29 replies to this topic

[treeduck]

We need to settle these things once and for all!

Edited by treeduck, 15 January 2021 - 12:47 PM.

[Rick N. Backer]

I really wrestled with part 2.  I actually prefer the Dio era to the Ozzy era of Sabbath.  However, by the slimmest of margins, I have to admit that I prefer Blizzard and Diary to Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules, Dehumanizer and The Devil You Know.  It's probably a mood thing though.

[zepphead]

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

[Nova Carmina]

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

[Turbine Freight]

VH with Roth

Ozzy with Randy

Kiss with Ace

[zepphead]

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

[Turbine Freight]

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

Edited by Turbine Freight, 15 January 2021 - 02:27 PM.

[treeduck]

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

[Rick N. Backer]

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

However, I would say that's their worst of the original 8.  I place it behind Never Say Die!

[Rick N. Backer]

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

[Turbine Freight]

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Let's face it Ozzy-era Sabs was awesome. Any other band would give their right arm for Sabbath's worst album.

[treeduck]

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Yeah I'd say that too. There's some good songs on TE but it's patchy and disjointed with each track seemingly disconnected from the last and the next. And this gives it an outtakes vibe, whereas NSD flows from track to track in a natural way like a good album should.

[Rick N. Backer]

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 03:47 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Let's face it Ozzy-era Sabs was awesome. Any other band would give their right arm for Sabbath's worst album.

Right.  That's just it.  When you're saying, "It's not as good as Paranoid," how big is THAT universe?

[Turbine Freight]

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:49 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 03:47 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Let's face it Ozzy-era Sabs was awesome. Any other band would give their right arm for Sabbath's worst album.

Right.  That's just it.  When you're saying, "It's not as good as Paranoid," how big is THAT universe?

I also think it's worth mentioning that the Dio-era was in no way a dip in quality after Ozzy's tenure. Those 2 records can match any Ozzy Sabs album as far as I'm concerned.

[Rick N. Backer]

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 04:06 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:49 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 03:47 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Let's face it Ozzy-era Sabs was awesome. Any other band would give their right arm for Sabbath's worst album.

Right.  That's just it.  When you're saying, "It's not as good as Paranoid," how big is THAT universe?

I also think it's worth mentioning that the Dio-era was in no way a dip in quality after Ozzy's tenure. Those 2 records can match any Ozzy Sabs album as far as I'm concerned.

As I said, I actually like those 2 better.  Dehumanizer took a little longer for me to appreciate.  The Devil You Know was a pleasant late career release, but it's not on the same level.

[zepphead]

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:48 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Yeah I'd say that too. There's some good songs on TE but it's patchy and disjointed with each track seemingly disconnected from the last and the next. And this gives it an outtakes vibe, whereas NSD flows from track to track in a natural way like a good album should.

There's not much between them in my opinion ..... I just favour TE personally as an attempt at least (albeit with mixed results) to experiment with their sound. But I think by then their star was descending ..... and by 1978 and NSD they were almost spent. It was hard at the time, from 71/72 I was just waiting for each release with anticipation. I knew however after about 2 listens of TE that things were coming to an end. NSD did nothing to change that feeling ... in fact it just made it worse.

Edited by zepphead, 15 January 2021 - 04:21 PM.

[Turbine Freight]

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 04:19 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 04:06 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:49 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 03:47 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Let's face it Ozzy-era Sabs was awesome. Any other band would give their right arm for Sabbath's worst album.

Right.  That's just it.  When you're saying, "It's not as good as Paranoid," how big is THAT universe?

I also think it's worth mentioning that the Dio-era was in no way a dip in quality after Ozzy's tenure. Those 2 records can match any Ozzy Sabs album as far as I'm concerned.

As I said, I actually like those 2 better.  Dehumanizer took a little longer for me to appreciate.  The Devil You Know was a pleasant late career release, but it's not on the same level.

Heaven & Hell and Mob Rules kill and that's a fact. As do Blizzard & Diary. That whole era was an embarrassment  of riches.

[zepphead]

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 04:06 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:49 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 03:47 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Let's face it Ozzy-era Sabs was awesome. Any other band would give their right arm for Sabbath's worst album.

Right.  That's just it.  When you're saying, "It's not as good as Paranoid," how big is THAT universe?

I also think it's worth mentioning that the Dio-era was in no way a dip in quality after Ozzy's tenure. Those 2 records can match any Ozzy Sabs album as far as I'm concerned.

Heaven and Hell was fantastic! ..... but a different Sabbath to Ozzy Sabbath ........ not better, not worse .... just different.

[Turbine Freight]

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 04:21 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:48 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Yeah I'd say that too. There's some good songs on TE but it's patchy and disjointed with each track seemingly disconnected from the last and the next. And this gives it an outtakes vibe, whereas NSD flows from track to track in a natural way like a good album should.

There's not much between them in my opinion ..... I just favour TE personally as an attempt at least (albeit with mixed results) to experiment with their sound. But I think by then their star was descending ..... and by 1978 and NSD they were almost spent. It was hard at the time, from 71/72 I was just waiting for each release with anticipation. I knew however after about 2 listens of TE that things were coming to an end. NSD did nothing to change that feeling ... in fact it just made it worse.

Let's not forget the fact that Sabbath were (in some cases) knocking out 2 albums per calendar year in the early 70s!

[zepphead]

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 04:25 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 04:21 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:48 PM, said:

Rick N. Backer, on 15 January 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

treeduck, on 15 January 2021 - 03:33 PM, said:

Turbine Freight, on 15 January 2021 - 02:26 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 02:24 PM, said:

Nova Carmina, on 15 January 2021 - 01:59 PM, said:

zepphead, on 15 January 2021 - 01:49 PM, said:

Option one on each of the three polls will be my choices.

Yeah, I went chalk on all three, too.

Sabbath with Dio was great, but peak-Ozzy Sabbath great? Not for nearly as long. The others were less taxing . . .

The string of albums Sabbath made from 1970 - 1976 were just so strong .... I loved every one of them. Some would have negative views of Technical Ecstasy, and sure, the cracks were starting to show, but I still thought it was a good album.

TE is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it just suffers from the comparison to what came before it in the Sabbath catalogue as you say.

As far as I'm concerned the same goes for Never Say Die. The last two tracks are the only problems I have with it.

I think NSD! is better than Tec Ex.

Yeah I'd say that too. There's some good songs on TE but it's patchy and disjointed with each track seemingly disconnected from the last and the next. And this gives it an outtakes vibe, whereas NSD flows from track to track in a natural way like a good album should.

There's not much between them in my opinion ..... I just favour TE personally as an attempt at least (albeit with mixed results) to experiment with their sound. But I think by then their star was descending ..... and by 1978 and NSD they were almost spent. It was hard at the time, from 71/72 I was just waiting for each release with anticipation. I knew however after about 2 listens of TE that things were coming to an end. NSD did nothing to change that feeling ... in fact it just made it worse.

Let's not forget the fact that Sabbath were (in some cases) knocking out 2 albums per calendar year in the early 70s!

Yeah!!! .... It's weird looking back now .... all the big bands were firing the albums out quickly ..... yet it seemed an age between each release. Bloody hell!!! Sabbath Bloody Sabbath was their 5th album .... and they had only been going 3 years!! It seemed like forever to me then!