2012 MLB season thread

[laughedatbytime]

 

MLB

For first time since 1996, the Baseball Writers Association of America has elected no one to the Hall of Fame.

 

 

haha good job guys!

 

I'm sad that Schilling only got 38% of the vote (coincidentally enough). Its hard to think of any pitcher since I started following baseball in 1975 that was more consistently dominant in post season play. I thought we measured players by how they did when it mattered most? He lost two games. One of those losses came when his ankle tendon tore off the bone.

I read that it has only happened 8 times since 1936 but the ceremony will be held anyway. Three pre-integration era players are to be honoured. They have been dead at least 74 years.

 

It is a tricky question. Yes, steroids were part of the game and everyone (it seems) did them back then. That doesn't make it right - it is just a lot of people being wrong. I hope Clemens and Bonds never get in. I heard a commentator who was of the opinion the only player to be denied for all time will be Manny. A real shame (imo) - he was perhaps the best natural hitter to play the game and the RedSox have two WS rings because of him (a notion which I know gets the hackles up on RedSox nation) - again, imo.

 

Schilling? Certainly, the bloody sock is one of the most indelible images in all of baseball. Is he a HOF pitcher? Maybe. 20 year career, 216-146 with a 3.46 ERA and 3116 K (his numbers seem to be there) though his contemporaries were better, imo (Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson - all of whom I think will get in). Schilling was always in the mix and a fine pitcher. I hope he does get in.

 

I'd like to see Jack Morris also.

The me, this collective snub is hypocrisy of the worst kind. These voters all looked the other way while these players were reviving the near dead sport of professional baseball. The home run races fueled by the athletes' peformance on the field sold tickets, brought tv views, sold magazines, sold jerseys, and financed the building of the new super stadiums. Now, after all the hangers on cashed in, the voters take the high road. It's crap.

 

Collectively baseball needs to own the culture it created and profited from, and seperate this from the what these athletes achieved during the era. Remember, Gaylord Perry, one of the biggest cheaters ever, is in the Hall.

http://bleacherrepor...of-fame-cheater

 

Two quotes I like from this article...

 

Perry wrote, "I became an outlaw in the strictest sense of the word—a man who lives outside the law, in this case the law of baseball."

 

 

Cheating in Baseball

 

Cheating is pervasive in baseball, ranging from "gamesmanship" to violence.

 

Groundskeepers cut the infield grass short or allow it to grow, depending on which would help the home team.

 

Great interview with Tom Verducci on this topic:

 

http://audio.weei.co...all-of-fame.htm

I object to the notion of other guys "playing the game clean". They may not have done steroids, but you'll be hard pressed to name guys in the Hall that played the game clean, meaning substance free. I just don't buy the idea that using 'roids is worse than the subsatnce abuse that was rampant during the 70's and 80's.

 

As far as "I'm not sure what we were supposed to do?", how about call guys out? The douche on this radio show talks about taking MLB players at their word...what crap. "You can't print rumors". BS. They do it all the time.

 

Banning these guys hurts the Hall. It hurts baseball. If Frank Thomas and Craig Biggio get in over Bonds...

Are you talking about amphetamines? If so, then you're probably right.

 

As for Bonds, he does deserve to get in based on his pre 98 stats, if he would have retired then. Since he didn't play steroid free after that is it fair to reject his entire career? I say yes, but it's reasonable to argue otherwise.

 

Biggio and Thomas deserve to be in by any reasonable standard, and Bagwell, though it's closer, does too. Too many people think the baseball HOF is more exclusive than it is...they would probably be in the top half of players at their position in the Hall.

[goose]

 

MLB

For first time since 1996, the Baseball Writers Association of America has elected no one to the Hall of Fame.

 

 

haha good job guys!

 

I'm sad that Schilling only got 38% of the vote (coincidentally enough). Its hard to think of any pitcher since I started following baseball in 1975 that was more consistently dominant in post season play. I thought we measured players by how they did when it mattered most? He lost two games. One of those losses came when his ankle tendon tore off the bone.

I read that it has only happened 8 times since 1936 but the ceremony will be held anyway. Three pre-integration era players are to be honoured. They have been dead at least 74 years.

 

It is a tricky question. Yes, steroids were part of the game and everyone (it seems) did them back then. That doesn't make it right - it is just a lot of people being wrong. I hope Clemens and Bonds never get in. I heard a commentator who was of the opinion the only player to be denied for all time will be Manny. A real shame (imo) - he was perhaps the best natural hitter to play the game and the RedSox have two WS rings because of him (a notion which I know gets the hackles up on RedSox nation) - again, imo.

 

Schilling? Certainly, the bloody sock is one of the most indelible images in all of baseball. Is he a HOF pitcher? Maybe. 20 year career, 216-146 with a 3.46 ERA and 3116 K (his numbers seem to be there) though his contemporaries were better, imo (Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson - all of whom I think will get in). Schilling was always in the mix and a fine pitcher. I hope he does get in.

 

I'd like to see Jack Morris also.

The me, this collective snub is hypocrisy of the worst kind. These voters all looked the other way while these players were reviving the near dead sport of professional baseball. The home run races fueled by the athletes' peformance on the field sold tickets, brought tv views, sold magazines, sold jerseys, and financed the building of the new super stadiums. Now, after all the hangers on cashed in, the voters take the high road. It's crap.

 

Collectively baseball needs to own the culture it created and profited from, and seperate this from the what these athletes achieved during the era. Remember, Gaylord Perry, one of the biggest cheaters ever, is in the Hall.

http://bleacherrepor...of-fame-cheater

 

Two quotes I like from this article...

 

Perry wrote, "I became an outlaw in the strictest sense of the word—a man who lives outside the law, in this case the law of baseball."

 

 

Cheating in Baseball

 

Cheating is pervasive in baseball, ranging from "gamesmanship" to violence.

 

Groundskeepers cut the infield grass short or allow it to grow, depending on which would help the home team.

 

Great interview with Tom Verducci on this topic:

 

http://audio.weei.co...all-of-fame.htm

I object to the notion of other guys "playing the game clean". They may not have done steroids, but you'll be hard pressed to name guys in the Hall that played the game clean, meaning substance free. I just don't buy the idea that using 'roids is worse than the subsatnce abuse that was rampant during the 70's and 80's.

 

As far as "I'm not sure what we were supposed to do?", how about call guys out? The douche on this radio show talks about taking MLB players at their word...what crap. "You can't print rumors". BS. They do it all the time.

 

Banning these guys hurts the Hall. It hurts baseball. If Frank Thomas and Craig Biggio get in over Bonds...

Are you talking about amphetamines? If so, then you're probably right.

 

As for Bonds, he does deserve to get in based on his pre 98 stats, if he would have retired then. Since he didn't play steroid free after that is it fair to reject his entire career? I say yes, but it's reasonable to argue otherwise.

 

Biggio and Thomas deserve to be in by any reasonable standard, and Bagwell, though it's closer, does too. Too many people think the baseball HOF is more exclusive than it is...they would probably be in the top half of players at their position in the Hall.

You think those guys played clean?

[Rick N. Backer]

 

MLB

For first time since 1996, the Baseball Writers Association of America has elected no one to the Hall of Fame.

 

 

haha good job guys!

 

I'm sad that Schilling only got 38% of the vote (coincidentally enough). Its hard to think of any pitcher since I started following baseball in 1975 that was more consistently dominant in post season play. I thought we measured players by how they did when it mattered most? He lost two games. One of those losses came when his ankle tendon tore off the bone.

I read that it has only happened 8 times since 1936 but the ceremony will be held anyway. Three pre-integration era players are to be honoured. They have been dead at least 74 years.

 

It is a tricky question. Yes, steroids were part of the game and everyone (it seems) did them back then. That doesn't make it right - it is just a lot of people being wrong. I hope Clemens and Bonds never get in. I heard a commentator who was of the opinion the only player to be denied for all time will be Manny. A real shame (imo) - he was perhaps the best natural hitter to play the game and the RedSox have two WS rings because of him (a notion which I know gets the hackles up on RedSox nation) - again, imo.

 

Schilling? Certainly, the bloody sock is one of the most indelible images in all of baseball. Is he a HOF pitcher? Maybe. 20 year career, 216-146 with a 3.46 ERA and 3116 K (his numbers seem to be there) though his contemporaries were better, imo (Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson - all of whom I think will get in). Schilling was always in the mix and a fine pitcher. I hope he does get in.

 

I'd like to see Jack Morris also.

The me, this collective snub is hypocrisy of the worst kind. These voters all looked the other way while these players were reviving the near dead sport of professional baseball. The home run races fueled by the athletes' peformance on the field sold tickets, brought tv views, sold magazines, sold jerseys, and financed the building of the new super stadiums. Now, after all the hangers on cashed in, the voters take the high road. It's crap.

 

Collectively baseball needs to own the culture it created and profited from, and seperate this from the what these athletes achieved during the era. Remember, Gaylord Perry, one of the biggest cheaters ever, is in the Hall.

http://bleacherrepor...of-fame-cheater

 

Two quotes I like from this article...

 

Perry wrote, "I became an outlaw in the strictest sense of the word—a man who lives outside the law, in this case the law of baseball."

 

 

Cheating in Baseball

 

Cheating is pervasive in baseball, ranging from "gamesmanship" to violence.

 

Groundskeepers cut the infield grass short or allow it to grow, depending on which would help the home team.

 

Great interview with Tom Verducci on this topic:

 

http://audio.weei.co...all-of-fame.htm

I object to the notion of other guys "playing the game clean". They may not have done steroids, but you'll be hard pressed to name guys in the Hall that played the game clean, meaning substance free. I just don't buy the idea that using 'roids is worse than the subsatnce abuse that was rampant during the 70's and 80's.

 

As far as "I'm not sure what we were supposed to do?", how about call guys out? The douche on this radio show talks about taking MLB players at their word...what crap. "You can't print rumors". BS. They do it all the time.

 

Banning these guys hurts the Hall. It hurts baseball. If Frank Thomas and Craig Biggio get in over Bonds...

 

I don't agree. Steroids have always been illegal in baseball because you can't take them without a legitimate prescription. Using them is different from using amphetamines. While they don't help you hit a baseball, or throw strikes, they made players stronger, able to work out longer, and less likely to break down or wear out as the season went on. Former Sox GM Dan Duquette (now the Orioles' GM) said Clemens was in the twilight of his career in 1996. He was right. But Clemens went on to have several successful seasons for the next 11 years. Now we know why. As for Bonds, he was able to hit 73 home runs so soon after McGwire hit 70, so late in his career, even though no one hit 50 between 1977 and 1990. Someone hit at least 50 every year between 1995 and 2002. That tells you all you need to know about why steroids are different. The fact that Bonds and Clemens were Hall of Famers before they elected to cheat doesn't change the fact that they cheated. They should never get in.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Rick N. Backer

[laughedatbytime]

 

MLB

For first time since 1996, the Baseball Writers Association of America has elected no one to the Hall of Fame.

 

 

haha good job guys!

 

I'm sad that Schilling only got 38% of the vote (coincidentally enough). Its hard to think of any pitcher since I started following baseball in 1975 that was more consistently dominant in post season play. I thought we measured players by how they did when it mattered most? He lost two games. One of those losses came when his ankle tendon tore off the bone.

I read that it has only happened 8 times since 1936 but the ceremony will be held anyway. Three pre-integration era players are to be honoured. They have been dead at least 74 years.

 

It is a tricky question. Yes, steroids were part of the game and everyone (it seems) did them back then. That doesn't make it right - it is just a lot of people being wrong. I hope Clemens and Bonds never get in. I heard a commentator who was of the opinion the only player to be denied for all time will be Manny. A real shame (imo) - he was perhaps the best natural hitter to play the game and the RedSox have two WS rings because of him (a notion which I know gets the hackles up on RedSox nation) - again, imo.

 

Schilling? Certainly, the bloody sock is one of the most indelible images in all of baseball. Is he a HOF pitcher? Maybe. 20 year career, 216-146 with a 3.46 ERA and 3116 K (his numbers seem to be there) though his contemporaries were better, imo (Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson - all of whom I think will get in). Schilling was always in the mix and a fine pitcher. I hope he does get in.

 

I'd like to see Jack Morris also.

The me, this collective snub is hypocrisy of the worst kind. These voters all looked the other way while these players were reviving the near dead sport of professional baseball. The home run races fueled by the athletes' peformance on the field sold tickets, brought tv views, sold magazines, sold jerseys, and financed the building of the new super stadiums. Now, after all the hangers on cashed in, the voters take the high road. It's crap.

 

Collectively baseball needs to own the culture it created and profited from, and seperate this from the what these athletes achieved during the era. Remember, Gaylord Perry, one of the biggest cheaters ever, is in the Hall.

http://bleacherrepor...of-fame-cheater

 

Two quotes I like from this article...

 

Perry wrote, "I became an outlaw in the strictest sense of the word—a man who lives outside the law, in this case the law of baseball."

 

 

Cheating in Baseball

 

Cheating is pervasive in baseball, ranging from "gamesmanship" to violence.

 

Groundskeepers cut the infield grass short or allow it to grow, depending on which would help the home team.

 

Great interview with Tom Verducci on this topic:

 

http://audio.weei.co...all-of-fame.htm

I object to the notion of other guys "playing the game clean". They may not have done steroids, but you'll be hard pressed to name guys in the Hall that played the game clean, meaning substance free. I just don't buy the idea that using 'roids is worse than the subsatnce abuse that was rampant during the 70's and 80's.

 

As far as "I'm not sure what we were supposed to do?", how about call guys out? The douche on this radio show talks about taking MLB players at their word...what crap. "You can't print rumors". BS. They do it all the time.

 

Banning these guys hurts the Hall. It hurts baseball. If Frank Thomas and Craig Biggio get in over Bonds...

Are you talking about amphetamines? If so, then you're probably right.

 

As for Bonds, he does deserve to get in based on his pre 98 stats, if he would have retired then. Since he didn't play steroid free after that is it fair to reject his entire career? I say yes, but it's reasonable to argue otherwise.

 

Biggio and Thomas deserve to be in by any reasonable standard, and Bagwell, though it's closer, does too. Too many people think the baseball HOF is more exclusive than it is...they would probably be in the top half of players at their position in the Hall.

You think those guys played clean?

Depends on what you mean by clean? If you're talking about steroids, I doubt it, though we'll never know with 100% certainty. The reason I believe that is two fold...

 

1) Neither of their bodies seemed to me to show the massive changes some of the known users' bodies (esp Barry's) did.

2) Their statistical career arcs didn't show the pattern than so many users' did. Thomas came to the majors and was dominant right away, I remember reading that Bill James, about 7-8 years into his career, comparing him as a hitter to Ted Williams (not that he was as good, but that the comparison wouldn't be a complete embarrassment to Thomas). Bagwell was a great hitter right away too.

[CygnusGal]

 

MLB

For first time since 1996, the Baseball Writers Association of America has elected no one to the Hall of Fame.

 

 

haha good job guys!

 

I'm sad that Schilling only got 38% of the vote (coincidentally enough). Its hard to think of any pitcher since I started following baseball in 1975 that was more consistently dominant in post season play. I thought we measured players by how they did when it mattered most? He lost two games. One of those losses came when his ankle tendon tore off the bone.

I read that it has only happened 8 times since 1936 but the ceremony will be held anyway. Three pre-integration era players are to be honoured. They have been dead at least 74 years.

 

It is a tricky question. Yes, steroids were part of the game and everyone (it seems) did them back then. That doesn't make it right - it is just a lot of people being wrong. I hope Clemens and Bonds never get in. I heard a commentator who was of the opinion the only player to be denied for all time will be Manny. A real shame (imo) - he was perhaps the best natural hitter to play the game and the RedSox have two WS rings because of him (a notion which I know gets the hackles up on RedSox nation) - again, imo.

 

Schilling? Certainly, the bloody sock is one of the most indelible images in all of baseball. Is he a HOF pitcher? Maybe. 20 year career, 216-146 with a 3.46 ERA and 3116 K (his numbers seem to be there) though his contemporaries were better, imo (Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Randy Johnson - all of whom I think will get in). Schilling was always in the mix and a fine pitcher. I hope he does get in.

 

I'd like to see Jack Morris also.

The me, this collective snub is hypocrisy of the worst kind. These voters all looked the other way while these players were reviving the near dead sport of professional baseball. The home run races fueled by the athletes' peformance on the field sold tickets, brought tv views, sold magazines, sold jerseys, and financed the building of the new super stadiums. Now, after all the hangers on cashed in, the voters take the high road. It's crap.

 

Collectively baseball needs to own the culture it created and profited from, and seperate this from the what these athletes achieved during the era. Remember, Gaylord Perry, one of the biggest cheaters ever, is in the Hall.

http://bleacherrepor...of-fame-cheater

 

Two quotes I like from this article...

 

Perry wrote, "I became an outlaw in the strictest sense of the word—a man who lives outside the law, in this case the law of baseball."

 

 

Cheating in Baseball

 

Cheating is pervasive in baseball, ranging from "gamesmanship" to violence.

 

Groundskeepers cut the infield grass short or allow it to grow, depending on which would help the home team.

 

Great interview with Tom Verducci on this topic:

 

http://audio.weei.co...all-of-fame.htm

I object to the notion of other guys "playing the game clean". They may not have done steroids, but you'll be hard pressed to name guys in the Hall that played the game clean, meaning substance free. I just don't buy the idea that using 'roids is worse than the subsatnce abuse that was rampant during the 70's and 80's.

 

As far as "I'm not sure what we were supposed to do?", how about call guys out? The douche on this radio show talks about taking MLB players at their word...what crap. "You can't print rumors". BS. They do it all the time.

 

Banning these guys hurts the Hall. It hurts baseball. If Frank Thomas and Craig Biggio get in over Bonds...

Are you talking about amphetamines? If so, then you're probably right.

 

As for Bonds, he does deserve to get in based on his pre 98 stats, if he would have retired then. Since he didn't play steroid free after that is it fair to reject his entire career? I say yes, but it's reasonable to argue otherwise.

 

Biggio and Thomas deserve to be in by any reasonable standard, and Bagwell, though it's closer, does too. Too many people think the baseball HOF is more exclusive than it is...they would probably be in the top half of players at their position in the Hall.

You think those guys played clean?

Depends on what you mean by clean? If you're talking about steroids, I doubt it, though we'll never know with 100% certainty. The reason I believe that is two fold...

 

1) Neither of their bodies seemed to me to show the massive changes some of the known users' bodies (esp Barry's) did.

2) Their statistical career arcs didn't show the pattern than so many users' did. Thomas came to the majors and was dominant right away, I remember reading that Bill James, about 7-8 years into his career, comparing him as a hitter to Ted Williams (not that he was as good, but that the comparison wouldn't be a complete embarrassment to Thomas). Bagwell was a great hitter right away too.

Cheating has always been part of baseball. Brett's pine tar, runners stealing signs, Perry's "spitball", to name but a few examples. That's the game. The lesson is defend yourself. Sometimes, the line gets crossed though. Don't bet on baseball teams while you're managing one. Don't intentionally throw a game or a series.

 

The issue I have with steroids is that the HR numbers are artificially inflated. Hitting a baseball is, arguably, the hardest thing to do in sports. Steroids only made the ball go farther, it didn't increase someone's ability to hit. Perhaps, it even hurt one's hitting ability with the increased muscle mass - can you still get a good swing or do all of those huge muscles get in the way?

 

Bonds defies that argument though and that is why he will eventually get in (imo) - he was a great hitter. He just hit way more homeruns than he should have. Clemens is more complex.

 

Banning them hurts the HoF? Well, I'm not sure about that. Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe were banned from baseball for life and can never be enshrined. I don't think that hurts the HoF. Granted, the steroid users weren't banned from baseball for life (though Manny danced the line) but they did skew the numbers and allowing players with artificially high career numbers into the HoF skews the Hall. To me, that seems far more detrimental to the HoF and to baseball. Just because seemingly everyone was doing it doesn't make it right.

 

Baseball needs to acknowledge the era though - an asterisk, a special wing? Something.

[barney_rebel]

SOB!!

 

 

I am seeing this for sure!

[RUSHHEAD666]

SOB!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3G4E2ael8&sns=fb

 

I am seeing this for sure!

 

This movie looks EPIC!

[barney_rebel]

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=414736

[barney_rebel]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/photos-marlins-fans-turn-winter-warm-event-220646017--mlb.html