ak2112 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I already did this once for Moving Pictures and I'll soon do this again for Power Windows, but the following is my review of several different masterings of the album Signals. The versions reviewed are as follows: 1. Original US Atomic (810 002-2) 2. Japanese 25.8P 1st pressing (25.8P-5169) 3. The MFSL (Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs) master (UDCD 614) 4. The 1997 remaster (314 534 633-2) I didnt listen to the whole album for this review, but rather 3 songs, Subdivisions, The Weapon, and Losing It (my all time favorite Rush song). I played each song all the way through without interruption, then had my wife switch out the CD's and play the sojng on the next master. I did not know which version I was listening to but merely kept track of them as disc #1, #2, etc and had my wife keep track of the true identity of each. I also had her switch up the order of which disc she played with each song so that things stayed as random and blind as possible. For each song and each CD, I made notes on things like overall sound stage, detail, loudness, perceived warmth and overall tonal quality. The results are in and here is how thet ranked out! One note should be made. I knew during The Weapon when I was listening to the MFSL as it has the missing vocal towards the end. However, other than that, I really didnt know which verison I was hearing at the time. Anyway, here is my final ranking: 1. Japanese 25.8P 2. MFSL 3. Original US Atomic 4. 97 remaster First off, I wish I could rank the 97 remaster something like #158 or something because it truly was not in the same league as the other 3 verions. It was a loud, brickwalled mess and I could tell when it was being played EVERY SINGLE TIME because it was so friggin terribly loud...about 8dB louder than any other disc in the group. Just terrible. it sounded tinny and harsh and it didnt matter what song was playing. Although you could make a little more detail because of the loudness, that didnt make up for the overall sonic mess...just terrible! The other three were much MUCH harder to choose a ranking for. However, the biggest surprise for me was that the MFSL got beat. It was my go-to version for this album for a while. I only recently won the 25.8P version off of ebay so it was the new kid in the house. However, the warmth and overall sound quality of this version makes it my new fave. It is the closest I have heard this album get to vinyl and was a true wonder to behold. It is the loudest of the three (though nowhere near as loud as the 97 remaster) but that didnt hurt the overall presentation, rather it seemed only to enhance it. Now, I still prefer thee MFSL for "The Weapon" just because I love that verson without the vocal line and it is the original version, not the one that was eventually released in 1982. The MFSL is a close 2nd to the 25.8P and the US Atomic is very nice as well. The only downside for the Atomic is that is actually TOO quiet in my opinion and you really have to crank it up to hear any detail. Still, it does sound nice and it will remain in my collection, as will the horrid 97 remaster, if, for no other reason than to help show just how bad a BAD remaster can be! Well, there you go folks. I would say, if you ever get the chance to pick up the Japanese 25.8P do not hesitate as it is the definitive verions of this album. However, the MFSL is no slouch either, its just that it tends to be a tad pricey these days! Anyway, that was a quick and dirty review. If you want any more specific details, just ask! ENJOY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeamusWiles Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I don't think the 97 remaster is loud at all... in fact the 97 Rush remasters are probably some of the quietest CDs I own. Most every rock CD produced after 2000 is way louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I don't own the Japanese version, but I have the other three. Prior to my owning the remaster, I did a couple of A/B side by side comparisons of the original CD and the MFSL version. Outside of the missing verse from The Weapon, I detected NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER in sonic quality, and this with pretty decent audiophile equipment. The remaster was a huge improvement for me over both. Just huge. All of the sudden the clarity I'd always wanted in Signals dating back to my multiple cassette tapes of the album was there. That's my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pags Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Send me a copy of the Japanese version. I'd love to hear it. Also, is the MFSL version of The Weapon floating around? I've never heard the missing vocal thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak2112 Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 For some people, louder = better. Not me. I'll stick with the 25.8P and MFSL when I want the best sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micgtr71 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 What kind of system were you listening to these on? With cds, it is really difficult for me to tell the difference between mastering other than loudness. I have an older system built for lps. I would also like to see how the versions stack up against the original lp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 QUOTE (ak2112 @ Apr 30 2011, 10:30 PM) For some people, louder = better. Not me. I'll stick with the 25.8P and MFSL when I want the best sound. It wasn't just louder, I notice a lot more fullness and clarity in the production on the remaster, which always seemed slightly lacking to me in the original and MFSL versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeamusWiles Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2011, 08:07 AM) QUOTE (ak2112 @ Apr 30 2011, 10:30 PM) For some people, louder = better. Not me. I'll stick with the 25.8P and MFSL when I want the best sound. It wasn't just louder, I notice a lot more fullness and clarity in the production on the remaster, which always seemed slightly lacking to me in the original and MFSL versions. yes... on the remaster I can actually hear Alex's guitar in most songs. It's so synth-saturated that none of the other instruments came through very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbirdsong Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I'm a sucker for the MFSL versions, but the 97 remaster is one of the best from that group. On vinyl it always sounded so muted and almost dull. The day I got the 97 remaster and played it I just sat there through the whole thing thinking it was like someone put a cheese cloth in front of the Mona Lisa and then removed it. Overall I tend to agree that the 97 remasters are not terribly awesome, but in this case it sounds pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordgt99 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2011, 08:07 AM) QUOTE (ak2112 @ Apr 30 2011, 10:30 PM) For some people, louder = better. Not me. I'll stick with the 25.8P and MFSL when I want the best sound. It wasn't just louder, I notice a lot more fullness and clarity in the production on the remaster, which always seemed slightly lacking to me in the original and MFSL versions. I agree with this. I noticed the same thing when comparing other versions of Moving Pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moving_signals Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I only have the US Atomic and the MFSL, and I think it's pretty hard to tell the difference between them. But I do think the MFSL sounds better on The Analog Kid, and I prefer the MFSL version of The Weapon with the missing lyrics. I have the LP too, and it does sound less clear to me. I thought it was pretty well known that Signals wasn't mixed very well. And I think it's a bit uneven from song to song. Listen to Chemistry, and let it play into Digital Man, and Digital Man sounds much clearer, and louder too. This is still one of my favorite collection of Rush songs regardless. A very strong effort, and it's a shame Terry's heart wasn't behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytserush Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Mobile Fidelity by a landslide....but I don't have the Japanese pressing. I would imagine I'd have to think about that a little more if I had it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moving_signals Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (ytserush @ May 13 2011, 10:01 PM) Mobile Fidelity by a landslide....but I don't have the Japanese pressing. I would imagine I'd have to think about that a little more if I had it. I'd love to get my hands on a copy of the Japanese pressing, but I can't justify $100+ for it when I've got 4 copies including the LP. I just bought the '97 remaster last weekend because of this thread. I compared the remaster, U.S. Atomic and MFSL, and I agree the MFSL is the best of the 3, but as I said in my previous post the Atomic does OK to my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebernreuter Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (ak2112 @ May 1 2011, 12:30 AM) For some people, louder = better. Not me. I'll stick with the 25.8P and MFSL when I want the best sound. For some people, louder = greater signal-to-noise ratio. I would love to do a study of my own by doing a double-blind listening test of my own (including adjusting all of the sound samples to the same volume), but I'm going to use the money I'll save by not buying nine copies of the same album to buy food and gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak2112 Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 Louder = less dynamic range, and that's a fact. However, I enjoy your wit as always! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostworks Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 interesting research, AK! I did an a/b/c/d test with 'Signals' CD's a few years ago myself when the SHM-CD hype was in full effect here's a link to the full review: Signals - on compact disc, '89, '94, '97 and '09 editions reviewed we both used three of the four same discs for our years-apart independent tests, and the final results are revealing: AK2112 1. Japanese 25.8P 2. MFSL 3. Original US Atomic 4. 97 remaster GHOSTWORKS 1. MFSL 2. '89 W. German (i.e. Original US Atomic) 3. SHM-CD 4. '97 Remaster I'm compelled to start a campaign to buy up those '97 'Signals' remasters on principle and encourage people to snap them in half and ditch them in recycle bins across the world on the 30th anniversary (September 9, 2012) WHO'S WITH ME? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak2112 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (ghostworks @ May 14 2011, 12:22 PM) interesting research, AK! I did an a/b/c/d test with 'Signals' CD's a few years ago myself when the SHM-CD hype was in full effect here's a link to the full review: Signals - on compact disc, '89, '94, '97 and '09 editions reviewed we both used three of the four same discs for our years-apart independent tests, and the final results are revealing: AK2112 1. Japanese 25.8P 2. MFSL 3. Original US Atomic 4. 97 remaster GHOSTWORKS 1. MFSL 2. '89 W. German (i.e. Original US Atomic) 3. SHM-CD 4. '97 Remaster I'm compelled to start a campaign to buy up those '97 'Signals' remasters on principle and encourage people to snap them in half and ditch them in recycle bins across the world on the 30th anniversary (September 9, 2012) WHO'S WITH ME? Amen to that brother! You took the words right out of my mouth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shredder2 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Damn, I need the Japanese versions of these albums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harperspace Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I don't have the jap version but I do have the MFSL edition & the '97 remaster. MFSL beats the '97 remaster hands down, and until I hear the Jap it will remain my go to version. Oh, and with regard to the 'Missing' vocal line on The Weapon (MFSL), it's worth mentioning that the master delivered to MFSL was provided by the band/Anthem. There are other differences too (I'm pretty sure one or two tracks are slightly longer but I'll check). I'm tempted to think that the MFSL edition was wilfully different. Otherwise it would have been withdrawn from sale, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbirdsong Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 On just about any MFSL version you get there are usually some time differences. It is essentially a new version from the (hopefully) original master tapes. I still think the 97 remaster is the best of the 1997 group, but it may be that it is simply the top turd on the pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Don't Tell Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (ghostworks @ May 14 2011, 01:22 PM)I'm compelled to start a campaign to buy up those '97 'Signals' remasters on principle and encourage people to snap them in half and ditch them in recycle bins across the world on the 30th anniversary (September 9, 2012) WHO'S WITH ME? Screw that; I want my f***ing money back! I must have spent a total of about $225 CAD on those '97 remasters. Wish I hadn't -- the original CDs are so much better. They're pretty much flat transfers from the master tapes, and I've always thought that Broon and Peter Collins (and that bloke who did GUP) had things right the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Show Don't Tell Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (Pags @ Apr 30 2011, 11:00 PM) Also, is the MFSL version of The Weapon floating around? I've never heard the missing vocal thing. http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u195/Number-4/Icons/winamp.gif weapon-missing-verse.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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