Metallica gets into...

[NeilPeartFan2112]

I'm fairly certain it was what you consider their "good albums" (pre Load) that got them into the Rock Hall in the first place, so I don't really see where you're going with this argument. Their influence on metal is arguably unmatched to this day. Also, Master of Puppets is considered by many to be the greatest metal album of all time. No reason Metallica should not be in the Rock Hall.

 

Oh, and if making crappy albums is what it takes to get into the hall, then Yes should have a one way ticket. They made some really, really shitty albums after Relayer.

[baxtrice]

QUOTE (metaldad @ Apr 6 2009, 02:09 PM)

it should be re-named THE MUSIC HALL OF FAME that way when they let rap and dance music in no one will care . let us not forget, it is run by those clueless a-holes at rolling stone

What he said ^

[Tick]

QUOTE (NeilPeartFan2112 @ Apr 6 2009, 05:34 PM)

I'm fairly certain it was what you consider their "good albums" (pre Load) that got them into the Rock Hall in the first place, so I don't really see where you're going with this argument. Their influence on metal is arguably unmatched to this day. Also, Master of Puppets is considered by many to be the greatest metal album of all time. No reason Metallica should not be in the Rock Hall. Oh, and if making crappy albums is what it takes to get into the hall, then Yes should have a one way ticket. They made some really, really shitty albums after Relayer.

Your 100% wrong !

Its not there early albums that got them in the hall of fame. That alone would not have done it. At least not this soon.

Its all about the pop icon status they delevoped over the past 15 years. They became commercialized metal fashion. They became Mtv darlings. Performing on almost every award show. Also, always sitting front row at Mtv events. Making themselves totally commercial is what got them in. Had they had continued making great albums, but did not whore themselves out for every camera in sight, I'd be willing to bet they are not in this soon.

Think about it, they even made a reality style movie. Now a commercial with college basketball coaches. They became another Ozzy Osbourne story. Over exposed till the mainstream found them cool and there brand of metal acceptable.

Kiss, Rush, Yes, Kansas, Jethro Tull, Styx, Journey, just to name a few are not in.

Why ? Because they did not become cartoon characters, who attention whored there way in.

Edited April 6, 2009 by tick

[Xanadoood]

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 06:24 PM)

QUOTE (NeilPeartFan2112 @ Apr 6 2009, 05:34 PM) I'm fairly certain it was what you consider their "good albums" (pre Load) that got them into the Rock Hall in the first place, so I don't really see where you're going with this argument. Their influence on metal is arguably unmatched to this day. Also, Master of Puppets is considered by many to be the greatest metal album of all time. No reason Metallica should not be in the Rock Hall. Oh, and if making crappy albums is what it takes to get into the hall, then Yes should have a one way ticket. They made some really, really shitty albums after Relayer. Your 100% wrong ! Its not there early albums that got them in the hall of fame. That alone would not have done it. At least not this soon. Its all about the pop icon status they delevoped over the past 15 years. They became commercialized metal fashion. They became Mtv darlings. Performing on almost every award show. Also, always sitting front row at Mtv events. Making themselves totally commercial is what got them in. Had they had continued making great albums, but did not whore themselves out for every camera in sight, I'd be willing to bet they are not in this soon. Think about it, they even made a reality style movie. Now a commercial with college basketball coaches. They became another Ozzy Osbourne story. Over exposed till the mainstream found them cool and there brand of metal acceptable. Kiss, Rush, Yes, Kansas, Jethro Tull, Styx, Journey, just to name a few are not in. Why ? Because they did not become cartoon characters, who attention whored there way in. I have to agree with you on this one tick.   i was originally thinking it was because of there 80s output, but thinking back, the mainstream HATED thrash back in the day.   lets use Slayer as an example. they , as much as Metallica, pretty much invented that style of music. but you will NEVER see them on stage at an award show, wearing desighner suits and shit.   Slayer, Celtic Frost, Anthrax, Megedeth( for the most part), Testament.. have NEVER sold out the way ' tallica did, and thats why you wont ever see them anywhere near these events.

[WCFIELDS]

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 05:24 PM)

QUOTE (NeilPeartFan2112 @ Apr 6 2009, 05:34 PM) I'm fairly certain it was what you consider their "good albums" (pre Load) that got them into the Rock Hall in the first place, so I don't really see where you're going with this argument. Their influence on metal is arguably unmatched to this day. Also, Master of Puppets is considered by many to be the greatest metal album of all time. No reason Metallica should not be in the Rock Hall. Oh, and if making crappy albums is what it takes to get into the hall, then Yes should have a one way ticket. They made some really, really shitty albums after Relayer.   Kiss, Rush, Yes, Kansas, Jethro Tull, Styx, Journey, just to name a few are not in. Why ? Because they did not become cartoon characters, who attention whored there way in. "attention whored their way in"........     Dude, they are one of the most important Metal bands of ALL TIME. That is a fact.......

[kazzman]

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 12:18 PM)

QUOTE (kazzman @ Apr 6 2009, 01:05 PM) Why do people call the RnRHOF a pile of crap Read the list of its enductees. Nuff said. Ok, fine. I'll play devil's advocate here with this one...   http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/alphabetical-list/   Its pile of crap, huh? Sure, there's a few of the artists in here that I don't agree with myself, but regardless of your musical "alliances" here, most of those people do deserve to be in the HOF. Why? Again, not because of their popularity, but because of their influence over the genre. Look at AC/DC,. Not the most technically proficient band out there, but they had a formula and stuck with it. It sold them millions of albums and they've influence thousands of other bands over the course of time. They didn't make a reality TV Show or reality style movie. They never became pop icons or cartoon characters. Yet they got in. The Beatles did all of that (except the reality TV show of course). Do they deserve to be in there? Absolutely.   QUOTE When a band like Rush in on the outside looking in, but some old blind black blues artist who played the washboard is in, its a joke, and a travesty, and deserves to be mocked on a daily basis.   And this said while failing to realize that without this "blind black blues artist who played a washboard," then you wouldn't have rock n' roll. Period.   Now, to those who complain about the HOF, I want you to sit there and think about this for a long time. If bands such as Rush, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Styx, and Kiss get in, will you sit there and still proclaim the HOF a joke and a travesty, or will you finally shut up and stop complaining like a little kid just because you finally got what you wanted?   "It annoys the hell out of me when I have to log onto youtube, myspace, facebook or some internet message board and see some moron going 'well this band sucks.' Don't you people realize that music is art and art is subjective? There is no right or wrong."   Want to know who said that? I'll give you a hint. It's from a drummer who's a member of one of the bands that is currently not in the HOF.

[naturalsciences101]

QUOTE (Rushian King @ Apr 6 2009, 03:25 PM)

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 10:09 AM) ...and totally sell out and make crappy albums for the next 20 years. Ironically I think their 80s output sounds MORE mainstream now than anything they did post Black album and their latest album has just gone back to their more accessible roots. Wha'chu talking 'bout, Willis? There's absolutely nothing that's accessible about the first three tracks on Death Magnetic. Nor, are the tracks eight and nine. Radio wouldn't even dream about playing those tunes. Well, aside from late-night college radio.   Just like radio wouldn't have dreamed about touching anything prior to the Black album during the entire stretch of the 1980's. That schitt scared the bejezus out of DJs back in the day.   And, radio on a whole has changed dramatically since back during Metallica's heyday. It's more open to heavy music then it was back then. But, still, not open at all to innovation in the least. On the other hand, virtually everything from the Load sessions was deliberately cut for a run on the radio. That whole collection was engineered specifically for Pop culture success. And, it pulled the task off admirably. No small feat, mind you.   No, radio would not play anything from Metallica's first four albums when they were current. That's why TBA was seen as a god-send. Radio was getting so many requests to play something from the band, and they felt that they couldn't play any of it. Way too heavy for the Classic Rock stations or the Pop stations or the this-and-that stations (A totally new radio format was right around the corner though). Then, along came Black, and suddenly there were three of four songs that the DJs felt wouldn't scare the bejezus out of the listeners.   Metallica noticed what got them airplay during TBA run, and just emulated that during the LOAD era. They took the radio-friendly elements of Black and just expanded on that. Hey, it takes much talent to write songs that radio will play. I acknowledge that. Loads of talent. It's just not the type of talent that I'm interested in hearing about in the least.   I do feel that Metallica has lost a significant part of their melodic side though. It's very apparent actually. They couldn't assemble a 'Load' collection now if their career depended on it. St. Anger was just an all-around disaster. Nothing about that effort is redeemable. Well, some of the instrumental sections are good. But, the production just out-and-out killed it. The vocal lines and lyrics were lumped atop that awful mess, almost as a total after-thought. The whole thing sounds - 'cut and paste' Which, of course, if you watch 'Some Kind Of Monster', it totally was.   With Death Magnetic, the instrumental prowess of the band is back in full e-mutha-fluckin-ffiz-ect. The structuring of the tunes are tight, son. Big ups to Rick Rubin for his job here. The group sounds heavy, but nothing about them sounds contrived, like they did on the last effort. Half of the material is really good, with a track or two more being pretty good. I've opened up somewhat to the more accesible radio tracks like The Day That Never Comes, Cyanide and My Apocalypse. I say 'more accessible', which shows ya just how much radio has changed.   What's an absolute joke is the track - Unforgiven III. The fact that they could NOT come up with a worthy, slow-tempo, melodic song apart from something they've already done already is quite telling...quite disheartening too. It means that the melodic side of the band is damaged. I had to listen to this song three or four times to really believe what I was hearing. The tune is really absolutely awful. It is the one glaring turd in this 'good' collection.

[Stormtron]

Metallica are attention whores, but Kiss aren't? I don't get that one.

[Mustard Death]

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 11:03 AM)

QUOTE (PuppetKing2112 @ Apr 6 2009, 10:59 AM)   Go away please. I kept saying that to this thread, but nothing happened.

[Rushian King]

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ Apr 6 2009, 09:40 PM)

QUOTE (Rushian King @ Apr 6 2009, 03:25 PM) QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 10:09 AM) ...and totally sell out and make crappy albums for the next 20 years. Ironically I think their 80s output sounds MORE mainstream now than anything they did post Black album and their latest album has just gone back to their more accessible roots. Wha'chu talking 'bout, Willis? There's absolutely nothing that's accessible about the first three tracks on Death Magnetic. Nor, are the tracks eight and nine. Radio wouldn't even dream about playing those tunes. Well, aside from late-night college radio.   Just like radio wouldn't have dreamed about touching anything prior to the Black album during the entire stretch of the 1980's. That schitt scared the bejezus out of DJs back in the day.   And, radio on a whole has changed dramatically since back during Metallica's heyday. It's more open to heavy music then it was back then. But, still, not open at all to innovation in the least. On the other hand, virtually everything from the Load sessions was deliberately cut for a run on the radio. That whole collection was engineered specifically for Pop culture success. And, it pulled the task off admirably. No small feat, mind you.   No, radio would not play anything from Metallica's first four albums when they were current. That's why TBA was seen as a god-send. Radio was getting so many requests to play something from the band, and they felt that they couldn't play any of it. Way too heavy for the Classic Rock stations or the Pop stations or the this-and-that stations (A totally new radio format was right around the corner though). Then, along came Black, and suddenly there were three of four songs that the DJs felt wouldn't scare the bejezus out of the listeners.   Metallica noticed what got them airplay during TBA run, and just emulated that during the LOAD era. They took the radio-friendly elements of Black and just expanded on that. Hey, it takes much talent to write songs that radio will play. I acknowledge that. Loads of talent. It's just not the type of talent that I'm interested in hearing about in the least.   I do feel that Metallica has lost a significant part of their melodic side though. It's very apparent actually. They couldn't assemble a 'Load' collection now if their career depended on it. St. Anger was just an all-around disaster. Nothing about that effort is redeemable. Well, some of the instrumental sections are good. But, the production just out-and-out killed it. The vocal lines and lyrics were lumped atop that awful mess, almost as a total after-thought. The whole thing sounds - 'cut and paste' Which, of course, if you watch 'Some Kind Of Monster', it totally was.   With Death Magnetic, the instrumental prowess of the band is back in full e-mutha-fluckin-ffiz-ect. The structuring of the tunes are tight, son. Big ups to Rick Rubin for his job here. The group sounds heavy, but nothing about them sounds contrived, like they did on the last effort. Half of the material is really good, with a track or two more being pretty good. I've opened up somewhat to the more accesible radio tracks like The Day That Never Comes, Cyanide and My Apocalypse. I say 'more accessible', which shows ya just how much radio has changed.   What's an absolute joke is the track - Unforgiven III. The fact that they could NOT come up with a worthy, slow-tempo, melodic song apart from something they've already done already is quite telling...quite disheartening too. It means that the melodic side of the band is damaged. I had to listen to this song three or four times to really believe what I was hearing. The tune is really absolutely awful. It is the one glaring turd in this 'good' collection. I don't recall local radio playing any new Metallica music after the Black album until Death Magnetic. This implies to me that their new album can be considered more mainstream than anything since Load.

[Tick]

QUOTE (WCFIELDS @ Apr 6 2009, 08:16 PM)

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 05:24 PM) QUOTE (NeilPeartFan2112 @ Apr 6 2009, 05:34 PM) I'm fairly certain it was what you consider their "good albums" (pre Load) that got them into the Rock Hall in the first place, so I don't really see where you're going with this argument. Their influence on metal is arguably unmatched to this day. Also, Master of Puppets is considered by many to be the greatest metal album of all time. No reason Metallica should not be in the Rock Hall. Oh, and if making crappy albums is what it takes to get into the hall, then Yes should have a one way ticket. They made some really, really shitty albums after Relayer.   Kiss, Rush, Yes, Kansas, Jethro Tull, Styx, Journey, just to name a few are not in. Why ? Because they did not become cartoon characters, who attention whored there way in. "attention whored their way in"........     Dude, they are one of the most important Metal bands of ALL TIME. That is a fact....... Yeah so ? Who gives a shit, thats not why they are where they are, and you know it. Read my last post. It makes perfect sense.   Examine what your saying for a minute and think hard...   The "rock and roll hall of fame" just inducted Metallica.... Say it again. Now say it again. Meditate on it. Now read my last post again.   Your trying to give credit to a joke museum for getting something right ?   Meditate on that. Its bullshit if you think the reason they put them in is because there astute enough to recognize the brilliance of such an important act. You know its bullshit ! The same jackasses who have Ricky Nelson in, and Rush on the outs. Yup, thats credible ?       Is it a little clearer now.

[Tick]

QUOTE (Mustard Death @ Apr 6 2009, 09:50 PM)

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 11:03 AM) QUOTE (PuppetKing2112 @ Apr 6 2009, 10:59 AM)   Go away please. I kept saying that to this thread, but nothing happened. You two should get a room.

[ReRushed]

Metallica had a tremendous hand in defining an entire genre within Rock and Roll. Maybe that's why they're in, correct?

[PuppetKing2112]

The single reason why I want Rush to get in: so there won't be threads like this anymore.

[ReRushed]

QUOTE (PuppetKing2112 @ Apr 6 2009, 11:11 PM)

The single reason why I want Rush to get in: so there won't be threads like this anymore.

[Tick]

QUOTE (PuppetKing2112 @ Apr 6 2009, 11:11 PM)

The single reason why I want Rush to get in: so there won't be threads like this anymore.

It will still mean nothing. The hall will always be a bunch of Rolling Stone magazine dick smokers, and everyone knows it.

The building should imploded. and we should all forget it ever happened.

 

Oh, and Pete Rose will probably get in the rock and roll hall of fame before Rush will.

[Tick]

QUOTE (Paulio91184 @ Apr 6 2009, 04:31 PM)

Kedus to James

 

 

 

 

[Mustard Death]

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 11:06 PM)

The same jackasses who have Ricky Nelson in, and Rush on the outs.

This entire thread is pointless because of that. We all know that if Rush were to be brought in, it would no longer be the Rock and Roll Hall of Crap, Shit, Balls, Lame, Idiots, whatever... and forever be known as the Rock and Roll Hall of Holy f***ing Awesome Grails.

 

Quit your complaining and enjoy your music. Who cares what awards they win, which billboards their faces are on, how unselloutariffic and perfect they are and have been, etc... The whole jealousy aspect of these RnR Hall threads has been old since the first one.

[PuppetKing2112]

QUOTE (Mustard Death @ Apr 6 2009, 07:31 PM)

QUOTE (tick @ Apr 6 2009, 11:06 PM) The same jackasses who have Ricky Nelson in, and Rush on the outs. This entire thread is pointless because of that. We all know that if Rush were to be brought in, it would no longer be the Rock and Roll Hall of Crap, Shit, Balls, Lame, Idiots, whatever... and forever be known as the Rock and Roll Hall of Holy f***ing Awesome Grails.   Quit your complaining and enjoy your music. Who cares what awards they win, which billboards their faces are on, how unselloutariffic and perfect they are and have been, etc... The whole jealousy aspect of these RnR Hall threads has been old since the first one. Pretty much, yeah. I don't need Rush to be in the hall for me to appreciate them, but if they do eventually get in, great.

[Xanadu93]

QUOTE (PuppetKing2112 @ Apr 6 2009, 11:11 PM)

The single reason why I want Rush to get in: so there won't be threads like this anymore.

Possible post of the year?

 

 

 

 

but seriously.....

[naturalsciences101]

QUOTE (Rushian King @ Apr 6 2009, 09:48 PM)

I don't recall local radio playing any new Metallica music after the Black album until Death Magnetic. This implies to me that their new album can be considered more mainstream than anything since Load.

s'What? I live in a major-market area. Long Isand really. But I get all the NYC stations, loud and clear. Don't listen to any of 'em anymore, but I did during the BIG 90's. And, that was Metallica's big decade on the radio.

 

They had four! really big albums during this one decade, and radio bled them all dry...right down to the last drop. There was Black, the two LOADs and the double-album Garage Days. As well as a few singles here and there. All which got plenty of rotation. I got so sick of the band during this era. The one good thing is that their music opened the airwaves for other Metal bands. New releases from Anthrax, Medadeth, Pantera and a few others got some airplay due to Metallica's popularity.

 

In contrast to the four 90's discs, the four albums from the previous decade, the 80's, got zilch! zero airplay on mainstream radio when they were released. Only late-night college radio had the berlz to play any Heavy Metal at all. Over by me, Hofstra University had, and still does I believe, have an awesome Saturday morning and then Saturday night Metal broadcast.

 

Wowzer. I actually really did not think it was this many tunes. But I thought of all the Metallica tracks that got some decent airplay upon release, and these are them. 21 songs in a single decade! The only band that probably even came close was Creed. I might have even forgot one or two. The Metallica songs that got airplay as new releases are as follows:

 

Enter Sandman

Sad But True

The Unforgiven

Wherever I May Roam

Nothing Else Matters

For Whom The Bell Tolls - Live Sh*t: Binge and Purge

Until It Sleeps

Ain't My Bitch

2 X 4

King Nothing

Hero of the Day

Bleeding Me

Mama Said

The Memory Remains

Fuel

The Unforgiven II

Better Than You

Turn The Page

Whisky in the Jar

No Leaf Clover - - S & M

I Disapear - - M: I : 2

 

 

[PuppetKing2112]

You're acting like today, at this point, Metallica's classic '80s albums don't get any kind of recognition. Obviously songs from the '90s and '00s are going to get some airplay when they're new releases from established bands like Metallica. Hell, if we want to use a Rush example, "Sweet Miracle" got a reasonable amount of airplay on classic rock stations when Vapor Trails was new in 2002. But just because it got the obligatory "new single" airplay doesn't mean anybody considers it "one of Rush's radio hits." So that's kind of a pointless thing to point to. Metallica didn't get airplay in the '80s because thrash metal wasn't the kind of thing that got played on the radio.

 

Back when I used to listen to the radio (which I admittedly haven't done in a year or two) I heard "Sanitarium," "And Justice," and "Fade to Black" (among several other '80s other '80s songs) FAR more than "Until it Sleeps," "King Nothing," "Bleeding Me," "Mama Says," and "Better Than You" combined, just to pull a few random names off that list. I'd actually argue that the massive worldwide success of the Black album had the positive effect of drawing attention to the older albums. Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets are "classic rock" now. When was the last time you heard a Metallica song on a Top 40 station? These days, any station that's going to play Metallica's new stuff (classic rock stations and "hard rock"/"active rock" formats) are still going to give a huge majority of their Metallica time to their '83-'91 material.

[naturalsciences101]

But, that's not what Rushian King was stating in both his/her posts. The poster had stated that he/she did not believe that Metallica received any mainstream airplay during the 90's. And, that's the only point which I refuted in the above post.

 

I don't know if Rushian King was too young to really remember this timeframe, or hadn't been listening to the radio much during this era, but the statement couldn't be further from the truth. The Black Album and both Load recordings, along with the 'covers' album provides for ALL of Metallica's Pop-oriented music and singles airplay...And like TICK states, has MUCH TO DO with the band gaining inclusion in the RNR HOF.

 

The 90's was THE period where the band received ALL of its mainstream exposure. AND, we can look at just how ridiculous all this radio-business really is, because of what you've just pointed out in your last post about the classic catalog and its relation to mainstream radio. Firstly, it's true that Metallica received a ton of airplay for a ton of its current singles in the 90's, whereas mainstream radio DID NOT CARE TO TOUCH even a single Metallica song during the entire decade of the 80's. At least, not in the largest market in America, that being NY.

 

But, it is also true what you cited in your last post about most of these songs being all but forgotten in favor of the 'classics' from the 1980's....Now, how frakkin' cock-eyed crazy is this scenario? Right? The band gets no mainstream radio support during the entire decade of the 80's. The opposite is true for the 90's. The band receives so much exposure, as to call it over-exposure during this timeframe.

 

Now, in the 00's, radio plays Metallica, but mostly plays the bulk of their 80's classic catalog. They choose to play the stuff that they wouldn't touch back during its initial run in the 80's. And they choose it over the stuff that they gave a ton of support to during the 90's...Go figure. You can't figure, 'cause it makes no sense, man.

 

This, amongst a thousand other factors, is why I haven't listened to FM radio in close to ten years now. No exaggeration. I listened to radio literally twice in the last ten years, and both occasions were home-improvement projects where I only had access to a radio without a disc player. Mainstream radio is ridiculously frustrating for anyone with any discernable taste in music. Classic Rock radio is literally playing the same roster of tunes over and over again since way back when I was in Jr. High School. Unacceptable.

 

 

[PuppetKing2112]

But do you think that if the Black album had been Metallica's debut, and their career from that point forward played out exactly as it has from 1991 on, same sales, same MTV regularity, same Napster controversy, same everything, but their first four albums never existed, Metallica would ever have a shot at getting into the Hall? Hell no. They may have covered most of the "pop icons and pop culture figures" part of the equation in the '90s, but as far as the "influence and musical impact" factor, when was the last time you heard a band list Load and Reload as an inspiration? Edited April 7, 2009 by PuppetKing2112

[naturalsciences101]

No, definitely not. Their popularity in the 90's was entirely dependent upon the foundation laid down by them during the 80's. Theirs is a fan base and a momentum that had been building slow and steady steam for a long, long time before it finally appeared on the public's radar.

 

But, those two Load albums are definitely an inspiration to many of the crappy bands that are around today. I don't know their names, but my cousin's kid has played some of this stuff on his computer and it all sounds like it is direct descendant of the two Load albums. Crappo begets more crap.

 

Even a close friend of mine has a band that he still writes music for and still plays out with on occasion. Well, actually the songs have been sitting around for quite some time now. The guy is no kid either...but the songs sound like a cross between the Load albums and the Creed albums. Real Pop drivel. And, I'm sure that a bunch of younger morons who only know these Pop-Rock albums have gone and written a smattering of songs which have used 90's Metallica and Creed as the template. Some writers are no more than the sum of their influences.