live Rush music more then this.

[Ghostnotes]

Go back to his original drum setup..pre Freddie for sure,then mix in his old style with a little of post Freddie.

 

Improv enough for me.....

[Bacchus Plateau]

I prefer the compositional Neil, circa Permanent Waves/ MP. Those drum parts were so meticulously written and nuanced, while still technically incredible. His CA drumming is a bit dull in my opinion as well. Don't get me wrong, still technically ridiculous in places, but repetitive in others. It just doesn't grab me as a whole like his late 70s and early 80s pieces which combined prowess and power with a great feel for what a particular part of the song needed, like one little splash cymbal hit or changing a tom pattern from fill to fill. This is coming from a fan and drummer perspective. That said, can't wait to see a more improvised solo.

[Mr. Not]

QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 17 2012, 12:32 PM)

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 17 2012, 03:03 PM) QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 17 2012, 03:49 PM) I preferred not an old grumpy douche Neil Yeah, cheers. I can't believe he had the audacity to act all old and grumpy after his 19 year old daughter crashed into a tree and his wife died of greif within a year of each other.   You guys are something else.   Neil is in a good place right now - very gregarious and more open then ever.   I welcome anything that brings him happiness. He has gone through things that would break many of us in half. Everyone has problems, and loved ones dying sooner or later is a guarantee.   If you think that what Neil experienced is exceptionally tragic, I recommend talking to more people about their troubles and how they fixed themselves through it.   Negativity breeds negativity, Neil is nowhere near as wise as you would like to think.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Mr. IsNot

[eshine]

QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 18 2012, 01:08 PM)

QUOTE (eshine @ Aug 17 2012, 12:32 PM) QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Aug 17 2012, 03:03 PM) QUOTE (Mr. IsNot @ Aug 17 2012, 03:49 PM) I preferred not an old grumpy douche Neil Yeah, cheers. I can't believe he had the audacity to act all old and grumpy after his 19 year old daughter crashed into a tree and his wife died of greif within a year of each other.   You guys are something else.   Neil is in a good place right now - very gregarious and more open then ever.   I welcome anything that brings him happiness. He has gone through things that would break many of us in half. Everyone has problems, and loved ones dying sooner or later is a guarantee.   If you think that what Neil experienced is exceptionally tragic, I recommend talking to more people about their troubles and how they fixed themselves through it.   Negativity breeds negativity, Neil is nowhere near as wise as you would like to think. What a load of crap.   Many of us here are middle aged and have all experienced loss.   However, I doubt that many of us have lost our entire immediate family -our entire WORLD - in one fell swoop.   And I never suggested he was a superhero. He is a human and handled the experience like a human. It is disgusting to me that people like you try and minimize his loss.   You should be ashamed of yourself.