Presto-digitation Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 When you think about it, this is their very first full concept album front-to-back, isn't it? Even 2112, Hemispheres, etc. pretty much subsist on a single side-long song and a flip side of mostly unrelated material. I really hadn't considered that before amidst all the "their first concept album since..." talk. I'm really not a fan of their early work, so is this accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 You're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeduck Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 That's the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost In Xanadu Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 02:50 PM) I'm really not a fan of their early work, so is this accurate? I guess it all depends on how one defines "early" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXXB0BXXX Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I'm actually surprised that a hardcore Rush fan doesn't like the early material. You're a rare breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (XXXB0BXXX @ Jun 19 2012, 03:10 PM) I'm actually surprised that a hardcore Rush fan doesn't like the early material. You're a rare breed. I don't hate it by any means, but I consider their first four to be their worst four...(yeah, I'd rather listen to RTB, you read that right). I like Hemispheres a lot, though, so I'm redeemed some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat 3 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Absolutely, I posted this in another thread, but I love that with each listen you piece more and more of the story together. Which is why I'd love to see/hear them play the new album start to finish live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Yes, it is. Other albums had themes, but this is the first album that tells an actual story from start to finish using all of the songs. No other Rush album does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slack jaw gaze Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (XXXB0BXXX @ Jun 19 2012, 03:10 PM) I'm actually surprised that a hardcore Rush fan doesn't like the early material. You're a rare breed. People have a disproportionate fondness for whatever they listened to in their youth, for the same reason my Dad still watches the same 30 hokey western movies ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 19 2012, 03:32 PM) Yes, it is. Other albums had themes, but this is the first album that tells an actual story from start to finish using all of the songs. No other Rush album does that. I think people throw around concept album lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godeater2112 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 04:50 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 19 2012, 03:32 PM) Yes, it is. Other albums had themes, but this is the first album that tells an actual story from start to finish using all of the songs. No other Rush album does that. I think people throw around concept album lightly. Rush would disagree, in the multitude of interviews I have listened to with the boys regarding Clockwork Angel's they have all pretty much said that almost *all* of their albums have a concept and could be considered a concept album. Concept doesn't necessarily mean that one persistent literal thread of lyrics has to tie the whole thing together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly D Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 19 2012, 04:32 PM) Yes, it is. Other albums had themes, but this is the first album that tells an actual story from start to finish using all of the songs. No other Rush album does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (Godeater2112 @ Jun 19 2012, 04:00 PM) QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 04:50 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 19 2012, 03:32 PM) Yes, it is. Other albums had themes, but this is the first album that tells an actual story from start to finish using all of the songs. No other Rush album does that. I think people throw around concept album lightly. Rush would disagree, in the multitude of interviews I have listened to with the boys regarding Clockwork Angel's they have all pretty much said that almost *all* of their albums have a concept and could be considered a concept album. Concept doesn't necessarily mean that one persistent literal thread of lyrics has to tie the whole thing together. That's a good point too. Counterparts is the study of relationships, etc. Very good. I guess CA meets the conventional definition of "concept album". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beherit Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 03:50 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 19 2012, 03:32 PM) Yes, it is. Other albums had themes, but this is the first album that tells an actual story from start to finish using all of the songs. No other Rush album does that. I think people throw around concept album lightly. Not so much "people" as "journalists" and "critics" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBob Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I always thought the power albums of the 80's were concepts. Signals - Technology P/G - Threat of nuclear war or death or something Power Windows - Something about corruption of power Okay maybe these were about themes. So what's the definition of a concept album, or rock opera, or theme album? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (BigBob @ Jun 19 2012, 05:56 PM) I always thought the power albums of the 80's were concepts. Signals - Technology P/G - Threat of nuclear war or death or something Power Windows - Something about corruption of power Okay maybe these were about themes. So what's the definition of a concept album, or rock opera, or theme album? Good question. It's perhaps as ellusive as what defines "heavy metal". Personally when I think CONCEPT, I think of The Wall or Clockwork Angels which follows a linear thing (a life, a person, an experience in some sort of chronology). I'm not sure that those things and a themed album (all the songs touch on ideas of "love", say) are exactly the same kinds of things. I'm not saying I'm right, but that's how I delineate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeddyRulz Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 04:08 PM) Counterparts is the study of relationships, etc. I think the theme of Counterparts is duality. The very title was chosen because Neil liked how "counterparts" had a dual meaning; it means both "the same" and "the opposite." The first track is "Animate," which is about the dual personalities within a single person: his feminine and masculine sides. (Carl Jung called these the animus and the anima, hence the title "Animate.") "Cold Fire"? Does it make sense that something could be both cold and yet on fire? Duality stuff! Etc.... QUOTE Signals - Technology Only in "Countdown." Signals is largely about growing up, leaving your home in the suburbs, joining the rat race in the big city, and then yearning for a return to the simpler life of the suburbs. A whole kind of "story" is told through the songs "Subdivisions," "Analog Kid," and "Digital Man," with "Subdivisions" being a good overview of the entire theme. Other songs on the album have separate messages which don't fit the "suburb" theme, but no Rush album's songs ENTIRELY fit the album's "theme." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxster Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 04:08 PM)QUOTE (Godeater2112 @ Jun 19 2012, 04:00 PM) QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 04:50 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 19 2012, 03:32 PM) Yes, it is. Other albums had themes, but this is the first album that tells an actual story from start to finish using all of the songs. No other Rush album does that. I think people throw around concept album lightly. Rush would disagree, in the multitude of interviews I have listened to with the boys regarding Clockwork Angel's they have all pretty much said that almost *all* of their albums have a concept and could be considered a concept album. Concept doesn't necessarily mean that one persistent literal thread of lyrics has to tie the whole thing together. That's a good point too. Counterparts is the study of relationships, etc. Very good. I guess CA meets the conventional definition of "concept album". Actually, I heard Geddy remark that he thinks of CA more as a rock opera. Like Tommy. Seems like Tommy was a model of sorts for this album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndroidOnTheRun Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I tend to use "rock opera" where possible to describe a dramatic story told through music, in order to avoid the murky definition quandary that is "concept album." And a rock opera -- IMO -- can be something less than a full album long if it's composed of several "songs" and there's a complete story arc. (That would make Lamneth, 2112, and Cygnus/Hemi rock operas, arguably.) That leaves "concept album" open to be a broader term describing thematically unified albums or those with a clearly structured "experience" that may not be narrative. (Yes's TFTO and Sgt. Pepper come to mind as examples, respectively.) In this way, I'd describe Singals through HYF as concept albums (but definitely NOT rock operas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presto-digitation Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 So is The Wall a rock opera and not a concept album? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndroidOnTheRun Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 10:02 PM) So is The Wall a rock opera and not a concept album? Well, first of all, I caution that the way I make the distinction is by no means an accepted scientific standard. (Though it is based on some careful thought and word-nerd considerations.) That said, as I see it, all rock operas are concept albums, but not all concept albums are rock operas... in other words, a rock opera is a specific type of the more broadly defined "concept album" -- does that sound authoritative? I'd say to be a rock opera it has to tell one consistent story (i.e. same story, recurring characters and plot points). In this way, I'd count the Wall, definitely. As a matter of fact, Wall is very similar to CA in that the story is told in a somewhat fractured, episodic style; other albums have a more obvious continuous plotline (see Scenes from a Memory or Lamb Lies Down on B'way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weakly Criminal Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionDetector Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (Godeater2112 @ Jun 19 2012, 05:00 PM) QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 04:50 PM) QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ Jun 19 2012, 03:32 PM) Yes, it is. Other albums had themes, but this is the first album that tells an actual story from start to finish using all of the songs. No other Rush album does that. I think people throw around concept album lightly. Rush would disagree, in the multitude of interviews I have listened to with the boys regarding Clockwork Angel's they have all pretty much said that almost *all* of their albums have a concept and could be considered a concept album. Concept doesn't necessarily mean that one persistent literal thread of lyrics has to tie the whole thing together. I understand that...but I still don't necessarily agree with their viewpoint. To me, those are themes. In RTB, the running theme was taking chances. In PoW, the running theme was power. In CP, the running theme was relationships. In TFE, the running theme was communication. ...etc. To me, when I think 'concept album', I think Operation: Mindcrime. I think The Wall. Those albums use EVERY song to tell ONE story. There is a flow. Think of it this way, if you took every song on RTB or CP and mixed up their order, would it actually change the theme? Nope. It remains the same. If you take CA and mix around all the songs in a different order, then it no longer tells a story...or at least, not one that makes sense. That's the big difference between an album with themes, and a true concept album IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndroidOnTheRun Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troutman Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Jun 19 2012, 12:19 PM)QUOTE (XXXB0BXXX @ Jun 19 2012, 03:10 PM) I'm actually surprised that a hardcore Rush fan doesn't like the early material. You're a rare breed. I don't hate it by any means, but I consider their first four to be their worst four...(yeah, I'd rather listen to RTB, you read that right). I like Hemispheres a lot, though, so I'm redeemed some. To each there own, If it wasn't for ATWAS I wouldn't be posting right now. A band has to start some where. I am just glad I was was born when I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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