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Length of Clockwork Angels?


The Owl
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So, the question is twofold...

 

1. How long do you think CWA's running time will be..

 

and

 

2. How long do you want it to be....

 

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

I think the album will be in the range as the last few studio releases.. in the 55- 65 minute range.....we know there will be the "epic multi piece title track" which I am am not gonna put longer than 15 minutes... and that is 1 of the "5 or 6 songs that are finished" already... don't know if Caravan and BU2B are counted in that number or not.... but lets for argument say yes....

 

 

 

But I kind of wish they would kind of release a shorter album, say no longer that 50 minutes or so... even though the last few albums have been longer, you cannot ignore that there is alot of filler on some of the albums.... I'd rather have a solid 45 or 50 minutes of music than a 75 minute hit and miss album..

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I predict a 54-57 minute album. I would like it to be either 70 minutes or 42-45. I have my reasons. 1287.gif

 

If it's 70, I think it could work.

Caravan and BU2B are about 10 minutes, add a 7 minute piece, a 6 minute instrumental, a really beautiful and lengthy ambient piece (let's see 2.gif do this.) at about 8 minutes, three more 4:30-5:30 minute long song. A Natural Science like piece at about 9 minuted, and the epic at 15 minutes or so.

 

They say it will have lots of variety and "longer songs."

 

And if not that, this 42-45 minute format would work quite nicely:

Caravan and BU2B and another song about the same length. A new unique instrumental at 8 minutes.

Side 2 cool.gif

The epic biggrin.gif

 

Speaking of variety, i've noticed something. Caravan is about the proggiest 2.gif has been in a while and they say themselves this is a return to those days blended with the "now." Caravan is very modern and classic 2.gif while I personally enjoy it a lot, and while it is a great song, I think most would agree that it is a strong piece but definitely nowhere close to the anthemic Freewill and classic Tom Sawyer. But it is fresh and has all 2.gif elements. bU2B has some atoll influence, which shows Rush have been inspired by current bands, and it is still very familiar to Rush fans. I can see the third track being a softer Rush tune, almost like Porcupine Tree in the middle of their career. And if there will be an instrumental, it won't touch la villa but it will be almost as long. And the epic will be very good, i hope.

Edited by Good,bad,andrush
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QUOTE (Good,bad,andrush @ Jun 30 2011, 08:04 PM)


And if not that, this 42-45 minute format would work quite nicely:
Caravan and BU2B and another song about the same length. A new unique instrumental at 8 minutes.
Side 2 cool.gif
The epic biggrin.gif

That would be the most ideal scenario imaginable... unfortunately, it is no longer 1978

 

 

Plus they've already mentioned they had at least 5 or 6 songs written... don't know if that includes BU2B, and Caravan?

 

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I'd like a 35-45 minute long album full of great material, instead of a 65-70 minute album, like Vapor Trails and S&A, with some good songs and a bunch of decent/poor songs. I like to listen to full albums, and it is hard to sit and listen to a 70 minute album full of filler.
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QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 30 2011, 08:11 PM)
QUOTE (Good @ bad,andrush,Jun 30 2011, 08:04 PM)


And if not that, this 42-45 minute format would work quite nicely:
Caravan and BU2B and another song about the same length. A new unique instrumental at 8 minutes.
Side 2  cool.gif
The epic  biggrin.gif

That would be the most ideal scenario imaginable... unfortunately, it is no longer 1978

 

 

Plus they've already mentioned they had at least 5 or 6 songs written... don't know if that includes BU2B, and Caravan?

I know but the format could work with perhaps the instrumental on side 2 and another two songs on side one. It will be longer and won't really have sides of course, but it would surely feel like it, and that would be a 7 song record clocking in at nearly 60 minutes; i don't think there would be filler...it would seem almost like Caravan and BU2B would be the worst songs.I love the songs personally; I love all rush, even though I rarely listen to anything but hemispheres due to the fact that I am discovering so much music right now for the sake of being a betteer musician...but I think the first two songs are just decent by other people's standards. If there were only five other songs, one of which would be an instrumental and the other an epic, I don't see how the album would have filler. The most filler would be BU2B.

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It'll be double live Gonzo, with 77 minutes of Rush goodness on each disk. The 2 tracks we've heard, plus 22 others. That's right.....we're going around that clock TWICE people!

 

1022.gif

 

Seriously, I have no idea. I guess this is sort of a pipe dream.

 

Emphasis on the word "pipe" cool10.gif

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QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 30 2011, 09:14 PM)
The 2 tracks we've heard, plus 22 others.

No wonder there's so much talk of it being their last album...that's three albums' worth right there, they can hang it up and we'll be set the rest of our lives tongue.gif (mmm, almost...)

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QUOTE (1 of the 7 @ Jun 30 2011, 10:19 PM)
QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 30 2011, 09:14 PM)
The 2 tracks we've heard, plus 22 others.

No wonder there's so much talk of it being their last album...that's three albums' worth right there, they can hang it up and we'll be set the rest of our lives tongue.gif (mmm, almost...)

Look at it this way.....they could play TSOR, the whole Clockwork Angels album, and Tom Sawyer and call it a concert. laugh.gif

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QUOTE (ReRushed @ Jun 30 2011, 07:51 PM)
Like all Rush albums post-Power Windows, the running time will be too long.

I want it to be less than 40 minutes.

Think you've nailed it. I agree that from Hold Your Fire on the running time has been too long, and I think you can point to at least 1 track on each of those records that could have (maybe should have) been left off.

 

I'd like it to be right about 45 minutes, about the longest any of their greatest have run. Even 40.

 

I'm actually going to be optimistic on this one though. As I was watching Caravan at Concord the other night I was thinking about how good it sounded, and how promising Caravan and BU2B are in terms of where they're going. Add to that that Geddy has indicated that they are toying with at least one really long song. If that is true, let's just say it comes in at between 11 and 20 minutes, then this disc will have between 7 and 8 songs in a format similar to Moving Pictures or A Farewell to Kings. They have also alluded to a concept, even if loose. If that is also true, I'm curious as to how that might shape the time frame.

 

I will say that there is some wiggle room here though, but only if it's done really well. I think Porcupine Tree's The Incident could be a sort of footprint of how to add 5 - 10 minutes to the recording, but my preference is that they don't.

 

Alex and Geddy have said that they have about 6 songs now. It seems that if they keep it to 7 or 8 songs they could be done in the timeframe that Geddy is claiming of end of this year and still take July and most of August off before returning to the studio.

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QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Jun 30 2011, 08:16 PM)
Caravan/Bu2B
18 minute epic
8 minute instrumental
3 songs about the length of Caravan

I would love to see this (but maybe 3 songs a bit shorter than Caravan, 2 really kicking, one mellow/atmospheric).

 

Anyone else feel Caravan is the opening track? Apologies if that's already been discussed.

Edited by moving_signals
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I'm predicting we're looking at at least an hour's worth of Clockwork Angels. I would love it to be no shorter than 45 minutes.

 

And I'm guessing at about 12 songs would be on the album.

 

Just sayin'. >.>

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QUOTE (Rush Cocky @ Jun 30 2011, 09:45 PM)
QUOTE (moving_signals @ Jun 30 2011, 10:36 PM)
Anyone else feel Caravan is the opening track?

I feel that Caravan and BU2B are the opening TWO tracks, actually.

Cool. I could see that. Interesting how they've been doing them in the other order for Time Machine, but the way Caravan opens, both musically and lyrically, it has to be the opener.

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Time is an illusion.

Even if RTB had only 8 songs I still wouldn't like half the album.

MP isn't great because it has only 7 songs. It's great because those 7 songs are great.

Less is not necessarily more. It's just....less.

Simply, I want quality. I don't care if that means 6, 8, or 12 songs.

 

 

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QUOTE (JohnnyBlaze @ Jun 30 2011, 11:21 PM)
Time is an illusion.
Even if RTB had only 8 songs I still wouldn't like half the album.
MP isn't great because it has only 7 songs. It's great because those 7 songs are great.
Less is not necessarily more. It's just....less.
Simply, I want quality. I don't care if that means 6, 8, or 12 songs.

I understand where you're coming from. I agree that less songs doesn't mean the album is going to be good, however I think less songs means more focus on each of the songs. I also agree that a short record doesn't make it good, there are plenty of great, longer albums, I just don't think Rush has made one of them.

 

To me Rush is at their best when they focus their ideas into less songs with more twists and turns within each of those songs. The songs can be long and intricate or short and sweet, but the best Rush albums have always clocked in at 46 minutes or less and have been in the ballpark of 8 songs or less. I think there is a correlation to that and Rush in specific. Just my opinion, of course.

 

As you said, Moving Pictures isn't great because it's 40 minutes long or has just 7 songs, it's great because those 7 songs all rock. But there is also nothing wasted. I don't think they could have added one more song, or even another minute to that record and have it mean any more that it does as it stands. When I listen to albums like Presto (which I really like most of) I feel like it suffers because they didn't know when to stop. They could have left off Superconductor, Anagram and perhaps Chain Lightning, left everything else as it is and it would be a much better album. I could make that case for every record since Hold Your Fire. Roll the Bones however is an exception. I'd have to agree with you that half that record, maybe more could have been cut out and it still wouldn't help, and I actually really liked it when it first came out. As it ages, I see 4, maybe 5 songs there that I can listen to, and I consider it one of their weakest records.

Edited by moving_signals
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My guess is that the 'epic song' isn't longer than 10-11 minutes, then with 'BU2B' and 'Caravan' we have almost 20 min. So overall I think we will get a maximum of 60 minutes of new music distributed on a maximum of 10 songs.

 

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What it will be ? 60-ish mins

 

What would I like it to be ? 40 or so

 

Yes, the beauty of MP is that those 40 or so minutes are so good, but if MP was coming out today there would probably be at least 3 other songs on there that weren't good enough to make it onto the original vinyl running time.

 

Yet another reason vinyl was/is better.

Edited by toscanobarga
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I'm predicting the album will consist of the following:

 

1. Caravan (5 min)

2. BU2B (5 min)

3. (4 min song)

4. (3 min song)

5. (4 min song)

6. (5 min song)

7. (3 min song)

8. (5 min instrumental)

9. (2 min acoustic piece)

10. (3 min of bats squeaking and trickling water)

11. (The multi-piece epic title track at a whopping 7 minutes)

12. (a short 1 minute closer, with Alex throwing up at the end)

 

So the grand total would be 47 minutes.

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QUOTE (Good,bad,andrush @ Jun 30 2011, 09:04 PM)
I predict a 54-57 minute album. I would like it to be either 70 minutes or 42-45. I have my reasons. 1287.gif

If it's 70, I think it could work.
Caravan and BU2B are about 10 minutes, add a 7 minute piece, a 6 minute instrumental, a really beautiful and lengthy ambient piece (let's see 2.gif do this.) at about 8 minutes, three more 4:30-5:30 minute long song. A Natural Science like piece at about 9 minuted, and the epic at 15 minutes or so.

They say it will have lots of variety and "longer songs."

And if not that, this 42-45 minute format would work quite nicely:
Caravan and BU2B and another song about the same length. A new unique instrumental at 8 minutes.
Side 2 cool.gif
The epic biggrin.gif

Speaking of variety, i've noticed something. Caravan is about the proggiest 2.gif has been in a while and they say themselves this is a return to those days blended with the "now." Caravan is very modern and classic 2.gif while I personally enjoy it a lot, and while it is a great song, I think most would agree that it is a strong piece but definitely nowhere close to the anthemic Freewill and classic Tom Sawyer. But it is fresh and has all 2.gif elements. bU2B has some atoll influence, which shows Rush have been inspired by current bands, and it is still very familiar to Rush fans. I can see the third track being a softer Rush tune, almost like Porcupine Tree in the middle of their career. And if there will be an instrumental, it won't touch la villa but it will be almost as long. And the epic will be very good, i hope.

Agreed. That epic had better be more than 20 minutes though. However, I expect it will be 15 and be more disappointing than By-Tor. I still await the song with hungry mind and open eyes.

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I wouldn't mind seeing anywhere from 40-45 minutes. I'm hoping for a decent length instrumental, hopefully a 15 minute epic that I heard they had enough material so far of, and a couple shorter songs around what Caravan is. I would rather have the album shorter, tight with high-quality songs, then longer with fillers. I think most people would.
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