My ACC review!!

[Big T]

Nothing against LZ, they certainly have their place in rock history though personally I never got into them. Let's face it though, those who made it big in FM rock were marketed and became big due to it. Their songs were pushed and ample air time was given. If the program directors had liked Rush at the beginning like they did LZ, they would have gotten their due but we know how Rush was never really given a handshake by those in the industry. Plus, now due to the death of FM rock, "album" sales aren't going to add up for them. I think there is one station in this area that plays new rock music. Most are at the classic rock stage----very sad. Worse yet, you don't hear much rock coming out of high school aged kids' cars anymore. It's mainly rap or whatever similar style is out. That's sad but I guess I digress there a bit.

[moedrabowsky]

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Jul 18 2010, 09:13 PM)

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 18 2010, 10:10 PM) I don't think there are two, much less a dozen, guitarists who are better writers than Jimmy Page. His catalog is filled with mountains of mighty riffs and instantly recognizable licks. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but you basically have to discount everything that Geddy and Alex (and we all know how important their opinions are around these parts) have said about Led Zeppelin to slag them. You don't have to tear down LZ to pump up Rush. Let's be fair, Mr. Page "borrowed" many of those riffs! And Mr. Jones came up with plenty himself.   And yes, you don't have to tear down the mighty Zep! They are Rock Gods!!! Just accept it!   I really do like Led Zeppelin, in case anyone is wondering. True that.

[Snyder80]

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 18 2010, 09:10 PM)

I don't think there are two, much less a dozen, guitarists who are better writers than Jimmy Page. His catalog is filled with mountains of mighty riffs and instantly recognizable licks. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but you basically have to discount everything that Geddy and Alex (and we all know how important their opinions are around these parts) have said about Led Zeppelin to slag them. You don't have to tear down LZ to pump up Rush.

I'm not tearing them down. I stated that I do indeed recognize their place in history. But to not recognize that they are a tad overrated is irresponsible.

 

As far as Jimmy Page goes, have your opinion but if your going to tell me that he has the chops of Van Halen, Randy Rhoads, Malmsteen, Kirk Hammett, your just plain wrong. I can dig you up 100's of cover bands that can play everything Zep ever recorded. And I've heard lots of cover bands try to cover Crazy Train or One and get completely lost during the solo because the guy playing just isn't fast enough. And let's not forget the age factor. For example; Randy Rhoads was 22 years old when he wrote Mr. Crowley, Crazy Train, Revelation Mother Earth. How old was Page when he wrote Stairway to Heaven. Like it or not there are guys who are and were just flat out better. The guys isn't the best guitar player of all time just because he played for LZ or used a violin bow.

[tripdad]

Just got back home to Cleveland from my Toronto weekend. Flipping awesome town. My two cents...

Didn't care for the intro videos too much. Thought they did some cool stuff in the past, but this one not so much. Loved the setlist although when they pitched a Time Machine tour I expected maybe a bit farther back in time. Still loved the list though. Geddy's appliances were disappointing. WTF was it anyway?? The guitar feedback in YYZ was horrible. I really expected them to stop and just fix the BS. Then when Limelight started and Alex's guitar starting cutting out. Damn! So did someone get fired? Also did anyone else think they had Geddy's mic maybe a bit too high on volume? Seemed a tad up there.

 

Overall good show. Not R30 mind you but Rush good! Went to the show with two buds, one a Rush virgin and the other has not seen them since MP. We really enjoyed ourselves in your fine city and must say there are many a lovely Canadian ladies!

 

 

 

 

PS. I'm 45 and I stand at concerts too!

[moedrabowsky]

QUOTE (Snyder80 @ Jul 18 2010, 09:35 PM)

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 18 2010, 09:10 PM) I don't think there are two, much less a dozen, guitarists who are better writers than Jimmy Page. His catalog is filled with mountains of mighty riffs and instantly recognizable licks. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but you basically have to discount everything that Geddy and Alex (and we all know how important their opinions are around these parts) have said about Led Zeppelin to slag them. You don't have to tear down LZ to pump up Rush. I'm not tearing them down. I stated that I do indeed recognize their place in history. But to not recognize that they are a tad overrated is irresponsible.   As far as Jimmy Page goes, have your opinion but if your going to tell me that he has the chops of Van Halen, Randy Rhoads, Malmsteen, Kirk Hammett, your just plain wrong. I can dig you up 100's of cover bands that can play everything Zep ever recorded. And I've heard lots of cover bands try to cover Crazy Train or One and get completely lost during the solo because the guy playing just isn't fast enough. And let's not forget the age factor. For example; Randy Rhoads was 22 years old when he wrote Mr. Crowley, Crazy Train, Revelation Mother Earth. How old was Page when he wrote Stairway to Heaven. Like it or not there are guys who are and were just flat out better. The guys isn't the best guitar player of all time just because he played for LZ or used a violin bow. "Chops" and "writing" are two distinct categories. Jimmy Page, along with Jeff Beck, Jimmy Hendrix and Eric Clapton, redefined electric guitar playing. He was never a shredder, but in his prime, his chops were very good and good enough for what LZ was saying with their music.   There are a million guys who could shred Page under the table on his best day who still haven't written anything anyone wants to hear.   And no, it's not "irresponsible" (Holy Hyperbole, Batman!) to not recognize that LZ is overrated -- it's an opinion. I think they are properly rated.

[moedrabowsky]

And I play guitar and Kirk Hammet kind of sucks, while Malsteem is musical diarrhea to me.

 

Playing a million notes a minute doesn't make one a great musician. It makes on a great technician.

 

There's more to being a Great than having a fast left hand.

[Snyder80]

Your right, it is an opinion. And in my opinion they are vastly overrated. I hear the same six songs played on every rock and classic rock station played over and over and over. I've heard 99% of everything they've ever recorded and in my opinion they are pretty ordinary. Sort of like an AC/DC with just a tad more creativity and some teenage cult following.

[moedrabowsky]

They had a diverse catalog.

 

They are about as far away from AC/DC as a band can get.

[Snyder80]

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 18 2010, 09:52 PM)

And I play guitar and Kirk Hammet kind of sucks, while Malsteem is musical diarrhea to me. Playing a million notes a minute doesn't make one a great musician. It makes on a great technician. There's more to being a Great than having a fast left hand.

Kirk Hammet sucks? Are you serious? I can't even respond to that completely erroneous statement.

 

And their catalog was diverse compared to who??? And please don't say Rush or I'm going to tie a concrete block around my neck and jump in the Susquehanna river.

[Snyder80]

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 18 2010, 09:52 PM)

And I play guitar and Kirk Hammet kind of sucks, while Malsteem is musical diarrhea to me. Playing a million notes a minute doesn't make one a great musician. It makes on a great technician. There's more to being a Great than having a fast left hand.

Kirk Hammet sucks? Are you serious? I can't even respond to that completely erroneous statement.

 

And their catalog was diverse compared to who??? And please don't say Rush or I'm going to tie a concrete block around my neck and jump in the Susquehanna river.

[moedrabowsky]

nm Edited July 19, 2010 by moedrabowsky

[Zanadoo]

http://www.sneeko.net/images/macros/Hijack-AirForce1.jpg

[moedrabowsky]

Yeah, sorry about that.

 

Back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

ON TOPIC:

 

I loved this show, but I agree about the videos. I'd like to see those deleted, although it will never happen.

[Hemispheres89]

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 18 2010, 10:13 PM)

QUOTE (Snyder80 @ Jul 18 2010, 10:06 PM) QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 18 2010, 09:52 PM) And I play guitar and Kirk Hammet kind of sucks, while Malsteem is musical diarrhea to me. Playing a million notes a minute doesn't make one a great musician. It makes on a great technician. There's more to being a Great than having a fast left hand. Kirk Hammet sucks? Are you serious? I can't even respond to that completely erroneous statement.   And their catalog was diverse compared to who??? And please don't say Rush or I'm going to tie a concrete block around my neck and jump in the Susquehanna river. Yes, Kirk Hammet sucks. Poor intonation, rampant wah abuse, nonsensical note selection and a poor sense of time.   THIS is the guy who gets overrated because he plays in the biggest heavy band in the world. Hammet is the epitome of everything you've accused Page of.   Diverse compared to AC/DC, whose albums all sound exactly alike with no deviation. If you don't think LZ was diverse, then, no point in bothering. I'm not necessarily extremely skilled or proficient on guitar by any stretch of the imagination, but to say Kirk Hammet sucks is surely baffling. I agree that speed isn't "everything", but isn't it worthy of some credit on a talent scale? Page was good in his own ways, as is Lifeson, but just because Hammett plays fast, it makes him have "poor intonation"? It's only "nonsensical note selection" for the ears of those not fully accustomed to the sounds of heavy metal, and in particular, thrash metal. "Rampant wah abuse?" I agree wholeheartedly with you on this one.   Metallica is one of my favourite bands, and even "I" think they are largely overrated, but overrated for the wrong reasons - that is, post- Master Of Puppets which is some of the worst collections of music not only in metal, (if you can even call it that) but in music history as a whole.   ACDC, don't even get me started. If I go to an ACDC concert, it will be to see "Hell's Bells" and a bunch of other songs that sound exactly like "Hell's Bells".

Edited July 19, 2010 by Hemispheres89

[moedrabowsky]

QUOTE (Hemispheres89 @ Jul 18 2010, 10:39 PM)

I'm not necessarily extremely skilled or proficient on guitar by any stretch of the imagination, but to say Kirk Hammet sucks is surely baffling.

I'm not either -- not by a damned sight -- which is why I deleted the message.

 

I sounded like a pretentious wanker and the fact is that Kirk would mop the floor with me eleventy billion times out of eleventy billion times.

[pedro2112]

QUOTE (trenken @ Jul 18 2010, 05:25 AM)

"Don't listen to anybody who is negative about the setlist/other parts of the show. This concert was AMAZING, and at no point was it dull or uneventful." Yeah, this is easy for you to say, you've only seen them once before, long after they passed their prime. You dont have anything to compare it to, and never got to see rush at the prime in the 80s. For those of us that have seen them many times, we just have more to compare it to so its easier to be critical of things like the setlist which is why youre seeing that so much here. Glad you had a good time though, thats all that matters in the end, im just explaining why some are being critical, theyve probably been to rush shows they liked more.

Rush concerts are significantly better now than back in the 80s. Did you even see them back then?

[amish_ashaman]

Damn. What a thread. I first saw Rush in the 80's and I think they are better now, but I think there best material was written between 2112 and Signals. Geddy's voice is clearly not in its prime. His bass playing is as good if not better than ever. Neil's playing seems to have lost a step to me (but I'm not a musician). His writing is just different. But don't Geddy and Alex write the music? If so, I'd say they have lost many, many steps in the writing department. I prefer the old days when the song structure was far less predictable. But that's me. I think Alex is still right there. As players, they are still very good.

 

Longevity has to count for something, but it isn't everything. Some bands have been around for a long time and have eventually become novelty acts. The Stones, Aerosmith, Yes, the Dead and many others haven't done much of anything relevant in years. They just travel around and make a paycheck playing their same old stuff. For a successful band to stay together 36 years and still write new music is saying something. I took my son to a birthday party today and they had the radio on (some FM station), and I heard Far Cry amidst all of the other newer stuff that they were playing. Not many bands have ever matched that longevity or ever will. Metallica is 28 years old, but has had a couple of lineup changes, not to mention that they sold out a LONG time ago. Pearl Jam is only 21 or 22 years old, but it wouldn't surprise me if they actually stuck around for another 15 years or so. If I had to pick one band to be a front runner to challenge Rush's longevity (and still be musically relevant), I'd have to pick Phish. 27 years old, all original members, and now that they are back together again I don't they'll ever stop playing until they are dead.

 

And BTW, I'm 43, I have work days where I stand the entire time, but I'm not sitting for anyone at a Rush show. Short people, young people, disabled people, whatever, they have got to know what they are in for. People stand at rock shows. That's a simple fact.

[hughes&kettner]

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 18 2010, 10:49 PM)

QUOTE (Hemispheres89 @ Jul 18 2010, 10:39 PM) I'm not necessarily extremely skilled or proficient on guitar by any stretch of the imagination, but to say Kirk Hammet sucks is surely baffling. I'm not either -- not by a damned sight -- which is why I deleted the message.   I sounded like a pretentious wanker and the fact is that Kirk would mop the floor with me eleventy billion times out of eleventy billion times. kirk is not the only one...this 4 year old i heard playing at guitar center last month- he'd do the same to you.

[bigman208]

QUOTE (xredsectorx @ Jul 18 2010, 07:51 PM)

QUOTE (bigman208 @ Jul 18 2010, 07:27 PM) I was sitting in section 322, row 5. I was impressed with the seats. Even though we were high up, we were pretty close to the stage and saw everything. I LOVED the lighting rig this time out!!! Very cool!!   I was in the same row!!! Seat 9 I was pretty much right beside you then since I was in seat 4!!!

[Todem]

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 18 2010, 08:30 PM)

Led Zeppelin didn't last 40 years because one of the members died. And they had the class and good sense to end it there. The Beatles lasted less than 10 years as a recording act. Is their legacy less than Rush's? No way. Longevity is a noteworthy thing, especially with the same members. But Zeppelin aren't getting credit for 40 years (whatever that means). The reason they remain popular and revered is because their music still resonates 30 years after their final record. They are part of the elite like The Beatles, The Stones and Pink Floyd. They made albums -- and in the case of those bands, several in a row -- that tens of millions of people bought and were influenced by. I think Rush is a great band and they are my favorite band whose music reaches me in a way that no other band does, but they aren't in that class. I'm just being objective.

They may not be in that class in the mainstreams eyes and ears.

 

But in mine they are for sure. They have just as much talent, and great music as Led Zep, Floyd, The Beatles. But what makes them so unique is they don't talk to everbody in the musical sense.

 

It's what makes Rush so special to us. It's our secret clubhouse.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Todem

[Todem]

QUOTE (Snyder80 @ Jul 18 2010, 09:01 PM)

LZ are legends without question but I find most of what they did very ordinary.  From a popularity stand point they have surpassed Rush in every way imaginable.  From a musical prowess stand point I don't think they could touch them.  Very few people realize just how ignored this band was at one point.  My father saw them at The Forum in Harrisburg when they did their Fly by Night tour and he said you NEVER heard Rush on the radio.  The only people that knew about them were the people who bought their records.  Nothing LZ has ever done can come close musically to things like La Villa Strangiato, Xanadu, 2112, etc.  Do I respect that band and their place in history? Absolutely.  But I find that band more on the t-shirts worn by high school students than I do anywhere else and that sits very bad with me.  Anymore that band is nothing more than a pop culture icon.  Not to mention the fact that their best band member by far died way before his time.  I also think that the fact that Rush only has three band members should be taken into serious account when people try to compare them to other acts.  I mean do you really think Robert Plant could do what Geddy Lee does???  And as much as I respect Jimmy Page I could list at least a dozen guitar players who could blow him out of the water, both technically and in his writing.  Lifeson is definitely one of them.  I never heard Page do anything that rivals the solo on La Villa or Freewill.  Lifeson is without question the most underrated guitar player in history.  Still to this day I hear people say how he isn't as fast as Zakk Wylde and I'll have to walk away from the conversation because even mentioning the name Zakk Wylde in the same sentence with Alex Lifeson is on a level of blasphemy that I find ridiculously offensive.

Whoa.....hold on there.

 

Guitarist here. And I am not getting on my high horse and such. But I do play, I play well and I respect a lot of guitarists out there. Alex Lifeson was the spark that lit my fire to play music. La Villa Strangiato on Exit Stage left left such an impact on me...I can't explain it any better than Kirk Hammet did in BTLS.

 

With that said. My guitar playing went to another level after I was introduced to Jimmy Page in 1990. Yeah I had heard plenty of Led Zeppelin on the radio before. But my drummer who was a huge Bonzo fan and Led Zep fan introduced me to the deep album stuff. I got him into Rush...it was pretty cool. Anyway Jimmy Page is a master of layering in the studio. He has recorded some brilliant guitar work and has written some of the greatest guitar riffs known to hard rock music. His approach in blending the acoustic, 12 string, and blues slide is legendary in the genre.

 

Ten Years Gone

In My Time of Dying

The Rain Song

How Many More Times

Achilles Last Stand

In The Light

 

 

I could go on and on. But Physical Grafitti may have some of the best hard rock guitar playing I have ever heard.

 

Jimmy's approach is quite different than Alex's and I really could not compare the 2 at all.

 

But to flat out dismiss Jimmy Page's importance to hard rock guitar playing is ignorant.

 

I love Alex...he is my favorite guitarist no doubt. But he does not blow away Jimmy Page. And I think he would agree and probably laugh his ass off at that notion.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Todem

[moedrabowsky]

I think Physical Graffiti is the epitome of the genre, the very best hard rock album ever produced.

 

Just my humble opinion.

[Todem]

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 19 2010, 10:41 AM)

I think Physical Graffiti is the epitome of the genre, the very best hard rock album ever produced. Just my humble opinion.

Yep right there with you. I would add Permanent Waves to that mix and we have a winning perfecta.

 

Those 2 albums had the biggest impact on my life in a musical sense.

[EmotionDetector]

Since there is "spoilers" written in the title, I will add this:

 

The 'bridge' section in Freewill continues to blow me away. On Saturday night, I had unbelivable chills during that part...amazing!!!

 

I could listen to that over and over again...f'n unbelivable. Geddy was "on" all night as well...amazing bass work!

[moedrabowsky]

QUOTE (Todem @ Jul 19 2010, 10:43 AM)

QUOTE (moedrabowsky @ Jul 19 2010, 10:41 AM) I think Physical Graffiti is the epitome of the genre, the very best hard rock album ever produced. Just my humble opinion. Yep right there with you. I would add Permanent Waves to that mix and we have a winning perfecta.   Those 2 albums had the biggest impact on my life in a musical sense. Me, too. Without question.   Permanent Waves features Alex's most dynamic playing, to my ears. I'm not an accomplished guitar player, but I'm okay. It's my favorite Rush album.   One other album that sparked me was Sabotage by Black Sabbath. Page, Lifeson and Iommi are the three players that influenced me the most.