Relayer2112 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I just recently purchased "Wandering the Face of the Earth" and was a little disappointed about the little bit mentioned regarding the departure of John Rutsey. I haven't read the whole book yet, but assume that the topic isn't brought up again after the '74 tour. The book goes as far as getting more into detail about some of the other early members and why they left, but not a whole lot about John. Is the consensus around here that he was fired or left voluntarily? My gut feeling is that he was fired based on some documentaries I've seen but, for the most part, it appears that the tale of his departure has been sugarcoated ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) Different versions of the story over the years. I don't think we'll ever know for sure. John's not here to talk about it, he never/rarely did all the years after. Ged and Al I don't think will ever go near the topic ever again. At least not publicly. I'll just go on record (again) to say that I'm a John fan, and think he should have gotten more recognition at the RRHOF. Someone just posted on one of Ian's FB threads last night that it was John who got the band believing in themselves. I can believe that with John being the 'frontman' for a long time. Edited June 22, 2020 by grep 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I think one or more members of the band and the management didn't feel he was well enough health wise to go on tour, John possibly being among them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relayer2112 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 There was a documentary, not sure which one, in which someone close to the band states "regardless of what you've heard, John was fired". If that's the case, I'm not sure what the big deal is about hiding it. I certainly doubt that it would be related for royalties on "Fly By Night" since I assume he helped write some of those songs, but you never know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relayer2112 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) Different versions of the story over the years. I don't think we'll ever know for sure. John's not here to talk about it, he never/rarely did all the years after. Ged and Al I don't think will ever go near the topic ever again. At least not publicly. I'll just go on record (again) to say that I'm a John fan, and think he should have gotten more recognition at the RRHOF. Someone just posted on one of Ian's FB threads last night that it was John who got the band believing in themselves. I can believe that with John being the 'frontman' for a long time. John was certainly a competent drummer for their early stage. I hope that the RRHOF snub was accidental. I also, think he deserved at least a shout out. Edited June 22, 2020 by Relayer2112 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_hi_water._ Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 it's like David Lee Roth leaving Van Halen back in '85, there's stories that he was fired, or he just decided to leave himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken hawk Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I didnt know Rush had other members before John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entre_Perpetuo Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I didnt know Rush had other members before John. It always kind of revolved around Alex and Geddy, though at one point Ray did fire Geddy....unless you ask Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RushFanForever Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I don't see any drummers citing John Rutsey as an influence, as much as Neil Peart. I'm surprised that Rutsey gets brought up so much despite only appearing on the debut RUSH album. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relayer2112 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 I didnt know Rush had other members before John. It always kind of revolved around Alex and Geddy, though at one point Ray did fire Geddy....unless you ask Ray. The book mentions that they were looking for a better front man than Geddy at one point. It's funny, but I don't think that Geddy ever turned out to be anything other than a way below average front man. So, basically, they never solved that issue. It just turned out that they didn't need a great front man as the music took over. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RushFanForever Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) I didnt know Rush had other members before John. Here's the Rush family tree chart that's included in the 2014 Rush: Rediscovered box set. Edited June 22, 2020 by RushFanForever 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relayer2112 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 I don't see any drummers citing John Rutsey as an influence, as much as Neil Peart. I'm surprised that Rutsey gets brought up so much despite only appearing on the debut RUSH album. I don't think anyone is arguing about who the better drummer is. It's just I'd like to know the true story about my favorite band of all time. He was a part of Rush history and that's why I bring him up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I didnt know Rush had other members before John. It always kind of revolved around Alex and Geddy, though at one point Ray did fire Geddy....unless you ask Ray. Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken hawk Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) Wow Thats so interesting. Thank you RUSHFANFOREVER ! Thank you also too GREP and Relayer 2112 Edited June 22, 2020 by Chicken hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relayer2112 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 I didnt know Rush had other members before John. It always kind of revolved around Alex and Geddy, though at one point Ray did fire Geddy....unless you ask Ray. Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. ..... Wasn't Ray the one who ended up f***ing up Van Halen for a few years around Van Halen III? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangy Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I don't see any drummers citing John Rutsey as an influence, as much as Neil Peart. I'm surprised that Rutsey gets brought up so much despite only appearing on the debut RUSH album. Lol I am surprised you dont have some cool Rutsey trivia to share with us. I love the debut and feel John fit in just fine for that record. Working man is an all time classic and radio staple. I would argue more of a staple than either fly by night or closer to the heart. the next big radio staple was the spirit of radio imo. As to why he left???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 I didnt know Rush had other members before John. It always kind of revolved around Alex and Geddy, though at one point Ray did fire Geddy....unless you ask Ray. Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. ..... Wasn't Ray the one who ended up f***ing up Van Halen for a few years around Van Halen III? I'm not aware of that. It wouldn't surprise me though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST3V Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 https://www.loudersound.com/features/rush-s-early-years-exclusive-interview-with-geddy-lee-alex-lifeson Alex Lifeson: We knew early on that John had problems with his health. He had diabetes, and he was very concerned about whether it would be manageable for him on the road. In 1974, John got ill and missed out a few months of gigs. We used another drummer, Jerry Fielding, and then John came back for a month of club shows. But that was it for John. We had to fire him. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 It just pisses me off that they call it firing. It's not like the guy f***ed up and they had to cut him loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relayer2112 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 It just pisses me off that they call it firing. It's not like the guy f***ed up and they had to cut him loose. In a way...he did f**k up. He evidently wouldn't hold back when it came to the partying, even though he had the health issues. Not surprising, he was in his early 20's and did not yet know that he was "only immortal for a limited time". Would things have been different had he taken care of himself? Possibly. Inevitably though, I'm sure the musical differences would have eventually marked the end for John in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weatherman Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. ..... Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. ..... Please explain. Some thing I read a few years ago...might have been an excerpt of Sammy Hagar's book. He said that Ray was looking to get a 'better singer' for Rush about the time he joined VH. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relayer2112 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Apparently Ray wanted to fire Geddy again in the 80's. ..... Please explain. Some thing I read a few years ago...might have been an excerpt of Sammy Hagar's book. He said that Ray was looking to get a 'better singer' for Rush about the time he joined VH. Ray was probably trying to get David Lee Roth to join Rush :) Can you imagine DLR (in the middle of Tom Sawyer) doing the typical Dave thing and singing "Today's Tom Sawyer, he gets high on you and....I can't remember the f**k'n lyrics" while he's doing a leg kick. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Hey baby it's a quarter to eight, and i'm your ice cream man, stop me when i'm passing by....... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thizzellewashington Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) My guess -- and this is just a guess based on everything we've read, no inside info -- is that management pushed for a change because of John's health, Geddy and Alex signed off on it because of musical differences, and John was disappointed in the short term but inevitably would have been headed that way eventually due to a combination of those two factors. As with most of these things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the different versions that are out there. Edited June 22, 2020 by thizzellewashington 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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