Is college a rip-off?

[Steel Rat]

[tel]

i put my 23 year old daughter through 3 years college and 3 years university studying creative writing,she earned her degree and then tried to find a job.

im sure you can fill in the rest!.....

 

FORGET IT!...SAVE YOURMONEY !......GO OUT TODAY AND APPLY FOR AN APPRENTICESHIP!

 

 

[Steel Rat]

And while I'm at it... Grade school starts to look even worse.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw&feature=related

[theredtamasrule]

QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Oct 5 2010, 03:52 AM)

Grade school...

Maybe a little more schoolin' wouldn't hurt...

 

[theredtamasrule]

Ever since I graduated college I've been of the opinion that the higher education racket is simply that: a racket.

 

I wish I had just started working after high school instead of wasting time & money in college. If you're sure you want to be a lawyer or doctor or engineer then yes, college is for you. If you want to pursue higher level degrees in the sciences and then teach/research then yes, college is for you.

 

Otherwise I almost think a 2 year associates degree is all most people will need. Most of the Bachelor's programs nowadays have so many ridiculous required classes that have little if nothing to do with your major field of study. Complete waste of time and cash.

 

Technical schools where you actually learn a trade would be much more beneficial to most folks I think.

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Oct 5 2010, 05:21 AM)

Most of the Bachelor's programs nowadays have so many ridiculous required classes that have little if nothing to do with your major field of study. Complete waste of time and cash.

A four-year university degree is supposed to give a student a high level, well-rounded education = the arts, sciences, and humanities. From the University's point of view, the boring World History class that you have to take is just as important as all your other classes.

 

The mistake that many students make is going to a university and expecting to just take courses related to a specific career. Ya can't go to a University and expect it to be a tech school. It's not going to happen.

 

Yes, the job market is horrible, especially for those who want to pursue careers in music and the arts and humanities. Only the very highest performers will have a chance at success. Young people need to accept this fact before they go to college. If you run off to college with naive dreams of playing your violin or writing novels for a living, then you had better wake up and have a back-up plan!

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (Steel Rat @ Oct 5 2010, 03:16 AM)

What "lucrative" jobs will I secure with 4 years of music college??

Whatever jobs you choose to go get. First of all, you're not gonna have that dream job drop in your lap right away. You'll have to work your way up to it.

 

It is up to you to sell yourself and get involved in the music biz, if that it what you truly want to do. The University can't find your dream job for you, nor is it obliged to do so.

 

Yeah, you'll probably have to get a $10/hour McJob in the meantime....that's life in the great USA right now.

[danielmclark]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Oct 5 2010, 07:01 AM)

QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Oct 5 2010, 05:21 AM) Most of the Bachelor's programs nowadays have so many ridiculous required classes that have little if nothing to do with your major field of study. Complete waste of time and cash. A four-year university degree is supposed to give a student a high level, well-rounded education = the arts, sciences, and humanities. From the University's point of view, the boring World History class that you have to take is just as important as all your other classes.   The mistake that many students make is going to a university and expecting to just take courses related to a specific career. Ya can't go to a University and expect it to be a tech school. It's not going to happen.   Yes, the job market is horrible, especially for those who want to pursue careers in music and the arts and humanities. Only the very highest performers will have a chance at success. Young people need to accept this fact before they go to college. If you run off to college with naive dreams of playing your violin or writing novels for a living, then you had better wake up and have a back-up plan! THIS.

[danielmclark]

If you are going to a four year college for music, that's your first problem. You can train in an instrument by calling up any number of teachers you can find in the yellow pages. You don't go to a university to learn one thing, you go to get an education in a number of areas. If you don't want to accept that, then let your fingers do the walking and get out.

 

Just because the system doesn't work for you doesn't mean it's a scam. It works for millions of other people.

[circumstantial tree]

My friend John, who studied under Branford Marsalis at North Carolina Central University, said that when you come out of college, be prepared to teach music in addition to perform. He went on to say that nowadays it's almost impossible to strictly be a performer. You have to be able to do many kinds of things in music to order to make a living.

 

Suzanne Vega had visited a high school and asked how many students in the class planned to go into music as a profession. Quite a few students raised their hands and her response was "that may be a problem because most of you are not going to succeed" and explained the realities of the music biz. Of course, she was referring to the fact that people succeed based on having a hit record - meaning, doing things the record company way, not your way.

Edited October 5, 2010 by circumstantial tree

[Mara]

I'll echo what others have said: a music degree will likely mean you find yourself teaching music to support yourself, at least for a while. There's nothing wrong with that unless you really don't think you're suited to teach.

 

I wonder how many people in the music business have college degrees, and how many of THOSE have degrees in music? Be an interesting statistic.

 

 

[Rushsax]

Yes, I attended North Carolina Central University and I am currently studying music at Boston College. I was told by Branford Marsalis and my professors that the days of playing an instrument good and making a living on it are over. You need to be able to teach, compose, ect, be a jack of all trades in the field. That is why the education is important. You will not make a living as a musician if you only play an instrument and your education comes from the teacher at Tony's music shop.

 

 

My question is, why are u frustrated? it took you 3 years into it to figure out that you are not going to get a $700,000 a year recording contract? You are not going to be"discovered" and tour allover the country 1 month out of college?

 

We go to school to study music because we love it, it is in our soul. Upon graduation, you can expect to be teaching at your local high school or middle school and playing some gigs at the local clubs, bars, church halls, and VFW's. You will probably be playing July 4th picnics and instead of saying "Hello Boston!!!!!!" at a gig you will be saying " Hello to the bride and groom". Even those days are fading fast thanks to DJ's. That is the hard truth about music majors. The degree will not give you stardom, it will give you an education. You need to put in the work and time in and love every minute of it. You may or may not be successful. The point is you did this because you love music and want it to be a part of your life no matter what the cost.

 

 

 

[theredtamasrule]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Oct 5 2010, 08:01 AM)

QUOTE (theredtamasrule @ Oct 5 2010, 05:21 AM) Most of the Bachelor's programs nowadays have so many ridiculous required classes that have little if nothing to do with your major field of study. Complete waste of time and cash. A four-year university degree is supposed to give a student a high level, well-rounded education = the arts, sciences, and humanities. From the University's point of view, the boring World History class that you have to take is just as important as all your other classes.   The mistake that many students make is going to a university and expecting to just take courses related to a specific career. Ya can't go to a University and expect it to be a tech school. It's not going to happen.   Yes, the job market is horrible, especially for those who want to pursue careers in music and the arts and humanities. Only the very highest performers will have a chance at success. Young people need to accept this fact before they go to college. If you run off to college with naive dreams of playing your violin or writing novels for a living, then you had better wake up and have a back-up plan! I understand all that. World history, literature, mathematics, etc. are the basis for a well rounded education. But if it's been a while since college (I graduated in '93) you may not be aware of the array of, frankly, useless classes most universities require in order to graduate.   Having been through it I'm more & more convinced that most of these pre-requisites are there simply to give teachers who work in esoteric fields of study something to do so they can acquire tenure.

[ALifeson85]

I almost fell into the same trap, myself. Only, it was for "Acting". I started taking Performing Arts classes, among a few other classes (that had NOTHING to do with Acting), then realized...in order for me to eventually manage to make a career in Acting, it's pretty much gonna rely heavily on who I know. And lucky for me, I know people whom I've managed to get involved in a few local film projects with.

 

Early next year, there is a movie that I starred in called "The Devil's Playthings", that will be screened at several film festivals. Not saying that the film will rocket me into stardom, but it will be a MAJOR step in getting myself out there.

 

Music, for the most part, is the same way. You gotta get yourself out there to the public.

 

Whatever you decide to do...best of luck!

[Steel Rat]

The main theme I hear is "Put yourself out there," but there is no class for that. I've never heard any teacher utter two words about "how." Selling myself is something that I cannot do as comfortably as most people, I'm far too reserved. But a career in music once seemed so obvious. I have perfect pitch, and the mechanics of music came naturally to me immediately. I'm doing fantastic in music theory and ear training, but that is throttled by my disinterest in unnecessary music history classes. My high school teacher was really interested in my composition ability, and I composed pieces for my high school concert band. My college professors do not care. I have proclaimed want to compose music for advertisements, movies, video games, or whatever, and no one ever told me that this was a bad idea.

 

When 40% of college attendees do not benefit from their $100,000 debt, I think it fits squarely into the definition of "Scam" in at least some sense of the word. Perhaps it's possibly unintended, but there sure is a lot of bullcrap.

 

I'm taking a computer science course, right? I quickly discovered that I already know how to do all of the assignments. The way I learned them was simply by watching youtube videos. In the few hours I spent watching videos, I learned everything I needed to know for the computer science course. If I misunderstood anything, I could rewind the video a little and get what I needed. Youtube is brilliant, free, and teaches you perhaps everything that college can.

 

I did the same thing for learning string bass and math.

[Blenderhead]

It all depends on what you are studying and what you want to do career-wise. I wish I would've waited a couple of years before starting at university, because, looking back, I really had no idea what the f**k I wanted to do.

 

As a student of music, and as others have said, you probably won't get as much out of your degree as someone in the sciences. But that doesn't mean it's worthless.

 

 

[Ya_Big_Tree]

QUOTE (Blenderhead @ Oct 5 2010, 01:20 PM)

It all depends on what you are studying and what you want to do career-wise. I wish I would've waited a couple of years before starting at university, because, looking back, I really had no idea what the f**k I wanted to do. As a student of music, and as others have said, you probably won't get as much out of your degree as someone in the sciences. But that doesn't mean it's worthless.

That's basically what I was about to say.

 

These days it's like we're getting in debt for thousands of dollars just to get a lil piece of paper that means potential employers MIGHT look at your resume. Most of the learning about your profession you do in practice anyways and all school is good for is learning the fundamentals of what is it that you're basically doing every day. But should we have to spend 4-5 years in school and rack up $30K + in debt just to get a stupid lil piece of paper? Nuh Uh.

 

That being said in my profession... it's a medical field and I'm currently in a specialist program and yes it's a lot of money but I made some VERY careful decisions about why I chose this school over others. Not only is it the top school in the country for my field but it consistantly produces over qualified students who out of the graduating class 97% on average each year pass their license exam first time around. They also start clinic and outreach in term 2 and carry it all the way to the end so you are getting on the job training as well as making contacts for future employment once you're done school. Schools that offer those type of oppourtunities to their students I think aren't a scam because they are really teaching the information tot he student as well as being a viable resource.

 

 

[circumstantial tree]

Yeah, in many professions you have to have that degree. In architecture you have to get the professional 5 year Bachelor of Architecture or Master of Architecture in order to get licensed to design. There are two year architectural technology programs out there, but career wise it limits how far you can advance in your career.

 

In the school I attend, there is a high turnover of students who start the architecture program but don't ever finish because of the demands. Only 20 percent graduate and the school states that emphatically at orientation.

[fledgehog]

the american education system is bullshit from top to bottom. im happy to be going to school for music right now, simply because music is my greatest passion and the only thing i thought it would be worth my while to pursue in college.

 

now, one aspect of college that is undeniably a ripoff is living on a college campus. everything costs money, and everything is overpriced. never has my wallet looked more in shape...

[launchpad67a]

What is your goal with a music degree? The only solid job you can get from a "college music degree" is the possibility to play with a major symphony orchestra, or teach music. Is that your goal? I made the same mistake for 3 years as well until I realized this.

As far as I'm concerned a music degree can be earned in the real world by playing in bands and playing live, a lot!

 

College is only a rip off if you go to a lower grade school. A Degree from a major university if a huge bonus when looking for a great job. Other than that, you can get educated online, for free. Experience is the key, not necessarily the degree.

[Alex]

It all depends on what you want to do with your life, really. Sometimes its better to stay away from secondary education.

[priest_of_syrinx]

Everyone is talking about a bachelor's degree in music, but how about a Ph.D? What do you have to do between your undergraduate and graduate studies, and how unlikely is it to attain a Ph.D?

 

I'm asking because I really don't think I want to teach music below a college level (because I have little patience for other people ), I'll probably never have the chops to play for a symphony (though I would absolutely love to), and I have a very good chance at getting my undergraduate studies paid for in full due to my ACT score and GPA.

[Tarkus406]

I'm currently in community college and I've also always thought college was not absolutely necessary. My parents feel the opposite. They think I'll be a bum on the streets if I don't get a degree. But hey...right now I have a pretty enjoyable job. I get paid $14 per hour to use AutoCAD, run a CNC router, and fabricate solid surface countertops. Many different jobs all in one. I COULD do this for the rest of my life and I wouldn't have a problem with it. I would surely like more than $14/hour since it's still not enough to live on my own or support a family...but depending where you go wages change. Would I like to say "f**k YOU" to college for now and focus on making more money? Yes. Hell f***ing yes. School is definately not for me but I've been busting my ass trying to get through it anyway. And I hate it. More than anything. Some things about it I dont mind. Chemistry is interesting to me. Math and science are great things to know. But put me in a history class and I want to shoot myself in the face.

 

So Rat...do what you want to do. Yes you'll probably end up with the same job with or without your education, but only because you have to start at the bottom. I started my job making $10/hr. I've gotten a few raises since then. I'll continue to get them whether I have a degree or not because my boss knows me very well now, and he knows I can learn anything and do my job the way it should be done. I think that is much more important than having that almighty piece of paper that says you can do your job.

 

Get your experience and use that experience to better your knowledge. Sometimes the best way to learn anything is just to f***ing do it already.

 

:middle finger to colleges:

[danielmclark]

There's a difference between a job and a career. A job is something you have temporarily, something you do just for the money, to pay the bills. A career is something you love. It's working in an industry that you enjoy. And here's a secret: careers always pay better than jobs.

 

You don't go to college so you can come out and get a job. Anyone can get a job. You go to come out and have a career.

[Tarkus406]

QUOTE (danielmclark @ Oct 5 2010, 07:07 PM)

There's a difference between a job and a career. A job is something you have temporarily, something you do just for the money, to pay the bills. A career is something you love. It's working in an industry that you enjoy. And here's a secret: careers always pay better than jobs. You don't go to college so you can come out and get a job. Anyone can get a job. You go to come out and have a career.

A career doesn't have to be anything prestigeous. If you get a job and are passionate about it, you can make it your career. Look at those nerdy teenagers that take jobs at supermarkets and a few years later they're manager!