Captain Avatar Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I'm not a bass player, so perhaps some of you who are can help answer this. On Beyond the Lighted Stage, (I believe it's) Tim Commerford says (in regards to the synth era), "I didn't like it...and I still really don't like it that much. Geddy would spend a lot of time on the keyboard, and as a bass player, I love the bass, and so when my favorite bass player is playing the keyboards...I'm not that psyched about it." From what I've read, Geddy's bass playing reached a new technical level on the synth albums. Bass players - even many on this forum - rave constantly about his chops on songs such as Big Money, Marathon, Prime Mover, and, especially, Turn the Page, which I have heard many say might be his all-time most difficult song. To my ears, his bass playing is as busy as ever on albums such as Power Windows and Hold Your Fire. If his bass playing is so great on those albums (perhaps even his best), then why wouldn't a fellow bass player, such as Commerford, love that era? Perhaps, as he says, it all comes down to time devoted to the instrument itself, but then shouldn't he at least acknowledge that the bass playing that IS on said albums is incredible? It's not as though he put the bass away altogether or suddenly started playing simple chords on it...quite the contrary is true. In other words, why not acknowledge that all Geddy really did during that era is ADD another instrument to an increasingly virtuosic bass repertoire? Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sawyer Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanadude69 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Well first of all, all movies especially Documentaries are heavily edited. So he may have commented on HYF and they left it out. we have no way of knowing. Also maybe Tim was just referring to the synth era as a whole. It is strange though because on some songs in the "synth era" Geddy really tears it up on bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shreddy Lee Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Well it is still true that he was diverting his attention, at least in part, to the keyboards. For example, take Subdivisions. What bass there is is great, but for large chunks of time he's not playing it at all, he's playing synth instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Because people have their head up their arse when it comes to the synth era. Geddy's bass playing was arguably at it's peak during that time, but people are so busy moping over the fact that there's an additional instrument that they never bother to notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbomb106 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I'm also of the opinion that he did a lot of his best work in that era. At the same time, I acknowledge that the synths were the more dominant sound, and Geddy's bass isn't always at the forefront. As a casual listener, I would probably see the synths as what I remember the albums for. Generally speaking, I'd wager most casual fans wouldn't really delve into the album to see what's there and appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fledgehog Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Scars @ Jun 22 2011, 10:34 PM) Because people have their head up their arse when it comes to the synth era. Geddy's bass playing was arguably at it's peak during that time, but people are so busy moping over the fact that there's an additional instrument that they never bother to notice. yeah, that. Neil and Alex are also in top form on Power Windows and Hold Your Fire, but that never gets mentioned either. Musically, Power Windows is one of the most brilliant and intricate (not to mention beautiful) things the band has ever done. Edited June 23, 2011 by fledgehog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rendclaw Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 As was also said in the doc, Alex was constantly fighting for sonic space that was being eaten up by the keyboards. In some songs it sounded like the roles were reversed in that the synths were the guitar, and Alex's guitar is in the background. I agree that Geddy's and Neil playing were taken up a notch in Power Windows and perhaps reached a zenith on Hold Your Fire, but the fact that the music changed so radically and gotten so keyboard heavy so quickly turned me off too, initially. Only after I was able to not be so in love with the guitar as an instrument and learn to appreciate the band as the sum or its parts, rather than as separate components could I say, "holy crap! That's a hell of a bassline", or "Wow! That's a killer fill Neil did! How *does* he do that?" I was talking to Pauliewanna on YouTube one time after he put up a video of Middletown Dreams, and he said that as a drummer, Neil's drumming was at its peak on Power Windows, that nothing he did since that album was at that level from a technical point of view, and I agree. I just think that the progression of the band where more and more synths were added in, to the point where Alex was almost being drowned out in the mix here and there, just turned people off. Signals were the perfect mix of the original power trio along with keyboards as the fourth instrument. Sure they took the lead on a few songs, but only for a short time and Alex was still present in the mix. Grace Under Pressure started the trend and it didn't get corrected until Presto, when the keyboards were relegated to supporting status where (IMO) they should have been all along. But in the end, its their band, and they can do whatever the hell they want with it, since Ged and Al have been doing this since what, 69 or 70, and Neil since 74 or 75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invisible To Telescopic Eye Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I think what he's saying is he didn't like the keyboard era because he didn't like keyboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbirdsong Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 QUOTE (Invisible To Telescopic Eye @ Jun 23 2011, 05:41 AM) I think what he's saying is he didn't like the keyboard era because he didn't like keyboards. That was my impression as well. I think a lot of fans of the early, heavy guitar Rush were turned off by all the keyboards. I never stopped listening in the 80s, but was glad when the keys took more of a back seat in the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Avatar Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 QUOTE (fledgehog @ Jun 23 2011, 12:33 AM) QUOTE (Scars @ Jun 22 2011, 10:34 PM) Because people have their head up their arse when it comes to the synth era. Geddy's bass playing was arguably at it's peak during that time, but people are so busy moping over the fact that there's an additional instrument that they never bother to notice. yeah, that. Neil and Alex are also in top form on Power Windows and Hold Your Fire, but that never gets mentioned either. Musically, Power Windows is one of the most brilliant and intricate (not to mention beautiful) things the band has ever done. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, exactly! Mike Portnoy also dismisses the synth era just before that Commerford comment. I really don't like the way that Beyond the Lighted Stage treats that era. The casual viewer who's never listened to Rush would get the impression that when the synths entered, Rush suddenly became a three chord, lame garage band who sounded like Depeche Mode, when that's not true at all. At the very least, they could've had some quotes from Geddy himself, talking about how, even during that time, they continued to push themselves in the musicianship department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Cocky Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 QUOTE (drbirdsong @ Jun 23 2011, 06:49 AM) QUOTE (Invisible To Telescopic Eye @ Jun 23 2011, 05:41 AM) I think what he's saying is he didn't like the keyboard era because he didn't like keyboards. That was my impression as well. I think a lot of fans of the early, heavy guitar Rush were turned off by all the keyboards. I never stopped listening in the 80s, but was glad when the keys took more of a back seat in the 90s. (especially the bolded part) I don't dislike keyboards. But I came into Rush expecting to hear Geddy sing and also shred the bass. Yes, the bass playing was excellent during this time (even though I personally don't like the sound of that bass), and Neil was phenominal during this period. But most of HYF, plus songs like Emotion Detector, and even Chemistry are illustrations of how too much synth is not a good thing. It's overkill, in fact. I like pancakes. I like to eat them with syrup. But you serve them to me with a whole bottle of syrup on them, and I'm probably sampling them and looking for something else to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacklifeson Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I became a Rush fan pretty much at the same time I started playing bass, which was 1986. HYF was out and the basslines from that and PoW blew me away (partly because of the Wal bass tone too, which is still my favorite of all time) So I always liked the "keyboard era", and even on PoW, the keys are present but Geddy still plays bass most of the time. When he did play keys, it was for shorter segments of songs to change it up which I always appreciated. I think people like Timmy C (and lots of my friends at the time) just saw the change in the musical direction as "getting wimpy" and THAT turned them off, not so much the actual playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffon Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I think it comes from a fallacy wherein people who didn't look to closely at it just thought "Oh, there's too many synths" and didn't really give it any more thought than that. When you couple that with the fact that most musicians don't really consider synths to be "a real instrument" (I think even Lifeson says as much in BTLS?) typically people write it off just based on that. I don't--I like a lot of the snyth-era stuff and find they really went down some imaginative roads during that time. Then again, Rush has gone down some interesting roads no matter what period of time we're talking about. It's why I like them so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewblank Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Always keep in mind that an opinion is just an opinion. Just because one bass player say's he doesn't like it, it doesn't mean all bass players think the same. I play bass and I agree with many of the other posters in that Power Windows through Presto contain some of Geddy's most killer bass riffs. Marathon, Turn the Page, Scars, The Pass - all monster bass riffs that totally drive each of those compositions. I think that there may have been be a slight and unintentional editorial bias against the "synth era" on the part of the documentary film makers. These are the guys that did "Metal - A Headbangers Journey" and "Global Metal" so one can guess that their tastes lean towards the heavy.... Just my own opinion. cheers, ew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenken Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Captain Avatar @ Jun 22 2011, 07:51 PM) I'm not a bass player, so perhaps some of you who are can help answer this. On Beyond the Lighted Stage, (I believe it's) Tim Commerford says (in regards to the synth era), "I didn't like it...and I still really don't like it that much. Geddy would spend a lot of time on the keyboard, and as a bass player, I love the bass, and so when my favorite bass player is playing the keyboards...I'm not that psyched about it." From what I've read, Geddy's bass playing reached a new technical level on the synth albums. Bass players - even many on this forum - rave constantly about his chops on songs such as Big Money, Marathon, Prime Mover, and, especially, Turn the Page, which I have heard many say might be his all-time most difficult song. To my ears, his bass playing is as busy as ever on albums such as Power Windows and Hold Your Fire. If his bass playing is so great on those albums (perhaps even his best), then why wouldn't a fellow bass player, such as Commerford, love that era? Perhaps, as he says, it all comes down to time devoted to the instrument itself, but then shouldn't he at least acknowledge that the bass playing that IS on said albums is incredible? It's not as though he put the bass away altogether or suddenly started playing simple chords on it...quite the contrary is true. In other words, why not acknowledge that all Geddy really did during that era is ADD another instrument to an increasingly virtuosic bass repertoire? Any thoughts? I know what he's talking about. Technically he did become a better player, especially on PoW and HYF, but he lost a lot of his aggressive style that he was known for. A lot of young bassists fell in love with Geddy's old style (not that he was the only one playing like that), Commerford being one. You can hear it in how he plays. Has a very hard edge to it. In the 80s though Geddy started playing more like a jazz bassists. Lighter attack, no aggression at all, distortion in the strings was lost. He got back to that I guess around Counterparts. I prefer the harder playing. That lught jazz attack just doesnt turn me on. I was really starting to get serious about playing bass when I was around 9 when PoW came out so I grew to like that style, but Ill always prefer his nasty aggressive attack. That gets my blood flowing, not that wimpy jazz plucking. Edited June 23, 2011 by trenken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fledgehog Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 QUOTE (Griffon @ Jun 23 2011, 11:00 AM) When you couple that with the fact that most musicians don't really consider synths to be "a real instrument" (I think even Lifeson says as much in BTLS?) typically people write it off just based on that. a laughably incorrect opinion. the old analog synths produced tones, sounds and frequencies that no other musical instrument could, and newer digital synths can reproduce just about everything else (in addition to the old analog synth sounds). playing synth requires every bit as much musical skill as playing any other keyed instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fledgehog Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fledgehog Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 "I didn't like it...and I still really don't like it that much." those are pretty much my sentiments as well. rush went from being a trio to being a little too much Geddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micgtr71 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 For me it was the sound. The playing was stellar but the bass sound was lifeless. Maybe also one wonders what his playing would be like if he didn't have the synths for part of the song. Big Money with bass all the way through it and not the Wal or the Steinberger....hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Avatar Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go2wrk@95974 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I remember when Moving Pictures came out, I was lovin' every second of it...Every song was top-notch(like all their previous records) with the perfect amount of Bass,Guitar, drums, and synths. ..Then Signals was released, and I listened to the 1st song, and couldn't believe my ears... It was like WTF did they do to their sound??? WAY TOO much synths.... But ya know what? As time went by, the record really did grow on me , and I learned to live with the "new sound" ..and actually like it. RUSH was just movin' on, from one era to another, musicly speaking. That's why they're such an excellent band... They adapt to the times they are experiencing. I hope they never stop, and always change/adjust their sound, accordingly, when the need arises. LONG LIVE RUSH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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